How do you get 2.33 latency?

AtomicXL · Mar 21, 2003, 10:33 PM

For that matter, how do you get anything bellow 21.33 MS?

The only options in my kX ASIO menus are 21.33ms and 42.66 ms.

BTW, I'm using a Sound Blaster Audigy Plat., AMD XP 1600+, 256MB of SDRAM.

Max M. · Mar 22, 2003, 06:24 AM

You've missed scrolling arrows at the right of the latency selection list....

AtomicXL · Mar 24, 2003, 03:40 AM

I feel like a frag slabbin idiot, haha.

~~bluelight~~ · Mar 31, 2003, 10:47 AM

You will not have any use of 2.6 ms latency on that machine.

The lowest reasonable latency would be about 5 ms.

Bluelight

Max M. · Apr 1, 2003, 02:10 AM

>You will not have any use of 2.6 ms latency on that machine. - why do you think so?

kokoon · Apr 2, 2003, 12:56 PM

i can get latency < 10ms on my celeron566

Reinhard · Apr 19, 2003, 04:31 PM

My asio latency (throughput analog out --> in) is about 60ms !!

when under linux 2.4.18 i get 10ms throughput latency....

So should i live with that under Windows or will tuning PCI Latency settings reduce the asio latency to 10ms (well actually i don't believe this would change so much... )

Someone out there using the kxDrivers with an old PentII300 ?

Thanks in advance

Max M. · Apr 20, 2003, 12:03 AM

>My asio latency (throughput analog out --> in) is about 60ms !! - hmm, how do you measure this? i mean are you sure that you compare the same things at all?

Reinhard · Apr 20, 2003, 02:17 PM

60ms throughput latency measured by "pure data" (dataflow DSP program) with portaudio asio lib connected to kXdriver ASIO, you send out impuls trains and record the analog in , in "PD" you can then measure the time delay

the linux latency is measured with the same prog and same "function" but the linux drivers without ASIO of course (as there is no such thing in Linux...)

Max M. · Apr 20, 2003, 11:52 PM

interesting.. could you give me a link to a more technical information about that "pure data"? - well, with such method (playback->record) you should get "final_latency = software_latency * 2 + hardware_latency" - where the software latency is the one you set in asio control panel and hardware latency is the latency of the card itself (adc, dac, resampling buffers) - not more then 1...2ms.... so you probably just have asio latency set to 30ms in control panel... (PCI Latency is not relaited to ASIO latency at all, except it can affect stability and perfomance of the whole system...)... or.. maybe there's something wrong with you "measurement setup"...

Reinhard · Apr 21, 2003, 11:56 AM

Here are some links: http://pure-data.sourceforge.net/ http://www.pure-data.org/

The ASIO capability of this prog is achieved through the "portaudio" library by Ross Bencina (also author of audiomulch i think). There is no control panel for ASIO there, but you can specify the buffer lengths and numbers of buffers. When i specify shorter buffer lengths and/or smaller numbers i get glitches in the sound - so i think i have the correct best buffer settings that are possible.

How do you measure latency when not by recording the output ?

My measurement patch is actually from the author of puredata, so there shouldn't be a problem with it - well, under linux i use the same patch with the same prog and it works (getting the 10ms latency worst case).

Well looking in the Control Panel of Windows: there is no ASIO setup there - should there be one ? I think the Control Panel you mean, is the one popping up when you change audio settings in for e.g. Logic Audio , but not elsewhere....right ? I just looked in the kxManager itself: settings->setup buffers->record buffer as well as playback buffer set to 2048bytes (2,13ms) - i remember, that i also tried to shorten this, but it just introduced glitches in the sound aswell, so i think these are the smallest values possible there...

By the way: thanks for the interest and your time so far !!

