Questions about gaming and sound cards

silentbob17 · Apr 18, 2007, 04:38 AM

Hey there. I just wanted to get some updated info about the effects of a good sound card on gaming performance and quality.

I'm going to be building a new rig soon I've been looking at all the components that I will be getting.

I want to know how much of an impact having a decent sound card really has. I've always just used my mobo's integrated sound but now that I'm spending a fair bit of money on a new gaming rig, I want it to be as good as it can while still on a budget. That's why I want to know if I can cut 100$ off the total without sacrificing a tonne of potential performance.

I bought a Creative Audigy SE (30 dollar card) to see if there was any difference at all on my current rig and didn't really notice any. Obviously it's not exactly a gaming sound card but it's making me wonder and thus prompting this thread.

What can you tell me?

~~DudeBoyz~~ · Apr 18, 2007, 07:22 AM

The disadvantage of onboard sound is that can use more CPU time, meaning things may run slower when gaming.

However, that can be negated with Dual Core systems in XP, generally.

If the Audigy works for you and was only $30, no reason not to use it. But if you are happy with the performance of onboard sound and don't get any stuttering, etc. during gameplay, you could just chuck the sound card and the drivers that go with it and stick with onboard. No harm, no foul.

Rogacz · Apr 18, 2007, 02:38 PM

Honestly it's all about poor DAC on mobo codecs. You'll never get high quality output on mobo codec because of poor DAC quality and overall noise.
Audigy is nice if you don't want to spent fortune on sound cards, just don't buy those cut versions.

silentbob17 · Apr 18, 2007, 05:02 PM

Hm, BF2 had a little stuttering and I forgot to mention that it cleared up after getting the cheap card. That's the only noticeable difference.

My next rig will be dual core and possibly vista if it gets some updates (64bit version). So maybe my best bet is to try it out without a sound card before dropping the money on one.

Is there any way that using a weak sound card would be worse than using on-board with a really good CPU?

And one last question:
Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-FI Xtreme Audio
Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-FI Xtreme Gamer

Only difference I can see is the name and the price (30 bucks more for the gamer). Does anyone have experience with these cards? Is the gamer version actually better/worth-it?

Judas · Apr 18, 2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogacz

Honestly it's all about poor DAC on mobo codecs. You'll never get high quality output on mobo codec because of poor DAC quality and overall noise.
Audigy is nice if you don't want to spent fortune on sound cards, just don't buy those cut versions.

i'm extremely impressed with Realtek HD audio,

I mean if an onboard solution can get THX certification, it's gotta be good. (at least i had read that realtek newest chip was in for certification, lets see if it gets it)

IMO

If anyone was to consider onboard audio solutions, the Realtek chipsets are byfar the best. Don't ever get stuck with the AC'97 realtek solutions though, get the HD solutions, ALC882/883 are pretty steller, specially in windows Vista due to haveing utterly excellent driver support. What's more? There are many MANY more features and enhancements for realtek Vista users then XP. Performance is pretty damn well on par with any PCI card solution, i've actually had LESS troubles with realtek then creative.

If i were to consider getting a new sound card.. i'd seriously ponder about the:

AuzenTech

sound cards, they seem to be quite excellent.

silentbob17 · Apr 19, 2007, 01:39 AM

Ok that's pretty helpful, thanks.

But does the onboard still put load on the CPU no matter what? Or is it good enough to really handle the processing on its own and keep it from hindering performance?

**dj_stick** · Apr 19, 2007, 02:02 AM

onboard is almost always software driven, as are some low end PCI cards

as for the difference between the X-fi Audio/Gamer, probably none, just different software bundle (gamer probably comes with a few games)

stormy13 · Apr 19, 2007, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj_stick

as for the difference between the X-fi Audio/Gamer, probably none, just different software bundle (gamer probably comes with a few games)

There is a lot more different between the two than "probably none" For starters the X-Audio is basically nothing more than a re-badged SB Live 24 bit/Audigy SE, with no hardware processing support at all and never should have been called an X-Fi. Hell it even has its own drivers (in XP at least, and the Vista driver package for it is exactly the same as the one for those other two POS's). The card also does not support game Mode that the rest of the X-Fi's do.

