OpenAL?!

DocterDee · Aug 3, 2003, 10:32 PM

Has anyone tested the OpenAL Wrapper from Creative with the ne kX Drivers?

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Aug 5, 2003, 08:01 PM

why do you think you need OpenAL? currently, it has no advantages compared to DirectSound 3D
(at least, for PCs)

/E

synic0 · Aug 8, 2003, 04:42 AM

The advantage is that it is a cross-platform API, obviously. DirectX is completely stuck in the hands of Microsoft, and you cannot create an easily portable product using it. One particular product that has used OpenAL is UT2K3.

Personally I think that OpenAL is a great way to go because it is vendor neutral and you can do acceleration of occlusion, etc without using EAX, A3D, or DirectSound3D and being beholden to a particular company's whims.

If it weren't for open standards, we wouldn't have the Internet afterall... (no TCP/IP)

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Aug 8, 2003, 10:35 PM

>> cross-platform API, obviously

you need this advantage? what for? are you are software programmer? a game developer?..
why then?

OpenAL is very similar to DirectSound 3D (there are no substantial differences between these APIs)

>> it is vendor neutral

do you know who's the author of OpenAL?

do you know any implementation of OpenAL engine, except by Creative Labs for their Live-for-Mac card?..
(well, there's a linux version... abandoned long time ago)

>> being beholden to a particular company's whims

just open www.openal.org to check what company you will belong to
also, browse the sources and check their dates...

----

cross-platform assumes any other platforms... currently, there's no good openAl implementation for any non-Windows OS. moreover, Windows version is just a sub-layer which translates the calls to DirectSound 3D
everyone can download the openal32.dll from Creative which performs such translation and adds OpenAL support for any DirectSound 3-D aware card

/Eugene

Soeren_B · Aug 9, 2003, 08:40 AM

Yeah! Despite that its name reminds very much about openGL which indeed is a powerfull cross platform API I fail to see why one should care about openAL ATM.

I seems only as a weak attempt to make something else than DirectSound3D, but as there is little or close to no development or support for other platforms than Windows it will not succeed (IMO). (Though I will admit that it will make programming somewhat easier if the API is as easy to use as openGL compared to DirectX3D

)

Cheers
Soeren

synic0 · Aug 9, 2003, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eugene Gavrilov
>> cross-platform API, obviously

you need this advantage? what for? are you are software programmer? a game developer?..
why then?

OpenAL is very similar to DirectSound 3D (there are no substantial differences between these APIs)

>> it is vendor neutral

do you know who's the author of OpenAL?
do you know any implementation of OpenAL engine, except by Creative Labs for their Live-for-Mac card?..
(well, there's a linux version... abandoned long time ago)

>> being beholden to a particular company's whims

just open www.openal.org to check what company you will belong to
also, browse the sources and check their dates...

----

cross-platform assumes any other platforms... currently, there's no good openAl implementation for any non-Windows OS. moreover, Windows version is just a sub-layer which translates the calls to DirectSound 3D
everyone can download the openal32.dll from Creative which performs such translation and adds OpenAL support for any DirectSound 3-D aware card

/Eugene

Yes, I am a both a software developer AND a game developer, so I find the qualities of free and open attractive. The fact that both NVidia and Creative have both made SDK's for it seemed to suggest that it was an open standard, but please correct me if I have been bamboozled.

The point of the matter is that Linux didn't have a free and opensource OpenGL implementation worth a sneeze until about five years ago (Mesa project) and that wasn't even hardware accelerated on a majority of cards because of lack of driver support from the hardware companies. Eventually this situation changed as open-source, reverse-engineered drivers matured and some companies got a clue and released drivers for their products (philosophical differences aside). Similarly, OpenAL I think could be in a similar situation. Companies are thinking, "why should i support this standard," and programmers aren't currently making a free (as in speech) implementation for non-Windows OS's (although this could change in the future with drumming up a project on source-forge and getting a few competent lead programmers). The thing is, the possibility exists and I would think it's a far more worthy cause than wasting time and effort on DirectSound 3D. I mean, if hardware developers are all still busy making their own vendor API's (like EAX 3.0, etc) then why is DSound3D so hot anyway? Does it not support extensions, ala OpenGL ?

Anyway, just my two cents... You guys have likely been paying attention to this stuff longer than I have, but I just had (mis?)understood that OpenAL was actually a committee arbitrated API like OpenGL and could offer things that Microsoft only API's could not (like viability on any non-MS platform)... if this is not the case, please tell me so...

Oh, and your last comment,... there is a Macintosh OS implementation, so is that no good? MacOS is definitely non-MS...

