SGProd

I've been running Reaper for ~ a year now on my DAW using an Audigy2-Platinum ZS Platinum [SB360 10k2] (the one with the breakout box) and kxProject drivers (v3545). My OS drive crashed 4 weeks ago - I've replaced it 3 weeks ago and have been siunce restoring/reinstalling all my recording apps utilities, VSTs, etc. to their original locations.

Last night I was finally in a position to fire up the last projects I was working on in Reaper before the HD crash. Lo and behold, on average 30-45 seconds into any track the Audigy2 starts going haywire. ie - the audio playback begins to slow down as it becomes more distorted til playback halts and the card sounds like it's gone into oscillation (almost like turning up the feedback level to full on a digital delay). Same thing happens when running VSTIs in standalone mode (ie - Omnisphere, Sampletank 2.5, BigTick Angelina, NI Absynth & Massive, Cakewalk Rapture, etc.)

However, I can play DVD, CD and MP3 audio all day through it at 9 - 9.5 (read: ear-splitting) levels and the audio system performs fine. But try play anything pertaining to ASIO and - back to serious badness.

What I've tried:
- Triple checked the kxDSP and Mixer settings for anomalies like erroneous multi outs sharing the same in, etc. All checked out there - I typically save my DSP configs mnthly, so I just needed to reload the one in use before the crash. (yes, I was an IT techie for 20 years before diving headfirst into the deepend of project recording. And I'm still trying to keep my epilogs and prologs straight )
- Next, a full system scan with McAfee, Malwarebytes, CCleaner & Root Repeal. These came up clean.
- DriverClean.net, then reinstalled kxProject v3545. No joy.
- Another DriverClean.net, then installed the most current kxProject v3548. Still No joy.

it would be tremendous if I could get this fixed before tomorrow afternoon's sessions- and I plan to put in the whole night working on it if I have to (hey - what's another night with no sleep ).

Trouble is I've run out of ideas to try. I'm really hoping someone in the expert pool here can weigh in with some other possible directions.

My system:
WindowsXP-SP3
Quadcore 9550 on Gigabyte EP45-DS3R mb,
4GB RAM, using the /3GB switch in boot.ini
4.5TB Storage on 4 hard drives.
My storage is set up as follows:
C:\ (new/750GB-32Mb Cache)= OS, apps and VST/VSTi executables
D:\ (9mo. old/750GB-16Mb Cache)= All audio and working project data
E:\ (8mo. old/1.5TB-32Mb Cache)= all VSTI Sample Libraries & Data (Garritan, Miroslav, Sampletank, Omnisphere, drum kits, etc.)
Z:\ (3mo. old/1.5TB-32Mb Cache)= Data backup & Level 1 Archival

Thanks.

Russ

I would try the following:

Check the Sync Format in the ASIO Control Panel to be sure it is the same that you used previously.

Check your System Performance settings (Processor Scheduling and Memory Usage, etc). IIRC, it is recommended that Processor Scheduling is set for Background Services, and Memory Usage is set for Programs.

Defrag your hard drive.

Check Device Manager in Safe Mode, and make sure that you do not have devices listed more than once (unless you have more than 1 of that device), or devices listed that you do not have, etc.

SGProd

Hi Russ,
Thanks - already set on the 1st 2 points. I set up all my DAWs from the start according to recommendations of http://www.musicxp.net/dnn/
And I keep Ashampoo Magic Defrag running when the DAW is not in use.

I will look at that third one tho and post back as to how I made out.

SGProd

Just got done checking for duplicate devices in Safe mode (including all hidden devices).
No duplicate devices found.

Weird thing happened when I booted back out of Safe mode - the 3548 drivers began issuing the dreaded "Error initializing WinMM subsystem" messages. Booted up 2X more - same thing. Luckily I had a System restore point set to go back to before I updated the drivers from 3545. So now I at least have some audio, altho I still cannot perform any DAW recording/mixing tasks. Serious Bummin'...

So now that it's back to 3545 - I'm open to any more suggestions on the oscillation/overload issue.

I'm starting to think that my relationship with this Audigy 2 card is close to it's end. I've had it since 2003, and it's clearly given me my share of grief. It's a shame 'cause using it with the kx drivers has definitely opened up to me a world of potential for its use. But potential means nothing without actual execution. And it just ain't bringin' the goods without way too much coaxing.

SGProd

Russ -
Do you think this might have anything to do with the existing greater than 2GB limitation issue? Is there something I should look at in the KX tray -> settings -> setup buffers area?

Tyrsonswood

Not Russ and don't mean to barge in here.... I was thinking it was the 2 gig deal myself, but with other content playing normal I didn't say anything. It uaually, from what I've read, effects all sound, not just ASIO.......