The X-Gamer is at least is a full X-Fi card and uses the same drivers and software package and Game Mode as the rest of the X-Fi's. It has the same spces as the Xtreme Music, minus the connectors on the back and is only a half-height card.

**dj_stick** · Apr 19, 2007, 08:00 AM

oh i need to re-read the creative product list - that post described the situation back with the old audigy series

Rogacz · Apr 19, 2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormy13

There is a lot more different between the two than "probably none" For starters the X-Audio is basically nothing more than a re-badged SB Live 24 bit/Audigy SE, with no hardware processing support at all and never should have been called an X-Fi. Hell it even has its own drivers (in XP at least, and the Vista driver package for it is exactly the same as the one for those other two POS's). The card also does not support game Mode that the rest of the X-Fi's do.

The X-Gamer is at least is a full X-Fi card and uses the same drivers and software package and Game Mode as the rest of the X-Fi's. It has the same spces as the Xtreme Music, minus the connectors on the back and is only a half-height card.

Short:

Avoid X-Fi X-Audio sound card.

And yeah - Auzentech cards look nice.

silentbob17 · Apr 24, 2007, 05:30 PM

Hm ok, good to know. But again, does anyone have experience with the difference in performance when it comes to having a sound card or having just integrated? Obviously you can get a bit more quality with a card as I found with even my crap Audigy SE ($30 card) but what's the difference performance wise for say:

Integrated vs Audigy SE (crap card) vs X-Fi Gamer (more expensive $100+ card)

Rogacz · Apr 24, 2007, 06:52 PM

Up to 5 or even 10% of CPU usage without sound card if you have single core CPU.

Depends on number of sounds and additional effects (such like EAX).

thomasabarnes · Apr 25, 2007, 05:09 AM

Onboard sound has poor DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) and ADC (Analog to Digital Converter). What this means is that recording is poor with onboard sound compared to A PCI soundcard. And I know of no OnBoard sound that has ASIO drivers. ASIO drivers alow for mutitrack audio recording.

The important difference with low priced PCI cards and the higher priced ones lies mainly in the (SNR) signal to noise ratio and Bit Depth and Sample rate capability. If you can find a sound card with SNR of 100 db or higher, you will do OK by getting it because you will have better sound quality.

Another thing to consider as a Gamer is that the non Creative cards will not have the Advanced High Definition feature of EAX or no EAX support at all. So if you value EAX, go with Creative.

Then, you have to consider if you want the sound feature of the newer Creative cards, such as Enhanced MIDI playback and such.

You could get a Audigy 2 from ebay for under $100.

I would say to ditch the onboard sound. I have soundMAX onboard HD audio, and the sound quality is far below that of my Audigy (even though the sound quality of the onboard sound is advertised to be 192kHZ/24Bit). Now I have an Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro. I got it refurbished from Creative on ebay for $99.99 free shiping. And the onboard sound isn't close to how good the Audigy 2 ZS is.

Plus, I have a external box where I can connect two Line ins and a Mic, and if I want to setup for Karaoke at a family Cookout, the Mic works great!

Bottom line is it's worh the investment to get a Audigy 2 or higher, if you can afford it!

**dj_stick** · Apr 25, 2007, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomasabarnes

And I know of no OnBoard sound that has ASIO drivers.

nForce 2 Soundstorm

thomasabarnes · Apr 25, 2007, 10:43 AM

LOL OK DJ.

and hi man!

Rogacz · Apr 25, 2007, 04:08 PM

Yeah, soundstorm was promising. Too bad they abandoned it.

silentbob17 · Apr 25, 2007, 09:51 PM

Roger that, thanks a lot for all the info. Greatly appreciated.

