I need to hack ATI's WDM driver =(

Monrad · Mar 16, 2006, 08:37 PM

Hi guys, I know this is my first post, but I'm not new to forums. I'm also Monrad @Rage3D and I'm willing to find temporal answers to my issues right now.

The story:

I live in Argentina. I've bought a X1800XL All In Wonder to play and watch TV. I installed MMC 9.13 and latest drivers... and Argentina was not even listed in the MMC country list. So I downloaded ChrisTV (I just wanted to watch TV you know, I don't mind what software I'm using) and guess what... PAL_NC didn't work. It just looked like PAL_N but PAL_NC and PAL_N are different video standards.

The Problem:

So, I downloaded graphedit to trace the problem and I found it. Sadly, WDM drivers for X1K AIW series doesn't support PAL_NC. ATI did the same mistake when releasing 9000 AIW series until they fixed the problem. But users had to wait almost a year in order to use their beloved AIW features.

Now... I'm "scared". I don't want to wait and wait and wait. I have confirmation from Kombatant @Rage3D that ATI is working on my problem with WDM drivers and it should be solved on Cat 6.4 or 6.5... but you know, you can't trust companies in this cases.

Here's a screenshot of graphedit:

As you can see, there's no PAL_NC. If you look in the whole list, at bottom you'll find an [Unknown] item. I don't know if that Unknown item should be PAL_NC or ATI just *forgot* to add PAL_NC thinking that Argentina would use PAL_N which is wrong.

The Question:

What I need to know is if there's any possibility to hack WDM drivers in order to change, for example, PAL_N mode and convert it to PAL_NC mode.

Maybe I don't even need to hack the drivers, I only need something that tells the driver that PAL_N is THIS and not THAT (I hope you understand :P).

I mean... these are the differences between PAL_NC and PAL_N:

PAL (N)
Line/Field = 625/50
FH = 15.625 khz
FV = 50 Hz
FSC = 4.43361875 Mhz
Blanking Setup = 7.5 IRE
Video Bandwidth = 5.0 Mhz
Audio Carrier = 5.5 Mhz
Channel Bandwidth = 6 Mhz

PAL (Combination N)
Line/Field = 625/50
FH = 15.625 khz
FV = 50 Hz
FSC = 3.58205625 Mhz (Burst Frequency)
Blanking Setup = 0 IRE
Video Bandwidth = 4.2 Mhz
Audio Carrier = 4.5 Mhz
Channel Bandwidth = 6 Mhz

I don't know if it's that difficult to cheat the driver and make it pass PAL_NC values instead of PAL_N values.

Final questions:

Is it difficult to do? Will I be able to do it with SoftIce? Can anybody help me here?

Thanks a lot and try to understand that I've been watching TV in my room for years and now I just can't. Now that I spend almost all my savings in this video card hoping everything would work it just doesn't (in Argentina, prices are much higher and our currency is $3 = U$S 1 which means we have to work three more times to save enough money to buy something in dollars).

Thanks again

H3X4D3C1M4L · Mar 17, 2006, 01:12 AM

Have you contacted ATI? Because pardon my french but that's bullshit... it should work if its saleable in Argentina.

I would have suggested going with an older MMC but that card is only supported under 9.13

You could also check out older drivers that support the X1800XL...perhaps its just a 6.3 mess up
One idea is to try power strip and see if it allows you to custom format the signals to your TV, since you know all the specs it'd be easier to do.

Judas · Mar 17, 2006, 01:59 AM

please add that all to this thread... as imo, yet again ATI totally ignoring the line of cards that really could make the change to pure digital TV or just entertaiment seamless....

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/all-wonder-tv-video-capture/89780-come-ati-little-more-work-aiw-series-please.html

H3X4D3C1M4L · Mar 17, 2006, 02:18 AM

I really hope this isn't gonna end up being just another disgruntled customer joining the MMC thread and I hope ATI DOES SOMETHING! Driver release after driver release I keep getting disappointed again and again.

We need MMC10 and working WDM's pronto!

Monrad · Mar 17, 2006, 10:18 AM

Thanks for your replies guys. I've been reading the other thread and I know I'm not the only one here with problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by H3X4D3C1M4L

Have you contacted ATI? Because pardon my french but that's bullshit... it should work if its saleable in Argentina.

I would have suggested going with an older MMC but that card is only supported under 9.13

You could also check out older drivers that support the X1800XL...perhaps its just a 6.3 mess up
One idea is to try power strip and see if it allows you to custom format the signals to your TV, since you know all the specs it'd be easier to do.

