Says 5ms, feels like 100+ms

jago25_98 · Jan 19, 2006, 11:41 PM

Card: Audigy1
Drivers tried: Kx, Asio4all, Creative
Priority of application: `High`

It should work but in practice it doesn't. The idea was to use my box as a guitar processor. In reality there feels like a 100/200ms delay -such a delay that I can get my pick from the string to the edge of the guitar before I hear the note.
Yet the delay shuold be 10ms. I've tried everything from 2ms to 200ms, same problem.

What could be causing this?

I'm using `vsthost` for testing - a very handy standalone program for use with VST plugins.

Toadly_Ossum · Jan 20, 2006, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jago25_98

Card: Audigy1
Drivers tried: Kx, Asio4all, Creative
Priority of application: `High`

It should work but in practice it doesn't. The idea was to use my box as a guitar processor. In reality there feels like a 100/200ms delay -such a delay that I can get my pick from the string to the edge of the guitar before I hear the note.
Yet the delay shuold be 10ms. I've tried everything from 2ms to 200ms, same problem.

What could be causing this?

I'm using `vsthost` for testing - a very handy standalone program for use with VST plugins.

Are you selected kX ASIO as the driver in the host software? Guitar Rig has stand alone does it not? it may be a problem with the host.

Toad

jago25_98 · Jan 20, 2006, 03:14 PM

Yes, I've tried all 3 drivers, KX Asio, Asio4all and the Creative Asio.

They all seem to work in terms of what's on the screen, and I'm sure it would be ok if you onlt used it for computer music only type stuff.

But in practive there's a delay that is not possible to work with.

Maddogg6 · Jan 20, 2006, 06:42 PM

1) what version of KX are you using?, what 'Guitar EFFECTS' software are you using (if any?)

3) Is Windows MM set to FULL ACCELERATION?

4) Are you ABSOLUTLY sure your using an ASIO driver in the host application - is sure seems like your using WINMM or WDM - not asio..

?? no change when changing ASIO latency... just sounds wrong on this end. It *should* shorten delay, but may crackele/pop after lowering ASIO latency too low. This is the behaviour with ASIO latency on my machine.

AND - YOU ARE restarting the host application after EVERY KX ASIO latency change - right? - I dont know of any apps that will 'USE' new latency settings made in KX ASIO panel without restarting.

Russ · Jan 20, 2006, 07:08 PM

I agree with Maddogg6,, it definatley sounds like you are not doing something right. I have tried vsthost (version 1.36) and had no such problems.

Make sure you change the latency settings through the ASIO Control Panel.
Make sure that the selected wave device in vsthost is kX ASIO.
Try vsthost by itself and see how it works before adding any effects.

thomasabarnes · Jan 20, 2006, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddogg6

AND - YOU ARE restarting the host application after EVERY KX ASIO latency change - right? - I dont know of any apps that will 'USE' new latency settings made in KX ASIO panel without restarting.

Are you certain about this Maddogg?

Using SONAR 4 or 5, I find that I dont have to restart SONAR for mixing latency setting to take effect after changing ASIO latency via Options/Audio and the kX ASIO Panel under the Mixing Latency section. I only have to restart SONAR if I change from WDM to ASIO or vice versa.

Maddogg6 · Jan 20, 2006, 08:44 PM

@Thomas:

Well, your right Sonar is SUPPOSED to take changes with out restarting... but sometimes doesnt ... SOMETIMES when I change from 5.33 ms to 8 ms (for larger projects/more audio tracks) - Id still get crakeling until I restart the app.

If I knew which KX register held this setting (read it from KX console) - I could mabe track it down to a VST(i) or DX(i) that I may have been using at the time?? - which I suspected was WHY this is.., or maybe its dependant of the times changed from/to.. ??

thomasabarnes · Jan 20, 2006, 09:40 PM

Oh, I C what u mean now. I got that a few times a year or so ago. I'm glad I dont get that often.

But, then again, sometimes when a number of softsynths are running and the audio tracks are increased, I get some cracks and pops, but to record tight using 5 or 8ms latency, I just deal with it. Now, I've found that to freez all softsynths but the one I'm recording allows me to do low latency recording without no pops or clicks, or few if any. I like that. hehe

Toadly_Ossum · Jan 21, 2006, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomasabarnes

Oh, I C what u mean now. I got that a few times a year or so ago. I'm glad I dont get that often.

But, then again, sometimes when a number of softsynths are running and the audio tracks are increased, I get some cracks and pops, but to record tight using 5 or 8ms latency, I just deal with it. Now, I've found that to freez all softsynths but the one I'm recording allows me to do low latency recording without no pops or clicks, or few if any. I like that. hehe

when i freeze synths it takes like 3 or 4 minutes in cubase, and thats enough time to loose a creative spark of an idea. but i never have to restart cubase after changing latencies with the kXasio aplet.

And Jago with kxASIO set to 5ms it should feel "real time" and at 10ms it should be barely noticable. not half a second as you say
Toad

Maddogg6 · Jan 21, 2006, 03:30 AM

In Sonar... I 'ARCHIVE' unused tracks - can be done on multiple tracks in 1 step and seems to release resources. So even if the soft synth is still 'running' its at least not rendering anything.

