HardwareHeaven.com

HardwareHeaven.com

Looking for the skin chooser?
 
 
  • Home

  • Hardware reviews

  • Articles

  • News

  • Tools

  • Gaming at HardwareHeaven

  • Forums

 

Go Back   HardwareHeaven.com > Forums > Graphics Cards > AMD Graphics Cards


AMD Graphics Cards Discuss everything that is Radeon!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Jan 22, 2004, 11:30 PM   #1
DriverHeaven Senior Member
 
wolfran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 414
Rep Power: 0
wolfran is on a distinguished road

What's the ATI's recommended agp aperture size???

Hi people,

I have been doing some testing with agp aperture size set to 64mb, 128mb, and 256mb. Basically 128 and 256mb gives me almost the same results in benchmarks (like 3dmark2001se and aquamark3). The 64mb gives a bit lower result. The main question though, is lowering the agp aperture size to 64 mb say gives smoother gameplay than 128 mb / 256mb. I mean I can tolerate a very small average fps loss for a smoother gameplay.


EDIT: This is by the way an ATI card, I think the catalyst maker should know their recommendation on the agp aperture size. At least they should know what they use the most for their testings. It would be great if the catalyst maker could share this information because agp aperture size does affect gameplay.
wolfran is offline   Reply With Quote


Old Jan 23, 2004, 12:19 AM   #2
mkk
HardwareHeaven Extreme Member
 
mkk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,298
Rep Power: 310
mkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his status
System Specs

I suggest leaving it at the default value of the motherboard BIOS, wich is typically either 128 or 256 these days. You shouldn't worrry about differences in 3DMark2001 when it comes to the aperture either, because it runs some tests using the AGP aperture for texturing, wich is a feature that games typically never not uses. Simply because using RAM for texturing through the AGP bus is so much slower than limiting the texture sizes to what can be fit inside the graphics card memory. Wich makes that type of testing totally uninteresting for a gaming benchmark. Compare with actual games and you won't see any difference at all between 128 or 256MB AGP aperture. Using very low values can lead to odd things happening on some systems, like 3D effectively being turned off. So just leave it at motherboard default and be happy. Make some time to uninstall 3DMark instead.
mkk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2004, 02:24 AM   #3
HardwareHeaven Extreme Member
 
The_Neon_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Bloomington, Indiana, United States
Posts: 16,054
Rep Power: 138
The_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seen
System Specs

use 128
__________________
The_Neon_Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2004, 03:16 AM   #4
HardwareHeaven Extreme Member
 
swimtech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,993
Rep Power: 148
swimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refute
System Specs

I think I remember recently reading that it is good to set the aperture size to your card's ram size for 64M and above cards of late. Can't remember why tho... I'll look some for the reason soon as I can.
swimtech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2004, 03:54 AM   #5
Styleless Wonder
 
No_Style's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 6,027
Rep Power: 0
No_Style is on a distinguished road

RojakPot

Check that site out. It has a lot of info on stuff like this. I used to use 128 MB, but I've changed it to 64 MB and Disabled Fast Writes. I'm finding my RTCW much smoother~..
__________________
"The Best Style Is No Style"
Specifications Here

No_Style is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2004, 08:11 AM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #6
DriverHeaven Senior Member
 
wolfran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 414
Rep Power: 0
wolfran is on a distinguished road

Re: RojakPot

Quote:
Originally posted by No_Style
Check that site out. It has a lot of info on stuff like this. I used to use 128 MB, but I've changed it to 64 MB and Disabled Fast Writes. I'm finding my RTCW much smoother~..
I was using 128MB for a long time and someone here (crash override I think) mentioned about using 64MB for smoother gameplay. So I give it a try. After benching with 3dmark2001se and aquamark3, I found that with 64MB I lost around 100 points in 3dmark2001se while gaining a little in aquamark3. As mkk mentioned, I probably should ignore the 3dmark2001se score.

I also feel that games (on jedi academy) are a bit smoother with the 64 MB. Not too sure here but it seems No_style agreed. I'll try on some other games as well. Maybe someone else can give it a try as well and give their feedbacks.
wolfran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2004, 09:12 AM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #7
DriverHeaven Senior Member
 
wolfran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 414
Rep Power: 0
wolfran is on a distinguished road

Quote:
Originally posted by Beat
I have graphics card with 256 and i set in bios 256 :| it's ok?
I don't think anyone knows the definite answer yet but what I found is that if I use 256MB I get a little hitchup (sudden slow down and back up again) in some games. If you don't have any hitchups, I think leave it as it is. Otherwise try 128MB and 64 MB and compare them in games.
wolfran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2004, 10:01 AM   #8
HardwareHeaven Extreme Member
 
