sireric

I'm not 100% sure. But I believe there is a PCI spec that requires boards to be mounted towards that direction -- Away from CPU/NB/Memory. Thermally, even though "hot air rises", the main heat conductor is the heatsink, and it will draw the heat away, regardless of gravity.

CJintheUK

I'm not sure what happenedto my 9700, one minute I was playing MoHAA just fine, the next the screen was filled by vertical bands and FPS drop down to the speed of a flicker book.

The fan still worked, and I regularly dusted it off.

If it was a board failure, it was timed perfectly, as it failed a couple months after the warranty ran out.
It's no biggy really, I was almost ready to upgrade my system anyway, all new and an x800 card to boot.

Well I got 90% of my new system, and just waiting for funds to get the x800 card now.

SeraphicSorcerer

However, then you have to think wait, where's the heat gonna go off the heatsink, it's just blowing it where? Right back onto the board... Right to the connectors for the heatsink as BWX Said Dislodging the heatsink or the heat spreading on the underside of the PCB and therefore possibly damaging ram chips, The core may be able to take 60-100C but try and give the ram on that board even a hint of that kinda temperature and you'll have issues, I mean sure they all come with heatsinks now, but Seriously that PCI spec you talk about is from the 80s, and things are only looking hotter from here, if they flip it now, things will be fine.... Besides all that "hot air" that rises will cause an even quicker convection(right word?) making the cooler air travel even faster creating more circulation kinda likwe a wind effect..... anyhow most people especially on thos forum probly have a exhaust fan or 2. (I'd hope) But right now the heat barely has anywhere to go, and those pci coolers BARELY work.......... I agree with BWX Flip em, work out the small issues later this is the age where PCI express can allow us to change the mistakes of the 80s.

In reply to TipstaffThose problems aren't problems cuz the only part that you really need to worry about being right side up is that metal piece that with the inputs and outputs, the wafer... board itself.... vpu could all be manufacturered pretty much the same way, and just the mount would be a bit diffrent. as for fighting over air that's what I'm saying AIR HAS TO BE THERE there is a CONSTANT PRESSURE OF AIR everywhere on this planet..... at "this" altitude, AIR HAS TO RUSH IN WHEN "hot air" rises out, that's what causes our weather patterns... and such the all powerful wind/air currents..... So... see the air would be getting out of the way creating that circulation I'm talking about possibly keeping things cooler, all things aise though, As my original point was, It allows all the air to get off the heatsink, and as BWX mentioned, Gravity would now be working for the heatsink creating slightly better contact........

Hope that all made sense, it's still a bit early for me over here.

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Rasta Monsta

Erm, there is not constant pressure everywhere. . .air being sucked through a fan creates vacuum (less pressure) on the intake side, and greater pressure on the outlet side. . .if atmospheric pressure was enough to cool our CPU/GPU, we wouldn't need fans!



In fact, people have actually experienced the "battle of the fans" problem by mounting an exhaust slot fan right under the GPU. . .due to the vaccum created by the slot fan, the wimpy GPU fan couldn't scavenge enough air to function properly, and they experienced overheating and lockups.

I know it ain't "space/time quantum mechanics," but. . .

rasta

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mike2h

i beleive you. it is just my personal experience is completley the opposite. i mounted one of those pci fans under my g4 & got an extra 5hz from core & 7 for mem. i know that is not that much, but the fan did make a pos difference. for me.

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Rasta Monsta

Hmm, did your G4 fan suck or blow?

Anyway, the theory for a properly functioning case is that cool air comes in the front to replace hot air coming off your components, which is pumped out the back. That's what takes heat away, not the gravity of hot air rising. . .

rasta

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SeraphicSorcerer

That's the whole point of a fan, to force pressure on the opposite side, it's just moving the air, and the air behind it HAS TO MOVE FASTER to make up for the "vacuum" you keep mentioning Air Constantly has to flow, it's like when lightning strikes man, Thunder... which is cold air trying to rush in where the 50,000 degree air just got the hell out there may be a MOMENTARY vacuum, but only because lighting(ions) Displaced the air.... The air rushes fast as hell and collides so hard that you get the "boom" It's not a vacuum air HAS TO BE THERE, you can still breath in the wind can't you? which is exacvtly my point... these heatsinks... fans will still be able to breath.... I mean it's not like we're putting 2 fans back to back......... Then it's still not a vacuum it's a fight for air current

It made a diffrence for him..... it'd made a diffrence for most people it's just my opionion that it's not enough because it has to try and suck it from underneath instead of blowing it off from the top....

They DO work.... There's No Vacuum, occasionally there's a fight for the air current depending on the rotiation of the fan, hell there's about 40 factors, that's why weather is so violent, haha.

All I'm trying to say man is We should go with nature not against it. Plus as BWX mentioned there is still the entire gravity issue, I certianly also think regardless of fan or whatever... there's the whole Zalman huge as hell passive heatsink or semi heavy waterblocks. (Copper is a heavy material) let the gravity make more contact, although I suppose then you may have to worry about crushing the core.... but I doubt it with the shims on today's Vpus

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BWX

I don't think gravity has anything to do with it- but hot air does rise- and less heat would radiate over the card surface-

But anyway, my whole argument for flipping the card over thing was so they could put bigger cooling solutions on there by default and not lose any PCI slots.

