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Old May 8, 2006, 10:31 PM   #91
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Sad Here is my experience with Crossfire.

Not too much fun. I posted up a thread over at Anandtech forums.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...&enterthread=y

I had rolling lines (most prevalent with a white background) and actually had the screen turn a yellowish color in 2D (desktop) intermittently after a long gaming session. When using the Master or Slave X1800XT by itself, I had absolutely no video corruption what-so-ever. Didn't have any issues with running Crossfire on a LCD monitor (tried it on a Samsung 930b), but I like CRTs and decided to just do a single X1900XT for the time being. Just wanted to let you all know I'm right there with you getting disgusted with these issues.

Also, I tried taking out the Soundblaster X-Fi from my rig and it didn't make any difference with the video issues I was having. My rig is a dual core Pentium D 920@4.0Ghz, 2GB RAM, and 620w Enermax Liberty power supply. Finally, I tried unplugging from my APC unit and that didn't do anything helpful either.
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Old May 9, 2006, 06:27 AM   #92
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System Specs

Problem's most likely the dual-link DVI chips. I get no scan issues on LCD, but lots on CRT...rolling scan lines and colour shifts as well. Lcd, however, will give me random artifacts or random flashing textures while in 3d.

I have shared IRQ's as well, on DFI RDX200 motherboard, but have not noticed it really cause an issue. The Creative audigy card that i have shares IRQ's with both cards, as the firewire port on the sound card gets slotted with the XTX. I have none of the performance issues others complain of tho, so this is most likely a motherboard-related issue, and most likely down to how the southbridge is routed.

The enermax 620w PSU is not enough for a dualcore cpu and crossfire. placing more load on the 12v line shared with one card and the cpu causes more frequent crashes and greater issues. This is even a problem for single card users, should they decide to use the wrong pci-e power connector on the PSU itself. My further experiences with PSU's had led me to confirm that usinga dual 12v PSU with x1900's is not a good idea. Upgrading to a x1900Crossfire certified psu, with 3-12v rails, has fixed most issues related to crashes and atidvag.dll that i had experienced.

My system is not stable @ stock speeds w/ both cards installed, however overclcoking seems to have righted any 3D issues i had(random crashes, major artifacting etc).

I noticed a while back that someone on some forum had posted about changing the name of the executable could change the crossfire rendering mode. I tried this and managed to allieviate any performance issues I had in some games, but the arifacts on 2d still persist every once in a while.

While perusing the ATI site, looking for answers, i decided to check out the manual, which had an addition that is not in either manual that came with either of my cards, nor appeared as a leaflet inserted into the packaging, as is sometimes found. This update mentions that the short cable on the Crossfire Donlge should be on the inside....and mine wasn't.

With rumours of RMA's with a board revision, and having to send in both cards, it seems likely to me that the dongle/dual-link DVI solution is what is at fault.
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Old May 9, 2006, 09:50 AM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #93
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It is highly possible. I am still waiting on an answer to my ticket about what is revised with these new board versions. The first response they sent me was details on how to RMA lol. Oh well, I'll post updates with any information.
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Old May 9, 2006, 03:03 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
Problem's most likely the dual-link DVI chips. I get no scan issues on LCD, but lots on CRT...rolling scan lines and colour shifts as well. Lcd, however, will give me random artifacts or random flashing textures while in 3d.

I have shared IRQ's as well, on DFI RDX200 motherboard, but have not noticed it really cause an issue. The Creative audigy card that i have shares IRQ's with both cards, as the firewire port on the sound card gets slotted with the XTX. I have none of the performance issues others complain of tho, so this is most likely a motherboard-related issue, and most likely down to how the southbridge is routed.

The enermax 620w PSU is not enough for a dualcore cpu and crossfire. placing more load on the 12v line shared with one card and the cpu causes more frequent crashes and greater issues. This is even a problem for single card users, should they decide to use the wrong pci-e power connector on the PSU itself. My further experiences with PSU's had led me to confirm that usinga dual 12v PSU with x1900's is not a good idea. Upgrading to a x1900Crossfire certified psu, with 3-12v rails, has fixed most issues related to crashes and atidvag.dll that i had experienced.

My system is not stable @ stock speeds w/ both cards installed, however overclcoking seems to have righted any 3D issues i had(random crashes, major artifacting etc).

