How I got 2ms latency without a glitch

JGSF · Feb 9, 2005, 10:52 PM

Hi, I just wanted to share with you how I got 2ms latency rock solid with kx 3538h (I got 2.66 perfect with 3537 too), maybe it can help someone, I don't know...

My system:

-Asus A7N8X-x
-512 Mb Pc3200 OEM
-Athlon XP Tbed-B@2000mhz
-SoundBlaster Audigy 2 Bulk (Sb0244)
-etc... not relevant.

1 - I installed Windows XP without APIC support (when the setup program starts, press the F5 key many times until a menu shows up and then select "standart pc")

2 - After installing, I disabled all the unwanted IRQ-using devices such as ports, network cards, firewire devices, etc.

After checking in the "system information" that my Audigy 2 was using an exclusive IRQ (5 in my case), I installed 3537 and went for 2.66ms. Perfect! Before I had clicks and pops, but now it was fine.

Then I installed 3538h. Although I could play a single sound with 1ms latency without problems, it wasn't possible to play a whole song without pops and clicks. After several experiences, I can now have as low as 2ms in m0 mode (default) and play complete projects without problems.

Hugs.

Nando Dominguez · Feb 10, 2005, 07:47 AM

Thank you Johnny 1982

I've read many things about it. Have you found any disadvantage by using Standard PC mode?

JGSF · Feb 10, 2005, 01:24 PM

Well, since I use this Windows XP installation for music aplications only, I found no disadvantages at all. I also did some tweaks with XPlite and it's lightning fast!

Toadly_Ossum · Feb 10, 2005, 06:03 PM

also have ACPI disabled on my system:

Intel 865 chipset, P4 3Ghz, 1GB DDR400 dual channel, WD 120GB SATA, Audigy with live drive(forget the model at the moment)

Disabling ACPI will loose Hyper Threading on Intels HT CPUs.

Man I cant do 2ms at all (tried 3538 for short time but back to 3537 now) 3537 @ 5.33 runs great for my live setup in which I run Vstack with B4,The Grand, Lounge lizard2, Im also simultainiously running Logic and using EVD6 and EP88 insruments.

Only simple Cubase projects will run at 5.33. For example if I run Guitar Rig and just 1 or 2 other VSTi i start getting pops so i have to start upping the latency to 10ms. When Im done recording and start mixing and adding other effect I typically have to run 20ms or even 40ms.

I think my PC should be performing better than it is. When 3538 is final Im likely to reload my PC with a fresh install and try to achieve the amazing 2ms latencies that some slower PCs are getting.

Question, Is intels Hyper Threading benificial to ASIO in 3538?
Will i be better off to disable ACPI, Loose hyper threading because of classic "ACPI Kills audio performance" arguement?

Toad

JGSF · Feb 10, 2005, 06:58 PM

Check if your audio card is using an exclusive IRQ under "System information".

Toadly_Ossum · Feb 11, 2005, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny1982

Check if your audio card is using an exclusive IRQ under "System information".

SB0090 alone on irq 7.

Toad

TravelRec. · Feb 11, 2005, 08:24 AM

Hi Toad!

Seems your PC is doing some other jobs while you looking away

. Try to disable unused services, try to switch processor power to background tasks (like ASIO is).

Same card here with a PC like below works always smooth with 3537 and 10ms / only recording tasks with 5ms.

Toadly_Ossum · Feb 11, 2005, 02:49 PM

Yes TravelRec Ive have performed all the XP tweaks that are found on the web about optimizing XP based Daws. I suspect that my system just needs a clean reload. When 3538 if final i am going to do a clean reload.

What do you think about disabling ACPI vs leaving it enable so as to keep the hyperthreading.

Toad

**dj_stick** · Feb 11, 2005, 09:42 PM

i think the argument used to be that it was bad for windows 2000 systems, but beneficial for windows XP… you'll have to read up on it though, i'm not sure

TravelRec. · Feb 14, 2005, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toadly_Ossum

What do you think about disabling ACPI vs leaving it enable so as to keep the hyperthreading.

Toad

Not only for HT I think it´s okay to leave ACPI on under XP - I´ve no problems with ACPI, anyway you will loose lot of more features if you disable it. The only trick I´ve done: 2 start-patitions, one for graphic and text applications and one for music only (with no background apps except kX and no USB activity). The working drive for audio files is a complete other HD, so the app runs on E: with C: as windows partition and audio waves are saved on G:, so no waitstates for data loading and saving, both drives are quick´n ready. This way the system works very fine with that PC below.

fvi · Feb 17, 2005, 12:36 PM

Toadly :
- In cubase, under VST Multitrack/Expert settings, did you uncheck "lower latency" ?
(when checked, I used to be stuck at 5.33ms too, I'm easily now at 2ms)
- It seems you only have one hard disk. You can't play vsti using huge samples bank (like the grand) at low latency : the OS, the host and the samples access the same disk!
- you can always compare your DAW perf (or see what you should expect from it) with this test database http://www.moar.net/cubasetest/
btw : my syst is ACPI enabled

JGSF · Feb 19, 2005, 01:41 PM

By the way, you can also deactivate "system restore", and some hardware you don't use. The best choice for me is to have a separate Windows instalation for music applications. If you can you can also try XPlite and deactivate some more unnecessary stuff. It's well worth it.