I wouldn't rule it out though, as this 2gig issue can seem somewhat random, effecting some systems and not others, some OS but not others (on the same system). With a fresh install of your OS, even though it's not "different" it may have changed where it loads the buffers into memory.....

__________________

SGProd

Hey Man -
You're definitely not barging in - I just happened to call out to Russ cause he's the only one that answered so far. But your advice is certainly as appreciated anyone's. i mean after all, this is a forum right?

Yes I had a feeling that system config would change drastically after OS reinstall, as all my sys id installation codes also changed when I was reinstalling the VSTs...

So would you happen to know if there's a guide around that might shed some light on what I'm messing with in these buffers? I just don't want to make a bad situation worse if i can help it. I did a site search on "kx setup buffers" and have yet to find what I need to suss out these specific settings. And the included Help file has no refernce to them that i can see.

BTW - Diggin your trax on your Chrome Crow page - Have 'em playin right now on my studio's internet machine...

Russ

AFAIK, the 2 GB issue should not affect ASIO in 3545b (and you said that your other music plays fine), so I do not think that is it (though it may have something to do with the WinMM subsystem error message that you mentioned (BTW: You probably should not use the /3GB switch until this issue is resolved)).

What you describe sounds exactly like the way ASIO used to work for me, in older versions of kX (like before 3538L), but I have not had any real problems with it since then...

You might try moving the card to another PCI slot (if possible). It is possible that there is an issue with the hardware resources that it got assigned when reinstalling, and moving it to another slot should give it different i/o addresses (and possibly a different IRQ), etc.

Have you tried booting into Windows without anti-virus software, etc running, just to make sure that some other application (that starts with windows) is not causing problems (i.e. when my av software checks for updates, etc it brings my whole system to a crawl). Use MSCONFIG to (temporarily) disable other programs from starting with Windows, etc, to rule that stuff out.

I do not know... Are you having any other problems with your system (unrelated to audio). i.e. System running slow or hanging, etc? Do you know what caused your hard drive to die? Could there be an issue with the hard drive controller or cable? Have you checked your system temps? If your system is running hot, it can cause all kinds of issues (i.e. premature failure of hard drives and/or other hardware, system slow downs, etc). Again, I do not know, you said you are an IT guy, so this is probably nothing new to you, but it cannot hurt to check it out (ASIO is fairly CPU intensive, so you would likely notice problems there before you would notice it in some other places).

SGProd

Yeah well - figured it was another avenue for opportunity to resolution.

Haven't received anymore WinMM subsystem error messages since fixing that 1st one with system restore.

In My OP I forgot to mention that I also tried swapping the card to the only other available slot. Even less joy there since in addition to the sound card issue persisting, it also caused all sorts of havoc with USB peripherals (iPod docker, GI-20, Korg microKontrol, etc).

Yes I actually have been doing all this troubleshooting with McAfee & Teatimer shut off via msconfig. Mainly cause when running full swing, both apps deny access to any system changes I need to make in the trobleshooting process.

Overall, the System zips along quite nicely. In normal idle CPU utilization barely goes above 2%, and even running a track in Reaper in full tilt with 26 audio and 10 MIDI tracks with 5 VSTIs and 2-3 VSTs per track it still doesn't go above 25-27% per CPU. Monitoring no significant spikes on PF or Memory usage either. AFAIK the original hard drive died due to isolated defect (which is being replaced by Seagate without issue). I monito temps with a Hardcano 12SE and temps are not exceeding 95-105F even under load.

But yes Russ, these are all great points you've called out, and if nothing else, it at least confirms in my my that I've undergone appropriate due diligence protocol in troubleshooting this mess. And that we think alike.

What's been done since my last post:
- Ran my session using my VS1680. will tranfer the audio tracks over to DAW once the sound is flying right again in whatever shape or form
- Completely uninstalled all Audigy kx driver files with Drivercleaner.net.
- reseated the Audigy card in it's slot.
- since 3545 wasn't working for decided to go up to the new 3549 drivers Eugene put up recently - thinking that maybe a fix for the >2gb limit might help.
- loaded the custom DSP config I've been using for a year (that actually you helped me set up about a year ago!)
- Configured Setup Buffers to PB BufferSz= 8352, #of AC3 Buffers=8 and leaving the rest at their defaults. did a kx setting save (all boxes checked)
- Immediately noticed that the driver now calls my card "3549 (Generic)" and that the connectors on the Prolog in the new DSP no longer describe the outputs (ie. Line1L & R, SPDIF L & R, etc.). Luckily my backed up settings retored my routings as I now nolonger can tell what connector corresponds to what signal.
- Opened up the tracks I was having problems with. They played in their entirety with no issue. Yay.
- Immediately set a System restore point.
- Rebooted to make sure this wasn't just a fluke.
- Found I had to reload by backed up kx DSP config again (kx used to retain previous settings fro boot-to-boot)
- tried playing those tracks again in Reaper.
- Found that the oscillation issues are back.
- Restored from the System Restore point I had just set
- tried playing those tracks again in Reaper.
- Found that the oscillation issues are still back.

