All games crash to desktop (Club3D Radeon 9800 Pro)

jepf999 · Dec 8, 2003, 12:27 AM

Hi!

Every game i tried on my new system (see below) gets back to desktop after some time of playing without a message. Windows doesn't crash after that. This problem occurs only while running a game.

At first i though it was a heat related problem, but it's not (bought new case for better cooling).

I tested the system with an older graphicscard (Geforce 2) and it seems to run just fine.

My system:
Athlon XP 3000+, FSB 400
ASUS A7N8X Deluxe Rev. 2.0 (nforce 2 Ultra 400, BIOS Rev. 1007)
2 * 512 MB Kingston ValueRAM DDR400 (CL 2,5, Dualchannel)
Club3D Radeon 9800 Pro, 128 MB, with Zalman-Cooling (same problem before i upgraded the cooling), Catalyst 3.9 with Call of duty-Fix
Soundblaster Live Player 5.1
Adaptec AHA 2940 SCSI Adapter (for scanner)
WinTV PCI (TV-Card)
Windows XP Home Edition (all updates installed)
2 * IDE-HDD, both UDMA5
2 * IDE optical drives (DVD and CDRW, UDMA2)
Power supply: Enermax EG351P-V, 330W

All of these components (except memory, graphicscard, mainboard and cpu) were part of an older system which ran perfectly for the last three years (Athlon Thunderbird 1,1 GHz, 512 MB SDRAM, Geforce2 GTS, Abit KT7).

I'm trying to find a solution for two weeks now. I don't have any idea what to try next.
My last "hope" is the power supply. I compared it to newer models and found out, that my power supply only has 12 A on +12V. Newer models have > 20 A on +12V. Could this be the problem (because the graphics card uses a 12V-connector)?

Thank you for any hint

sorry for my english.

mkk · Dec 8, 2003, 03:05 AM

Yes the power supply may be a bit on the weak side. And actually the motherboard design isn't helping either. If I remember correctly this power supply is too old a model to have the extra square 4pin +12V connector that well designed motherboards of today can use to ease the system power load distribution in between different voltage levels. But even if it did have it then unfortunately that motherboard don't. While it's not an absolute requirement of a system to use that connector, its absense does in practice increase the capacity demand on the powersupply.

So yes you might have to get a new powersupply, and when using that motherboard with such a fast CPU you should get a really good one. I would consider an Antec TruPower for their being extra well designed to handle load on the +3.3V and +5V levels, wich your system need more of because of the motherboard lacking that extra +12V connector. The Antec TruPower 380W should be enough, but if you have the budget then go for something even better. And remember that a higher total wattage of some budget brand may not mean that it's better. For instance the now popular QTec 550W is not necessarily better than a "quality brand" 380W.

In the meantime, underclocking the CPU a bit might help. Like trying 166MHz FSB instead of the standard 200, or even lower. Could be worth a try for now.

kinetic · Dec 8, 2003, 08:43 AM

It could be your PSU but it could also be a faulty stick of memory. You could try taking a stick out and try that. It could also be a refresh rate problem!You could try refreshfix, get it here if you want to try it!

ExitiosuS · Dec 8, 2003, 08:55 AM

I'm with you guys on the PSU problem...
To my understanding, the card alone requires a ton of power.

Not to mention the AMD Processor, etc. :P

jepf999 · Dec 9, 2003, 04:22 PM

Thank you for the replies.

I've ordered a new psu (Cooltek TruePower, 430W, it's nearly identical to the psus from Antec).
Hope it helps, i'll let you know.

Vistrix · Dec 9, 2003, 05:15 PM

Ive got very similar specs to you and i had the EXACT same problem...I couldnt find the solution but instead I reset my Bios settings to fail-safe defaults (last resort...) and it fixed it completely. It was probably one of the AGP options but im not experienced in these so i had to reset the whole thing.

jepf999 · Dec 12, 2003, 12:37 AM

Just to let you know:
The new psu did not solve the problem.

I will try to get another graphicscard in turn for the radeon (and something tells me, it won't be one with ATI-chipset).

mkk · Dec 12, 2003, 01:40 AM

I should have mentioned earlier that a common reason for "crash to desktop" symptoms is related to RAM. Ease off the timings (BIOS) for instance and see if that helps.

jepf999 · Dec 12, 2003, 10:08 PM

After a lot of testing, i now know what causes the problem (thank you for giving the hint to try slower memory-settings). It's the memory:

When i place only one memory-module in the board - everything works fine - without one crash or blue screen. It doesn't matter, which of both i use - they both work without problems.

When i use both modules together i have to slow down memory-frequency from 200 to 166 MHz (slower CL-settings don't work).

Question is: What should i do now? I paid for 200 MHz memory, so i don't want to use it at 166 MHz, just because the mainboard doesn't know how to handle both modules.

Highwood · Dec 13, 2003, 12:09 AM

I’ve noticed quite few people seem to be having this problem with ATI 9700/9800 cards and Nforce 2 chip sets, when running a 333 fsb processor and dual channel memory.

The solution for this problem is to go into the bios, open “Advanced chipset features “ make sure the setting for “Memory Frequency” is NOT set to Auto, try setting it to by SPD if that doesn’t work change it to 120% (for 400mhz memory).

