new aureon sky/space betadriver

inteks · Jun 18, 2003, 11:08 PM

hi,
kuckst du hier

http://supportde.terratec.net/module...icle&artid=284

cya
tom

evil_one · Jun 19, 2003, 09:14 PM

ya, nothing new, the drivers suck, as usual :P

demalion · Jun 25, 2003, 04:46 PM

I've been considering the Prodigy ROM update. Could someone please point me towards a complete list of issues (stability, performance, quality) with the Aureon drivers, and contrast with the problems with the Prodigy drivers?

evil_one/Fallen Angel, perhaps you could share your direct experience, in detail?

evil_one · Jun 26, 2003, 05:37 PM

With the Aureon drivers I was suffering from the following issues:
1.pops at the beginning of playback/recording
2.pops during playback/recording
3.feedback/distortion
4. driver "crash"

These do not occur on every system, so your experience may vary. I've contaced Terratec's support, and the guy did try to help me, but in the end, came up with nothing.

In detail:
1. with the build 11 driver and earlier, every time at the beginning of recording or playback of an audio file there was a single pop. It was fixed by the build 12 driver, however...
2. pops during playback/recording occuerd instead. nice fix. yay
3. This issue occurs in specific situations, like: play a file in i.e. winamp (doesn't matter if wave out or DS is used), pasue playback, and play sth back in Media Player. Result: cover your ears and run for the stop button with your mouse or the amp's power switch (seriously, this could cause damage if left for a while).
4. sometimes, the driver would "crash", to the point that the system was still running, but no audio could be heard, and the apps returned errors (like "cannot initialize audio device").

None of these are occuring with the latest Prodigy 7.1 driver, except for a quiet, harmless distortion (this issue occurs even on Creative's cards, so it's not limited to Envy 24HT).
Plus, the Prodigy driver offers better functionality. The only issue I'm having with it is that not all playback/recording sources are avalible in both the Windows mixer and the Prodigy Console (not a problem actually... just inconvenience).

My head is spinning a bit at the moment, so the above may not make sense in some parts.

demalion · Jun 27, 2003, 03:24 PM

Thanks! My head must be spinning the same way, since it makes perfect sense to me.

I'd already gone and tried the BIOS modification, and am rather impressed by the functionality of the Prodigy drivers. My only concern relates to the SPDIF ports as far as the switch goes...but hopefully the card ROMs see the support on the card for their differing ports in the same way.

I didn't have the "pop" issue, but I did have a persistent problem under XP with the sound no longer working after a certain amount of time, which I'd have to reboot (EDIT: actually, shutdown seemed to be required, not just soft reboot...I think hard reset worked too) to solve. I'd thought it might be related to improperlyh detected microphone pins for my Antec case...the Terratec manual and website don't discuss pin configurations at all, and the discussion in the manual for my Antec Sonata (the case with the front mounted mic and headphone jacks that I'm trying to connect) for microphone pin out required me to try and research and make some guesses from other sources. However, the problem doesn't seem to occur with the Prodigy drivers, so they're a keeper until Terratec steps up to the plate.

You can get many volume controls back in Windows by using the "Sensaura" as your default sound device, but I'm not sure if the Sensaura interface supports the full featureset of these cards at best quality. My music playback programs support specifying different devices, so as long as the quality isn't too horrible for "Sensaura", it seems a good option, and then you can pick "Prodigy 7.1" for music programs. I would like more information on what the Sensaura interface can accept and output, though.

evil_one · Jun 27, 2003, 04:32 PM

Sensaura supports only 48, 96 and 192KHz sampling rates (all other data is resampled by software).
The SPDI/F will work withaout problems, as the optical transmitters recieve/generate normal S/PDIF signal. It may be required to select either "PRO" or "CON" in the Console. You may even make coaxial S/PDIF output (not sure aobut input, still haven't looked into this :P) yourself, I've written a guide and posted it somewere in this forum.
The data that is uploaded into the EEPROM is just 32 bytes long and serves only for identification purposes. It doesn't contain firmware of any kind.

demalion · Jun 27, 2003, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by evil_one
Sensaura supports only 48, 96 and 192KHz sampling rates (all other data is resampled by software).