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Rasta Monsta

Hee, I hate to take this thread too far off the opening topic, but I guess it is too late for that.

Hot air rises DUE TO gravity, as it is less dense than cooler air, and "weighs" less per volume. . .

rasta

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mike2h

more correctly, gravity allows hot air to rise.

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SeraphicSorcerer

Actually it has less to do with gravity and more to do with the expansion of molecules when things get hot, That's why it rises, you're correct when you said it's less dense. but the only thing gravity does is keep the atomosphere in place, anyhow You're right I guess it's getting mad off topic, my whole point is it would be able to get cooler if you flipped it to the other side......

Instead of allowing nthis particular thread to go off topic why don't we take it to this thread/poll I created here

POLL: Heatsink on top or bottom of the GPU


Man who knew heat could be such a hot issue, perhaps we're all full of hot air!!

Enjoy the Poll I look forward to the Community's Input

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bravoure

ouch that must be a pain in the ... you know where !
no warranty on the 9700 pro ??

and now stuck with a Gfart
GL

BMG_Cya=-

I've heard alot of good, rational science in these posts, but I would be willing to bet that at least one of the main reasons Vid-Card makers don't put the VPU on top, next to the Northbridge, and to a lesser extent the CPU, is due to possible claims by users that the extra heat generated by a top-mounted VPU caused their other components, to fail or at the least shortened the lifespan of those components.

With all the latest 3rd party site tests, (OCZ thermal paste silver content anyone?) it only takes one half-arse conducted, illustrated, and "well-written" test to start the rumor mill, and the inevitable "Avoid that product...heat..." bandwagon to roll.

Putting the VPU on the bottom, leaves vid-card companies responsible only for the performance of their product, and not possibly responsible for an end-user's entire system.

Or...

Tipstaff

Just so I can put this to rest, the proposed BTX format will alleviate most of the problems we're discussing. You can see a pic from Intels site here: http://www.intel.com/update/contents/dt10031.htm Essentially the board is flipped upside down: main panel to the back, PCI slots up top-left, Ram at the bottom, and the CPU is moved off to the mid-bottom right. Video card makers won't have to flip the GPU because when you mount it into your new BTX case it will be already. Mind you, this is the "proposed" BTX format.

I guess manufacturers were thinking about this too.

Edit: I should note that the pic shown is more inline with a desktop PC case. So in this instance the panel is on the back, ram to the far left, CPU to the mid-front-center, PCI slots to the back-right.

REGENERAT1ON

my 9800 XT idle at 70-75c and 85c busy...
Hercules stock cooling (big fan which also cover the memory)
for all the other 9800 XT users... if you got 50-60c.. then o/c...
the card can handle up to 95-100c

Armand

I assume that my 9600 Pro does not have a thermal monitor chip? Does the inclusion of one start at the 9700 level? Thanks.

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ASrock K7S8XE
AMD XP 2800+
Sapphire 9600 Pro
512M PC2700
WD 80g 7200rpm
Compaq Qvision 21" Monitor

Zelig

I'm not sure about the 9600 pro, most 9600 xt's do, afaik 9700's don't, and 9800's do.

merlinxi

A lot is two words. Does anyone realize this?

Allot is a word, but it has totally different meaning.

Alot is not a word.

A lot is two different words, people must understand this and stop making this common mistake!

Merlin

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** 700 Watt Toughpower Cable Management Power supply -- Asus P55 LE Motherboard -- Intel Core i7 860 2.8GHZ Quad Core -- 6Gb Dominator Ram DD3 8 Latency Timings -- Windows 7 64bit -- Gigabyte GTX470 Superclocked Video Card -- 1.5 TB Hard drive, 1TB hard drive, 250GB Hard drive, and a partridge in a pear tree. **

BWX

Duhh..... People do it because it's less typing I'm sure-- We aren't at school here. I do it sometimes too- it's not that I don't know the difference, it's that I just don't care sometimes..


LOL isn't a word!! Ahhhh!! I must bug out and scold people...

Dude, chill man, it will be ok.

who said it anyway?

Zardon

get out of bed on the wrong side PJ?

This is a tech forum not an english class. personally I feel using "this" twice in the same sentence is poor also. something like "people must understand this and stop making such a common mistake" reads much better.

now lets get this thread back on track for goodness sake.

merlinxi

Yeah I must have been in a pissed off mood...

Merlin

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** 700 Watt Toughpower Cable Management Power supply -- Asus P55 LE Motherboard -- Intel Core i7 860 2.8GHZ Quad Core -- 6Gb Dominator Ram DD3 8 Latency Timings -- Windows 7 64bit -- Gigabyte GTX470 Superclocked Video Card -- 1.5 TB Hard drive, 1TB hard drive, 250GB Hard drive, and a partridge in a pear tree. **