Reinhard

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Apr 21, 2003, 09:08 PM

you need to set-up the latency manually via kX ASIO applet
because it ignores the buffer sizes that the application specifies
run any ASIO host and open ASIO control panel in it in order to tweak the latencies
or run RegEdit and select the smaller values in the following registry keys:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOftware\kX\ASIO\ASIO0

1024 corresponds to 21ms

/Eugene

Blento · Apr 30, 2003, 01:24 PM

Reinhard--"So should i live with that under Windows or will tuning PCI Latency settings reduce the asio latency to 10ms (well actually i don't believe this would change so much... )

Someone out there using the kxDrivers with an old PentII300 ?"

I use KX drivers with an even older computre ..233MMX Cyrics

))
it works mostly fine....

Orion · May 15, 2003, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Reinhard
My asio latency (throughput analog out --> in) is about 60ms !!

when under linux 2.4.18 i get 10ms throughput latency....

So should i live with that under Windows or will tuning PCI Latency settings reduce the asio latency to 10ms (well actually i don't believe this would change so much... )

Someone out there using the kxDrivers with an old PentII300 ?

Thanks in advance

Did you say Linux & ASIO ??! Oh my God. I must have some links please.

If we could use Linux with Alsa ASIO based VST host, it would be GRRRRREAT!

Btw. i can squeze 5ms out of my Athlon 900 / Live value, but i'm using 10ms for composing, and 20ms safety for recording.

I've had 2ms with a previous kx-release once, but it never worked later with newer drivers.

BTW. take a look at my subThread at the MIDI and Soundfonts Thread.

"Replacing the KX-MIDI Synth(Soundfont) with an integrated VST chaining Host"

Blento · May 15, 2003, 08:40 AM

What software do you use for recordings and mixing?..
and where can i find Drivers for Audigy in Linux?...
Danke..

geraldandreas · May 15, 2003, 09:00 AM

hey everyone, maybe anybody can answer this thing. i have by myself an PIII 500 on an BX mobo, 256mb sdram, tekram scsi-lvd controller with 5 drives. and also an lancard. my cards are a ct4760 with livedrive 2 and a ct4670. every card use a own irq and i use the latest kx 3533b and can use 2,66 ms in wavelab4, logic5,5, traktor2 and so on.
the machine of a friend of me is an p4 2,4 on an epox ep-4pea+ board with 512ram, ide drives and cd and cdr.
this board have lan, firewire, usb1.1 and 2.0, sound onboard. we can do what we want we get the irq always on 9. look at this.

Systeminformationsbericht erstellt am: 14.05.2003 23:06:53
[IRQs]

IRQ-Nummer Gerät
9 Microsoft ACPI-konformes System
9 NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4800 SE
9 Intel(R) 82801DB/DBM USB Universal Host Controller - 24C2
9 Intel(R) 82801DB/DBM USB Universal Host Controller - 24C4
9 Intel(R) 82801DB/DBM USB Universal Host Controller - 24C7
9 Intel PCI to USB Enhanced Host Controller
9 Realtek RTL8139/810X Family PCI Fast Ethernet NIC
9 kX 10k1 Audio - 5.1 Model SB0102
14 Primärer IDE-Kanal
15 Sekundärer IDE-Kanal
11 Intel(R) 82801DB/DBM SMBus Controller - 24C3
8 System CMOS/Echtzeituhr
13 Numerischer Coprozessor
6 Standard-Diskettenlaufwerkcontroller
4 Kommunikationsanschluss (COM1)
1 Standardtastatur (101/102 Tasten) oder Microsoft Natural Keyboard (PS/2)

the info from kx is

Aktuelles Skin: Creation2x
Skin Autor: djforest
----Hardware / Software configuration---------------
Treiber Name:kX Audio Driver (Debug)
Treiber Datum: May 12 2003 01:22:05
Treiber Version: 5.10.00.3533 - debug
DB Name:none
SB0102 5.1 [a800]
PCI Information:
Device: 21102 Subsys: 80641102 ChipRev: 7
Card has MPU device
Kartenmodel ist '5.1'
Card HAS AC97 codec
Codec name: SigmaTel STAC9708
3D Extension: SigmaTel 3D Enhancement
Codec is 2.0 compliant
Capabilities[6940] :
DAC resolutions : -16-bit- -18-bit-
ADC resolutions : -16-bit- -18-bit-
Ext Capabilities [80]: -PCM surround DAC-
Port: a800 Irq: 12
Playback buffer: 20a0
Record buffer: 4000
Number of AC3 buffers: 4
Tank memory: 256 kb
OS version: [2 5 0 Service Pack 3; 2 5 0 Service Pack 3; 156 148]

