ASIO underruns cause of what?

Behaviour · Dec 26, 2009, 03:31 PM

I have a system based on: athlon x2 5600+, gigabyte ga-ma78gm-s2h, 2gb 800mhz dual ram, sb0220, ati radeon hd4650, samsung 250 (p)ata disk, amacrox psu and others (ethernet card + ethernet integrated on mobo enabled). i had installed system from january 2009 and everything was fine.. but i had to reinstall it cause of some problems...
after it i got some problems with kX and asio. almost whole configuration of system was same (maybe different drivers for graphic card and mobo(? there are drivers for SMBus and that's all in driver maganement). I have also amd dualcore optimizer.
Now i discovered that asio, no matter on what sync mode is underruning and clicking at 16ms (before system installation on SMP in flstudio i got 2ms and it was almost fine). I discovered also that cracking or underruning goes when for ex. i write or delete some letters on notepad (dual core, but notepad is making some glitches, funny? eh), but when i minimize application with asio there's also no underruns.
So so. I tried many things, increasing pci latency, increasing latency in KX (on 60ms glitches cannot be noticed or there are gone).
Dunno. Could it be WINDOWS GRAPHIC related problem.. when i use mixvibes (soft for mp3 mixing) and i'm looking for mp3's on both partitions and i change those in explorer there are also glitches.. sometimes when i'm entering some folder for mp3 there are also glitches (more folders = more probability of glitch).
BUT surely, could it be graphic related problem.. but dunno why, before installing the system i tried many drivers for radeon cause i had big problem with card (ended with replace to new card).. so i'm not sure if it's drivers related problem. Really dunno why.
The most weird problem is, i have second computer with sempron 2800+, asus a7n8x, 1,5gb 400mhz ddr ram, 40gb seagate disk, geforce4mx, fortron psu.. and also sb0220, on that system, from beginning i have SAME problems with mixvibes and mp3 exploring. i thought it could be some disk access problems (i had more disks connected) but still not. changing sync in kx asio also dosen't solve the problem...
weird thing is: i returned home and noticed it's SAME problem on both systems, with whole other hardware..
system is winxp sp2, with disabled many unnesecary services, on comp with sempron i have disabled windows themes.kx asio on 44 and 48khz (2+0 output but 16+16 also) but still dunno.
I'm pretty sure on both computers long time ago that problem didn't existed.
Anyone can solve it?

Russ · Dec 26, 2009, 03:52 PM

I do not know, but the first thing I would try to rule out is other applications (like AV software, etc).

i.e.
Use MSConfig to (temporarily) disable all non-essential (for testing) programs and services (e.g. disabling all non-Microsoft services is a good starting point) from starting with Windows. Reboot and test. If the problem goes away, enable things one by one and test until you figure out what was causing the problem.

BTW: If your system(s) uses 'Cool and Quiet' or 'Speedstep', you might try disabling them as they could be limiting your clock speed, etc.

Behaviour · Dec 31, 2009, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

I do not know, but the first thing I would try to rule out is other applications (like AV software, etc).

i.e.
Use MSConfig to (temporarily) disable all non-essential (for testing) programs and services (e.g. disabling all non-Microsoft services is a good starting point) from starting with Windows. Reboot and test. If the problem goes away, enable things one by one and test until you figure out what was causing the problem.

BTW: If your system(s) uses 'Cool and Quiet' or 'Speedstep', you might try disabling them as they could be limiting your clock speed, etc.

i tried almost everything tonight.
disabling av software, non-essential aplications & services (almost everything). i end at trying to install other kx drivers version (i had 3550, i installed 3541). problem is still there..
for sure: notepad from windows: scrolling (slowly) down long text file does a glitches, if i would to record sound with sound forge there's more probability to hear the glitch.
i tried also to, switch memory timings to better performance, disable onboard sound, and use other windows user account but it dosen't help me at all.
i got HT so i tried to use kX asio in user/SMP mode (or krnl/SMP), also with 'optimize asio for ht/smp' option enabled. it also didn't helped.
as i see.. there's something strange (or maybe it's only me): whatever i select in sync of kX asio, performance is still same probably, but i'm not sure about it...
i also switched radeon gpu and memory clocks to original 600/700 (when graphic card isn't used clocks are slower). and i'm not sure but it might helped me A BIT.
i tried to check if i really have cool'n'quiet running and surely, it wasn't running in my system (i got power scheme as default). so it's also not a source of problem..
i'm also not sure, but probably on SAME installation of windows (but in november) everything was fine (i think: i recorded some music sets in that month and i probably i didn't noticed there any glitches, then my computer wasn't used for more than month, and when i back at home problem appeard).
anything else?