I'll stick with my crap card in my secondary system and grab a good card (when I can afford) for my new system (which is arriving any day now!).

thomasabarnes · Apr 25, 2007, 11:08 PM

Cool. Congrats on the new PC, and a PCI card is really best at present day. However, onboard sound may really get truely better than what it is like now, in the future.

Judas · Apr 26, 2007, 12:30 AM

Soundmax (by Analog Devices) is a pure CRAP onboard solution, like i said, realtek is the leader in Onboard Solutions.

However i must state that the Intel Chipsets with Realtek has recently shown some oddities that my Realtek Solutions on ATI AMD chipsets.

What people really neglect is that alot of people think a sound card is going to improve things with terrible speakers, it doesn't matter what your audio source is, if your speakers suck.... well should be obvious.

Now as far as i know the auzentech with Dolby Digital and DTS Hardware Decoding built right onto the pci boards shows an absalutely better audio reproduction then the creative lineup, and what's more amuseing, i can get the auzentech top card for roughly 15% cheaper then the 2nd from the top Creative X-fi.

**dj_stick** · Apr 26, 2007, 12:37 AM

Judas, i've actually found, through experience, and reading reviews, that the soundmax onboard solutions have sound quality superior to that of the realtek solutions - don't know about the driver situation though, never went too indepth there.

i know you're a realtek fan, but as you can see with creative, being the "leader" has nothing whatsoever with being the best available.

thomasabarnes · Apr 26, 2007, 02:53 AM

hiya Judas:

I noted your comments in your earlier post concerning RealTek. My thoughts are that the thread's OP, can read all and make his decision. Rogaz also posted some helpful info.

I'm not intending to dispute your observations with RealTek audio, just summurizing my feelings with onboard sound including RealTek on an Intel motherboard.

By us all sharing our experiences and knowledge, the OP can make a more informed decision.

BTW, I haven't said hi to you for a while Judas, so Hi Judas!!! LOL

EDIT:

Oh yeah, that Auzentech X Meridian looks real nice, and nice playback and recording specs, and I'm noting the 115 db SNR! But, for $199.99, I would just go with a Pro soundcard (aand I saw your mention of the reduced price you said you can get the card at).

Judas · Apr 26, 2007, 07:01 PM

I can get the top model Auzentech sound card for roughly 150 bucks after taxes...

Apr 18, 2007, 04:38 AM	#1
silentbob17 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 159 Rep Power: 0	Questions about gaming and sound cards Hey there. I just wanted to get some updated info about the effects of a good sound card on gaming performance and quality. I'm going to be building a new rig soon I've been looking at all the components that I will be getting. I want to know how much of an impact having a decent sound card really has. I've always just used my mobo's integrated sound but now that I'm spending a fair bit of money on a new gaming rig, I want it to be as good as it can while still on a budget. That's why I want to know if I can cut 100$ off the total without sacrificing a tonne of potential performance. I bought a Creative Audigy SE (30 dollar card) to see if there was any difference at all on my current rig and didn't really notice any. Obviously it's not exactly a gaming sound card but it's making me wonder and thus prompting this thread. What can you tell me? __________________ Overclocking: if it's not on fire, it can go higher! MoBo: ASUS M2N-E CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ RAM: 4GB OCZ Platinum XTC REV.2 PC2-6400 CL4-4-4-15 Video: EVGA E-GEFORCE 8800 GTS 320MB Sound: Creative Sound Blaster X-FI Xtreme Gamer 24BIT Power Supply: OCZ GameXStream 600W silentbob17 on xFire Hit-Or-Miss <--- Check this out

Apr 18, 2007, 02:38 PM	#3
Rogacz Porcupine Floyd Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Poland Posts: 422 Rep Power: 0	Honestly it's all about poor DAC on mobo codecs. You'll never get high quality output on mobo codec because of poor DAC quality and overall noise. Audigy is nice if you don't want to spent fortune on sound cards, just don't buy those cut versions. __________________