look at the irq here, it shows 12. and the lowest latency is 21ms when we play wav in any program, traktor, logic, wavelab. only in logic without any wav-file, we come down to 5ms. and i can´t get the card to another irq for singular. do anyone have an idea why this is so. i was thinking, on a faster machine it will be minimum so fast as on my p3/500. on every machine is w2k, sp3, dx9.
thx, regards to the fantastic kx team
gerald

i found a solution for this fuck.... Epox Mobo, in w2k i changed from apic-PC to Standard-PC, then i got the SB0102 5.1 only with USB3 shared. and i install the intel-chipset driver again. and then, what a great feeling, i can use 2,66ms without any clicks. and now, the world is for me ok, when the p4-2,4g is now faster than my p3-500

Orion · Jun 6, 2003, 04:10 AM

Windows (N)ext (T)errorisation... hehe

Anyway my brainless motherboard also forces all / most PCI cards to IRQ 9, when using the APIC HAL drivers.

I too installed the old HAL drivers at some time, and woaah, my geforce and my live's performance went straight up, must be that time i got 2ms out of KX ASIO...? hmm i don't remember quite.

Must be a bug in the APIC chipset, coz its the same issue in Linux with APIC enabled, not a Gates screwup this time i think.... but but....

Anyw.. i used the old non APIC HAL drivers for awhile , but soon got tired of having to push the off button on my PC at each time i'd shutdown...

But sure... replacing the WinNT/2K/XP HAL drivers speed things up, also remeber, that not all PCI slots support BUS MASTERING, and some even share IRQ's (Hardwired)...

So for an ultimate performance boost:

1.) Try your soundcard in each and all PCI slots, till you find the slot which gives the best performance / latency..

2.) Replace the HAL drivers, from "ACPI / APIC" to "Standard PC / non ACPI" HAL to unlock the stoopid IRQ9 Force sharing (Found on the WinCD:\i386)

3.) Now Experiment with KX ASIO Latency accessible from the tray icon..

And blah blah blah....

Sidhu · Jun 6, 2003, 06:43 AM

if someone can gimme a good link to understanding how ure MOBO deals with IRQ`s.. n also i have a P3 500, and my VST applet does show that i have a 2.33Ms latency.. although im pretty sure thats not the case... so how does one go about really knowing what latency hez achieving.

thank you.

Erk · Jun 7, 2003, 02:43 PM

My setup runs happily with a 7ms latency setting with the creative drivers, but with kX, I don't seem to have an option between ~5ms and ~10ms, so I have to use 10. Does kx work with intermediate settings if we use the registry editor?
If "512" gives ~10ms, and "256" gives ~5ms, can I select an intermediate value, or does it have to be powers of two?

Quote:

Originally posted by Eugene Gavrilov
you need to set-up the latency manually via kX ASIO applet
because it ignores the buffer sizes that the application specifies
run any ASIO host and open ASIO control panel in it in order to tweak the latencies
or run RegEdit and select the smaller values in the following registry keys:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOftware\kX\ASIO\ASIO0

1024 corresponds to 21ms

/Eugene

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Jun 8, 2003, 02:17 AM

the best way to find the answer is to try that

the worst thing that might happen is a hang/reboot
I haven't tested unstandard buffer sizes, but any reasonable value might work

/Eugene

Chickenbum · Jun 17, 2003, 12:21 AM

I get a rock stable 2ms with kx drivers, i use live audio inputs with amplitube and my guitar, works a treat

my hardware is

AMD XP2400+ Proc
1gb ddr2700
Sblive CT470 i think
GIGABYTE GA-7VAXP-A ULTRA Socket A

Software
FLstudio 4.1
Kx drivers (latest version)
amplitube

Mar 21, 2003, 10:33 PM	#1
AtomicXL DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0	How do you get 2.33 latency? For that matter, how do you get anything bellow 21.33 MS? The only options in my kX ASIO menus are 21.33ms and 42.66 ms. BTW, I'm using a Sound Blaster Audigy Plat., AMD XP 1600+, 256MB of SDRAM.