Yep, but it should still provide some of the missing controls in Windows (if those were even the particular controls you were talking about). That's good to know, though, for the gaming usage I intend to use the "Sensaura" device for. Hmm...I was actually wondering more about things like 24-bit support and the effective resolution of its 3D position software mixing. 24 bit might be overkill, but there might be some features games would turn on if they notice the card is supporting that and 3D audio. Maybe there is a whitepaper on the Sensaura website for recent versions, or some related discussion on a website for one of the cards using it?

Quote:

The SPDI/F will work withaout problems, as the optical transmitters recieve/generate normal S/PDIF signal. It may be required to select either "PRO" or "CON" in the Console. You may even make coaxial S/PDIF output (not sure aobut input, still haven't looked into this :P) yourself, I've written a guide and posted it somewere in this forum.

Ah, so coaxial transmission doesn't require any specific encoding, it is just taking advantage of the better shielding and frequency capabilities in the cable type? Thanks, didn't know that.

I'm a bit of a neophyte as far as SPDIF.

Quote:

The data that is uploaded into the EEPROM is just 32 bytes long and serves only for identification purposes. It doesn't contain firmware of any kind.

Yeah, I noticed the size, but I wasn't sure if there was one general "Envy24" ROM firmware that might cause the chip to behave differently based on some flags included in that. If there is a firmware anywhere onboard, this seems (AFAIK) a possibility, but your comments above tells me that this possibility either has no reason to exist, or simply doesn't matter (no special behavior needed, so why change ROM behavior?), atleast for cards this similar in featureset.

evil_one · Jun 27, 2003, 08:43 PM

Quote:

24 bit might be overkill, but there might be some features games would turn on if they notice the card is supporting that and 3D audio.

I'm not aware of anything like that, and also see no reason why should any features depend on 24 bit sound support. Sensaura does support it though.

Quote:

Maybe there is a whitepaper on the Sensaura website for recent versions, or some related discussion on a website for one of the cards using it?

They don't seem to like discussing different builds of their drivers. As for discussions on websites - don't know, possibly. Google around if you're interested, perhaps you'll find something.
I am aware that Sensaura might be planning to introduce EAX 3/Advanced HD support in the near future.

Quote:

Yeah, I noticed the size, but I wasn't sure if there was one general "Envy24" ROM firmware that might cause the chip to behave differently based on some flags included in that.

The drivers perform all forms of configuration. The EEPROM is there to store PCI Device ID and additional information, wich can be used by the driver developers as they desire. On the Aureon/Prodigy 7.1 cards it simply contains a single string, wich is read by the drivers, and if it's incorrect, they disable some interfaces (that's why the control panel doesn't work - it doesn't "see" the driver). The chip can communicate with any external devices through the general purpose input/output pins, wich are, again, configured by the drivers.

demalion · Jun 27, 2003, 10:13 PM

Thanks again for the info. As for 24-bit sound, I was thinking of something like the advanced EAX modes, but I also had in mind perhaps some optimizations for being able to assume certain capabilities for direct channel mixing on output. That's exactly the type of thing I think developers might look for when using custom software mixing engines (as UT 2k3 seems to be fastest with sometimes, and Doom 3 is supposed to use)...they might have a shortcut for 16-bit downsampling from their mixing format that they wouldn't need with 24-bit support. Besides...my hardware is capable of it, it's nice if it's utilized.

If Sensaura exposes that for 3D positioning (I assume that's what you meant), it seems like they are concentrating on quality as well as speed...I just wish I had some assurance, as some tests I ran through the Sensaura device did not sound very appealing to me.

Heh, maybe I should hunt through the registry, and maybe write a "Sensaura tweaker" or something, as perhaps that's what I'd need to be satisfied in that regard...I don't like black boxes between my OS and the hardware, but you've given me hope that my worry is unwarranted, and thanks again.

Yes, I'll be googling off and on about this to continue some research, I'm just concerned about the timeliness of what I'll find (Sensaura has been around for a long time).

evil_one · Jun 27, 2003, 11:07 PM

SFX quality in games is still rather poor, so I wouldn't worry about mixing. Besides, there seems to be no point in providing audiophile quality sound in games, there aren't many situations in 3D shooters when you can actually appreciate it... Plus, most people use those crappy "multimedia" speaker systems, they easily make up for fancy 24 bit mixing

(It irritates me actually, people often buy a great soundcard, connect it to a bunch of wannabe speakers and brag about how great it sounds. Yeah, right, they couldn't tell apart an Audigy2 from a Live! on those :P especially if they're using digital output).
Developers should concentrate on providing better positioning, occulsions etc. IMO. Those reverbs sound awful :P

Sensaura driver is configured by the sound card's main driver AFAIK, I don't expect you'll find anything interesting in the registry. (In case of the Prodigy 7.1 v1.9 drivers, the Sensaura driver (EsiDS3D.sys, this file is actually common for other drivers using Sensaura, can carry a different name and version number though) is initialised by Pd71Sens.sys.

Jun 18, 2003, 11:08 PM	#1
inteks HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 90 Rep Power: 0	new aureon sky/space betadriver hi, kuckst du hier http://supportde.terratec.net/module...icle&artid=284 cya tom __________________ 3820TG i5@3.5Ghz HD5650@700/900 Windows7 On Intel X25-M G2 Postville 160GB 3820tray --- 3820TG ATI vBios MOD --- 1810t TME MOD --- Acc Sensor Mod

Jun 27, 2003, 10:13 PM	#9
demalion ={DH}=demalion Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 0 Rep Power: 0	Thanks again for the info. As for 24-bit sound, I was thinking of something like the advanced EAX modes, but I also had in mind perhaps some optimizations for being able to assume certain capabilities for direct channel mixing on output. That's exactly the type of thing I think developers might look for when using custom software mixing engines (as UT 2k3 seems to be fastest with sometimes, and Doom 3 is supposed to use)...they might have a shortcut for 16-bit downsampling from their mixing format that they wouldn't need with 24-bit support. Besides...my hardware is capable of it, it's nice if it's utilized. If Sensaura exposes that for 3D positioning (I assume that's what you meant), it seems like they are concentrating on quality as well as speed...I just wish I had some assurance, as some tests I ran through the Sensaura device did not sound very appealing to me. Heh, maybe I should hunt through the registry, and maybe write a "Sensaura tweaker" or something, as perhaps that's what I'd need to be satisfied in that regard...I don't like black boxes between my OS and the hardware, but you've given me hope that my worry is unwarranted, and thanks again. Yes, I'll be googling off and on about this to continue some research, I'm just concerned about the timeliness of what I'll find (Sensaura has been around for a long time). Last edited by demalion; Jun 27, 2003 at 10:19 PM.

Jun 19, 2003, 09:14 PM	#2
evil_one DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 109 Rep Power: 0	ya, nothing new, the drivers suck, as usual :P

Jun 25, 2003, 04:46 PM	#3
demalion ={DH}=demalion Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 0 Rep Power: 0	I've been considering the Prodigy ROM update. Could someone please point me towards a complete list of issues (stability, performance, quality) with the Aureon drivers, and contrast with the problems with the Prodigy drivers? evil_one/Fallen Angel, perhaps you could share your direct experience, in detail?

Jun 26, 2003, 05:37 PM	#4
evil_one DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 109 Rep Power: 0	With the Aureon drivers I was suffering from the following issues: 1.pops at the beginning of playback/recording 2.pops during playback/recording 3.feedback/distortion 4. driver "crash" These do not occur on every system, so your experience may vary. I've contaced Terratec's support, and the guy did try to help me, but in the end, came up with nothing. In detail: 1. with the build 11 driver and earlier, every time at the beginning of recording or playback of an audio file there was a single pop. It was fixed by the build 12 driver, however... 2. pops during playback/recording occuerd instead. nice fix. yay 3. This issue occurs in specific situations, like: play a file in i.e. winamp (doesn't matter if wave out or DS is used), pasue playback, and play sth back in Media Player. Result: cover your ears and run for the stop button with your mouse or the amp's power switch (seriously, this could cause damage if left for a while). 4. sometimes, the driver would "crash", to the point that the system was still running, but no audio could be heard, and the apps returned errors (like "cannot initialize audio device"). None of these are occuring with the latest Prodigy 7.1 driver, except for a quiet, harmless distortion (this issue occurs even on Creative's cards, so it's not limited to Envy 24HT). Plus, the Prodigy driver offers better functionality. The only issue I'm having with it is that not all playback/recording sources are avalible in both the Windows mixer and the Prodigy Console (not a problem actually... just inconvenience). My head is spinning a bit at the moment, so the above may not make sense in some parts.

Jun 27, 2003, 03:24 PM	#5
demalion ={DH}=demalion Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 0 Rep Power: 0	Thanks! My head must be spinning the same way, since it makes perfect sense to me. I'd already gone and tried the BIOS modification, and am rather impressed by the functionality of the Prodigy drivers. My only concern relates to the SPDIF ports as far as the switch goes...but hopefully the card ROMs see the support on the card for their differing ports in the same way. I didn't have the "pop" issue, but I did have a persistent problem under XP with the sound no longer working after a certain amount of time, which I'd have to reboot (EDIT: actually, shutdown seemed to be required, not just soft reboot...I think hard reset worked too) to solve. I'd thought it might be related to improperlyh detected microphone pins for my Antec case...the Terratec manual and website don't discuss pin configurations at all, and the discussion in the manual for my Antec Sonata (the case with the front mounted mic and headphone jacks that I'm trying to connect) for microphone pin out required me to try and research and make some guesses from other sources. However, the problem doesn't seem to occur with the Prodigy drivers, so they're a keeper until Terratec steps up to the plate. You can get many volume controls back in Windows by using the "Sensaura" as your default sound device, but I'm not sure if the Sensaura interface supports the full featureset of these cards at best quality. My music playback programs support specifying different devices, so as long as the quality isn't too horrible for "Sensaura", it seems a good option, and then you can pick "Prodigy 7.1" for music programs. I would like more information on what the Sensaura interface can accept and output, though.

Jun 27, 2003, 04:32 PM	#6
evil_one DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 109 Rep Power: 0	Sensaura supports only 48, 96 and 192KHz sampling rates (all other data is resampled by software). The SPDI/F will work withaout problems, as the optical transmitters recieve/generate normal S/PDIF signal. It may be required to select either "PRO" or "CON" in the Console. You may even make coaxial S/PDIF output (not sure aobut input, still haven't looked into this :P) yourself, I've written a guide and posted it somewere in this forum. The data that is uploaded into the EEPROM is just 32 bytes long and serves only for identification purposes. It doesn't contain firmware of any kind.

Jun 27, 2003, 11:07 PM	#10
evil_one DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 109 Rep Power: 0	SFX quality in games is still rather poor, so I wouldn't worry about mixing. Besides, there seems to be no point in providing audiophile quality sound in games, there aren't many situations in 3D shooters when you can actually appreciate it... Plus, most people use those crappy "multimedia" speaker systems, they easily make up for fancy 24 bit mixing (It irritates me actually, people often buy a great soundcard, connect it to a bunch of wannabe speakers and brag about how great it sounds. Yeah, right, they couldn't tell apart an Audigy2 from a Live! on those :P especially if they're using digital output). Developers should concentrate on providing better positioning, occulsions etc. IMO. Those reverbs sound awful :P Sensaura driver is configured by the sound card's main driver AFAIK, I don't expect you'll find anything interesting in the registry. (In case of the Prodigy 7.1 v1.9 drivers, the Sensaura driver (EsiDS3D.sys, this file is actually common for other drivers using Sensaura, can carry a different name and version number though) is initialised by Pd71Sens.sys.