Discussion about Apple, MacOS and iOS

BiGBrOwNPimpsta · Jan 17, 2011, 03:03 AM

you know, a few months ago I posted a thread about how I find myself less excited about PC hardware and following it less. The enthusiast market has toned down with this mobile uprising, kinda sad IMO. So I want to open a discussion for what you guys think Apple is doing, and your opinion the path they are taking. Avoid PC fanboyism and Apple trash talk please!

A few months ago I read an interesting article from Gizmodo about how iOS could frighteningly replace MacOS. I am still trying to find the article ATM, but I'll refer to points to it. Post it if you can beat me. I'm not a Mac guy, but a iPhone owner. Addicted to the phone pretty hardcore for years now, since the first gen touch. But I hate dealing with Apple specific methods like iTunes; I know there's alternatives but retarded restrictions apply unless you buy music from iTunes or have a Mac. But Apple's path to dominance and convergence is a bit frightening, arrogant and intriguing. Lion showed features of iOS coming to OSX, and dumbing down the computer for many users (which is a good thing) which brings iOS elements such as the launchpad and app folders. But at the same time, the level of control they demand is ridiculous. iOS hides the backend of the OS (the root and folders) in the sake of simplicity, but any attempt to touch this you will not be recognized by Apple for any customer service. iTunes is your single hub for everything, you must deal with its short comings and pay Apple for all authorized applications. Anything outside of this is not allowed and "deviant". Lion brings users to become more comfortable with touch interfaces and iOS like features (along with the new magic trackpad, which is just an oversized laptop trackpad), but Gizmodo made a good point it could easily replace MacOS.

They have an effective foundation for control in the name of stability, a "simpler" OS which becomes 1 product to support accross the board reducing their costs and market confusion. They take the route of efficiency, but you lose out any control over the backend. They believe most do not want to see the backend in the sake of simplicity, and market that to you. In the end, they are extremely effective marketers and designers, not manufacturers which they want you to think (Foxconn is the manufacturer). Many idiots believe the iPhone is an iPhone, not a phone or smartphone. This is the same with most consumer tech companies, but they aren't ashamed of admitting this many times. In addition, cloud computing can benefit Apple. Have a thin client (like a business) which you call your Mac, running iOS and pay a monthly subscription. Your data is in their control through their simplified interface. You guys might of also seen the proposed data centers.

Now what do you guys think? Is it possible this is the future for Apple, with other tech companies catching up? Virtualization is being rolled out in enterprises for years, cloud computing is more or less a similar consumer version. It is insane way to make revenue; subcription based service to access your data daily at a low regular price through one OS. Google is aiming for a free version as we all saw. If so, do you agree with this level of control or the path they may take. I'm not here bashing them here, but does it seem realistic what I'm sayin? The change catalyst is pretty big, but also arrogant.

btw I do NOT believe I am correct, but was intrigued by Gizmodo's article, which when I find I will post. This has been a recent discussion with me and my boys since I'm an IT mgmt major (B.Comm ERP spec).

edit: think I found the article, but I can't find the comment I made. Actually 2

http://gizmodo.com/5670812/big-broth...of-the-program

http://gizmodo.com/5598828/apple-mag...d-for-mac-os-x

**dj_stick** · Jan 18, 2011, 12:07 AM

Apple do have a serious case of industrial arrogance when it comes to how their products should be used.... imo, the iOS platform as a phone OS doesn't really work - you want a unified experience from a phone, information from multiple places at a glance (many other mobile OS's show how many SMS, emails, facebook updates, previews etc on the homescreen or screensaver before the phone is even opened... Apples current implementation of something similiar is still too disjointed)

some iOS features would be handy to have built into Mac OS X though.... the new App Store is an example of this - no more googling for useful apps/games, searching for different reviews, it's all in one place, but it IS just another way for Apple to maintain control, and I don't know how long it's going to be able to last - in the end someone will get sick of it, and do something about it.

I'm surprised Apple have lasted as long as they have without the sort of legal attention Microsoft has gotten over the last decade - bundling Windows Media Player, (iTunes anyone?) integration with MS Office (iWork anyone?) and the iLife suite competing with other entry level video/photo/audio editing applications, which then have a direct upgrade path to the "Pro" series apps - project/libraries made with the iLife apps can be opened directly with the Pro versions (Garageband - Logic, iPhoto - Aperture, iMovie - Final Cut) creating what some legislators may see as an "unfair" advantage over the competition - why would one look for another program if it's so easy to upgrade to the advanced version?