Mar 22, 2003, 06:24 AM	#2
Max M. h/h member-shmember Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Evil Empire Posts: 2,639 Rep Power: 69	You've missed scrolling arrows at the right of the latency selection list.... __________________

Apr 1, 2003, 02:10 AM	#5
Max M. h/h member-shmember Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Evil Empire Posts: 2,639 Rep Power: 69	>You will not have any use of 2.6 ms latency on that machine. - why do you think so? __________________

Apr 2, 2003, 12:56 PM	#6
kokoon DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: slovenia Posts: 269 Rep Power: 0	i can get latency < 10ms on my celeron566 __________________ [kokoon]

Apr 19, 2003, 04:31 PM	#7
Reinhard DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3 Rep Power: 0	PentII300, Win98SE My asio latency (throughput analog out --> in) is about 60ms !! when under linux 2.4.18 i get 10ms throughput latency.... So should i live with that under Windows or will tuning PCI Latency settings reduce the asio latency to 10ms (well actually i don't believe this would change so much... ) Someone out there using the kxDrivers with an old PentII300 ? Thanks in advance

Mar 24, 2003, 03:40 AM	Thread Starter #3
AtomicXL DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0	I feel like a frag slabbin idiot, haha.

Mar 31, 2003, 10:47 AM	#4
~~bluelight~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,328 Rep Power: 0	You will not have any use of 2.6 ms latency on that machine. The lowest reasonable latency would be about 5 ms. Bluelight

Apr 20, 2003, 12:03 AM	#8
Max M. h/h member-shmember Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Evil Empire Posts: 2,639 Rep Power: 69	>My asio latency (throughput analog out --> in) is about 60ms !! - hmm, how do you measure this? i mean are you sure that you compare the same things at all? __________________

Apr 20, 2003, 02:17 PM	#9
Reinhard DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3 Rep Power: 0	PentII300, Win98SE asio Latency 60ms throughput latency measured by "pure data" (dataflow DSP program) with portaudio asio lib connected to kXdriver ASIO, you send out impuls trains and record the analog in , in "PD" you can then measure the time delay the linux latency is measured with the same prog and same "function" but the linux drivers without ASIO of course (as there is no such thing in Linux...)

Apr 20, 2003, 11:52 PM	#10
Max M. h/h member-shmember Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Evil Empire Posts: 2,639 Rep Power: 69	interesting.. could you give me a link to a more technical information about that "pure data"? - well, with such method (playback->record) you should get "final_latency = software_latency * 2 + hardware_latency" - where the software latency is the one you set in asio control panel and hardware latency is the latency of the card itself (adc, dac, resampling buffers) - not more then 1...2ms.... so you probably just have asio latency set to 30ms in control panel... (PCI Latency is not relaited to ASIO latency at all, except it can affect stability and perfomance of the whole system...)... or.. maybe there's something wrong with you "measurement setup"... __________________ Last edited by Max M.; Apr 21, 2003 at 12:01 AM.