Apr 18, 2007, 05:02 PM	Thread Starter #4
silentbob17 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 159 Rep Power: 0	Hm, BF2 had a little stuttering and I forgot to mention that it cleared up after getting the cheap card. That's the only noticeable difference. My next rig will be dual core and possibly vista if it gets some updates (64bit version). So maybe my best bet is to try it out without a sound card before dropping the money on one. Is there any way that using a weak sound card would be worse than using on-board with a really good CPU? And one last question: Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-FI Xtreme Audio Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-FI Xtreme Gamer Only difference I can see is the name and the price (30 bucks more for the gamer). Does anyone have experience with these cards? Is the gamer version actually better/worth-it? __________________ Overclocking: if it's not on fire, it can go higher! MoBo: ASUS M2N-E CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ RAM: 4GB OCZ Platinum XTC REV.2 PC2-6400 CL4-4-4-15 Video: EVGA E-GEFORCE 8800 GTS 320MB Sound: Creative Sound Blaster X-FI Xtreme Gamer 24BIT Power Supply: OCZ GameXStream 600W silentbob17 on xFire Hit-Or-Miss <--- Check this out

Apr 19, 2007, 01:39 AM	Thread Starter #6
silentbob17 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 159 Rep Power: 0	Ok that's pretty helpful, thanks. But does the onboard still put load on the CPU no matter what? Or is it good enough to really handle the processing on its own and keep it from hindering performance? __________________ Overclocking: if it's not on fire, it can go higher! MoBo: ASUS M2N-E CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ RAM: 4GB OCZ Platinum XTC REV.2 PC2-6400 CL4-4-4-15 Video: EVGA E-GEFORCE 8800 GTS 320MB Sound: Creative Sound Blaster X-FI Xtreme Gamer 24BIT Power Supply: OCZ GameXStream 600W silentbob17 on xFire Hit-Or-Miss <--- Check this out

Apr 24, 2007, 05:30 PM	Thread Starter #11
silentbob17 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 159 Rep Power: 0	Hm ok, good to know. But again, does anyone have experience with the difference in performance when it comes to having a sound card or having just integrated? Obviously you can get a bit more quality with a card as I found with even my crap Audigy SE ($30 card) but what's the difference performance wise for say: Integrated vs Audigy SE (crap card) vs X-Fi Gamer (more expensive $100+ card) __________________ Overclocking: if it's not on fire, it can go higher! MoBo: ASUS M2N-E CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ RAM: 4GB OCZ Platinum XTC REV.2 PC2-6400 CL4-4-4-15 Video: EVGA E-GEFORCE 8800 GTS 320MB Sound: Creative Sound Blaster X-FI Xtreme Gamer 24BIT Power Supply: OCZ GameXStream 600W silentbob17 on xFire Hit-Or-Miss <--- Check this out

Apr 18, 2007, 07:22 AM	#2
~~DudeBoyz~~ banned Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,677 Rep Power: 0	The disadvantage of onboard sound is that can use more CPU time, meaning things may run slower when gaming. However, that can be negated with Dual Core systems in XP, generally. If the Audigy works for you and was only $30, no reason not to use it. But if you are happy with the performance of onboard sound and don't get any stuttering, etc. during gameplay, you could just chuck the sound card and the drivers that go with it and stick with onboard. No harm, no foul.

Apr 24, 2007, 06:52 PM	#12
Rogacz Porcupine Floyd Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Poland Posts: 422 Rep Power: 0	Up to 5 or even 10% of CPU usage without sound card if you have single core CPU. Depends on number of sounds and additional effects (such like EAX). __________________