I've contacted ATI and they told me to try older drivers and MMC 9.08, but the only WDM drivers that work for me are from Cat 5.12, 5.13, 6.1, 6.2 and 6.3 and guess what, it's not a single driver issue. Every WDM driver for X1K series has the same problem.

I can understand why this happened. If you look at your ATI directory, which is created when you install WDM drivers, you'll see three directories: WDM_SP, WDM_NSP and AVS_T200. The only driver I'm able to use is the one inside AVS_T200. The other two drivers are for older AIW video cards, and they work with PAL_NC perfectly as far as I know.

PowerStrip didnt' help, I can't find a place to insert PAL_NC settings in that program

Thanks anyway

About the card being sold in Argentina... yes, it's being sold and I guess it's because older AIW series supported our country and It'd be normal to think that ATI would support our country in X1K series as well...

What I know is that ATI is not planning to support Argentina in MMC

, as far as I know, they'll fix the PAL_NC issue in the WDM driver and that's it. I don't get what's the difficulty with supporting our country. When I bought a Hauppauge PVR-250 some time ago, I had the same problems. The only difference is that I got a response and a patch from Hauppauge in less than 48 hours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by H3X4D3C1M4L

I really hope this isn't gonna end up being just another disgruntled customer joining the MMC thread and I hope ATI DOES SOMETHING! Driver release after driver release I keep getting disappointed again and again.

We need MMC10 and working WDM's pronto!

I'm not a happy customer and I doubt I'd buy an AIW series again... unless ATI change its attitude. They seem not to care about AIW users... or Linux users... that's something else I really didn't like. There's no Linux driver for my card

I guess I'll have to wait unless somebody knows how to do what I'm trying to do

H3X4D3C1M4L · Mar 17, 2006, 05:01 PM

I know what you're trying to do its just I haven't tried decompiling ATI Drivers yet and I'm not sure how easy that'd be to do.

But its worth looking into

Monrad · Mar 17, 2006, 05:30 PM

I'll try SoftIce and see what happens when I change video standards in graphedit. The problem is that I don't know exactly how assembler works... I guess I'll have to figure it out

H3X4D3C1M4L · Mar 17, 2006, 06:05 PM

You're not looking at it in assembler

Using a hex editor wouldn't really help in this case unless the PAL_NC support was there but switched off

Monrad · Mar 17, 2006, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H3X4D3C1M4L

You're not looking at it in assembler

Using a hex editor wouldn't really help in this case unless the PAL_NC support was there but switched off

Do you know how to use SoftIce? If you do, I'll probably ask you some questions when I start watching what my computer does when changing video standards

You are on time to say "no, I don't know" and avoid some n00b questions

H3X4D3C1M4L · Mar 17, 2006, 07:02 PM

I've used SoftICE before but I don't exactly know how it'll help... if it isn't there then you could spend hours not finding it. Its like running a stack trace just to find out you were tracing the wrong stack sort of thing

Monrad · Mar 19, 2006, 04:19 PM

Ok, I got it. I know what I need but I don't know how to do it. What I need to do is to pass some information to my video card tuner on the fly. I mean... I need some program to access my card and modify an existing video standard. It sounds easy, but it requires a lot of knowledge about ATI's Tuner

What I should do, if I had this program, is to set my video standard to PAL_N and then modify on the fly what I need to "convert it" to PAL_NC. I need to know which registers allocate this info in order to change it.

It'd be annoying to do it every time I change a channel... but I wish I could watch TV at least. I don't mind if I need to do this while I wait for ATI to release a fix for my WDM drivers.

I'm going really mad about this. It's like buying a piece of hardware and having to wait for the driver.

Imagine yourself buying a TvTuner card and having to wait 3 or 4 months because there's no driver for you... it suckz. And I can do NOTHING with the AIW part of my video card. It's totally disfunctional.

This is how I look@ATI right now:

Me: Hi ATI, you forgot to provide PAL_NC video standard.

ATI: Sorry, we don't support your country, you don't buy enough cards for us to worry about you.

Me: What? C'mon, we buy your video cards and you can't tell me adding PAL_NC is difficult. It's just a "copy paste" thing modifying some numbers... you could do it in less than an hour!!

ATI: Sorry, no.

Me: Why?

ATI: Little market, goodbye.

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!

H3X4D3C1M4L · Mar 21, 2006, 09:20 PM

You're trying to change registers in real time? Bad idea, thats viral like activity.

What I would do is phone your local ATI support and complain really loudly and say they're being racist. That'll get their attention.

Monrad · Mar 21, 2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H3X4D3C1M4L

You're trying to change registers in real time? Bad idea, thats viral like activity.

What I would do is phone your local ATI support and complain really loudly and say they're being racist. That'll get their attention.