So now, at a complete loss as to what the issue is, I am pondering options for next steps. Continue bangin my head against the Audigy2 concrete wall? Say "screw-it" and go M-Audio?
Dunno...

But regardless of what I come up with... One of the primary ones defintely involves a nap as - I've gotten maybe 4 hours sleep in 3 days trying to fix this.

I expect I should be back online by ~ 10am EST tho, since this will def be giving me nightmares anyway...

SGProd

I'm Baaaack....

OK so - Just for giggles I installed the most current native Creative Audigy drivers I could find ( 6.0.1.1370, dated 03/04/09).
Result: The audio playback in both Creative ASIO and ASIO4ALL worked flawlessly at a latency of 8ms (which is plenty for me) and the master volume pinned to 10. Unfortunately in this config I obviously lose my kxDSP as well as discrete access to the additional inputs.

So I guess now I need to figure out how far back I need to go in kxDriver releases that will work on my system.
Without going into overload.
And still keep the meaningful connection descriptors in DSP.

Looks like another long night ahead of me here...

Russ

I do not know, it is a tricky one.... It worked fine before you hard drive died, so that makes it seem less likely to be related to kX itself, and thus I am not sure that it is going to work any better with any other versions of kX. That seems to only leave things like the following:

Again, a possible hardware issue (from your previous reply, it seems unlikely).

A possible driver issue. e.g. Maybe you installed updated versions of the drivers for some of your other hardware that maybe doesn't play nice, etc? ...or maybe you forgot to install a necessary driver update for your system's chipset, etc?

Again, an issue with hardware resource assignments (but as you know, there is only so much you can do to test this, especially with only 2 PCI slots).

I assume you did not change anything in your computers BIOS, so PCI timing, etc should be the same. You might try disabling any unnecessary hardware in the BIOS (unused COM ports, unused LPT Ports, etc) to free up some more hardware resources, and then reinstall the sound card again, and see if it makes any difference.

Maybe try re-installing DirectX (i.e. force a full re-install of DirectX).

If possible, remove 2GB of RAM from your system, so that we can rule that out for certain.

BTW: There is an option in Reaper to pre-zero the output buffers, you might try enabling that and see if it helps at all.

I do not know, just throwing out some more ideas...

SGProd

Russ - your first point jogged a couple head marbles...

Even before the hard drive went I was unable to bring the system master volume up past 25-30% without overload under kx-3545 as it would do the same thing. (I actually taped a marker on the bottom edge of my screen so I can make sure to keep the level down to where the audio would stay stable). But now it doesn't even matter - 1 bar on the mm-keyboard display is all it takes.
But regardless, as far as kx-versions, I know that i can't go past 3545. As I'm usually a set-it-&-forget-it kind of guy, I need those DSP tool-tip labels to get my bearing as to what's what in the infrequent event I need to re-route something. Either that or I need to pop on Peak Meters for each pr of prolog output connectors to monitor what audio path is or isn't receiving signal.

According to my Driver Genius report my drivers are all up to date except for the 07/14/09 version of the Native Creative driver (which I did download, but the zip archive keeps coming up as corrupted. Thus why I just tested with the 03/04/09 version). I had updated them back in March. But I will check thm all individually in device manager to make sure.

Yah - 2 PCI slots = not much flexibility.

Yeah - BIOS is still the same as I had it was set before - no changes there. I'm not a cutting-edge-overclocker-tweaker type. Don't have that kind of time. I'm more into keeping a stable system that I can count on so I can get some real work done. I will look at the com ports & such as you suggested tho - As well a force a full reinstall of Direct-X.

BTW, I did try that pre-zero option in Reaper. That had no effect on this.

Thanks for all the additional ideas - I really do appreciate it. It at least keeps me grounded/focused - as I think I'm burning out with trying to resolve this.

Will post back with results...

Lex Nahumury

@SGProd
I don't have time to read through those long posts,
and in case russ didn't already mentioned it;
... aren't you simply creating some feedback path in the DSP
(or some 'direct monitoring' switch in your VST host)
Because that's what it looks/sounds like.

SGProd

Hey Lex,
Thanks for the suggestion. I actually just finished re-tracing all my paths (yet again) to make sure that wasn't the case.