Apr 21, 2003, 11:56 AM	#11
Reinhard DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3 Rep Power: 0	PentII300, Win98SE asio Latency Here are some links: http://pure-data.sourceforge.net/ http://www.pure-data.org/ The ASIO capability of this prog is achieved through the "portaudio" library by Ross Bencina (also author of audiomulch i think). There is no control panel for ASIO there, but you can specify the buffer lengths and numbers of buffers. When i specify shorter buffer lengths and/or smaller numbers i get glitches in the sound - so i think i have the correct best buffer settings that are possible. How do you measure latency when not by recording the output ? My measurement patch is actually from the author of puredata, so there shouldn't be a problem with it - well, under linux i use the same patch with the same prog and it works (getting the 10ms latency worst case). Well looking in the Control Panel of Windows: there is no ASIO setup there - should there be one ? I think the Control Panel you mean, is the one popping up when you change audio settings in for e.g. Logic Audio , but not elsewhere....right ? I just looked in the kxManager itself: settings->setup buffers->record buffer as well as playback buffer set to 2048bytes (2,13ms) - i remember, that i also tried to shorten this, but it just introduced glitches in the sound aswell, so i think these are the smallest values possible there... By the way: thanks for the interest and your time so far !! Reinhard Last edited by Reinhard; Apr 21, 2003 at 12:27 PM.

Apr 21, 2003, 09:08 PM	#12
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,119 Rep Power: 75	you need to set-up the latency manually via kX ASIO applet because it ignores the buffer sizes that the application specifies run any ASIO host and open ASIO control panel in it in order to tweak the latencies or run RegEdit and select the smaller values in the following registry keys: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOftware\kX\ASIO\ASIO0 1024 corresponds to 21ms /Eugene

Apr 30, 2003, 01:24 PM	#13
Blento DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 53 Rep Power: 0	Reinhard--"So should i live with that under Windows or will tuning PCI Latency settings reduce the asio latency to 10ms (well actually i don't believe this would change so much... ) Someone out there using the kxDrivers with an old PentII300 ?" I use KX drivers with an even older computre ..233MMX Cyrics )) it works mostly fine.... __________________ JOOODLA

May 15, 2003, 08:40 AM	#15
Blento DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 53 Rep Power: 0	What software do you use for recordings and mixing?.. and where can i find Drivers for Audigy in Linux?... Danke.. __________________ JOOODLA

May 15, 2003, 09:00 AM	#16
geraldandreas KX-Driver Lover Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: in the heart of EU, near vienna Posts: 241 Rep Power: 0	diff Latency on 2 diff machines hey everyone, maybe anybody can answer this thing. i have by myself an PIII 500 on an BX mobo, 256mb sdram, tekram scsi-lvd controller with 5 drives. and also an lancard. my cards are a ct4760 with livedrive 2 and a ct4670. every card use a own irq and i use the latest kx 3533b and can use 2,66 ms in wavelab4, logic5,5, traktor2 and so on. the machine of a friend of me is an p4 2,4 on an epox ep-4pea+ board with 512ram, ide drives and cd and cdr. this board have lan, firewire, usb1.1 and 2.0, sound onboard. we can do what we want we get the irq always on 9. look at this. Systeminformationsbericht erstellt am: 14.05.2003 23:06:53 [IRQs] IRQ-Nummer Gerät 9 Microsoft ACPI-konformes System 9 NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4800 SE 9 Intel(R) 82801DB/DBM USB Universal Host Controller - 24C2 9 Intel(R) 82801DB/DBM USB Universal Host Controller - 24C4 9 Intel(R) 82801DB/DBM USB Universal Host Controller - 24C7 9 Intel PCI to USB Enhanced Host Controller 9 Realtek RTL8139/810X Family PCI Fast Ethernet NIC 9 kX 10k1 Audio - 5.1 Model SB0102 14 Primärer IDE-Kanal 15 Sekundärer IDE-Kanal 11 Intel(R) 82801DB/DBM SMBus Controller - 24C3 8 System CMOS/Echtzeituhr 13 Numerischer Coprozessor 6 Standard-Diskettenlaufwerkcontroller 4 Kommunikationsanschluss (COM1) 1 Standardtastatur (101/102 Tasten) oder Microsoft Natural Keyboard (PS/2) the info from kx is Aktuelles Skin: Creation2x Skin Autor: djforest ----Hardware / Software configuration--------------- Treiber Name:kX Audio Driver (Debug) Treiber Datum: May 12 2003 01:22:05 Treiber Version: 5.10.00.3533 - debug DB Name:none SB0102 5.1 [a800] PCI Information: Device: 21102 Subsys: 80641102 ChipRev: 7 Card has MPU device Kartenmodel ist '5.1' Card HAS AC97 codec Codec name: SigmaTel STAC9708 3D Extension: SigmaTel 3D Enhancement Codec is 2.0 compliant Capabilities[6940] : DAC resolutions : -16-bit- -18-bit- ADC resolutions : -16-bit- -18-bit- Ext Capabilities [80]: -PCM surround DAC- Port: a800 Irq: 12 Playback buffer: 20a0 Record buffer: 4000 Number of AC3 buffers: 4 Tank memory: 256 kb OS version: [2 5 0 Service Pack 3; 2 5 0 Service Pack 3; 156 148] look at the irq here, it shows 12. and the lowest latency is 21ms when we play wav in any program, traktor, logic, wavelab. only in logic without any wav-file, we come down to 5ms. and i can´t get the card to another irq for singular. do anyone have an idea why this is so. i was thinking, on a faster machine it will be minimum so fast as on my p3/500. on every machine is w2k, sp3, dx9. thx, regards to the fantastic kx team gerald i found a solution for this fuck.... Epox Mobo, in w2k i changed from apic-PC to Standard-PC, then i got the SB0102 5.1 only with USB3 shared. and i install the intel-chipset driver again. and then, what a great feeling, i can use 2,66ms without any clicks. and now, the world is for me ok, when the p4-2,4g is now faster than my p3-500 __________________ Gerald 1; Core2-Q9450, x38-Mobo, 2048mb, 2x SATA-HD, SB0092+LD, XP/sp3 Last edited by geraldandreas; Jun 3, 2003 at 07:54 AM.

