gtardirt

Hi
Can someone tell me which of the Audigy cards on the kx compatibility list allow four analog sources to be recorded discretely in an asio application instead of just the two that an Sblive's AC97 allows?

I'd also like to know if connecting a LiveDrive to an Audigy will allow four more analog sources to be recorded. Would connecting one to an Sblive! allow four additional analog sources to that card as well?

Is it true that a Live! Drive for an Sblive! will also work with an Audigy?

Thanks for any help.

Maddogg6

My Audigy 2 ZS Platinum (with Live drive) has:
2 - AC97 based analog inputs
2 - I2C based analog inputs (Line 2/Mic 2 & Aux 2)

for a total of 8 mono or 4 Stereo analog inputs I can record all discreetly onto separate tracks in Sonar with kX ASIO. And it works very well. (well, the AC97 based inputs are not as good as the I2S)

PLUS - I also have:
1 - Coax/Optical SPDIF (My guitar processor)
1 - CD Digital input (From another kX card)

*without* the live drive (aka 'non-platinum version of A2ZS) you only have 2 stereo AC97 based analog inputs + CD Digital SPDIF input.


You can use another card as ether a sort of SUBMIXER - with one SPDIF from live to Audigy - SPDIF only carries stereo data.
if you connect multiple SPDIF you can have more discrete channels - but what is the point unless you have the live drive on the live, and send 3 SPDIF from the live to the Audigy.

Keeping in mind - SBLives never have 2 AC97 inputs discrete - this is only on cards with the AC97-2 (aka UDA codec).

I think there are differences, but possibly a mod exists to convert LD1 to an LD2..??

dj_stick

the Live and audigy 1 series share the same AUD_EXT header so live drives are compatible across the series

the audigy 2 introduced a different, incompatible header

sb live stereo inputs: AC97, Line In 2*, Aux In 2*
audigy stereo inputs: AC97, AC97 2 (UDA), Line In 2*, Aux In 2*

*requires front bay drive

and both the audigy and live have 3 spdif inputs - so with a Live, an Audigy and two Live Drive 2 or higher you can get up to 10 inputs at once

__________________

gtardirt

Hi Maddogg. Thanks for responding.

Don't you mean I2S instead of I2C?

Assuming the kx mixer's "ins 'n' outs" page for your Audigy is the same as the one for my SB Live:

1. Where on or in your pc do you connect devices that can be controlled with the I2S fader on the "ins 'n' outs" page?

2. Same question for the Aux 2 fader, for the Line 2 fader, and for the AC97 fader.

Maddogg6

Yes, I2C is something different - I meant I2S

The live Drive II that makes my A2ZS a 'platinum'

Line 2/Mic2 & Aux2 are both Live Drive input
AC97 based inputs - Are the ones located physically on the sound card - Line 1 is on the metal bracket and thus accessable outside of the PC Case - While the Aux, CD Input (etc..) are on the card edge inside the PC.

gtardirt

1. Is this true of *all* the Audigy cards on the kx compatibility list?

2. Where do you connect the hardware that the "AC97 2 (UDA)" provides functionality for?

Thanks. You've cleared things up quite a bit for me.

gtardirt

Hi Maddogg,

On which port on your Live Drive II can you connect hardware that would be controlled by the I2S fader?

If you didn't have a Live Drive, where would you connect two stereo analog devices that could be recorded discretely?

Thanks again. I appreciate your taking the time. I hope it won't take too many more questions before I have a clear idea of things. I'm definitely making progress.

Maddogg6

Aux 2 - is 2 RCA female connectors, it is a typical consumer line level input, and is controlled by the lower right most slider in the kX mixer Ins & Outs Page labeled 'AUX 2'

Line2/Mic - is a 1/4" stereo Female Connector, and is controlled by the the 3rd fader from the right - on the same lower row on the same kX mixer page labeled 'Line2'.

