Definite word on Envy24 and Envy24HT difference(s)

RIV@NVX · Jan 28, 2003, 03:22 PM

by VIA (Keith Kowal):

My first mail:

Quote:

Hello,

I am interested in exact list of differences and improvements that Envy24HT brought over original Envy24. Could you please list them here (simple comparison)?

Vedran Miletic
DriverHeaven.net
Audio Section Moderator

After a delay, I got an answer (very nice one

):

Quote:

Hi Vedran,

Sorry about the delay in getting back to you.

The orignal Envy24 was the first 24-bit/96kHz Audio controller designed for the Hi-end professional market, and as such has connections for a wide range of inputs and outputs (up to 12 ins and 12 outs, including digital I/Os), and has an internal built-in mixer.

24-bit resolution audio format support
Sampling rates up to 96kHz
8x2 I/O on AC-link or I²S, up to 4x2 converters
Simultaneous I²S for S/PDIF I/O up to 96kHz
20 channels, 36-bit wide digital mixer
Monitor and master copy functions
Peak meters on all 20 professional multi-track streams

Around Computex we released the Envy24HT which is aimed more at the hi-end consumer market. The Envy24HT was the first 24-bit/192kHz audio controller on the market and features basically 8 outputs and up to 4 inputs.

24-bit resolution audio format support
Sampling rates up to 192kHz
5 synchronous I ²S/AC-link output data stream pairs
2 synchronous I ²S/AC-link input data stream pairs
Multi-channel AC-link supported alternatively
Integrated S/PDIF transmitter with IEC958 line driver
Digital loopback and stream routing mechanism
Peak meters on all streams
MPU-401 MIDI UART port

(It is difficult to actually define how many inputs and outputs these controllers can have, as they are actually equipped with I2S and AC-link connections which enable a lot of possiblities depending on what you connect them to).

So in a nutshell the main differences are that the Envy24HT has 192kHz support, has less inputs and outputs (as its intended for the consumer not pro market), and we took out the digital mixer.

To help out in your review attached are some additional materials that might be of help:
<<Envy24HT Overview.doc>> <<Envy24PT-2.jpg>> <<Envy24HT.jpg>>

Hope this helps, there is more detailed info on our website, or feel free to contact me if there is any other ways I can be of help.

Best Regards,
Keith Kowal

Since this wasn't everything (or at least not enough for me), I wrote a reply:

Quote:

There is more thing which I want to know about:
1. How many hardware accelerated directsound voices (streams, not MIDI voices) are supported by Envy24? How many by Envy24HT?
2. Is there any difference in audio input/output quality?

Thanks for your patience.

Vedran Miletic a.k.a. RIV@@NVX
DriverHeaven.net
Audio Section Moderator

And I got an answer - very fast one:

Quote:

Hi Vedran,

1) The orignal VIA Envy24 is equipped with a 16 concurrent stream
Directsound accelerator, and a sample rate converter for directsound,
however I believe none of the current customers for the VIA Envy24 actually
use this feature. I think currently the emphasis on this feature is way
overblown. Directsound acceleration technology was developed many
years ago when we were still using low speed processors and a 33MHz front
side bus. Today with much more powerful machines Hardware acceleration
actually acts to signifigantly slow down system performance (Hardware
Deceleration if you will). If you want to test this yourself just load up
Unreal Tournament 2003 and set the audio settings to Hardware or
Hardware + EAX and then adjust the Hardware accleration slider in the Windows
toolbar. In my own tests adjusting this slider has no appreciable
effect on the audio quality but the more hardware acceleration that is used
there is a signifigant drop in the Frame rates. I would also point out
that in new games like the upcoming Doom III, Hardware Acceleration
will not be supported by this all new audio engine from id software (which
also has a full 5.1 soundtrack).

Therefore for the Envy24HT we have taken out the Directsound
acceleration features.