The only reason I think Apple has been ignored in the above cases, is that it's market share has been traditionally minimal (yet it's user base stupidly outspoken). But Apple products are becoming more and more popular, and with the sheer advertising presence in TV and movies (how often do you see the Apple logo somewhere on screen?) there's going to be a significant shift over the next five to ten years....

As to your fears of a cloud-only platform, via a subscription.... Apple already have the beginnings of the infrastructure for that... their MobileMe cloud and and to a lesser extent, the iWork cloud, have already proven to be quite popular, but I can't see them maintaining a fee-based system in the long-term if Google and/or Microsoft offer a convincing alternative.

In the short-term, I think they can do it, simply for the fact that Apple make it easy to stay with Apple. From the upgrade paths to more advanced versions of their bundled apps, subscribing to MobileMe from the System Preferences (OS X's control panel) or even as part of the setup when you first turn on a new Mac to the integration between Mac OS and iDevices (iPhone/iPad/iPod) and their insanely effective marketing department - Apple really do have the foundations to build a monopoly based on telling people what they want....

Although this sounds like a typical anti-Apple rant, in my defence, I actually am an Apple user (Mac Pro, Macbook Air, iPhone) who has actually fallen for the "easy upgrade" path (iPhoto to Aperture - which is actually a really good program, as are Apple's other Pro apps, of which I also own Logic - the primary reason for me going to a Mac)

I guess I'm just one of the few Mac users who don't swallow Job & Co's proclamations as if they were the word of God....

BiGBrOwNPimpsta · Jan 18, 2011, 01:51 AM

companies all need to change and adapt their revenue models, and subscription is the most attractive from both ends. looks cheaper upfront to the consumer, and it never ends for the provider. Apple wants an OS that lets them control their business model and products end to end, and it possibly iOS.

BiGBrOwNPimpsta · Jan 20, 2011, 02:54 AM

oh yeah forgot we have an apple thread

Callandor · Feb 17, 2011, 08:45 AM

I don't see Apple increasing its market share much over the next couple of years, why, because Apples are still too expensive when compared to PCs. Unless they dropped the price more at which point people might stop liking Apple as they might just treat them like another PC.

BiGBrOwNPimpsta · Feb 17, 2011, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Callandor

I don't see Apple increasing its market share much over the next couple of years, why, because Apples are still too expensive when compared to PCs. Unless they dropped the price more at which point people might stop liking Apple as they might just treat them like another PC.

Price isn't everything, its value. 2 different notions I would say. Also their pricing strategy is interesting. They offer you a product that starts at something more than others but they never have products that top out higher than elite or niche manufacturers. They have also been effective at downplaying what's under the good which is a common goal they have. AMD's tried it with their Vision brand, not that effective unfortunately.

The 2 things I hate about the Apple brand is that smug look people have when using their Macbooks at a local Starbucks while writing their memoirs. And then the feeling of their products are for khaki wearing honkies (no offense) lol. I sure ain't one, but I know some! It's trying to be cute by using an old microphone for the iPhone voice recorder. Or we have hipsters. Otherwise a great product with a genius marketing division. Just scary in terms of what they want to achieve.

Another note: you will never know their processes or methodologies compared to other tech companies. Microsoft offers a lot more knowledge on how to be a tech professional. Apple provides how to cover yourself in more tech to look cooler, nor do they have a strong B2B focus.

**dj_stick** · Mar 3, 2011, 11:24 AM

you sure about that last point BBP?
I've been looking at branching into IT, and Apple's "Certified Professional" pathways look pretty attractive - currently studying up on their Aperture certification program (if only to learn the app inside and out)

Swimtech is probably the best person to ask about it, he's already Apple certified for servicing Macs, but haven't seen him posting for a while

Judas · Mar 3, 2011, 03:44 PM

1 week ago i had an LOL moment..

a customer whom refuses to give me their business.. which is their choice... whatever.

Recently purchased a MAC OS system (apple PC...)... paid big bucks for it, typical senario..

It's pretty amazing how IDENTICAL everything is to a cheaper but damn good pc component setup.. sure of course the exclusives of the apple machine are there.