Toadly_Ossum · Feb 19, 2005, 08:10 PM

Yea Ive done all the XP optimizations you could think of. I do know that i need a second HDD better data thru-put when recording/playing audio tracks. However most of what Im doing is with VSTi which are mostly heavy on RAM/CPU resources.

I might be over estimating what it "should" be able to do. I mean can any ones DAW really run multiple VSTi such as The Grand, Atmosphere, Trilogy, Stylus and Groove Agent tracks at 2ms? These are the most CPU intensive VSTi I use, but typically when song writing I like to use all these instruments together.

Toad

thomasabarnes · Feb 19, 2005, 11:02 PM

Whoa. Atmosphere , Trilogy and Stylus! That's a cool setup. I've been using the Standard PC config and the WinXP optimizaion for a year or more now. And with my system I get 8 ms latency using 3538h, Trilogy and, Edirol HQ Orchestral, Super Quartet, and DR-008. I'm very pleased with this latency. It's great for my work. If I want to use some intense CPU hungry softsynth like Absynth 3, I can just freeze the other softsynths or bounce to audio. A funny thing though. when I use Amplitude on the Trilogy track, I have to disable Amplitube if I want the 8 ms latency to still work during recording, if I dont disable it, latency gets all messed up (huge delay).

**dj_stick** · Feb 19, 2005, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomasabarnes

Whoa. Atmosphere , Trilogy and Stylus! That's a cool setup.

excellent softsynths
i really only use stylus for its vinyl scratch effects - probably why i haven't bought it, i just use the school's copy when i'm at school. But trilogy and atmosphere really interest me.

thomasabarnes · Feb 20, 2005, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj_stick

excellent softsynths
i really only use stylus for its vinyl scratch effects - probably why i haven't bought it, i just use the school's copy when i'm at school. But trilogy and atmosphere really interest me.

Sectrasonics has some nice softsynths. Trilogy rules! It's what plays my bass sounds.

**dj_stick** · Feb 20, 2005, 03:11 AM

i'm really interested in that synth, atm i'm just using logic's ES1 for my bassline

fvi · Feb 20, 2005, 11:06 AM

toadly : with a 3GHz Daw, you should be able to use those vsti at 5ms latency (I do). but think what is involved in the playback : disk access and memory bandwidth.
My former daw wasn't able to play a song (at low latency) with samples vsti (the grand, trliogy), and then I put a second hd and all the samples in it...

Feb 9, 2005, 10:52 PM	#1
JGSF HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 452 Rep Power: 0	How I got 2ms latency without a glitch Hi, I just wanted to share with you how I got 2ms latency rock solid with kx 3538h (I got 2.66 perfect with 3537 too), maybe it can help someone, I don't know... My system: -Asus A7N8X-x -512 Mb Pc3200 OEM -Athlon XP Tbed-B@2000mhz -SoundBlaster Audigy 2 Bulk (Sb0244) -etc... not relevant. 1 - I installed Windows XP without APIC support (when the setup program starts, press the F5 key many times until a menu shows up and then select "standart pc") 2 - After installing, I disabled all the unwanted IRQ-using devices such as ports, network cards, firewire devices, etc. After checking in the "system information" that my Audigy 2 was using an exclusive IRQ (5 in my case), I installed 3537 and went for 2.66ms. Perfect! Before I had clicks and pops, but now it was fine. Then I installed 3538h. Although I could play a single sound with 1ms latency without problems, it wasn't possible to play a whole song without pops and clicks. After several experiences, I can now have as low as 2ms in m0 mode (default) and play complete projects without problems. Hugs.

Feb 11, 2005, 08:24 AM	#7
TravelRec. Alternative Audioproductions Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Germany / Sachsen-Anhalt Posts: 1,710 Rep Power: 0	Hi Toad! Seems your PC is doing some other jobs while you looking away . Try to disable unused services, try to switch processor power to background tasks (like ASIO is). Same card here with a PC like below works always smooth with 3537 and 10ms / only recording tasks with 5ms. __________________ Always take a look behind.

Feb 17, 2005, 12:36 PM	#11
fvi DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Paris, France Posts: 48 Rep Power: 0	Toadly : - In cubase, under VST Multitrack/Expert settings, did you uncheck "lower latency" ? (when checked, I used to be stuck at 5.33ms too, I'm easily now at 2ms) - It seems you only have one hard disk. You can't play vsti using huge samples bank (like the grand) at low latency : the OS, the host and the samples access the same disk! - you can always compare your DAW perf (or see what you should expect from it) with this test database http://www.moar.net/cubasetest/ btw : my syst is ACPI enabled __________________ Asrock 939Dual SataII / A64 x2 @ 2600Mhz / 2Gb PC3200 / Emu APS / Kx3538h Last edited by fvi; Feb 17, 2005 at 12:55 PM.