To get a better idea of gaming performance with the Envy24 controllers
you can also check out this recent review by Tech-report that looked at
gaming performance:
http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2.../index.x?pg=11
These benchmarks use the Terratec DMX6fire with the Envy24 and a
sensaura driver, however since the core of the Envy24 and Envy24HT are very
similar, benchmarking with the new Envy24HT cards from M-Audio and
Terratec should be very similar.

2) Both the Envy24 and Envy24HT have basically the same core, so we
feel they both do an optimum job of delivering the sound streams to the
I/Os with maximum bit-for-bit clarity. However it should be noted that
audio quality is also very dependent on the ADCs and more importantly
DACs used as well as the board implementation. On this issues obviously
the audio quality will be very dependant upon how good of a job our audio
partners like Terratec do on the board layout, and the quality of
components they choose to pair the Envy based controller with.

Hope this helps,

Best Regards,
Keith Kowal

Conclusion? VIA rules.

inteks · Mar 16, 2003, 06:20 PM

hi,
i bought a terratec aureon sky with a envy24ht. and gaming with senaura ist terrible!!!
ok its not the cpu usage BUT with sensaura enabled you have a big DELAY in the sound output!
compareble with a asio latency of 150ms !!! in UT2003 you shoot the flak but the sound apear years after!

have fun
tom

PS if you like games stay away from envy24ht

RIV@NVX · Mar 16, 2003, 06:48 PM

Same for Envy24 (DMX 6fire).

Necrosis · Mar 16, 2003, 11:00 PM

I've never experienced this delay that some people are talking about it. It seems you might have to change your latency to higher setting to help with this.

inteks · Mar 17, 2003, 08:18 AM

you have only delay if senaura is enabled (for 4speaker) is sensaura is disabled there is no delay! and there are no settings to change the amount of the delay! tom

Necrosis · Mar 17, 2003, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by inteks
you have only delay if senaura is enabled (for 4speaker) is sensaura is disabled there is no delay! and there are no settings to change the amount of the delay! tom

I've tried it enabled for 5.1..could this be the reason?

Darksider · Mar 18, 2003, 05:41 AM

I LOVE my Revo! The sound is fantastic and my frames in games are plenty good as well. If you have a 2GHz+ CPU, you have nothing to worry about. Besides, I personally do more at my computer than just play games.

inteks · Mar 18, 2003, 09:01 AM

noone says that the frames are low!
doesn't you have a delay in the sounds of 3d-game (if sensaura is enabled!!) ???
i dont think that it's a question of cpu-power.

btw i also do more with my pc as games!!
and the sound quality is fantastic no question!

maybe its a bug and terratec is able to fix it.
maybe not.

have fun
tom

Darksider · Mar 18, 2003, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by inteks
noone says that the frames are low!
doesn't you have a delay in the sounds of 3d-game (if sensaura is enabled!!) ???
i dont think that it's a question of cpu-power.

btw i also do more with my pc as games!!
and the sound quality is fantastic no question!

maybe its a bug and terratec is able to fix it.
maybe not.

have fun
tom

No. I'm having no problems here.

Have you tried setting the PCI delay in the BIOS to a higher number?

Necrosis · Mar 18, 2003, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by inteks
noone says that the frames are low!
doesn't you have a delay in the sounds of 3d-game (if sensaura is enabled!!) ???
i dont think that it's a question of cpu-power.

btw i also do more with my pc as games!!
and the sound quality is fantastic no question!

maybe its a bug and terratec is able to fix it.
maybe not.

have fun
tom

Um, no man I'm not having any delay what so ever. The only annoyance I can find with the card is when you change settings. Every play a some audio format and then changes settings it just stops playing? Gaming is great for me here. Have you updated to the latest drivers?

inteks · Mar 26, 2003, 12:55 PM

yep

btw at now i have the aureon sky and my audigy1 installed and i have
connected the audigy line-out to the aureon line-in
audigy for gaming+systemsounds ; aureon for cubase

and i wait for next aureon-driver maybe they fix this problem

have fun
tom

inteks · Apr 11, 2003, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RIV@NVX
Same for Envy24 (DMX 6fire).

have you tried the new drivers for dmx 6fire.
have they fixed it ???

