jeckson

Hello everybody,
I'm tired of searching a solution for my problem, so I decided to ask your help.
My Sapphire x1650 pro 256MB (500/800) AGP simple don't work correctly with 3D games.
I tried a lot of drivers, with the newest (8.9), I have some seconds of gamming before the game crashes. I tried some older drivers too, like 7.9, 7.7, and the Omega drivers (7.12(?)).
With the newest drivers I couldn't run the 3DMARK05, my PC reboots when the bench starts. with the oldest the bench runs and well, but the games not.
Some things that I've already tried:
*Some older drivers
*Change AGP 8X to 4X
*Turn up the aperture size(256MB)
*Change the fan configs (it's running at 100% in 50ºC)
*Update my BIOS
*Update my chipset drivers
*Using a dedicated wire from my PSU to my videoboard


The games I tried:
*SPORE: Stop running in the first seconds of gameplay.
*LOTR Battle for middle earth: Stop running too.
*Red alert 2: Wanted to try an older game, it works well.

Somethings that I still want to give a try:
*Install really old drivers (I tried to install the 6.9 one, but I couldn't. I haven't tried hard yet though).
*Format my system (Again) and install the newest drivers of my chipset.
*Anything that you suggest ;D

I don't think it's a problem in the board, because there's a lot of people having problems with ATI boards with AGP.
My PSU is ok, it has 2 12V (16A each) lines.
Maybe a incompability with my chipset... I hope not.
My system:
Abit NF7-S2 (nforce 2 ultra)
1,5GB RAM (Markvision)
Athlon XP 2600+
2 HDs IDE (7200rpm, +-5000rpm)
DVDRW
Shapphire x1650 pro 256MB AGP
PSU 500W
OS: Windows XP SP3


Please, help me! It's driving me mad

diz_guy

hi, welcome to driverheaven forums, i'll try to help you with your cause, but first i need to ask a few questions. what is happening when it stops running? freezing? bsod? do they ever just randomly restart?
you say your psu is "okay", what brand is it? i have a sapphire agp x1650 pro 512mb as of now, i had to get a new power supply because my computer kept restarting, especially when apps were being loaded/loading. i would also like to know what's going on with the voltages on the railings.

i'm not sure if this would help but i got riva tuner and changed to fan speed to constant 100%. this dropped my gpu temps about 10C-20C. this also increased my framerates and made my fps more stable. the best drivers i've used so far that work best with the sapphire x1650 pro, i would say are the latest omega drivers.

however, if you do figure out if it is the power supply causing problems and decide to buy a new one, just to let ya know, i bought a corsair vx550, and there are many many reasons why i chose this over all the other power supplies. let's just say i did a lot of research on power supplies.

you may also refer to this thread (on another forum):
[SOLVED] reboots/freezing 400wpsu - Tech Support Forum

Dyre Straits

Please do not take this as 'gospel' because I can't find the absolute AMP requirements for that particular card. However, based on your statement:
My educated guess would be that 16A is NOT enough. In most cases you'll need between 25-30 AMP. The voltage is NOT the main concern...it's the AMP rating of the PSU on the +12V rail/s.

It just sounds to me like the card isn't getting enough power under load.

Good luck!

__________________

jeckson

Thanks people
@diz_guy
When playing, the most commun is the game crash. But in a bench my PC reboots. (Using Catalyst 8.9, with Omega drivers the bench works).
My PSU is a C3Tech (maybe you don't know, I think it's a national branch).
But yeah, maybe the problem is the PSU.
Now Aswering both (diz_guy and Dyre Straits), I thought that the AMP is summed when you have 2 12V lines (in my case 12V1 and 12V2), but no, it isn't this way.
I'll try to find out the real AMP of my PSU, I'll let you know about my progress.
Later I will catch the voltages with ati tray tools and post here.
Thank you again.

jeckson

Ok, I installed manually the latest Omega driver and tested the 3DMARK05, for the first time a had a crash with the bench...
Well, this is the voltage while the bench was running:

and here goes a picture of the label of my PSU, unformtunatly I couldn't find out how much AMP it really has in 12V rail (There's no information about the total W in 12V =/).



I tried to install the 6.8/6.9/6.11 drivers but I couldn't. I think it doesn't have my card in the .inf file. The strange is some people use this drivers, as you can see in these posts:
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/ati-grap...-problems.html
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/ati-grap...-x1650pro.html

Do you how how to install it?
Thanks again!

Dyre Straits

The PSU Label tells you what the total AMPs are. That's what the 16A is all about. That's 16 AMPS. You won't want to actually test for Amperage. For the 12V rail, for that card, that figure should be reading at least 25A. Wattage is not your concern as much as the total A(mps) on the PSU for that 12V rail.

Also, you need to make sure that the video card is the ONLY device being powered off the 12V trunk. Don't be using any "Y" connectors to power any other device/s.