Feb 19, 2005, 11:02 PM	#14
thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,375 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Whoa. Atmosphere , Trilogy and Stylus! That's a cool setup. I've been using the Standard PC config and the WinXP optimizaion for a year or more now. And with my system I get 8 ms latency using 3538h, Trilogy and, Edirol HQ Orchestral, Super Quartet, and DR-008. I'm very pleased with this latency. It's great for my work. If I want to use some intense CPU hungry softsynth like Absynth 3, I can just freeze the other softsynths or bounce to audio. A funny thing though. when I use Amplitude on the Trilogy track, I have to disable Amplitube if I want the 8 ms latency to still work during recording, if I dont disable it, latency gets all messed up (huge delay). __________________ May a song always touch you in a positive way. SONAR X1D Expanded, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB x2 HDD 7200 rpm My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs

Feb 20, 2005, 11:06 AM	#18
fvi DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Paris, France Posts: 48 Rep Power: 0	toadly : with a 3GHz Daw, you should be able to use those vsti at 5ms latency (I do). but think what is involved in the playback : disk access and memory bandwidth. My former daw wasn't able to play a song (at low latency) with samples vsti (the grand, trliogy), and then I put a second hd and all the samples in it... __________________ Asrock 939Dual SataII / A64 x2 @ 2600Mhz / 2Gb PC3200 / Emu APS / Kx3538h

Feb 10, 2005, 07:47 AM	#2
Nando Dominguez DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Spain Posts: 280 Rep Power: 0	Thank you Johnny 1982 I've read many things about it. Have you found any disadvantage by using Standard PC mode?

Feb 10, 2005, 01:24 PM	Thread Starter #3
JGSF HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 452 Rep Power: 0	Well, since I use this Windows XP installation for music aplications only, I found no disadvantages at all. I also did some tweaks with XPlite and it's lightning fast!

Feb 10, 2005, 06:03 PM	#4
Toadly_Ossum DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 228 Rep Power: 0	also have ACPI disabled on my system: Intel 865 chipset, P4 3Ghz, 1GB DDR400 dual channel, WD 120GB SATA, Audigy with live drive(forget the model at the moment) Disabling ACPI will loose Hyper Threading on Intels HT CPUs. Man I cant do 2ms at all (tried 3538 for short time but back to 3537 now) 3537 @ 5.33 runs great for my live setup in which I run Vstack with B4,The Grand, Lounge lizard2, Im also simultainiously running Logic and using EVD6 and EP88 insruments. Only simple Cubase projects will run at 5.33. For example if I run Guitar Rig and just 1 or 2 other VSTi i start getting pops so i have to start upping the latency to 10ms. When Im done recording and start mixing and adding other effect I typically have to run 20ms or even 40ms. I think my PC should be performing better than it is. When 3538 is final Im likely to reload my PC with a fresh install and try to achieve the amazing 2ms latencies that some slower PCs are getting. Question, Is intels Hyper Threading benificial to ASIO in 3538? Will i be better off to disable ACPI, Loose hyper threading because of classic "ACPI Kills audio performance" arguement? Toad

Feb 10, 2005, 06:58 PM	Thread Starter #5
JGSF HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 452 Rep Power: 0	Check if your audio card is using an exclusive IRQ under "System information".

Feb 11, 2005, 02:49 PM	#8
Toadly_Ossum DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 228 Rep Power: 0	Yes TravelRec Ive have performed all the XP tweaks that are found on the web about optimizing XP based Daws. I suspect that my system just needs a clean reload. When 3538 if final i am going to do a clean reload. What do you think about disabling ACPI vs leaving it enable so as to keep the hyperthreading. Toad

Feb 19, 2005, 01:41 PM	Thread Starter #12
JGSF HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 452 Rep Power: 0	By the way, you can also deactivate "system restore", and some hardware you don't use. The best choice for me is to have a separate Windows instalation for music applications. If you can you can also try XPlite and deactivate some more unnecessary stuff. It's well worth it.

Feb 19, 2005, 08:10 PM	#13
Toadly_Ossum DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 228 Rep Power: 0	Yea Ive done all the XP optimizations you could think of. I do know that i need a second HDD better data thru-put when recording/playing audio tracks. However most of what Im doing is with VSTi which are mostly heavy on RAM/CPU resources. I might be over estimating what it "should" be able to do. I mean can any ones DAW really run multiple VSTi such as The Grand, Atmosphere, Trilogy, Stylus and Groove Agent tracks at 2ms? These are the most CPU intensive VSTi I use, but typically when song writing I like to use all these instruments together. Toad