Lex Nahumury · Jan 21, 2006, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toadly_Ossum

And Jago with kxASIO set to 5ms it should feel "real time" and at 10ms it should be barely noticable. not half a second as you say
Toad

I agree on that.
I play e-guitar through vsthost + guitarFx VST + kX at 5ms and even 2.5 ms on an 1.5ghz amd.
Feels enough 'real-time' to me.

thomasabarnes · Jan 21, 2006, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toadly_Ossum

when i freeze synths it takes like 3 or 4 minutes in cubase, and thats enough time to loose a creative spark of an idea. but i never have to restart cubase after changing latencies with the kXasio aplet.

Toad

I use 6 softsynths at the most. When CPU usage gets high I freeze them all except the one I'm recording at that time. Just started really freezing in SONAR 5, but it only takes a few seconds to freeze one synth. I havent actually timed it, but it's relatively quick (I'd say under 15 secs). My creative flow isnt interupted in that case. Wonder why it takes so long in Cubase as you say? I think it has to do with how you compose. I compose one part of a song at a time for starters. For example, the intro can be like 4 measures, and then the 1st verse 8 measures. That's 2 parts to the song, I will freeze after each part, or maybe after each 2 parts. So it doesnt take long to freeze. You may wait til the whole song is complete and freeze after 100's of measures are recorded or maybe 50 measures. Maybe that's why it takes so long to freeze for you.

Anyway, the starter of this thread has 14 posts, so maybe he'll be back to reply to you all's help. I really dont like it when I attempt to help someone, and s/he never comes back with any kind of reply.

Also, it may be that he needs to change to an ACPI configuration or a Standard PC config. That latency problem he describes is one of the symtoms when the PC config needs to be switched to ACPI or Standard PC config., depending on his system. So if he tried all other ways to fix the problem to no avail, he may want to look into switching to ACPI or Standard PC, depending on which he has installed now. If he currently has a Standard PC config, he can try an ACPI config, if he has an ACPI config he can try Standard PC, or if it says Uniprocessor PC under Computer in Device Manager he can try changing to ACPI (read this thread: http://driverheaven.net/showthread.php?t=97024).

Jan 19, 2006, 11:41 PM	#1
jago25_98 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: UK Posts: 14 Rep Power: 0	Says 5ms, feels like 100+ms Card: Audigy1 Drivers tried: Kx, Asio4all, Creative Priority of application: `High` It should work but in practice it doesn't. The idea was to use my box as a guitar processor. In reality there feels like a 100/200ms delay -such a delay that I can get my pick from the string to the edge of the guitar before I hear the note. Yet the delay shuold be 10ms. I've tried everything from 2ms to 200ms, same problem. What could be causing this? I'm using `vsthost` for testing - a very handy standalone program for use with VST plugins.

Jan 20, 2006, 06:42 PM	#4
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 50	1) what version of KX are you using?, what 'Guitar EFFECTS' software are you using (if any?) 3) Is Windows MM set to FULL ACCELERATION? 4) Are you ABSOLUTLY sure your using an ASIO driver in the host application - is sure seems like your using WINMM or WDM - not asio.. ?? no change when changing ASIO latency... just sounds wrong on this end. It should shorten delay, but may crackele/pop after lowering ASIO latency too low. This is the behaviour with ASIO latency on my machine. AND - YOU ARE restarting the host application after EVERY KX ASIO latency change - right? - I dont know of any apps that will 'USE' new latency settings made in KX ASIO panel without restarting. Last edited by Maddogg6; Jan 20, 2006 at 07:11 PM. Reason: didnt see what host OP was using...

Jan 20, 2006, 09:40 PM	#8
thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,373 Rep Power: 58 System Specs	Oh, I C what u mean now. I got that a few times a year or so ago. I'm glad I dont get that often. But, then again, sometimes when a number of softsynths are running and the audio tracks are increased, I get some cracks and pops, but to record tight using 5 or 8ms latency, I just deal with it. Now, I've found that to freez all softsynths but the one I'm recording allows me to do low latency recording without no pops or clicks, or few if any. I like that. hehe __________________ May a song always touch you in a positive way. Sonar 8.5.3 PE, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB HDD 7200 rpm, My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs Last edited by thomasabarnes; Jan 20, 2006 at 09:45 PM.

Jan 20, 2006, 03:14 PM	Thread Starter #3
jago25_98 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: UK Posts: 14 Rep Power: 0	Yes, I've tried all 3 drivers, KX Asio, Asio4all and the Creative Asio. They all seem to work in terms of what's on the screen, and I'm sure it would be ok if you onlt used it for computer music only type stuff. But in practive there's a delay that is not possible to work with.

Jan 20, 2006, 07:08 PM	#5
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,507 Rep Power: 61	I agree with Maddogg6,, it definatley sounds like you are not doing something right. I have tried vsthost (version 1.36) and had no such problems. Make sure you change the latency settings through the ASIO Control Panel. Make sure that the selected wave device in vsthost is kX ASIO. Try vsthost by itself and see how it works before adding any effects.

Jan 20, 2006, 08:44 PM	#7
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 50	@Thomas: Well, your right Sonar is SUPPOSED to take changes with out restarting... but sometimes doesnt ... SOMETIMES when I change from 5.33 ms to 8 ms (for larger projects/more audio tracks) - Id still get crakeling until I restart the app. If I knew which KX register held this setting (read it from KX console) - I could mabe track it down to a VST(i) or DX(i) that I may have been using at the time?? - which I suspected was WHY this is.., or maybe its dependant of the times changed from/to.. ??

Jan 21, 2006, 03:30 AM	#10
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 50	In Sonar... I 'ARCHIVE' unused tracks - can be done on multiple tracks in 1 step and seems to release resources. So even if the soft synth is still 'running' its at least not rendering anything.