Those are 'AC97' based inputs....
In other words - all the inputs *not* on the live drive...
You can use a combination of 2 out of the following:
Line IN (Rear of card - metal braket a stereo 3.5mm female jack)
CD Analog In (Card edge, inside PC - I dont know the name of the connector type)
Aux In (Card edge, inside PC - I dont know the name of the connector type)
Mic In (Card edge, inside PC - I dont know the name of the connector type)
Tad In (Card edge, inside PC - I dont know the name of the connector type)

Note: 'Card Edge' = the edge of the sound card it self.

1 will be an AC97 and the other will be AC97-2 - and you need to use an updated ProFx Plugin from lex - here:
ProFx Version 3.x
in order to use 2 (edit: to use 4 mono) ac97 inputs discreetly - kX by default does not allow this ability.

Maddogg6

Also...
This is not correct - an SBLive can *only* record 1 ac97 input at a time discreetly.
That is - 2 mono inputs at a time. Yo can split L/R between 2 different inputs, but only stereo can be recorded discretely at one time.

gtardirt

Hi Maddogg,

I asked you:

On which port on your Live Drive II can you connect hardware that would be controlled by the I2S fader?

Your response:

Aux 2 - is 2 RCA female connectors, it is a typical consumer line level input, and is controlled by the lower right most slider in the kX mixer Ins & Outs Page labeled 'AUX 2'

Line2/Mic - is a 1/4" stereo Female Connector, and is controlled by the the 3rd fader from the right - on the same lower row on the same kX mixer page labeled 'Line2'.

I think the confusion here is because I have a fader labeled "ZVideo I2S" on the "ins 'n' outs" page for my SB Live. That's what I was referring to when I said "I2S fader," which I assumed you had as well for your Audigy. I'm assuming now that I assumed wrongly that you had a fader so labeled. Further searching on the forums suggests to me that I should just forget I even have such a fader and that there's any significance at all to the use of the term "I2S" anywhere in the kx mixer for an SB Live card.

I then asked:

If you didn't have a Live Drive, where would you connect two stereo analog devices that could be recorded discretely?

Your response...

...appears to be accurate and comprehensive and in agreement with the greater understanding I feel I've achieved over the past few hours of forum searching on these issues. Thank you so much.

So now, I think what I'll do is start looking for an Audigy and a Live Drive. If I find a Live Drive "I" first, I can use that with my SB Live to have six mono inputs until I can find an Audigy 1, which will allow me eight, using that as the only card in the system. If a Live Drive "II" is easier to find, I'd get that and an Audigy 2, assuming it's a Live Drive II that will work with the different header on the Audigy 2 series (please correct any wrong assumptions here). That will also give me eight inputs. If I want ten (or more) inputs, I can reinstall the SB Live and connect it digitally (spdifally ) to the Audigy. I understand this can be done, but I haven't determined conclusively yet whether there would be syncing/timing issues involved with doing so. I'd be grateful if you or someone could address that.

There's one other thing I'm curious about, if someone has the time...

On the AUD_EXT header of an SB Live there are pins for line2 and aux2 from the Live Drive, right? In what format is the signal they get? Is it spdif, and would that mean there are even *more* spdif inputs on the card than than the ones (3?) people usually talk about here?

Thanks again, and PLEASE correct any errors in understanding you see in this post. Anyone!

gtardirt

I had written:

instead of just the two that an Sblive's AC97 allows?

I was referring to *mono* analog sources. Sorry for the confusion.

Max M.

>there are pins for line2 and aux2 from the Live Drive, right? In what format is the signal they get?

I2S.
(check out TravelRec.'s site, there you'll find some useful info)

[color=gray]
p.s. and don't miss http://www.hardwareheaven.com/general-...your-card.html
there're actually lotsa topics on all that in "General" section of this forum - just search for "inputs" in subject[/color]

p.p.s
>assuming it's a Live Drive II that will work with the different header on the Audigy 2 series

No:
Live!/Audigy -> AUD_EXT -> LiveDriveI/LiveDriveII
Audigy2 -> AD_EXT -> "Audigy2 Drive" (has same I/O as LDII has, but with incompatible pin-out)

__________________

gtardirt

I just did. I've been there before too, but now it's making more sense to me. It looks like if you can't find a Live Drive, you can make converters that accomplish the same thing--and more!
[COLOR=gray]
[/COLOR]Yes, "inputs" is one of the keywords I've been searching on and has made a big contribution to what I've been learning here lately.