Jun 6, 2003, 04:10 AM	#17
Orion DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 3 Rep Power: 0	Apic / NT Windows (N)ext (T)errorisation... hehe Anyway my brainless motherboard also forces all / most PCI cards to IRQ 9, when using the APIC HAL drivers. I too installed the old HAL drivers at some time, and woaah, my geforce and my live's performance went straight up, must be that time i got 2ms out of KX ASIO...? hmm i don't remember quite. Must be a bug in the APIC chipset, coz its the same issue in Linux with APIC enabled, not a Gates screwup this time i think.... but but.... Anyw.. i used the old non APIC HAL drivers for awhile , but soon got tired of having to push the off button on my PC at each time i'd shutdown... But sure... replacing the WinNT/2K/XP HAL drivers speed things up, also remeber, that not all PCI slots support BUS MASTERING, and some even share IRQ's (Hardwired)... So for an ultimate performance boost: 1.) Try your soundcard in each and all PCI slots, till you find the slot which gives the best performance / latency.. 2.) Replace the HAL drivers, from "ACPI / APIC" to "Standard PC / non ACPI" HAL to unlock the stoopid IRQ9 Force sharing (Found on the WinCD:\i386) 3.) Now Experiment with KX ASIO Latency accessible from the tray icon.. And blah blah blah....

Jun 6, 2003, 06:43 AM	#18
Sidhu DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Delhi, India Posts: 22 Rep Power: 0	if someone can gimme a good link to understanding how ure MOBO deals with IRQ`s.. n also i have a P3 500, and my VST applet does show that i have a 2.33Ms latency.. although im pretty sure thats not the case... so how does one go about really knowing what latency hez achieving. thank you.

Jun 8, 2003, 02:17 AM	#20
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,119 Rep Power: 75	the best way to find the answer is to try that the worst thing that might happen is a hang/reboot I haven't tested unstandard buffer sizes, but any reasonable value might work /Eugene

Jun 17, 2003, 12:21 AM	#21
Chickenbum DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7 Rep Power: 0	I get a rock stable 2ms with kx drivers, i use live audio inputs with amplitube and my guitar, works a treat my hardware is AMD XP2400+ Proc 1gb ddr2700 Sblive CT470 i think GIGABYTE GA-7VAXP-A ULTRA Socket A Software FLstudio 4.1 Kx drivers (latest version) amplitube