Anyways.. surfice it to say, apparently she didn't realize how screwed she was because it required the apple technician to come down a few days later and install windows..... of course being that she hadn't told him much of what was wrong, he figured it was just typical user error. Nope, everything she wanted to do was specific to windows operating system.... no support for MAC OS, and top it off, she couldn't find her way through the MAC system at all either.

She had to run in to my store to pick up a Windows 7 disk (supposedly 64bit wasn't going to work so i had to special order 32bit for her lol, but at least i had a OEM copy laying around)

BiGBrOwNPimpsta · Mar 3, 2011, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj_stick

you sure about that last point BBP?
I've been looking at branching into IT, and Apple's "Certified Professional" pathways look pretty attractive - currently studying up on their Aperture certification program (if only to learn the app inside and out)

Swimtech is probably the best person to ask about it, he's already Apple certified for servicing Macs, but haven't seen him posting for a while

there's very few compared to Microsoft. but it's not only certifications like MSCE, I'll read many texts about how a project was managed at companies like Cisco, SAP, Oracle, IBM but never about Apple. It's always so super secret. Aperature is definitely a pro product, but I'm talking about development methodologies. True trade secrets should be secret, but they downplay everything too much in the name of marketing to the mainstream consumer, which is good and bad.

Great strategy to simplify tech, but its scary when its so super secret and cult-like.

**dj_stick** · Mar 3, 2011, 10:42 PM

ah must have missed the point of your poste, yeah I'm not talking about development - they hardly ever tell you what they're doing, then BAM - new product/version - as I've said many times over the years, I'm really surprised that Apple hasn't received the same sort of attention Microsoft has over the years... ie the US Gov. almost requiring Microsoft to split up over Windows/Office integration and the EU's fining over Windows Media Player of all things....
I'm talking about deploying and supporting in the professional environment - they've got a relatively cheap certification about integrating Apple computers into a cisco/pc network environment, along with certifications on supporting hardware, software packages, even training (once your certified with something you can apply to be a trainer)

BiGBrOwNPimpsta · Mar 4, 2011, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj_stick

ah must have missed the point of your poste, yeah I'm not talking about development - they hardly ever tell you what they're doing, then BAM - new product/version - as I've said many times over the years, I'm really surprised that Apple hasn't received the same sort of attention Microsoft has over the years... ie the US Gov. almost requiring Microsoft to split up over Windows/Office integration and the EU's fining over Windows Media Player of all things....
I'm talking about deploying and supporting in the professional environment - they've got a relatively cheap certification about integrating Apple computers into a cisco/pc network environment, along with certifications on supporting hardware, software packages, even training (once your certified with something you can apply to be a trainer)

they are all front end with their product, what I mean is they deliver a consumer product, market it, they want you to only see what needs to be seen which is excellent makes shit easier. but a huge market of professionals need power. they are taking that away with their new structure. Lion will no longer have a typical document, but rather Apps will have abilities to access saved documents across. Maybe someone wants to further edit this file as a power user but in the name of the mainstream this ability will be downplayed.

I know they mean well to get more people to enjoy the tech, but its closing off the environment around them. Actually, Final Cut is going from a professional looking product to something more mainstream. A lot of video professionals aren't happy by the sounds of it. But I will say let's see what happens when it is released, rather than speculate. Apple has the market share now, and they can force more proprietary solutions which they have always wanted to. The dock connector is a perfect example for this success.