__________________

jeckson

I still have some doubts if the problems is the PSU.
I've seen some people using this same PSU with better configs then mine (like dual cores and geforces 8XXXGT)
And I read the AMP calc is made with the max output load combined in the 12V rails. It's Amp = MaxW/12V. But I couldn't find the max Wattage in the 12V rails of my PSU =/
Anyway. I'll try to fix this problem in the weekend using other drivers, than if it don't work, I'll try to change my PSU (I recently bought it, hope I can just change it =P).
If you have any suggestions for me related to drivers, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks

sammorris

The amps on the PSU are ample, you can probably run an HD4870 off that unit which uses triple the power. However, it may not necessarily be producing STABLE power which is where it matters. That graph suggests that it does, but it no guarantee.
Have you confirmed it is actually the graphics card at fault and not an overheating or unstable CPU/RAM/Motherboard?

__________________
Speakers: Logitech Z-2300 & Philips MC-70 [homebrew surround via ATEN CS1782 KVAM] for HTPC.
Logitech Z-5500 for gaming PC.
I/O: Razer Diamondback Magma, MS Intellimouse Optical, MS Sidewinder X6, Saitek Eclipse II, Pertelian X2040 USB Display
DVD: As little as Possible (LG GH20NS15)
Networking: Netgear GS105, GS605, GS608, WRN2000, Linksys WRT54GL [Tomato], DrayTek Vigor 120, yards of CAT6

jeckson

@sammorris
I don't think it's an overheating problem, the graphs shows you the temps too (unfortunatly I don't know witch temp is from CPU, GPU, MB...) and they all seem to be OK.
I tested my memory with memtest and they don't have errors.
Have got any suggestions in how could I test the CPU/MB?
Thanks

Dyre Straits

I stand by my statement that 16A is not enough for the card when you're running it under load. The issue of AMPs vs. WATTS has become quite important. And, many of the 'cheaper' PSUs are really not up to par when it comes to providing the rated amperage.

Here's another link to another discussion about this very topic on a different forum:

Video card 12v rail amps question. [Archive] - techPowerUp! Forums

__________________

diz_guy

how old the psu? the age of the psu may be a factor.
oh and this is how i got the 6.5 drivers (if i remember correctly)

but in my personal experience, random pc reboots were due to unstable amps on the 12v rail. did some testing and i unplugged one my hard drives and voila. maybe you should try this. bsod were from ram issues. pc freezes were from overheating and sometimes the psu.

jeckson

Hello guys,
yesterday I formatted my HD and reinstalled windows XP with the latest chipset drivers and Omega Drivers (7.12 I think).
I managed to play a whole skirmish in LOTR battle for middle earth without a reboot or game crash
But I'm not sure if everything is ok. I'll try other games today.
I noticed some big lags (witch scared me, I thought the game would crash), but they were rare and maybe fault of the rest of my system (the game is installed in that old 5400rpm HD).

@diz_guy
I couldn't install that 6.5 driver, it doesn't have my card in the .inf file. I don't know how some people(including you ) managed to install this version with the x1650 video boards.

@Dyre Straits
I agree that the problem could be my PSU, but I monitored the 12V rails and they seem ok. I'll try to monitor they for a bigger time.

I'll let you know my success (or fail...)

drperry

12x16=192 watts...
I'd make sure that the video card is the ONLY thing on one of those rails... Find out which one your CPU and motherboard get, since it looks like you have different colored wires for different rails, and connect everything BUT the video card to that same rail...

Also, that 16 amp rating is it's PEAK power rating... The average rating is usually 70% of that...
That's an optimistic rating of 11.2 amps per rail...

You theoretically SHOULD be able to run it... But it HAS to be on its own rail...

I used to have an x1650 pro on PCI-E and it had NO extra power plug... Which means it only pulled 75 watts...

Double check and make sure all your power plugs are properly seated as well...

jeckson

Hi everybody. Thank you for the answers and sorry for not posting anything before. I have tried some other games after Windows reinstalation and they worked fine. Spore still crashes, so maybe it's a game bug with something in system... I'm I little busy this days, but I'll try to play this game in the worst settings(demmanding less from the video card) and see if it works. And yes, I'm still considering the PSU problem.

jeckson

Oh hi again. Sorry but I had to "ressurect" this thread to tell you that I have finally solved my problem.
Yes, most of you were rigth, the problem was my PSU. Now that I'm on vacation I decided to finish with this headache, I bought a Corsair TX650W and I must say that it's a MARVELOUS PSU, although it was very expensive (especially here in my country). The moment I installed it all my problems were gone =D
I was able to install the last catalyst oficial driver and run 3DMark and play games like Red Alert 3 in medium!
Yes, thanks to you guys!

kman225

my experience is it's usually power, unless it's really not compatible with your motherboard which is highly unlikely, get the power fixed or test it in another pc with the higher power range...