The_Neon_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Bloomington, Indiana, United States
Posts: 16,054
Rep Power: 138
The_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seenThe_Neon_Cowboy has a divinity and aura the likes we have never seen
System Specs

Quote:
Originally posted by wolfran
I don't think anyone knows the definite answer yet but what I found is that if I use 256MB I get a little hitchup (sudden slow down and back up again) in some games. If you don't have any hitchups, I think leave it as it is. Otherwise try 128MB and 64 MB and compare them in games.
I do, to answer you must understand what that seting controls.
(the best/most common setting is 128 )

http://www.pc-extreme.com/artikel/tuning/agp/index.html check these benches its in german but the charts are readable....
__________________
The_Neon_Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2004, 01:26 PM   #9
HardwareHeaven Extreme Member
 
swimtech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,993
Rep Power: 148
swimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refuteswimtech has a reputation beyond refute
System Specs

I can't understand the German, but the charts speak for themselves. Interesting...
swimtech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2004, 02:30 PM   #10
Styleless Wonder
 
No_Style's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 6,027
Rep Power: 0
No_Style is on a distinguished road

Quote:
Originally posted by Beat
I have graphics card with 256 and i set in bios 256 :| it's ok?
Don't mean to be a spoil sport, but isn't that signature pic a little over the PG13 mark?

@ it though!
__________________
"The Best Style Is No Style"
Specifications Here

No_Style is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2004, 02:34 PM   #11
Styleless Wonder
 
No_Style's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 6,027
Rep Power: 0
No_Style is on a distinguished road

Re: Re: RojakPot

Quote:
Originally posted by wolfran
I was using 128MB for a long time and someone here (crash override I think) mentioned about using 64MB for smoother gameplay. So I give it a try. After benching with 3dmark2001se and aquamark3, I found that with 64MB I lost around 100 points in 3dmark2001se while gaining a little in aquamark3. As mkk mentioned, I probably should ignore the 3dmark2001se score.

I also feel that games (on jedi academy) are a bit smoother with the 64 MB. Not too sure here but it seems No_style agreed. I'll try on some other games as well. Maybe someone else can give it a try as well and give their feedbacks.

Yeah... Screw 3DMark? I haven't benchmarked using 3DMark in ages. When people ask me my 3DMark, I just give them an estimate of 155XX +/- 100 Marks. Which is accurate in my book. PCMark2002 on the hand, I care about more. (Just CPU and Memory bench)
__________________
"The Best Style Is No Style"
Specifications Here

No_Style is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2004, 02:37 PM   #12
Styleless Wonder
 
No_Style's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 6,027
Rep Power: 0
No_Style is on a distinguished road

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Neon_Cowboy
I do, to answer you must understand what that seting controls.
(the best/most common setting is 128 )

http://www.pc-extreme.com/artikel/tuning/agp/index.html check these benches its in german but the charts are readable....
Yes, that's true. Most common setting people "recommend" is 128 MB, but mobos have a lot default of 64 MB. My P4PE and P4P800 Deluxe, both Default 64 MB, I've set them both at that now. It's a good move if you want smooth gameplay. FPS is life, but what's FPS with it jumping all over the place? (Just from my experiences)
__________________
"The Best Style Is No Style"
Specifications Here

No_Style is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2004, 03:05 PM   #13
Banned
 
Crash Override's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 2,448
Rep Power: 0
Crash Override is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:
Originally posted by No_Style
Yes, that's true. Most common setting people "recommend" is 128 MB, but mobos have a lot default of 64 MB. My P4PE and P4P800 Deluxe, both Default 64 MB, I've set them both at that now. It's a good move if you want smooth gameplay. FPS is life, but what's FPS with it jumping all over the place? (Just from my experiences)
thats why mines set to 64MB

even though the average frames are slightly lower they are also more stable

I dont get huge frame jumps with the lower Aperature setting.

However at higher ones while I get better scores it tends to jump

I smell a new article possibility here if I get the time :P
Crash Override is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2004, 03:18 PM   #14
Styleless Wonder
 
No_Style's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 6,027
Rep Power: 0
No_Style is on a distinguished road

Quote:
Originally posted by Crash Override
thats why mines set to 64MB

even though the average frames are slightly lower they are also more stable

I dont get huge frame jumps with the lower Aperature setting.