Russ · Dec 31, 2009, 12:31 PM

Is it continuous underruns, or only when you are doing other things during ASIO playback/recording? I think some underruns (e.g. when switching applications, etc) can be expected. Also, if your CPU utilization is really high, you are more likley to have underruns.

Check out this page (pertains to FL Studio, but also has some general info): Improving FL Studio Performance

Behaviour · Jan 1, 2010, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

Is it continuous underruns, or only when you are doing other things during ASIO playback/recording? I think some underruns (e.g. when switching applications, etc) can be expected. Also, if your CPU utilization is really high, you are more likley to have underruns.

Check out this page (pertains to FL Studio, but also has some general info): Improving FL Studio Performance

It's isn't continuous. Only when i do other things during asio playback (only, i use mme recording), but the most problem is, when i use soft for mixing i.e. traktor, mixvibes i need to open another and another mp3, when i'm exploring disk for mp3 underruns are most inconvenient and i can't use software without it. Yup, those excepting underruns are obvious.. but i'm 100% sure there wasn't any glitches before windows reinstalling. And for sure: CPU utilization isn't really high. It's about 10-50% in fl (depends on how much vst plugins are used) and almost 0% in mixvibes.
Mixvibes has option that loads mp3 track to memory, without that option checked tracks we're SEPARATELY underruning and glitching, probably of structure of this program. When i had this option checked tracks we're playing fine, but after system reinstalling everything got bad.. tracks are separately or both underruning, that's the most weird thing.. and also that shows maybe it's some memory (ram or windows swap) problem..
i also thought it could be system use of dual core problem, cause when one core is used for playback, another should be used for i.e. disk exploring. but on another computer with one core (sempron 2800+) problem is SAME.. so what's now?
BTW i discovered now, when i check user/SMP sync, CPU load in mixvibes is 50% (100% for one core) and when i select user/timer, cpu load is almost 0. any hint?

Russ · Jan 3, 2010, 03:14 PM

I do not know, I do not really use ASIO like you do. I am usually only working with one application at a time while recording, etc.

Another bottleneck is disk access and you mention issues with browsing for mp3's: Defrag your hard drive and disable any power saving options that power down your drives, etc.

I would suggest searching for info on optimizing your PC for audio:
e.g.
Optimizing Windows 2000 and Windows XP for Audio

As for the sync options, I really do not know, the default works the best for me (BTW: my system is pretty old), but the idea is to try them all and see which one works best for you.

Lex Nahumury · Jan 4, 2010, 04:17 AM

Perhaps this utility may help you track down what causes your dropouts;
Forum - SOUND ON SOUND : PC Music
DPC Latency Checker

Behaviour · Jan 7, 2010, 12:53 PM

DPC latency checker didn't noticed any higher latency than 120-150.
anything i do.. it's almost constant. but i noticed that when i have that program enabled and i'm going to kX asio settings then latency goes to higher than 9000.
is it only my computer? or it's normal thing?

Russ · Jan 7, 2010, 03:10 PM

Opening the kX ASIO Control Panel does not appear to have any effect on DPC latency for me.

Behaviour · Jan 8, 2010, 01:41 PM

nope.
kX setting wasn't noticeable on machine with sempron 2800 (but glitches are almost same). but on machine with x2 5600 if i'm playing mp3 from mixvibes latency goes to 500-800, and when i'm entering text from keyboard (for ex notepad or this forum) it goes to >56000.
weird.
edit:
i stopped mixvibes which uses asio and still:
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5642/21851907.png
wtf.
low latency was noticeable but i don't really know why.. there wasn't any process which could make it.