I noticed a while back that someone on some forum had posted about changing the name of the executable could change the crossfire rendering mode. I tried this and managed to allieviate any performance issues I had in some games, but the arifacts on 2d still persist every once in a while.

While perusing the ATI site, looking for answers, i decided to check out the manual, which had an addition that is not in either manual that came with either of my cards, nor appeared as a leaflet inserted into the packaging, as is sometimes found. This update mentions that the short cable on the Crossfire Donlge should be on the inside....and mine wasn't.

With rumours of RMA's with a board revision, and having to send in both cards, it seems likely to me that the dongle/dual-link DVI solution is what is at fault.
I too had no issues with Crossfire on DVI LCD monitors, but had the same issues you mentioned with a CRT monitor. I too think it is the DVI chips or dongle and I'm leaning toward the DVI chips as the culprit (tried shielding the dongle ghetto style with Al foil). I do wonder if the composting chip could be at fault as well?

However, I have to disagree about the Enermax PSU. The way that PSU is wired, it is impossible to mix the 12V1 (system devices + PCI-E) with the 12V2 (dedicated to CPU load bearing). My system was completely stable running Quake 4 16xAA 16xAF and Oblivion with AA + HDR via the Chuck patch for hours. The colors would yellow in games sometimes though and perhaps the moving pictures when playing games masked the rolling lines on the CRT. My solution is to sell off the hardware and buy an X1900XT to "get by" on until the bugs are worked out.

Warning - Power Supply PDF
http://www.enermax.com/english/uploa...6334895923.pdf
See diagram on last page of manual. The CPU is electrically on a separate rail and there is no way to hook PCI-E with the CPU. Smart design IMO.

Last edited by Golgatha; May 9, 2006 at 03:09 PM.
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Old May 9, 2006, 06:03 PM   #95
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System Specs

I understand where you are coming from golgatha, but think about this for a moment.


PSU has 2x12v lines. two videocards, and cpu all draw power from 12v, and 12v only. If there are only 2 lines, and you cannot merge cpu and cards on one line, then you end up with both cards and most periphrial devices on the same line. this also includes the motherboard, as my mobo features a floppy power connection to pwoer the pci-e slots.

Either way you shake it, 22a is not enough for either cpu and vid, vid and vid, or whatever else may be going on, and hence my stance on the enermax.

I have the psu here with me. I'll crack it open and take some pics so you see what i mean, if need be.
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Old May 9, 2006, 07:27 PM   #96
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my tagan 580W have two 12V rails .. 20A per rail, when in combined mode by switch on rear side on PSU which change it to 35A combined didnt make any difference for me, just first time i got alot of BSOD and crashes but reinstalling driver fixed it, well .. tomorrow i will get HIS Master so i hope, shaky screen and rolling screen over VGA will be fixed (though why use VGA right, when you can have DVI :P)
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Old May 9, 2006, 09:24 PM   #97
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Hey tritan..

How do you have your crossfire cards installed? Crossfire master card in top slot with slave in the bottom?
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Old May 9, 2006, 09:29 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
I understand where you are coming from golgatha, but think about this for a moment.


PSU has 2x12v lines. two videocards, and cpu all draw power from 12v, and 12v only. If there are only 2 lines, and you cannot merge cpu and cards on one line, then you end up with both cards and most periphrial devices on the same line. this also includes the motherboard, as my mobo features a floppy power connection to pwoer the pci-e slots.

Either way you shake it, 22a is not enough for either cpu and vid, vid and vid, or whatever else may be going on, and hence my stance on the enermax.

I have the psu here with me. I'll crack it open and take some pics so you see what i mean, if need be.
I'm just saying I actually ran it without any problems.

I'm not the only one - http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1933039,00.asp
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Old May 10, 2006, 09:08 AM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas
Hey tritan..

How do you have your crossfire cards installed? Crossfire master card in top slot with slave in the bottom?
Yes, Master card in the top - slave in the bottom. I'm pretty sure it wont even work the other way around?
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Old May 10, 2006, 05:25 PM   #100
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Try it..

I don't know how many sites i went over, and all over ATI's own page and Various Motherboard Manufacturers.... but

ATI Rep suggest i switch the cards around.

