Sonar HS4/ASIO problem (no input level)

mach77 · Apr 14, 2006, 12:15 AM

I have a SBLive! card and just recently found the kX Driver package. Using RM Audio Analyzer you can really see the difference in driver quality.

Now to my question...

I want to use the ASIO drivers for my SBLive! from thekX package in Sonar HS4. My problem is that I cannot seem to get any kind of input level when I use the ASIO drivers instead of WDM.

In the kX Mixer I'm set to record the LineIn and using WDM I get about -68db sound floor from my mixer. When I switch to the ASIO drivers I select the Left kX ASIO kx in 00 for my input source. When I click to arm the track I don't get any level on the meter so obviously something isn't right. In my Audio Options my Sampling Rate is 48000, bit depth 24, and I'm using the default 21.33ms latency. In the Drivers tab I only enabled the first input/output.

Any help would be appreciated...

Russ · Apr 14, 2006, 12:54 AM

There is an ASIO mapping issue with Live! 5.1 models and some Live! models.
Basically what it boils down to, is that the ASIO channel numbers as they appear in kX, may not match the channel numbers as they appear in the host software (i.e. ASIO 4/5 in kX could show up as ASIO 6/7 in the host, etc).
See Lex's guide on "How to setup kX with Cubase SX" for more info on the ASIO mapping issue and how to figure out the mapping.

mach77 · Apr 16, 2006, 03:32 AM

Before realizing that I should have been able to get an input level using the default DSP I looked through Lex's guide and used a simple ProFX setup and was getting about -64db sound floor from my mixer. It turned out not to be a mapping issue with the default DSP I just didn't have the mixer configured correctly. I have also had to mute/unmute the Ins 'n' Outs AC'97 to get a level sometimes.

I'm a little confused why there are AC'97 sliders in both the Ins 'n' Outs and Recording sections and only the Ins 'n' Outs one affects the input level. I'm able to keep a decent signal and get about a -70db sound floor using the default DSP while setting the AC'97 InO slider to 50. Using a ProFX setup the input level seems to be fixed at a higher level and I get about -64db. Do I need to add some negative gain to the chain to fix this?

I am using the 3537 driver version. I have been reading about 3534f and will probably switch to that soon for the ASIO performance.

Thanks again for the nice work on the kX project.

Russ · Apr 16, 2006, 04:30 AM

The 2 sliders are independant of each other, and they only attenuate the signal (they are DSP sliders).

epilog contains it's own independant copy of the AC97 signal, that is routed internally (inside of epilog) to the host for MME recording. The slider on the Recording page modifies that copy of the signal (the slider is part of epilog). This cannot be used for ASIO, as it is only routed to MME.

prolog also has its own independant copy of the AC97 signal. The slider on the Ins and Outs page, only modifies that copy of the AC97 signal (the slider is part of prolog).

ProFX also has it's own independant copy of the AC97 signal, but it is fixed at 0 dB (non adjustabe). The main slider for recording (within the plugin) controls Analog Recording Gain (which is NOT a DSP slider, rather it controls a register of the AC97 codec).

Copy is not really the right word -- it is sort of like the following:

Code:

                   |--> prolog - AC97 In slider --> DSP routing
                   |
Signal --> CODEC --|--> ProFX:ADC --> DSP routing
                   |
                   |--> epilog - AC97 Rec Level slider --> MME
                   |
                   |--> other plugins that include the inputs --> DSP routing

Currently there are no "other plugins" (as pictured in the above ASCII diagram) that I know of, but other plugins could include those inputs if they wanted to, and could have there own sliders, etc. to modify the signal at that point. The Analog Recording Gain is (again) an AC97 (codec) register, thus (even though ProFX has a control for it), it is applied to the signal before it actually reaches any of these plugins, and thus would effect all of them equally. That is not the case for the other 2 sliders, as they are part of the plugin (they are only DSP sliders, and thus only effect the signal at those points).

mach77 · Apr 19, 2006, 09:12 PM

Thanks for clarifying about the sliders.

I went back to 3534f and have a minimalistic setup using ProFX that is working well.