Got it! Thanks, Max!!

By the way, do you know what UDA stands for?

Max M.

>By the way, do you know what UDA stands for?

"UDA" is just a shortcut for "Philips UDA1361", that additional ADC chip present on the PCI card itself (e.g. the one referred to as "AC97 2 input" in kxmixer (don't be confused "UDA" is not the "AC97", it is an ordinary ADC chip - it's just its input that is connected to the analog output of the AC97))

__________________

Maddogg6

Hmm - I didnt realize there were 3 versions - or 4 if including the Platinum EX one. My apologies.

Maddogg6

it is in I2S format on the AD-EXT.

Max M.

Maddogg6
[color=gray]
hehe, there're much more then that
there were very first "Live Platinum"s with "digital i/o" "extenders" (- just spdif in/out - doh! sold for $100 in 1998/99)
Later - "a platinum ex", "a2 platinum ex", "a2zs platinum pro" and over and over again used incompatible connectors... - but these can be ignored as they require dedicated PCI board (e.g. you can't use them with an ordinary card anyway)
[/color]
speaking of titles - i don't know if "Audigy2 Drive" had any official title - it's just the drive marked "Audigy2"

__________________

TravelRec.

Old SBLives have one SPIDF input plus CD-SPDIF plus 3x I2S on AUD_EXT, newer SBLives have 2 SPDIF ins plus CD-SPDIF and 3x I2S on AUD_EXT. Note: The I2S inputs must be synchronized to the card´s clock (AUD_EXT pin4) and they are not resampled before passing the DSP. I2S ins are stereo. SBLives without AUD_EXT are only have one SPDIF input and maybe a second as CD-SPDIF.

__________________
Always take a look behind.

gtardirt

Are the spdif inputs resampled? If so, would that mean there would be no timing problems if other cards are connected via spdif?

gtardirt

This from Nappylady on Aug. 8, 2005 seems to answer my question...

As a matter of definitions, I think it's important to point out that when you chain Live! cards together, you are not syncronizing them. Each card automatically resamples SPDIF inputs to its own master clock, so when you go to your application (e.g. Cubase SX, Reason, etc.) the application only interacts with one ("master") sound card--and thus, only deals with one clock. The "slave" soundcards are not synced to the "master" sound card; they still go at their own clock rate; just the "master" makes up for it by resampling their output to match its own clock rate.

Can Nappylady get an Amen?

TravelRec.

The SPDIF inputs on AUD_EXT are resampled, but not the I2S. These are directly routed to the DSP. If your card has I2S inputs available (only newer SBLive! and Audigy) and you can manage to clock all cards from only one crystal, then they are synced.

__________________
Always take a look behind.

g000fy

what do you mean by this?
my sound card is similar to yours i have the sb a2zs plat pro
im talking about what do you do with your guitar and the optical/coax inputs?

Maddogg6

I have an external Guitar effects processor (Johnson J-Station) that:
1) has built in amp/cab simulation
2) has a digital output - which means no chance for the introduction of noise between the effects processor and my soundcards input. Any analog audio can be susceptible to noise being introduced between involved components.

Of course, there's little I can do to eliminate noise introduced between the guitar and the effects processor - but every little bit helps.

g000fy

thats a neat little device.
does it also work for vocals by any chance?
i mean through its digital output?

Maddogg6

Yes it can - but I would still need some sort of preamp before it.
And its not ideal because of the impedance differences.
There are better for that tho ... Line 6 has one (or more??) that has a mic input along with the guitar input and digital output. Look at the POD X3 Live
Line 6 - POD Family

Its more aimed at live performances tho - being a floor unit - but also has USB audio device for 'recording' too. ?? I never played with one, tho I would like to some time.