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Aug 11, 2003, 02:16 AM

>> The fact that both NVidia and Creative have both made SDK's for it seemed to suggest that it was an open standard

both DirectSound 3D and OpenAL are 'open' standards (their SDKs and specification are available) -- compare it to EAX3.0 (which is 'closed' standard -- you cannot use it without an NDA -- but you can use EAX2/EAX1)
the OpenAL is cross-platform, while DirectSound 3D isn't -- that's the only difference

btw, you won't find any source code for OpenAL implementation except rather simple one for Linux...
Creative / NVidia have never released their 'native' source code, just software emulations (which lack a lot of features) or the versions that represent simple DirectSound3D wrappers

>> I mean, if hardware developers are all still busy making their own vendor API's (like EAX 3.0, etc) then why is DSound3D
>> so hot anyway

you are mistaken. EAX is not a 3-D API, it is a 'Environmental extension'
that is, it doesn't deal with 3-D Audio (positioning, listener-source attenuation, doppler etc..) -- it simply adds special effects such as reverb
there's even a special layer for using EAX stuff under OpenAL! (that is, you can use EAX both under DirectSound3D and OpenAL!)

there are TWO main 3-D Audio APIs - DirectSound3D and OpenAL (well, there was Aureal A3D some time ago...), and there are a lot of third-party extensions (such as EAX1,2,3)

why people deal with DirectSound3D? Simply because you cannot easily implement support for any other API while using WDM (Windows Driver Model) which is native for Windows

that is, if you deal with windows audio, it is much -easier- to implement DirectSound / DirectSound 3D than support any non-standard (!) OpenAL-like API [including Aureal A3D etc..]

there are currently only 4 commercial titles using openAL (according to creative site...)
perhaps, things will change in the future -- but at the moment I see no reason adding -native- support for OpenAL ... even more: I think that for Windows platform there should be NO native OpenAL drivers, because 'native' is DirectSound3D. if people are interested in OpenAL -- they can easily download DirectSound3D<->OpenAL wrapper...

/Eugene

p.s.

>> OpenAL was actually a committee arbitrated API

not exactly. open www.openal.org and review it
the only company currently interested in OpenAL is Creative

>> there is a Macintosh OS implementation

made by... Creative
made for... Macintosh Live! [ONLY!]

P.P.s.

the present OpenAL standard isn't perfect -- just try to install both implementations from NVidia & Creative -- and you'll see what I mean. I'm afraid there will be no 'green sign' for OpenAL until we see competing audio-hardware manufacturers..
at the moment, it is only a game played by Creative to promote their audio hardware...

inteks · Aug 11, 2003, 02:54 PM

>>the only company currently interested in OpenAL is Creative

the only company currenty makes useable 3dSoundHardware is Creative

pzmt · Sep 22, 2003, 01:04 PM

OpenAL specification was developed by Loky Games (www.lokigames.com). Company tryed sell linux games ( linux ports of windows games). Company bacrupt and OpenAL was buyed by Creative. First version of OpenAL was on Linux.

pz

inteks · Sep 23, 2003, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by inteks
>>the only company currently interested in OpenAL is Creative

the only company currenty makes useable 3dSoundHardware is Creative

and the only currently useable asio AND 3dsound driver is KXProject

inteks · Sep 23, 2003, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by inteks
and the only currently useable asio AND 3dsound driver is KXProject

and hopefully the first asio AND 3dsound AND openAL driver is KXProject , too

igor_levicki · Dec 3, 2003, 09:46 PM

Eugene, have you visited www.openal.org recently? Check the front page at least.

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Dec 3, 2003, 10:23 PM

>> Check the front page at least

it is now only =one= page dedicated to openal (the 'front' one)
and Loki is no more...

well...

and there are only 11 games supporting OpenAl

hmm... probably, I could re-download and review this 'anonymously' donated MacOS code (if it is available, of course)

actually, no 'real' news -- every OpenAL Fan can download the CL openAl installer -- and get OpenAL support (based on DirectSound)

/Eugene

igor_levicki · Dec 4, 2003, 09:02 PM

# and there are only 11 games supporting OpenAl

And some of them are quite popular like America's Army, and Jedi Knight games.

Maybe they are still not worth the effort but no harm in checking out.

pep · Dec 4, 2003, 10:54 PM

Yaaa America's Army ROX. But stereo sound kills me... OAL does not work for me

.

inteks · Dec 7, 2003, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eugene Gavrilov

and there are only 11 games supporting OpenAl

but that are really great games !!!!!

cocabubu · May 31, 2005, 10:27 AM

Hi!!Please help me!
One week ago i bought Audigy 4 pro end stupid dealers lost my driver
cd.My problem is
very big because i did install beta version end doesn't work very
well...neither remote
control nor media center.I wish u show me one link from i could take
all
the necessary
application about this product!
Creative support notice me that there is not update...At the moment i
can't uset.
Thank very much and i hope to help me verry soon!!!

imperia · Oct 24, 2005, 01:57 PM

it seems that id software is supporting openal.