Apr 14, 2006, 12:15 AM	#1
mach77 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Sonar HS4/ASIO problem (no input level) I have a SBLive! card and just recently found the kX Driver package. Using RM Audio Analyzer you can really see the difference in driver quality. Now to my question... I want to use the ASIO drivers for my SBLive! from thekX package in Sonar HS4. My problem is that I cannot seem to get any kind of input level when I use the ASIO drivers instead of WDM. In the kX Mixer I'm set to record the LineIn and using WDM I get about -68db sound floor from my mixer. When I switch to the ASIO drivers I select the Left kX ASIO kx in 00 for my input source. When I click to arm the track I don't get any level on the meter so obviously something isn't right. In my Audio Options my Sampling Rate is 48000, bit depth 24, and I'm using the default 21.33ms latency. In the Drivers tab I only enabled the first input/output. Any help would be appreciated...

Apr 16, 2006, 04:30 AM	#4
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,561 Rep Power: 62	The 2 sliders are independant of each other, and they only attenuate the signal (they are DSP sliders). epilog contains it's own independant copy of the AC97 signal, that is routed internally (inside of epilog) to the host for MME recording. The slider on the Recording page modifies that copy of the signal (the slider is part of epilog). This cannot be used for ASIO, as it is only routed to MME. prolog also has its own independant copy of the AC97 signal. The slider on the Ins and Outs page, only modifies that copy of the AC97 signal (the slider is part of prolog). ProFX also has it's own independant copy of the AC97 signal, but it is fixed at 0 dB (non adjustabe). The main slider for recording (within the plugin) controls Analog Recording Gain (which is NOT a DSP slider, rather it controls a register of the AC97 codec). Copy is not really the right word -- it is sort of like the following: Code: \|--> prolog - AC97 In slider --> DSP routing \| Signal --> CODEC --\|--> ProFX:ADC --> DSP routing \| \|--> epilog - AC97 Rec Level slider --> MME \| \|--> other plugins that include the inputs --> DSP routing Currently there are no "other plugins" (as pictured in the above ASCII diagram) that I know of, but other plugins could include those inputs if they wanted to, and could have there own sliders, etc. to modify the signal at that point. The Analog Recording Gain is (again) an AC97 (codec) register, thus (even though ProFX has a control for it), it is applied to the signal before it actually reaches any of these plugins, and thus would effect all of them equally. That is not the case for the other 2 sliders, as they are part of the plugin (they are only DSP sliders, and thus only effect the signal at those points). Last edited by Russ; Apr 16, 2006 at 04:42 AM.

Apr 14, 2006, 12:54 AM	#2
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,561 Rep Power: 62	There is an ASIO mapping issue with Live! 5.1 models and some Live! models. Basically what it boils down to, is that the ASIO channel numbers as they appear in kX, may not match the channel numbers as they appear in the host software (i.e. ASIO 4/5 in kX could show up as ASIO 6/7 in the host, etc). See Lex's guide on "How to setup kX with Cubase SX" for more info on the ASIO mapping issue and how to figure out the mapping.

Apr 16, 2006, 03:32 AM	Thread Starter #3
mach77 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Before realizing that I should have been able to get an input level using the default DSP I looked through Lex's guide and used a simple ProFX setup and was getting about -64db sound floor from my mixer. It turned out not to be a mapping issue with the default DSP I just didn't have the mixer configured correctly. I have also had to mute/unmute the Ins 'n' Outs AC'97 to get a level sometimes. I'm a little confused why there are AC'97 sliders in both the Ins 'n' Outs and Recording sections and only the Ins 'n' Outs one affects the input level. I'm able to keep a decent signal and get about a -70db sound floor using the default DSP while setting the AC'97 InO slider to 50. Using a ProFX setup the input level seems to be fixed at a higher level and I get about -64db. Do I need to add some negative gain to the chain to fix this? I am using the 3537 driver version. I have been reading about 3534f and will probably switch to that soon for the ASIO performance. Thanks again for the nice work on the kX project.

Apr 19, 2006, 09:12 PM	Thread Starter #5
mach77 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Thanks for clarifying about the sliders. I went back to 3534f and have a minimalistic setup using ProFX that is working well.