Bellator

ok I am no sound engineer, so this whole 24/96khz playback thing is confusing me a little. On the one hand I hear that the Audigy 2 (not ZS) does provide support for this while on the other I hear it does not provide true 24/96khz playback or something like that? huh? Also where this playback and the Audigy 2 ZS is concerned, outside of the heavily touted 108db SNR does the Audigy 2 ZS provide any other hardware improvements over teh vanilla Audigy 2 concerning playback? or is it all software?

Thanks, mixed up just a smidgeon

Bell

Oh one other question... I have ordered some DVD-A products but since Mediasource cannot play dvd video... and since the dvd vid players on my comp can't play dvd audio... how the hell can I watch the videos on the DVD-A discs while also listening to the MLP tracks. Any good product recommendations?

dj_stick

both audigy 2 models can play 24/96khz streams
as for the difference in audio quality, idon;t think there is any. The only difference is that the ZS has an extra stereo pair output
technically speaking the hardware is almost identical

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rico01

The ZS version has support for 7.1 channels where the normal A2 support 6.1. Any other hardware differences are minimal if any.

// Rico

Judas

The chip itself is saposed to provide 24 bit 96khz audio.. however.. along the path to through various other DSP prossesors and various other things... due to them being limited to say 16 or 18 bit and 48khz in some cases.... you will never hear the true 24/96khz ... it just simply won't happen... it's play on marketting... and frankly... creative is doing a very good immoral job of it.... (my opinion)...

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dj_stick

the 10k2 chip is limited at 48khz, BUT the p16v chip, when in use, allows direct 24/96 khz. I don't know how it works in creative drivers, but im pretty sure its used for everything (Except EAX and soundfonts) those effects are then mixed into the 96khz stream

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Judas

but the final output chip doesn't reproduce at 24bit/96khz at all...

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Necrosis

Well...that is kinda not true. It just gets converted back to it..via digital and/or in relation to asio. The internal is still 16 though, however something I note different is the ZS has a 24/96 specific setting for asio.

Judas

regardless of what happens.... enless all the chips and everything is true 24bit/96khz.... there isn't true 24bit/96khz results....

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Bellator

So how many stops does the signal take from your DVD player to your speakers? how many different components have to support true 24/96? And can you tell the difference between a 'true' 24/96 signal and a 24/96 signal that is downmixed and then upmixed again?

Necrosis

Then what is the point of having 24/96 Asio support if based on what you saying the card cannot do 24? Something seems a miss here to me.....

Necrosis

Why can't your DVD-Rom play DVD-A. What does it do? My old two year old Toshiba will? Do you the digital audio cable hooked up from your DVD-Rom to your sound card? Honestly I haven't messed around with DVD-A all that much. Strange though..wonder if a firmware update might take care of your problem.

What brand and model is your DVD-Rom?

Bellator

you miss understand Necrosis I can play DVD-A fine, nothing wrong with my hardware... the problem arises when I want to listen to the DVD-A MLP tracks and watch the video found on DVD-A discs at the same time .
Creative MediaSource is great for listening to the 24bit tracks, but i can't watch the video... and a software DVD player will let me watch the DVD vid fine, but i can't listen to the MLP tracks at the same time. does that make any sense?

dj_stick

the audigy 2 cards CAN stay at pure 24/96 khz, by bypassing the 10k2 fx chip

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Judas

I think all of agree.. that we need some more professional person that know the layout of the card can tell us exactly were each signal is going...

How can you bypass the main processing chip of the creative card? the only way to do that i know of is using the Line in and outputing directly to the audio out... which bypasses pretty well everything... it's almost a straight through connection... However... it's a little weird with creative cards as sometimes it does just bypass.. and sometimes it doesn't.... orginally .... the older cards you could apply EAX effects.... but with the newer drivers.. it's been disabled.... *lost*

Another factor is the fact that speakers have to be able to reproduce the 24bit/96khz sound.. not to mention that amplifier that you connecting to... has to be able to reproduce at that....

Currently.... on majority of all the computer speakers i've checked out.... except for the extremely expensive Logitech or Creative Gigaworks newer systems (7.1)... just can't do it... they all range up to 44-48khz and then the rest is lost.... the 24 bit may still be somewhat there... A True 24bit 96khz amplfier and some damn good speakers.... 24 bit and 96khz sounds serprisingly excellent

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dj_stick

this is the flow diagram on how the 10k1 fx chip is bypassed to the 24/96 high quality chip http://kxproject.lugosoft.com/p16v.php?language=en, btw my speakers (edirol ma-10D) can support 24/95 digital audio

edit: the diagram may be for the kX Drivers, but the hardware routing is the same no matter the software used

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Judas

so you've up sampled some audio to 24/96 and played it and you can hear the difference?

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dj_stick

i don;t have an audigy 2

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Judas

oh..... i thought you had tried one out... (i myself had an audigy 2 ZS for all of a week before i decided it was garbage... )

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dj_stick

but in kX, the audio streams to bypass the fx8010 in the 10k2 chip if the wave device is set to HQ, the creative drivers must do this automatically, also any reverb (ie EAX) effects, the p16v HQ chip sends the data to the fx8010 to be effected, which is downsampled to 48khz in the process, and then upsampled and mixed with the dry signal after leaving the 10k2 chip

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Bellator

i am so confused

dj_stick

creative did the dodgy, only part of the card supports 24/96 playback/recording, any onboard effects like soundfonts and EAX reverbs are still at 48khz

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Bellator

so when you listen to a 24/96 source, ala DVD-A, does it bypass the 48khz chip and go straight to the 24/96 processor, and from there to the speakers? the flow chart was, um, intense... not sure i followed it right.

dj_stick

yes that is exactly how it should work

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Judas

Some DVD Audio programs can't-don't send the signal directly to the speakers.... it's all processed.... Bellator.... don't worry about being confused... a bunch of us have been confused since the initial first Audigy... and it's "24 bit/96khz" playback...

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dj_stick

in passthrough mode any digital in source will go straight through the card to the digital outs without any processing at all

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Bellator

yeah, I think I'm starting to get a better grasp on this though, so these threads def aren't a waste Def gotta give a big thank you to dj who obviously has a better understanding of this than most. Thanks for the explanations dj!

dj_stick

no worries, any other queries you have i will try to help you understand

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