My output DSP paths are set to default installation config.

My only changes are to disconnect Line1 L+R, Line2 L+R and Coax/Optical L+R from X-Routing so as to not have double output when recording from any of thos 3 stereo lines. Any and all serial and or parallel Fx routing occurs natively within the VST host and the host only sends 1 L+R pair out to the Audigy2 for monitoring purposes. I like to keep it simple so as to avoid inadvertedly getting my hands crossed.

But yes, you're right in thinking that's what it sounds like. But unless theres somewhere else in the DSP I don't know of that might be overriding what's being displayed, there's one single path of stereo audio being presented to the soundcard.

Russ

Make sure that all of the sliders (except Master Recording Level) on the Recording page of kxmixer are muted (read 'inF'). You might also remove other plugins that you are not using, like p16v, FxMix2, Reverb Lite, Chorus, etc.

I do not know, it sounds exactly like the problem I used to have... I had assumed that some change in kX versions (3538k and up) fixed it, but now I am starting to wonder if maybe there was more to it than that. In my case, the kX config/DSP config absolutely had nothing to do with it. For me, it happened mostly when recording (i.e. using ASIO inputs), after some amount of time, it would seem like it was slowing down, and then I would get a metallic/robotic like sound on top of the input sound, and shortly after that, there would be only an oscillating metallic sound (kind of hard to describe), and it seemed almost as if the whole system had froze up, but it didn't (and BTW: the noise would not get recorded).

As for the Master Volume thing, that is strange as well... Are/Were you applying any additional gain in the DSP?

peate

Thought I would step in and give my two cents worth.

Seeing as it worked with Creative's drivers, that would seem to eliminate any hardware issues. Since you are using XP, that also eliminates the ram allocation problem which only concerns Vista and Win7 AKAIK. If the occiliation only occurs after a certain time, that would eliminate feedback I guess since it's usually pretty instantaneous, in my experience anyways.

My suggestion is, try an older version of kX. Go to the site listed below and try 3537, or even older with 3534f. I'm using a version of 3538 and it works fine on my machine with XP, you can search the Forum for that version. I think mine is L but I'm not 100% sure since it's been a while since I installed it but the about dialogue shows a build date of Jan 23 2006. I don't really trust the new versions yet, LOL.

kX-project support site by TravelRec.


Good luck anyways.

Tyrsonswood

Some of the older versions, like 3534, may not support the Audigy2 cards, but 3538 or there abouts would be okay.

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SGProd

Hey Guys,
I really appreciate all your suggestions.

Russ -
What you describe is exactly what's been happening here. Except in my case it's not limited to just the recording end of DAW use, but also the playback end. However other media apps (Media Player, VLC, etc.) work fine. So this def has to do with ASIO getting into the mix.
AFA extra gain - I tried to keep the DSP as default as possible and streamlining from there (removing plugins & inputs I don't use, etc.). So no, no extra gain to the card via DSP.

But I did manage to move the Audigy2 to the other PCI slot. I also found some 8/29/09 Intel chipset driver releases and installed those. But still no joy.

Peate & Tyrsonswood -
38 hours ago I began regression installations of 3549, 3548, 3545b, 3544a, 3543, 3541, & 3538j. Datz alotta driver cleaners & reboots. I thought I was onto something with the 3541 install till I got to the end of my Reaper test track and the slow-down robot audio happened again.

So yesterday evening, finding myself well into my 6th day of this resolution process, I knew I had to get out of thinking in this box. Knowing that the Creative drivers worked fine I did some more searching. I did some reading on the YouP PAX forum and ultimately decided to try his 6.50 drivers along with installing my original native Creative supporting apps (Surround Mixer, EAX Console, Audio HQ, THX console, etc.) along with ASIO4ALL for recording. Yes, I lose the kxDSP, the kx mixer, the I2S access, etc. But none of that does me any good anyway if it doesn't work due to my (apparently) unique machine config issues.

So now as of 5 hours ago I finally have an audio path that's passed my Reaper playback & recording tests, gives me a simple interface to select input sourcses, works consistently & at low enough latency (6.8ms with 384 samples @ 48000Hz) from reboot-to-reboot and, most importantly -

Gets my primary studio DAW back up & running again.

I'll continue checking back in here in the kxProject forum and, once I have some lull-time for my DAW I will re-address trying to get the kxaudio stuff.

But for now, I just want to express my appreciation for you all your collective time and suggestions in trying to help me sort through all this.

And I'm sure you'll appreciate not having to wade through more of my long posts.

Thanks!

__________________
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peate

No problem. I think most of us enjoy reading about individual problems and finding solutions. We all learned kX that way I'm sure, through trial and error. Good luck with your projects.