Dec 26, 2009, 03:31 PM	#1
Behaviour HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40 Rep Power: 0	ASIO underruns cause of what? I have a system based on: athlon x2 5600+, gigabyte ga-ma78gm-s2h, 2gb 800mhz dual ram, sb0220, ati radeon hd4650, samsung 250 (p)ata disk, amacrox psu and others (ethernet card + ethernet integrated on mobo enabled). i had installed system from january 2009 and everything was fine.. but i had to reinstall it cause of some problems... after it i got some problems with kX and asio. almost whole configuration of system was same (maybe different drivers for graphic card and mobo(? there are drivers for SMBus and that's all in driver maganement). I have also amd dualcore optimizer. Now i discovered that asio, no matter on what sync mode is underruning and clicking at 16ms (before system installation on SMP in flstudio i got 2ms and it was almost fine). I discovered also that cracking or underruning goes when for ex. i write or delete some letters on notepad (dual core, but notepad is making some glitches, funny? eh), but when i minimize application with asio there's also no underruns. So so. I tried many things, increasing pci latency, increasing latency in KX (on 60ms glitches cannot be noticed or there are gone). Dunno. Could it be WINDOWS GRAPHIC related problem.. when i use mixvibes (soft for mp3 mixing) and i'm looking for mp3's on both partitions and i change those in explorer there are also glitches.. sometimes when i'm entering some folder for mp3 there are also glitches (more folders = more probability of glitch). BUT surely, could it be graphic related problem.. but dunno why, before installing the system i tried many drivers for radeon cause i had big problem with card (ended with replace to new card).. so i'm not sure if it's drivers related problem. Really dunno why. The most weird problem is, i have second computer with sempron 2800+, asus a7n8x, 1,5gb 400mhz ddr ram, 40gb seagate disk, geforce4mx, fortron psu.. and also sb0220, on that system, from beginning i have SAME problems with mixvibes and mp3 exploring. i thought it could be some disk access problems (i had more disks connected) but still not. changing sync in kx asio also dosen't solve the problem... weird thing is: i returned home and noticed it's SAME problem on both systems, with whole other hardware.. system is winxp sp2, with disabled many unnesecary services, on comp with sempron i have disabled windows themes.kx asio on 44 and 48khz (2+0 output but 16+16 also) but still dunno. I'm pretty sure on both computers long time ago that problem didn't existed. Anyone can solve it?

Dec 26, 2009, 03:52 PM	#2
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,561 Rep Power: 62	Re: ASIO underruns cause of what? I do not know, but the first thing I would try to rule out is other applications (like AV software, etc). i.e. Use MSConfig to (temporarily) disable all non-essential (for testing) programs and services (e.g. disabling all non-Microsoft services is a good starting point) from starting with Windows. Reboot and test. If the problem goes away, enable things one by one and test until you figure out what was causing the problem. BTW: If your system(s) uses 'Cool and Quiet' or 'Speedstep', you might try disabling them as they could be limiting your clock speed, etc. Last edited by Russ; Dec 26, 2009 at 06:02 PM. Reason: more info

Dec 31, 2009, 12:31 PM	#4
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,561 Rep Power: 62	Re: ASIO underruns cause of what? Is it continuous underruns, or only when you are doing other things during ASIO playback/recording? I think some underruns (e.g. when switching applications, etc) can be expected. Also, if your CPU utilization is really high, you are more likley to have underruns. Check out this page (pertains to FL Studio, but also has some general info): Improving FL Studio Performance Last edited by Russ; Dec 31, 2009 at 12:40 PM.

Jan 3, 2010, 03:14 PM	#6
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,561 Rep Power: 62	Re: ASIO underruns cause of what? I do not know, I do not really use ASIO like you do. I am usually only working with one application at a time while recording, etc. Another bottleneck is disk access and you mention issues with browsing for mp3's: Defrag your hard drive and disable any power saving options that power down your drives, etc. I would suggest searching for info on optimizing your PC for audio: e.g. Optimizing Windows 2000 and Windows XP for Audio As for the sync options, I really do not know, the default works the best for me (BTW: my system is pretty old), but the idea is to try them all and see which one works best for you.

Jan 4, 2010, 04:17 AM	#7
Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,932 Rep Power: 64	Re: ASIO underruns cause of what? Perhaps this utility may help you track down what causes your dropouts; Forum - SOUND ON SOUND : PC Music DPC Latency Checker

Jan 7, 2010, 12:53 PM	Thread Starter #8
Behaviour HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40 Rep Power: 0	Re: ASIO underruns cause of what? DPC latency checker didn't noticed any higher latency than 120-150. anything i do.. it's almost constant. but i noticed that when i have that program enabled and i'm going to kX asio settings then latency goes to higher than 9000. is it only my computer? or it's normal thing?

Jan 7, 2010, 03:10 PM	#9
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,561 Rep Power: 62	Re: ASIO underruns cause of what? Opening the kX ASIO Control Panel does not appear to have any effect on DPC latency for me.

Jan 8, 2010, 01:41 PM	Thread Starter #10
Behaviour HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40 Rep Power: 0	Re: ASIO underruns cause of what? nope. kX setting wasn't noticeable on machine with sempron 2800 (but glitches are almost same). but on machine with x2 5600 if i'm playing mp3 from mixvibes latency goes to 500-800, and when i'm entering text from keyboard (for ex notepad or this forum) it goes to >56000. weird. edit: i stopped mixvibes which uses asio and still: http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5642/21851907.png wtf. low latency was noticeable but i don't really know why.. there wasn't any process which could make it.