have fun
tom

RIV@NVX · Apr 11, 2003, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by inteks
have you tried the new drivers for dmx 6fire.
have they fixed it ???

have fun
tom

I haven't tested, but I really doubt that they did.

inteks · Apr 11, 2003, 03:58 PM

maybe?
they have take the minimal buffersize to 64 for asio.
maybe they improved the driver and maybe there is a better sensaura support.

have fun
tom

Mar 16, 2003, 06:20 PM	#2
inteks HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 90 Rep Power: 0	hi, i bought a terratec aureon sky with a envy24ht. and gaming with senaura ist terrible!!! ok its not the cpu usage BUT with sensaura enabled you have a big DELAY in the sound output! compareble with a asio latency of 150ms !!! in UT2003 you shoot the flak but the sound apear years after! have fun tom PS if you like games stay away from envy24ht __________________ 3820TG i5@3.5Ghz HD5650@700/900 Windows7 On Intel X25-M G2 Postville 160GB 3820tray --- 3820TG ATI vBios MOD --- 1810t TME MOD --- Acc Sensor Mod

Mar 16, 2003, 06:48 PM	Thread Starter #3
RIV@NVX Freedom is a feature. Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Croatia, Rijeka Posts: 4,476 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Same for Envy24 (DMX 6fire). __________________ -- Vedran

Mar 17, 2003, 08:18 AM	#5
inteks HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 90 Rep Power: 0	envy24ht you have only delay if senaura is enabled (for 4speaker) is sensaura is disabled there is no delay! and there are no settings to change the amount of the delay! tom __________________ 3820TG i5@3.5Ghz HD5650@700/900 Windows7 On Intel X25-M G2 Postville 160GB 3820tray --- 3820TG ATI vBios MOD --- 1810t TME MOD --- Acc Sensor Mod

Mar 18, 2003, 09:01 AM	#8
inteks HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 90 Rep Power: 0	noone says that the frames are low! doesn't you have a delay in the sounds of 3d-game (if sensaura is enabled!!) ??? i dont think that it's a question of cpu-power. btw i also do more with my pc as games!! and the sound quality is fantastic no question! maybe its a bug and terratec is able to fix it. maybe not. have fun tom __________________ 3820TG i5@3.5Ghz HD5650@700/900 Windows7 On Intel X25-M G2 Postville 160GB 3820tray --- 3820TG ATI vBios MOD --- 1810t TME MOD --- Acc Sensor Mod

Mar 26, 2003, 12:55 PM	#11
inteks HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 90 Rep Power: 0	yep btw at now i have the aureon sky and my audigy1 installed and i have connected the audigy line-out to the aureon line-in audigy for gaming+systemsounds ; aureon for cubase and i wait for next aureon-driver maybe they fix this problem have fun tom __________________ 3820TG i5@3.5Ghz HD5650@700/900 Windows7 On Intel X25-M G2 Postville 160GB 3820tray --- 3820TG ATI vBios MOD --- 1810t TME MOD --- Acc Sensor Mod

Mar 16, 2003, 11:00 PM	#4
Necrosis HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,838 Rep Power: 131 System Specs	I've never experienced this delay that some people are talking about it. It seems you might have to change your latency to higher setting to help with this.

Mar 18, 2003, 05:41 AM	#7
Darksider I Play NWN and UT2003 Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 202 Rep Power: 0	I LOVE my Revo! The sound is fantastic and my frames in games are plenty good as well. If you have a 2GHz+ CPU, you have nothing to worry about. Besides, I personally do more at my computer than just play games.

Apr 11, 2003, 03:58 PM	#14
inteks HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 90 Rep Power: 0	maybe? they have take the minimal buffersize to 64 for asio. maybe they improved the driver and maybe there is a better sensaura support. have fun tom __________________ 3820TG i5@3.5Ghz HD5650@700/900 Windows7 On Intel X25-M G2 Postville 160GB 3820tray --- 3820TG ATI vBios MOD --- 1810t TME MOD --- Acc Sensor Mod