However at higher ones while I get better scores it tends to jump

I smell a new article possibility here if I get the time :P
Go for it.
__________________
"The Best Style Is No Style"
Specifications Here

No_Style is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2004, 09:56 PM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #15
DriverHeaven Senior Member
 
wolfran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 414
Rep Power: 0
wolfran is on a distinguished road

Quote:
Originally posted by No_Style
Yes, that's true. Most common setting people "recommend" is 128 MB, but mobos have a lot default of 64 MB. My P4PE and P4P800 Deluxe, both Default 64 MB, I've set them both at that now. It's a good move if you want smooth gameplay. FPS is life, but what's FPS with it jumping all over the place? (Just from my experiences)
So what does the setting control?? I thought that it reserves some of the main memory only for video card but if needed by the os, it can claim those memories. I am not sure though so someone can correct me.

Hmm.....I think ATI should give their recommendation on agp aperture size. I believe that they said that they did a lot of testings on each of the card so they should know what is the recommended agp aperture size. At least they should know what aperture size that they use for their testings. Then we all know that this aperture size is the best one for ATI card because it's the one that has been throughly tested with.
wolfran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2004, 12:24 AM   #16
mkk
HardwareHeaven Extreme Member
 
mkk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,298
Rep Power: 310
mkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his status
System Specs

Quote:
Originally posted by wolfran
So what does the setting control?? I thought that it reserves some of the main memory only for video card but if needed by the os, it can claim those memories.
It does not actually reserve any amount of RAM, but sets a maximum limit to how much RAM could be used.

I do not think that an official recommendation is necessary, since the default values work fine with games. It is really a non-issue as far as real world applications goes. The behavior of certain benchmarking suites is evidently a separate story. That people care too much about the numerical results in those benchmarks is a problem in itself.
mkk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2004, 01:23 AM   #17
Banned
 
Crash Override's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 2,448
Rep Power: 0
Crash Override is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:
Originally posted by mkk
It does not actually reserve any amount of RAM, but sets a maximum limit to how much RAM could be used.

I do not think that an official recommendation is necessary, since the default values work fine with games. It is really a non-issue as far as real world applications goes. The behavior of certain benchmarking suites is evidently a separate story. That people care too much about the numerical results in those benchmarks is a problem in itself.
ahem evidently you didnt read the posts very carefuly

What we have said is that while increasing the aperature may increase our benchmark scores it tends to make frame rates in games jump which is what causes the famous stutter experienced in games
Crash Override is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2004, 04:01 AM   #18
mkk
HardwareHeaven Extreme Member
 
mkk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,298
Rep Power: 310
mkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his statusmkk is godlike in his status
System Specs

I chose to ignore it because I didn't think there is anything to it, but meant no disrespect in doing so. By all means, carry out an investigation and see if you can find a couple of situations where stuttering in a game is reproduceably related to having the AGP aperture size set on the default value of a certain motherboard. I'm sure that many would be eager to compare results on their systems to help out in the investigation.
Go for it.

Last edited by mkk; Jan 24, 2004 at 04:08 AM.
mkk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2004, 08:01 AM   #19
Obvious Closet Brony Pony
 
Judas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: 100 miles from anywhere
Posts: 34,547
Rep Power: 432
Judas is godlike in his statusJudas is godlike in his statusJudas is godlike in his statusJudas is godlike in his statusJudas is godlike in his statusJudas is godlike in his statusJudas is godlike in his statusJudas is godlike in his statusJudas is godlike in his statusJudas is godlike in his statusJudas is godlike in his status
System Specs

Gold Member
.....i've found it smoother to play at 256mb apature.... but i should give 4mb up to 1gb apatures a try.... (if i have 2gb of ram... i'd give teh 1.5 and 2gb apatures to...)
__________________
Quote:
I accidently my Reputation
Judas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 26, 2004, 12:07 AM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #20
DriverHeaven Senior Member
 
wolfran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 414
Rep Power: 0
wolfran is on a distinguished road

Quote:
Originally posted by Judas
.....i've found it smoother to play at 256mb apature.... but i should give 4mb up to 1gb apatures a try.... (if i have 2gb of ram... i'd give teh 1.5 and 2gb apatures to...)
Hmm.....I've also been testing agp aperture size with need for speed underground. I noticed that if I use 256MB in this game, I get a smoother gameplay. This one is definite. You all can try it in the atlantica circuit. Then try to run over a water and making a splash. With 128 and 64 MB, I get stuttering but with 256MB it's much smoother.

It seems that the best aperture size depends on the game. Some games runs smoother with low aperture size and some smoother with higher aperture size.


EDIT: Try it with AA/AF set to 4x/8x (Quality)

Last edited by wolfran; Jan 26, 2004 at 12:14 AM.
wolfran is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools