Newer Generation Line in to Spdif out, FIX?

Judas · Sep 18, 2007, 09:39 PM

OK, this is really starting to rub me the wrong way...

it's not been awhile since the initial release of audio solutions that basically have turned Analog connections into prehistory, never used connections IF possible..

Spdif imo is superior... and now with fairly cheap speakers/amps that harness it's power very well, everyone is starting to connect anything they can using a single spdif RCA/Coxial connection or fiber optic connection. And why not? Only way to get TRUE surround sound without having to run seperate RCA cables, and some amps don't have seperate 6+ channel analog inputs.

Heres the dilema that is now cropping up.

A pile of people NEED/WANT/USE thier computers in a fashion as such:

Digitally connected Amp <~ Computer via fiber/coax, <~ Via analog line in, VCR/TV/Microphone, or other devices that don't have a digital connection of any type.

NOW the problem hits,

Does ANYONE have a slight clue as to how to get the audio from the line in to spit it out over the SPDIF connection?

as in, talk into a mic, and in real time, hear it over the digitally connected speakers?

Or perhaps play a old style Vinyl record and hear it over the digital speakers?

I know you can RECORD the audio, (can't hear it).... then play it back.... my gaud there HAS to be a way to do this.

Even with the Dolby Digital LIVE (studio) that takes any format of audio and converts it into a dobly digital surround sound format that can be played back digitally, should resolve any issues of doing this as it does it on the fly.

Anyone have any idea.

I know in Windows XP.. the whole digital connection things didn't work all that great, where as vista it's alot cleaner and fully working. Just keep hitting this bloody wall where the line in is being heard by the computer, but it just DOESN'T want to sent it out at all.

**dj_stick** · Sep 22, 2007, 05:11 AM

apart from stereo SPDIF, i wouldn't use it at all for multi-channel sound, all such algorithms like AC3 and DTS use a lossy compression codec.

as for your issue judas, that depends entirely on your soundcard's drivers. I know kX for creative cards allows you to route line inputs to the SPDIf outputs, i think other drivers do aswell, if the spdif output mirrors the analog output, just set the line input to be audible - you'll have to check out your soundcard drivers documentation on how to do this

Necrosis · Sep 22, 2007, 07:27 AM

Ha he uses on-board fat chance on that.

I do have some thing that will do it though.

Decoder DDTS-100 Decoding System - The theater experience in your home

Judas · Sep 22, 2007, 06:59 PM

dj_stick,

yeah i'm currently talking with a support rep with Realtek, there is no option to "monitor" or "digitize" an analog Stereo/mono LINE IN to be sent directly out through the Spdif connection, only atm, allows you to directly pipe the analog line in through the 8 channel analog out.

However i was reassured that a more recent driver update should or will feature a such an option to monitor/hear in realtime something that is coming in along the MIC/Line IN through a digital OUT connection with the full dolby digital LIVE upsampling.

now all i can do is wait.

**dj_stick** · Sep 23, 2007, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas

full dolby digital LIVE upsampling.

you do realise that dolby digital is more akin to down-sampling - it's a lossy compression codec, it's why i choose to use high quality analogue cables where possible, rather than spdif (where multi-channel sound is concerned)

i do agree that it's convenient, but consumer audio really needs to pick up a non-compressed multi-channel standard, such as ADAT (8 channels of 24/48 sound, or 4 of 24/96, 2 of 24/192 down a single fibre optic cable - infact it's the same cable/connecter as toslink)

Necrosis · Sep 23, 2007, 12:38 AM

Never mind "fake surround"...shudders.

Judas · Sep 23, 2007, 09:14 AM

dj_stick, i'm aware of the "downsampling"..... but when your dealing with an analog stereo input that is running around the same quality as a tape or less with a Vinyl record it's already a pretty low quality.

Realteks Dolby Digital LIVE! using the 24/96khz bitstream connection instead of the PCM Stereo, plus with a very excellent "fake surround" that doesn't sound at all matrixed. Any other previous set of speakers or sound devices i've used that "matrix" the sound, hell even the included "surround matrix" for the Z-5500's that i've got sound like crap in comparison to that of the dolby digital.... it does quite well removing the distortion and "squeeks" even on lower quality mp3/wmv's encoded in stereo, and effectively keeping the stuff made for the right and left and center right where they belong.. But it's also pleasing to here the further stuff evenly revolve from the center around to the rear in a very realistic TRUE Surround sound.

I've played around this for quite some time, it's much better sounding via the spdif fiber/coax connection with supported hardware, then with analog connections. Specially vs the shitty Creative X-FI Fatal1ty.. what an evil product lol...

I agree though that they REALLY should come out with a RAW format that actually supports multichannel surround, but until someone steps up to the plate... and tries to take on what dolby/dts creators have come up with.... gonna be pretty difficult. Specially vs the HD Dolby/DTS standards which support an even higher rated bandwidth.