After you do this, you must go into the bios and set the BOOT device from PCI-EX1~>PCI-EX2 to PCI-EX2~>PCI-EX1 mode

Load up windows and wait for the drivers to install for the cards..

after it's done (ignoreing the ati error message for CCC about drivers)... restart the computer

go into the CCC and enable Crossfire mode.


So far i've had no BSODs... even nearly fully overclocked as far as my ocz 600 will allow me. Not to mention disappearing and unsupported messages on the monitor are not as prevailent.

The only thing bothering me now is the wobbles, but they are in most cases, pretty much gone.

This is really stupid....


Also, i'd suggest when you move the card, plug the DVI connector DIRECTLY ABOVE THE MASTER PORT to the slave card.


I even got a small boost in preformance beleive it or not, and FSAA appears to have better effects.
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Old May 10, 2006, 11:11 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas
Try it..

I don't know how many sites i went over, and all over ATI's own page and Various Motherboard Manufacturers.... but

ATI Rep suggest i switch the cards around.

After you do this, you must go into the bios and set the BOOT device from PCI-EX1~>PCI-EX2 to PCI-EX2~>PCI-EX1 mode

Load up windows and wait for the drivers to install for the cards..

after it's done (ignoreing the ati error message for CCC about drivers)... restart the computer

go into the CCC and enable Crossfire mode.


So far i've had no BSODs... even nearly fully overclocked as far as my ocz 600 will allow me. Not to mention disappearing and unsupported messages on the monitor are not as prevailent.

The only thing bothering me now is the wobbles, but they are in most cases, pretty much gone.

This is really stupid....


Also, i'd suggest when you move the card, plug the DVI connector DIRECTLY ABOVE THE MASTER PORT to the slave card.


I even got a small boost in preformance beleive it or not, and FSAA appears to have better effects.
You know i already has the crossfire cable in the prime port on the slave, i tested both ways & they both worked so i thought what the hell this is easyer.

I will try the card switch later.
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Old May 10, 2006, 11:52 PM   #102
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thing is.. ATI rep just told me that ALL crossfire setups should ALWAYS have the crossfire master card in the 2ndary slot and the slave in the primary... even in the xpress 3200 series motherboards.. and advised against whatever any other manufacturers would have written in the manual.
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Old May 11, 2006, 09:53 AM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #103
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Pardon me but wtf? Every single manual / guide on crossfire out there says master card on top... very interesting find judas. I'll go ahead and swap em around and see how it goes.

Be interesting if they work BETTER than what the damn manuals say to do lol.
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Old May 11, 2006, 08:20 PM   #104
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they are working..

i connected my crt and absalutely zero issues... zero!....

i even posted some snazzy shots in the gameing forum of my crt running 2048x1536...

Lineage2 imo, is a damn picky game, it picks and chooses when to allow fsaa to be apllied.. (and tries to prevent it when hdr is enabled)
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Old May 12, 2006, 11:27 AM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #105
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Currently working but still seeing the interference lines when hard drives are being accessed. *shrug* Still awaiting ATI rep.
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Old May 12, 2006, 05:28 PM   #106
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ok..

so you moved the master card to the bottom and the slave to the top..

then set in the bios to boot from the bottom slot instead of the top..

then waited for windows to install the drivers.. then rebooted.

then turned crossfire on..

fired up a game?


Btw i'd also suggest setting in display option, that either the refresh rate of your choice, or to desktop settings.

ATM, all my problems are solved pretty much, i get occasional screen jump on my DVI monitors, but on the crt, not a single hitch or oddity.

I've even overclocked everything again and still no problems aside from my psu kicking out due to overdrawing.

Wish to get you up and running though..

Hey, your using ULi right, what driver, what bios revision, what all you have connected..

i've got my silicon image controller turned right off.
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Old May 12, 2006, 08:02 PM   #107
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i find solution for my rolling screen (i mean waves on background thru DVI-VGA adapter)
what was solution?
well i run powerstrip, it probably inicialize LCD .. blackscreen for awhile, then back and waves on background are nearly invisible, at least something i did, and when i press advanced timing and messed a little with setting then screen can move in any direction which reminds i could try it once more over DVI, run higher voltage and try to lock scan frequencies and total geometry, maybe it will not shake anymore :-)
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Old May 17, 2006, 11:27 PM   #108
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Crossfire issues

This what happens on Oblivion...no watercooling...it powers down completely. When I have water cooling it just restarts. Running on non-crossfire works like a charm. Oh btw do not alt-tab when in crossfire or u will get a nice restart. I found a great source that points most of these issue to the PSU and I mean seriously a really strong PSU to run this setup....here is the PSU they recommend PC Power & Cooling TurboCool 850 SSI.