Jan 17, 2011, 03:03 AM	#1
BiGBrOwNPimpsta HH's #1 Hustla and Pimp Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Dirty Dot Posts: 7,717 Rep Power: 107 System Specs	Discussion about Apple, MacOS and iOS you know, a few months ago I posted a thread about how I find myself less excited about PC hardware and following it less. The enthusiast market has toned down with this mobile uprising, kinda sad IMO. So I want to open a discussion for what you guys think Apple is doing, and your opinion the path they are taking. Avoid PC fanboyism and Apple trash talk please! A few months ago I read an interesting article from Gizmodo about how iOS could frighteningly replace MacOS. I am still trying to find the article ATM, but I'll refer to points to it. Post it if you can beat me. I'm not a Mac guy, but a iPhone owner. Addicted to the phone pretty hardcore for years now, since the first gen touch. But I hate dealing with Apple specific methods like iTunes; I know there's alternatives but retarded restrictions apply unless you buy music from iTunes or have a Mac. But Apple's path to dominance and convergence is a bit frightening, arrogant and intriguing. Lion showed features of iOS coming to OSX, and dumbing down the computer for many users (which is a good thing) which brings iOS elements such as the launchpad and app folders. But at the same time, the level of control they demand is ridiculous. iOS hides the backend of the OS (the root and folders) in the sake of simplicity, but any attempt to touch this you will not be recognized by Apple for any customer service. iTunes is your single hub for everything, you must deal with its short comings and pay Apple for all authorized applications. Anything outside of this is not allowed and "deviant". Lion brings users to become more comfortable with touch interfaces and iOS like features (along with the new magic trackpad, which is just an oversized laptop trackpad), but Gizmodo made a good point it could easily replace MacOS. They have an effective foundation for control in the name of stability, a "simpler" OS which becomes 1 product to support accross the board reducing their costs and market confusion. They take the route of efficiency, but you lose out any control over the backend. They believe most do not want to see the backend in the sake of simplicity, and market that to you. In the end, they are extremely effective marketers and designers, not manufacturers which they want you to think (Foxconn is the manufacturer). Many idiots believe the iPhone is an iPhone, not a phone or smartphone. This is the same with most consumer tech companies, but they aren't ashamed of admitting this many times. In addition, cloud computing can benefit Apple. Have a thin client (like a business) which you call your Mac, running iOS and pay a monthly subscription. Your data is in their control through their simplified interface. You guys might of also seen the proposed data centers. Now what do you guys think? Is it possible this is the future for Apple, with other tech companies catching up? Virtualization is being rolled out in enterprises for years, cloud computing is more or less a similar consumer version. It is insane way to make revenue; subcription based service to access your data daily at a low regular price through one OS. Google is aiming for a free version as we all saw. If so, do you agree with this level of control or the path they may take. I'm not here bashing them here, but does it seem realistic what I'm sayin? The change catalyst is pretty big, but also arrogant. btw I do NOT believe I am correct, but was intrigued by Gizmodo's article, which when I find I will post. This has been a recent discussion with me and my boys since I'm an IT mgmt major (B.Comm ERP spec). edit: think I found the article, but I can't find the comment I made. Actually 2 http://gizmodo.com/5670812/big-broth...of-the-program http://gizmodo.com/5598828/apple-mag...d-for-mac-os-x __________________ Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Music \| Logitech Z-5500 THX 5.1 Surround Sound Speakers \| 2 Lite-On 20x S-ATA Burners \| Logitech G700 Mouse \| Logitech MX5500 Bluetooth Keyboard Last edited by BiGBrOwNPimpsta; Jan 18, 2011 at 02:33 AM.

Jan 18, 2011, 01:51 AM	Thread Starter #3
BiGBrOwNPimpsta HH's #1 Hustla and Pimp Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Dirty Dot Posts: 7,717 Rep Power: 107 System Specs	Re: Discussion about Apple, MacOS and iOS companies all need to change and adapt their revenue models, and subscription is the most attractive from both ends. looks cheaper upfront to the consumer, and it never ends for the provider. Apple wants an OS that lets them control their business model and products end to end, and it possibly iOS. __________________ Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Music \| Logitech Z-5500 THX 5.1 Surround Sound Speakers \| 2 Lite-On 20x S-ATA Burners \| Logitech G700 Mouse \| Logitech MX5500 Bluetooth Keyboard

Jan 20, 2011, 02:54 AM	Thread Starter #4
BiGBrOwNPimpsta HH's #1 Hustla and Pimp Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Dirty Dot Posts: 7,717 Rep Power: 107 System Specs	Re: Discussion about Apple, MacOS and iOS oh yeah forgot we have an apple thread __________________ Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Music \| Logitech Z-5500 THX 5.1 Surround Sound Speakers \| 2 Lite-On 20x S-ATA Burners \| Logitech G700 Mouse \| Logitech MX5500 Bluetooth Keyboard

Feb 17, 2011, 08:45 AM	#5
Callandor Forged on Dragonmount Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 7,216 Rep Power: 303 System Specs	Re: Discussion about Apple, MacOS and iOS I don't see Apple increasing its market share much over the next couple of years, why, because Apples are still too expensive when compared to PCs. Unless they dropped the price more at which point people might stop liking Apple as they might just treat them like another PC. __________________