The problem is that the only guy that speaks spanish is so kind. I've talked with him once and I can't blame him for anything

Errrr... and he had no idea that X1K series didn't work with older WDM drivers... he recommend me to install MMC 9.08 which doesn't work with my video card, but that's ok. If ATI driver deveolopers are so misinformed about their products (we see this in every WDM driver release), I really can't blame a poor technical support guy that doesn't even live near ATI headquarters.

H3X4D3C1M4L · Mar 21, 2006, 09:37 PM

Call ATI HQ then. They only speak English but you can still get pissed at them

Monrad · Mar 22, 2006, 05:50 PM

H3X4D3C1M4L, do you think Linux people (coders) will be able to help me with this? I know there's no X1800 Linux driver, but maybe they know what to do to set video standards

I'm not asking for them to do the whole job, just to tell me where I should begin and what I should try

H3X4D3C1M4L · Mar 22, 2006, 09:43 PM

If you're using Linux you should be able to code it based on the tuner's specs... if it uses the same tuner as the X1800 or X800 series even I'm sure someone would've figured it out now.

Mar 16, 2006, 08:37 PM	#1
Monrad DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 21 Rep Power: 0	I need to hack ATI's WDM driver =( Hi guys, I know this is my first post, but I'm not new to forums. I'm also Monrad @Rage3D and I'm willing to find temporal answers to my issues right now. The story: I live in Argentina. I've bought a X1800XL All In Wonder to play and watch TV. I installed MMC 9.13 and latest drivers... and Argentina was not even listed in the MMC country list. So I downloaded ChrisTV (I just wanted to watch TV you know, I don't mind what software I'm using) and guess what... PAL_NC didn't work. It just looked like PAL_N but PAL_NC and PAL_N are different video standards. The Problem: So, I downloaded graphedit to trace the problem and I found it. Sadly, WDM drivers for X1K AIW series doesn't support PAL_NC. ATI did the same mistake when releasing 9000 AIW series until they fixed the problem. But users had to wait almost a year in order to use their beloved AIW features. Now... I'm "scared". I don't want to wait and wait and wait. I have confirmation from Kombatant @Rage3D that ATI is working on my problem with WDM drivers and it should be solved on Cat 6.4 or 6.5... but you know, you can't trust companies in this cases. Here's a screenshot of graphedit: As you can see, there's no PAL_NC. If you look in the whole list, at bottom you'll find an [Unknown] item. I don't know if that Unknown item should be PAL_NC or ATI just forgot to add PAL_NC thinking that Argentina would use PAL_N which is wrong. The Question: What I need to know is if there's any possibility to hack WDM drivers in order to change, for example, PAL_N mode and convert it to PAL_NC mode. Maybe I don't even need to hack the drivers, I only need something that tells the driver that PAL_N is THIS and not THAT (I hope you understand :P). I mean... these are the differences between PAL_NC and PAL_N: PAL (N) Line/Field = 625/50 FH = 15.625 khz FV = 50 Hz FSC = 4.43361875 Mhz Blanking Setup = 7.5 IRE Video Bandwidth = 5.0 Mhz Audio Carrier = 5.5 Mhz Channel Bandwidth = 6 Mhz PAL (Combination N) Line/Field = 625/50 FH = 15.625 khz FV = 50 Hz FSC = 3.58205625 Mhz (Burst Frequency) Blanking Setup = 0 IRE Video Bandwidth = 4.2 Mhz Audio Carrier = 4.5 Mhz Channel Bandwidth = 6 Mhz I don't know if it's that difficult to cheat the driver and make it pass PAL_NC values instead of PAL_N values. Final questions: Is it difficult to do? Will I be able to do it with SoftIce? Can anybody help me here? Thanks a lot and try to understand that I've been watching TV in my room for years and now I just can't. Now that I spend almost all my savings in this video card hoping everything would work it just doesn't (in Argentina, prices are much higher and our currency is $3 = U$S 1 which means we have to work three more times to save enough money to buy something in dollars). Thanks again __________________ AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Venice DFI LanParty UTnf4 Ultra-D 2x512 SuperTalent DDR500 2-3-3-8 ATI Radeon X1800XL AIW Sound Blaster Audigy ZS Maxtor 160GB Tagan 480W Power Supply (580w peak)

Mar 17, 2006, 05:30 PM	Thread Starter #7
Monrad DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 21 Rep Power: 0	I'll try SoftIce and see what happens when I change video standards in graphedit. The problem is that I don't know exactly how assembler works... I guess I'll have to figure it out __________________ AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Venice DFI LanParty UTnf4 Ultra-D 2x512 SuperTalent DDR500 2-3-3-8 ATI Radeon X1800XL AIW Sound Blaster Audigy ZS Maxtor 160GB Tagan 480W Power Supply (580w peak)