Apr 25, 2007, 05:09 AM	#13
thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,373 Rep Power: 58 System Specs	Onboard sound has poor DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) and ADC (Analog to Digital Converter). What this means is that recording is poor with onboard sound compared to A PCI soundcard. And I know of no OnBoard sound that has ASIO drivers. ASIO drivers alow for mutitrack audio recording. The important difference with low priced PCI cards and the higher priced ones lies mainly in the (SNR) signal to noise ratio and Bit Depth and Sample rate capability. If you can find a sound card with SNR of 100 db or higher, you will do OK by getting it because you will have better sound quality. Another thing to consider as a Gamer is that the non Creative cards will not have the Advanced High Definition feature of EAX or no EAX support at all. So if you value EAX, go with Creative. Then, you have to consider if you want the sound feature of the newer Creative cards, such as Enhanced MIDI playback and such. You could get a Audigy 2 from ebay for under $100. I would say to ditch the onboard sound. I have soundMAX onboard HD audio, and the sound quality is far below that of my Audigy (even though the sound quality of the onboard sound is advertised to be 192kHZ/24Bit). Now I have an Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro. I got it refurbished from Creative on ebay for $99.99 free shiping. And the onboard sound isn't close to how good the Audigy 2 ZS is. Plus, I have a external box where I can connect two Line ins and a Mic, and if I want to setup for Karaoke at a family Cookout, the Mic works great! Bottom line is it's worh the investment to get a Audigy 2 or higher, if you can afford it! __________________ May a song always touch you in a positive way. Sonar 8.5.3 PE, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB HDD 7200 rpm, My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs Last edited by thomasabarnes; Apr 25, 2007 at 05:16 AM.

Apr 25, 2007, 10:43 AM	#15
thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,373 Rep Power: 58 System Specs	LOL OK DJ. and hi man! __________________ May a song always touch you in a positive way. Sonar 8.5.3 PE, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB HDD 7200 rpm, My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs

Apr 25, 2007, 04:08 PM	#16
Rogacz Porcupine Floyd Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Poland Posts: 422 Rep Power: 0	Yeah, soundstorm was promising. Too bad they abandoned it. __________________

Apr 25, 2007, 09:51 PM	Thread Starter #17
silentbob17 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 159 Rep Power: 0	Roger that, thanks a lot for all the info. Greatly appreciated. I'll stick with my crap card in my secondary system and grab a good card (when I can afford) for my new system (which is arriving any day now!). __________________ Overclocking: if it's not on fire, it can go higher! MoBo: ASUS M2N-E CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ RAM: 4GB OCZ Platinum XTC REV.2 PC2-6400 CL4-4-4-15 Video: EVGA E-GEFORCE 8800 GTS 320MB Sound: Creative Sound Blaster X-FI Xtreme Gamer 24BIT Power Supply: OCZ GameXStream 600W silentbob17 on xFire Hit-Or-Miss <--- Check this out

Apr 25, 2007, 11:08 PM	#18
thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,373 Rep Power: 58 System Specs	Cool. Congrats on the new PC, and a PCI card is really best at present day. However, onboard sound may really get truely better than what it is like now, in the future. __________________ May a song always touch you in a positive way. Sonar 8.5.3 PE, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB HDD 7200 rpm, My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs

Apr 26, 2007, 02:53 AM	#21
thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,373 Rep Power: 58 System Specs	hiya Judas: I noted your comments in your earlier post concerning RealTek. My thoughts are that the thread's OP, can read all and make his decision. Rogaz also posted some helpful info. I'm not intending to dispute your observations with RealTek audio, just summurizing my feelings with onboard sound including RealTek on an Intel motherboard. By us all sharing our experiences and knowledge, the OP can make a more informed decision. BTW, I haven't said hi to you for a while Judas, so Hi Judas!!! LOL EDIT: Oh yeah, that Auzentech X Meridian looks real nice, and nice playback and recording specs, and I'm noting the 115 db SNR! But, for $199.99, I would just go with a Pro soundcard (aand I saw your mention of the reduced price you said you can get the card at). __________________ May a song always touch you in a positive way. Sonar 8.5.3 PE, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB HDD 7200 rpm, My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs Last edited by thomasabarnes; Apr 26, 2007 at 03:04 AM.