RejZoR · Oct 24, 2005, 04:04 PM

Well ancient Need for Speed Hot Pursuit 2 is one of them too. All Unreal Tournaments after UT99 also support OpenAL (UT2003/2004) and upcoming UT2007.

PIRATA! · Nov 6, 2005, 10:02 PM

Well?? Will kXproject drivers soon suppoer OpenAL??? I really neeeed that for playing my favourites games!!!

P.S.: Is it possible to active the 24bit/96kHz in the kXproject drivers?? If so... how??

Thank you.

LOGIN NAME · Nov 6, 2005, 10:22 PM

Quake4 sounds great using OPENAL not to mention it doesn't cause the game to crash as compaired to default sound setting.

teck · Jun 20, 2006, 06:03 AM

how did u get openal to work with kx drivers?

Aug 3, 2003, 10:32 PM	#1
DocterDee DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 99 Rep Power: 0	OpenAL?! Has anyone tested the OpenAL Wrapper from Creative with the ne kX Drivers?

Aug 11, 2003, 02:54 PM	#8
inteks HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 90 Rep Power: 0	>>the only company currently interested in OpenAL is Creative the only company currenty makes useable 3dSoundHardware is Creative __________________ 3820TG i5@3.5Ghz HD5650@700/900 Windows7 On Intel X25-M G2 Postville 160GB 3820tray --- 3820TG ATI vBios MOD --- 1810t TME MOD --- Acc Sensor Mod

Dec 3, 2003, 09:46 PM	#12
igor_levicki Intel Black Belt Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 128 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Time to recheck things... Eugene, have you visited www.openal.org recently? Check the front page at least. __________________ Regards, Igor Levicki -- Creative Audigy 2 ZS Retail (SB0350) kX 3538h

Dec 4, 2003, 09:02 PM	#14
igor_levicki Intel Black Belt Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 128 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	# and there are only 11 games supporting OpenAl And some of them are quite popular like America's Army, and Jedi Knight games. Maybe they are still not worth the effort but no harm in checking out. __________________ Regards, Igor Levicki -- Creative Audigy 2 ZS Retail (SB0350) kX 3538h

Nov 6, 2005, 10:22 PM	#21
LOGIN NAME DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 32 Rep Power: 0	Quake4 sounds great using OPENAL not to mention it doesn't cause the game to crash as compaired to default sound setting. __________________ Tandy 8088 with turbo button

Aug 5, 2003, 08:01 PM	#2
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,119 Rep Power: 75	why do you think you need OpenAL? currently, it has no advantages compared to DirectSound 3D (at least, for PCs) /E

Aug 8, 2003, 04:42 AM	#3
synic0 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0	The advantage is that it is a cross-platform API, obviously. DirectX is completely stuck in the hands of Microsoft, and you cannot create an easily portable product using it. One particular product that has used OpenAL is UT2K3. Personally I think that OpenAL is a great way to go because it is vendor neutral and you can do acceleration of occlusion, etc without using EAX, A3D, or DirectSound3D and being beholden to a particular company's whims. If it weren't for open standards, we wouldn't have the Internet afterall... (no TCP/IP)

Aug 8, 2003, 10:35 PM	#4
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,119 Rep Power: 75	>> cross-platform API, obviously you need this advantage? what for? are you are software programmer? a game developer?.. why then? OpenAL is very similar to DirectSound 3D (there are no substantial differences between these APIs) >> it is vendor neutral do you know who's the author of OpenAL? do you know any implementation of OpenAL engine, except by Creative Labs for their Live-for-Mac card?.. (well, there's a linux version... abandoned long time ago) >> being beholden to a particular company's whims just open www.openal.org to check what company you will belong to also, browse the sources and check their dates... ---- cross-platform assumes any other platforms... currently, there's no good openAl implementation for any non-Windows OS. moreover, Windows version is just a sub-layer which translates the calls to DirectSound 3D everyone can download the openal32.dll from Creative which performs such translation and adds OpenAL support for any DirectSound 3-D aware card /Eugene

Aug 9, 2003, 08:40 AM	#5
Soeren_B kX Project DSP Engineer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 94 Rep Power: 0	Yeah! Despite that its name reminds very much about openGL which indeed is a powerfull cross platform API I fail to see why one should care about openAL ATM. I seems only as a weak attempt to make something else than DirectSound3D, but as there is little or close to no development or support for other platforms than Windows it will not succeed (IMO). (Though I will admit that it will make programming somewhat easier if the API is as easy to use as openGL compared to DirectX3D ) Cheers Soeren