They said it helped run it fine. Here is the website you should check out also...
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1932446,00.asp
"
Interestingly, we went through three power supplies before we found one that consistently worked with these high-end graphics cards and an FX-60. We initially started with a Silverstone 600W SLI-certified power supply, but running some games resulted in the system powering down under full load. We next moved onto a higher rated Thermaltake PurePower SLI certified 680W unit. While most games ran most of the time, the system would still occasionally shut down. Finally, we ended up using PC Power & Cooling's massive TurboCool 850 SSI. This just goes to show that if you really want to build something that pushes the bleeding edge, make sure you have the right power supply."

Well there you have it...get a monster powersupply and it might work just fine...hehe MIGHT work...I am going to try this method after I find where I am going to have to steal another 450 for a power supply...man...I should have just gone SLI


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Old May 18, 2006, 12:30 AM   #109
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yes.... super beefy PSU required... like i mentioned a Dual 12v rail psu won't handle it.. period.... 600 watt SLI ocz powerstream here with complete shutdowns..... need more power... MORE!
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Old May 18, 2006, 02:38 AM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #110
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Haven't experienced any shutdowns with my fortron yet, 700w. It was one of the recommendeds on ati's site I believe and it wasn't that expensive. Has been a great psu so far just can't get past a lot of the general crossfire issues.
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Old May 18, 2006, 02:43 AM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas
ok..

so you moved the master card to the bottom and the slave to the top..

then set in the bios to boot from the bottom slot instead of the top..

then waited for windows to install the drivers.. then rebooted.

then turned crossfire on..

fired up a game?


Btw i'd also suggest setting in display option, that either the refresh rate of your choice, or to desktop settings.

ATM, all my problems are solved pretty much, i get occasional screen jump on my DVI monitors, but on the crt, not a single hitch or oddity.

I've even overclocked everything again and still no problems aside from my psu kicking out due to overdrawing.

Wish to get you up and running though..

Hey, your using ULi right, what driver, what bios revision, what all you have connected..

i've got my silicon image controller turned right off.
Did all of that yes,

Bios revision 0404

silicon image turned off from day one.

ULI drivers 1.0.5.8

What's connected, mmm LCD Multisync 1960nx
Soundblaster x-fi fatal1ty
Thermaltake bigwater se water cooling

Haven't really seen much of a performance increase by switching master cardto the bottom. Not really sure if it helped at all. Quake is getting choppy in multiplayer.
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Old May 18, 2006, 04:54 AM   #112
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damn...

i've pretty much resolved most of all the crossfire specific problems related to video output aside from the complete bullshit seen in CCC and the drivers related to having more then one monitor connected and overdrive not to mention unable to detect CRTs...
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Old May 18, 2006, 06:44 AM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #113
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I think tomorrow I'm gonna go monitor shopping and do another reformat / clean everything up again. I'm still a little skeptic about having the card in the bottom. Interesting that the manual says it "MUST" be in the top spot for it to work. Seems to work fine both ways so <shrug> I'll let you know how it goes, for now I'm delving back into my ps2 and devil may cry series.

[edit] Check this out, user wrote this on the DFI lanparty xpress3200 motherboard review at new egg. Is this true? There is no need for the dongle with the 1900's?

Correction on the cable question

Pros: accually one of the big advantages of the 3200 chipset is that x1900's up no longer require the cables....