Mar 19, 2006, 04:19 PM	Thread Starter #11
Monrad DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 21 Rep Power: 0	Ok, I got it. I know what I need but I don't know how to do it. What I need to do is to pass some information to my video card tuner on the fly. I mean... I need some program to access my card and modify an existing video standard. It sounds easy, but it requires a lot of knowledge about ATI's Tuner What I should do, if I had this program, is to set my video standard to PAL_N and then modify on the fly what I need to "convert it" to PAL_NC. I need to know which registers allocate this info in order to change it. It'd be annoying to do it every time I change a channel... but I wish I could watch TV at least. I don't mind if I need to do this while I wait for ATI to release a fix for my WDM drivers. I'm going really mad about this. It's like buying a piece of hardware and having to wait for the driver. Imagine yourself buying a TvTuner card and having to wait 3 or 4 months because there's no driver for you... it suckz. And I can do NOTHING with the AIW part of my video card. It's totally disfunctional. This is how I look@ATI right now: Me: Hi ATI, you forgot to provide PAL_NC video standard. ATI: Sorry, we don't support your country, you don't buy enough cards for us to worry about you. Me: What? C'mon, we buy your video cards and you can't tell me adding PAL_NC is difficult. It's just a "copy paste" thing modifying some numbers... you could do it in less than an hour!! ATI: Sorry, no. Me: Why? ATI: Little market, goodbye. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Venice DFI LanParty UTnf4 Ultra-D 2x512 SuperTalent DDR500 2-3-3-8 ATI Radeon X1800XL AIW Sound Blaster Audigy ZS Maxtor 160GB Tagan 480W Power Supply (580w peak)

Mar 22, 2006, 05:50 PM	Thread Starter #15
Monrad DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 21 Rep Power: 0	H3X4D3C1M4L, do you think Linux people (coders) will be able to help me with this? I know there's no X1800 Linux driver, but maybe they know what to do to set video standards I'm not asking for them to do the whole job, just to tell me where I should begin and what I should try __________________ AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Venice DFI LanParty UTnf4 Ultra-D 2x512 SuperTalent DDR500 2-3-3-8 ATI Radeon X1800XL AIW Sound Blaster Audigy ZS Maxtor 160GB Tagan 480W Power Supply (580w peak)

Mar 17, 2006, 01:12 AM	#2
H3X4D3C1M4L DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,794 Rep Power: 0	Have you contacted ATI? Because pardon my french but that's bullshit... it should work if its saleable in Argentina. I would have suggested going with an older MMC but that card is only supported under 9.13 You could also check out older drivers that support the X1800XL...perhaps its just a 6.3 mess up One idea is to try power strip and see if it allows you to custom format the signals to your TV, since you know all the specs it'd be easier to do.

Mar 17, 2006, 02:18 AM	#4
H3X4D3C1M4L DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,794 Rep Power: 0	I really hope this isn't gonna end up being just another disgruntled customer joining the MMC thread and I hope ATI DOES SOMETHING! Driver release after driver release I keep getting disappointed again and again. We need MMC10 and working WDM's pronto!

Mar 17, 2006, 05:01 PM	#6
H3X4D3C1M4L DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,794 Rep Power: 0	I know what you're trying to do its just I haven't tried decompiling ATI Drivers yet and I'm not sure how easy that'd be to do. But its worth looking into

Mar 17, 2006, 06:05 PM	#8
H3X4D3C1M4L DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,794 Rep Power: 0	You're not looking at it in assembler Using a hex editor wouldn't really help in this case unless the PAL_NC support was there but switched off

Mar 17, 2006, 07:02 PM	#10
H3X4D3C1M4L DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,794 Rep Power: 0	I've used SoftICE before but I don't exactly know how it'll help... if it isn't there then you could spend hours not finding it. Its like running a stack trace just to find out you were tracing the wrong stack sort of thing

Mar 21, 2006, 09:20 PM	#12
H3X4D3C1M4L DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,794 Rep Power: 0	You're trying to change registers in real time? Bad idea, thats viral like activity. What I would do is phone your local ATI support and complain really loudly and say they're being racist. That'll get their attention.

Mar 21, 2006, 09:37 PM	#14
H3X4D3C1M4L DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,794 Rep Power: 0	Call ATI HQ then. They only speak English but you can still get pissed at them

Mar 22, 2006, 09:43 PM	#16
H3X4D3C1M4L DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,794 Rep Power: 0	If you're using Linux you should be able to code it based on the tuner's specs... if it uses the same tuner as the X1800 or X800 series even I'm sure someone would've figured it out now.