Aug 11, 2003, 02:16 AM	#7
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,119 Rep Power: 75	>> The fact that both NVidia and Creative have both made SDK's for it seemed to suggest that it was an open standard both DirectSound 3D and OpenAL are 'open' standards (their SDKs and specification are available) -- compare it to EAX3.0 (which is 'closed' standard -- you cannot use it without an NDA -- but you can use EAX2/EAX1) the OpenAL is cross-platform, while DirectSound 3D isn't -- that's the only difference btw, you won't find any source code for OpenAL implementation except rather simple one for Linux... Creative / NVidia have never released their 'native' source code, just software emulations (which lack a lot of features) or the versions that represent simple DirectSound3D wrappers >> I mean, if hardware developers are all still busy making their own vendor API's (like EAX 3.0, etc) then why is DSound3D >> so hot anyway you are mistaken. EAX is not a 3-D API, it is a 'Environmental extension' that is, it doesn't deal with 3-D Audio (positioning, listener-source attenuation, doppler etc..) -- it simply adds special effects such as reverb there's even a special layer for using EAX stuff under OpenAL! (that is, you can use EAX both under DirectSound3D and OpenAL!) there are TWO main 3-D Audio APIs - DirectSound3D and OpenAL (well, there was Aureal A3D some time ago...), and there are a lot of third-party extensions (such as EAX1,2,3) why people deal with DirectSound3D? Simply because you cannot easily implement support for any other API while using WDM (Windows Driver Model) which is native for Windows that is, if you deal with windows audio, it is much -easier- to implement DirectSound / DirectSound 3D than support any non-standard (!) OpenAL-like API [including Aureal A3D etc..] there are currently only 4 commercial titles using openAL (according to creative site...) perhaps, things will change in the future -- but at the moment I see no reason adding -native- support for OpenAL ... even more: I think that for Windows platform there should be NO native OpenAL drivers, because 'native' is DirectSound3D. if people are interested in OpenAL -- they can easily download DirectSound3D<->OpenAL wrapper... /Eugene p.s. >> OpenAL was actually a committee arbitrated API not exactly. open www.openal.org and review it the only company currently interested in OpenAL is Creative >> there is a Macintosh OS implementation made by... Creative made for... Macintosh Live! [ONLY!] P.P.s. the present OpenAL standard isn't perfect -- just try to install both implementations from NVidia & Creative -- and you'll see what I mean. I'm afraid there will be no 'green sign' for OpenAL until we see competing audio-hardware manufacturers.. at the moment, it is only a game played by Creative to promote their audio hardware...

Sep 22, 2003, 01:04 PM	#9
pzmt DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	OpenAL specification was developed by Loky Games (www.lokigames.com). Company tryed sell linux games ( linux ports of windows games). Company bacrupt and OpenAL was buyed by Creative. First version of OpenAL was on Linux. pz

Dec 3, 2003, 10:23 PM	#13
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,119 Rep Power: 75	>> Check the front page at least it is now only =one= page dedicated to openal (the 'front' one) and Loki is no more... well... and there are only 11 games supporting OpenAl hmm... probably, I could re-download and review this 'anonymously' donated MacOS code (if it is available, of course) actually, no 'real' news -- every OpenAL Fan can download the CL openAl installer -- and get OpenAL support (based on DirectSound) /Eugene

Dec 4, 2003, 10:54 PM	#15
pep DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 7 Rep Power: 0	Yaaa America's Army ROX. But stereo sound kills me... OAL does not work for me .

May 31, 2005, 10:27 AM	#17
cocabubu DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3 Rep Power: 0	Hi!!Please help me! One week ago i bought Audigy 4 pro end stupid dealers lost my driver cd.My problem is very big because i did install beta version end doesn't work very well...neither remote control nor media center.I wish u show me one link from i could take all the necessary application about this product! Creative support notice me that there is not update...At the moment i can't uset. Thank very much and i hope to help me verry soon!!!

Oct 24, 2005, 01:57 PM	#18
imperia HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sofia, Bulgaria Posts: 174 Rep Power: 0	it seems that id software is supporting openal.

Oct 24, 2005, 04:04 PM	#19
RejZoR DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Europe/Slovenia/Ljubljana Posts: 153 Rep Power: 0	Well ancient Need for Speed Hot Pursuit 2 is one of them too. All Unreal Tournaments after UT99 also support OpenAL (UT2003/2004) and upcoming UT2007.

Nov 6, 2005, 10:02 PM	#20
PIRATA! HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pisa, Italy Posts: 36 Rep Power: 0	Well?? Will kXproject drivers soon suppoer OpenAL??? I really neeeed that for playing my favourites games!!! P.S.: Is it possible to active the 24bit/96kHz in the kXproject drivers?? If so... how?? Thank you.

Jun 20, 2006, 06:03 AM	#22
teck DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3 Rep Power: 0	how did u get openal to work with kx drivers?