Dec 8, 2003, 12:27 AM	#1
jepf999 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0	All games crash to desktop (Club3D Radeon 9800 Pro) Hi! Every game i tried on my new system (see below) gets back to desktop after some time of playing without a message. Windows doesn't crash after that. This problem occurs only while running a game. At first i though it was a heat related problem, but it's not (bought new case for better cooling). I tested the system with an older graphicscard (Geforce 2) and it seems to run just fine. My system: Athlon XP 3000+, FSB 400 ASUS A7N8X Deluxe Rev. 2.0 (nforce 2 Ultra 400, BIOS Rev. 1007) 2 * 512 MB Kingston ValueRAM DDR400 (CL 2,5, Dualchannel) Club3D Radeon 9800 Pro, 128 MB, with Zalman-Cooling (same problem before i upgraded the cooling), Catalyst 3.9 with Call of duty-Fix Soundblaster Live Player 5.1 Adaptec AHA 2940 SCSI Adapter (for scanner) WinTV PCI (TV-Card) Windows XP Home Edition (all updates installed) 2 * IDE-HDD, both UDMA5 2 * IDE optical drives (DVD and CDRW, UDMA2) Power supply: Enermax EG351P-V, 330W All of these components (except memory, graphicscard, mainboard and cpu) were part of an older system which ran perfectly for the last three years (Athlon Thunderbird 1,1 GHz, 512 MB SDRAM, Geforce2 GTS, Abit KT7). I'm trying to find a solution for two weeks now. I don't have any idea what to try next. My last "hope" is the power supply. I compared it to newer models and found out, that my power supply only has 12 A on +12V. Newer models have > 20 A on +12V. Could this be the problem (because the graphics card uses a 12V-connector)? Thank you for any hint sorry for my english.

Dec 8, 2003, 03:05 AM	#2
mkk Cthulhu/Dagon 2012 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gefle, Sweden Posts: 4,375 Rep Power: 120 System Specs	Yes the power supply may be a bit on the weak side. And actually the motherboard design isn't helping either. If I remember correctly this power supply is too old a model to have the extra square 4pin +12V connector that well designed motherboards of today can use to ease the system power load distribution in between different voltage levels. But even if it did have it then unfortunately that motherboard don't. While it's not an absolute requirement of a system to use that connector, its absense does in practice increase the capacity demand on the powersupply. So yes you might have to get a new powersupply, and when using that motherboard with such a fast CPU you should get a really good one. I would consider an Antec TruPower for their being extra well designed to handle load on the +3.3V and +5V levels, wich your system need more of because of the motherboard lacking that extra +12V connector. The Antec TruPower 380W should be enough, but if you have the budget then go for something even better. And remember that a higher total wattage of some budget brand may not mean that it's better. For instance the now popular QTec 550W is not necessarily better than a "quality brand" 380W. In the meantime, underclocking the CPU a bit might help. Like trying 166MHz FSB instead of the standard 200, or even lower. Could be worth a try for now. Last edited by mkk; Dec 8, 2003 at 03:11 AM.

Dec 8, 2003, 08:43 AM	#3
kinetic DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Manchester England Posts: 2,559 Rep Power: 0	It could be your PSU but it could also be a faulty stick of memory. You could try taking a stick out and try that. It could also be a refresh rate problem!You could try refreshfix, get it here if you want to try it!

Dec 8, 2003, 08:55 AM	#4
ExitiosuS Simian Masterpiece! Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London, Ont. Canada Posts: 358 Rep Power: 59 System Specs	I'm with you guys on the PSU problem... To my understanding, the card alone requires a ton of power. Not to mention the AMD Processor, etc. :P

Dec 9, 2003, 04:22 PM	Thread Starter #5
jepf999 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0	Thank you for the replies. I've ordered a new psu (Cooltek TruePower, 430W, it's nearly identical to the psus from Antec). Hope it helps, i'll let you know.

Dec 9, 2003, 05:15 PM	#6
Vistrix DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 18 Rep Power: 0	Ive got very similar specs to you and i had the EXACT same problem...I couldnt find the solution but instead I reset my Bios settings to fail-safe defaults (last resort...) and it fixed it completely. It was probably one of the AGP options but im not experienced in these so i had to reset the whole thing.

Dec 12, 2003, 12:37 AM	Thread Starter #7
jepf999 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0	Just to let you know: The new psu did not solve the problem. I will try to get another graphicscard in turn for the radeon (and something tells me, it won't be one with ATI-chipset).

Dec 12, 2003, 01:40 AM	#8
mkk Cthulhu/Dagon 2012 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gefle, Sweden Posts: 4,375 Rep Power: 120 System Specs	I should have mentioned earlier that a common reason for "crash to desktop" symptoms is related to RAM. Ease off the timings (BIOS) for instance and see if that helps.

Dec 12, 2003, 10:08 PM	Thread Starter #9
jepf999 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0	After a lot of testing, i now know what causes the problem (thank you for giving the hint to try slower memory-settings). It's the memory: When i place only one memory-module in the board - everything works fine - without one crash or blue screen. It doesn't matter, which of both i use - they both work without problems. When i use both modules together i have to slow down memory-frequency from 200 to 166 MHz (slower CL-settings don't work). Question is: What should i do now? I paid for 200 MHz memory, so i don't want to use it at 166 MHz, just because the mainboard doesn't know how to handle both modules.

Dec 13, 2003, 12:09 AM	#10
Highwood Comfortably Numb Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calgary Alberta Canada Posts: 504 Rep Power: 0	I’ve noticed quite few people seem to be having this problem with ATI 9700/9800 cards and Nforce 2 chip sets, when running a 333 fsb processor and dual channel memory. The solution for this problem is to go into the bios, open “Advanced chipset features “ make sure the setting for “Memory Frequency” is NOT set to Auto, try setting it to by SPD if that doesn’t work change it to 120% (for 400mhz memory).