Quote:

Dolby Digital Live
Dolby Digital Live (DDL) is a real-time encoding technology for interactive media such as video games. It converts any audio signals on a PC or game console into the 5.1-channel Dolby Digital format and transports it via a single S/PDIF cable.[1] The SoundStorm, used for the Xbox game console and certain nForce2-based PCs, used an early form of this technology. Dolby Digital Live is currently available in sound cards from manufacturers such as Turtle Beach[2] and Auzentech[3] using C-Media chipsets, as well as on motherboards with codecs such as Realtek's ALC882D,[4] ALC888DD and ALC888H. A similar technology known as DTS Connect is available from competitor DTS.
An important benefit of this technology is that it enables the use of digital multichannel sound with consumer sound cards, which are otherwise limited to PCM stereo or multichannel analog.

course minimum bit rate is 448 kbit/s.... but i don't beleive that's accurate..

If i playback a HD-DVD movie, which to support the Dolby Digital Plus or dolby digital HD, it's a minimum of 7.1 channels..... so it's confusing why the Z-5500's pop up with the format as being Dolby Digital 24/96 and information pertaining to hd-dvd playback shows a rough 1-1.5mb/s format.... backwards capability with 5.1 units while taking full advantage of the higher quality format perhaps? (i guess that would make sense

...

Either way, it's pretty impressive imo. ATM, i'm sticking to the spdif connection and have totally eliminated the analog... the only draw back ATM is the mic/line in, in realtime is the only downside to so far on the realtek chipset....

btw, it's absalute GARBAGE both analog/digital on the ADI or other such onboard sound chipset... can't beleive motherboard manufacturers are still using that crap on higher end boards still.

Necrosis · Sep 23, 2007, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas

dj_stick, i'm aware of the "downsampling"..... but when your dealing with an analog stereo input that is running around the same quality as a tape or less with a Vinyl record it's already a pretty low quality.

Hey what is wrong with Vinyl or reel-reel?

Judas · Sep 23, 2007, 10:57 AM

Nothing... lol... it has a fairly "interesting" effect..... but i doubt your going to get a 24bit/96khz "quality" sample of them....

Necrosis · Sep 23, 2007, 11:05 AM

Quality is all in the ear of the beholder.

Judas · Sep 23, 2007, 11:11 AM

true...

i'm fairly sensitive to the pops/cracks and static sounds..... or oddities period.....

and atm, i gotta find a different cable supplier...... the RCA cables i just got are "shody".... it's pretty sad when a 1970's single RCA cable works a hell of alot better, and has been thoroughly used, then a new video RCA cable that doesn't seem to make perfect contact (aka, loosing the digital connection occasionally)

Necrosis · Sep 24, 2007, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas

true...

i'm fairly sensitive to the pops/cracks and static sounds..... or oddities period.....

and atm, i gotta find a different cable supplier...... the RCA cables i just got are "shody".... it's pretty sad when a 1970's single RCA cable works a hell of alot better, and has been thoroughly used, then a new video RCA cable that doesn't seem to make perfect contact (aka, loosing the digital connection occasionally)

I guess you wouldn't appreciate tube amps either. Sad...Sad......sad.

Judas · Sep 24, 2007, 07:31 AM

tube amps........ shit they are probably the best as fully recreating the entire sound spectrum decently.... plug in a master cassette tape.... and it does a damn good job... Don't get me wrong, they are typically the best overall...

but a digital amp that is a good decent quality at the vary least, can produce a remarkably comparible result.

IMO, we are all limited by the media format we use. While an amp (TUBE type) can produce just about any freqency you can think of in a raw fomat.... the only time you can truly hear the difference is if the instrument is directly jacked in.... and imo, LIVE music is garbage because the mixing is extremely difficult.

However in a music studio with top of the line proffesional systems.... a high 192khz/32bit RAW single channel (with dozens of channels) recorded is probably the most impressive.

**dj_stick** · Sep 24, 2007, 08:25 AM

stick a quality valve amp next to a quality solid state amp (i have no idea what you're talking about with digital amps, ALL amps are analogue) and you won't notice a difference, it's when you overdrive them that the real character comes out - the distortion of a valve amp is much more pleasant (the warmth) than that of a solid state amp

Judas · Sep 24, 2007, 12:04 PM

i was refering to the amps that have the tubes..... only having a analog connection to them... no decoders present... where as the digital/solidstate ones, specific yamaha's higher end models....

**dj_stick** · Sep 24, 2007, 01:41 PM

as was i judas, not all solidstate amps have digital stages - and that's just the decoding part, and iirc some high-end receivers have valves, what i'm refering to is the analogue gain stages, amplifying the line-level signal to the level required to drive a speaker system

btw i don't exactly see where you're going with your last post

Sep 22, 2007, 07:27 AM	#3
Necrosis HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,838 Rep Power: 129 System Specs	Ha he uses on-board fat chance on that. I do have some thing that will do it though. Decoder DDTS-100 Decoding System - The theater experience in your home

Sep 23, 2007, 12:38 AM	#6
Necrosis HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,838 Rep Power: 129 System Specs	Never mind "fake surround"...shudders.

Sep 23, 2007, 11:05 AM	#10
Necrosis HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,838 Rep Power: 129 System Specs	Quality is all in the ear of the beholder.