Tritan - I'm pretty sure this is almost incorrect. I've been doing some reading and found that 1800 and below were compatible without the dongle just communicating between the peg lanes with a minor performance hit if they became flooded. supposedly there's a rumor going around that a new driver set will enable 1900's without the dongle but same deal, minor performance hit. Ultimately the dongle allowes full communication.
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Old May 18, 2006, 05:26 PM   #114
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I should get my crossfire mobo and Master card tomorrow. So I can have a look at this issue.
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Old May 18, 2006, 05:33 PM   #115
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lucky you Spyre, I have the mobo just need the Master card
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Old May 18, 2006, 05:38 PM   #116
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I think the cat 6.3s are alot more stable... crossfire wise..

and x64 driver seems alot more stable yet.

as for the crossfire without the dongle..... that should only apply to the sub x1800/1900 series....
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Old May 21, 2006, 11:55 PM   #117
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ok..

so you moved the master card to the bottom and the slave to the top..

then set in the bios to boot from the bottom slot instead of the top..

then waited for windows to install the drivers.. then rebooted.

then turned crossfire on..

fired up a game?


Btw i'd also suggest setting in display option, that either the refresh rate of your choice, or to desktop settings.

ATM, all my problems are solved pretty much, i get occasional screen jump on my DVI monitors, but on the crt, not a single hitch or oddity.

I've even overclocked everything again and still no problems aside from my psu kicking out due to overdrawing.

Wish to get you up and running though..

Hey, your using ULi right, what driver, what bios revision, what all you have connected..

i've got my silicon image controller turned right off.
But how you get that set on DFI? i just cant get it to work, even if i enable reverse GFX1 .. i can only boot with mastercard down, or with slave, but then i need to put DVI cable on DVI port on slave, otherwise blackscreen :-(
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Old May 22, 2006, 12:14 AM   #118
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one word: Creative

That is your problem and frankly allways will be..

I've got 2 X-FI cards here, the 64mb one and the typical "decent" one.

They are crap. Period. Your better off running with Onboard sound. And trust me, your Asus A8R32-MVP has the realtek ALC882 High Def Audio chipset. Your are SERIOUSLY going to be better off with it.

My own machine, Creatives drivers (just trying to run JUST the drivers) constantly is fubaring my machine. Anything creative (sound card) that i put into any machine ends up having some form of issues that don't seem at all directly related to the creative card. It's so bloody unfortuneate.

Just remove the sound card... Enable onboard audio, install the latest realtek drivers. And you'll be fine!
Interesting, ive ran 3 XFI cards in 3 seperate SLI setups ive built for people. i dont install all the software just the basics, all have worked flawlessly. Great sound card IMO especially when hooked up to creative gigaworks 7:1 speakers.

also judas has stated in this thread to put the master card in the lower slot. this varies from motherboard to motherboard so consult your manual, dont just blindly do it - ive recently built a crossfire X1900 system with an asus A8N32 SLI deluxe and its master in top. this is something different manufacturers change per mobo.
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Old May 22, 2006, 12:22 AM   #119
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I'm awaiting OCZ to produce a 4x12rail modstream PSU...probably going to need a minimum of 750 watts to be safe.
OCZ have produced a 700w gamerxtream PSU, with 4x12v rails, and it has handled load on a X1900 crossfire system overclocked on water to the limits as well as a watercooled Dual core intel chip to 5ghz with 2 gig of ram, 2 optical drives and 4 hard drives with numerous case fans and lights. the figure of "750w" is meaningless most times with many people thinking "the higher the better" which is frequently not the case, its the amps on the 12v rail you need to be primarily concerned about with crossfire as well as the overall quality of the PSU.
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Old May 22, 2006, 07:01 AM   #120
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Interesting, ive ran 3 XFI cards in 3 seperate SLI setups ive built for people. i dont install all the software just the basics, all have worked flawlessly. Great sound card IMO especially when hooked up to creative gigaworks 7:1 speakers.

also judas has stated in this thread to put the master card in the lower slot. this varies from motherboard to motherboard so consult your manual, dont just blindly do it - ive recently built a crossfire X1900 system with an asus A8N32 SLI deluxe and its master in top. this is something different manufacturers change per mobo.
Blindly do it? mate, i didnt had anything left to try, i bought new mobo, RMAed Asus CF, bought new PSU, new LCD, got His Mastercard and its the same! only option is to run it over DVI-DSUB but then picture is not so sharp and i see some waving on background. But at work i got no shaking on Intel mobo, with just one PCIEx slot, i tried to increase or decrease voltage in BIOS for SB, PCIE, NB, nothing happened. So only DVI-SUB or decreasing voltage to 1.35V on GPU or increase to 1.525V helps too, but still it randomly shaking.
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