EAX4 vs A3D 2.0

swaaye · Oct 19, 2004, 05:27 PM

Yesterday I loaded up Half Life on my little K6-3 powered retrorig. The system has a Monster Sound MX300 I picked up for $3 used. I'd never heard A3D 2.0 until yesterday and I really liked what I heard.

It got me thinking about the whole 3D standards war back in 99-00, when Aureal was still around. I have a Audigy 2 ZS in my main system and I know it has Creative's latest fancy EAX iteration.

Has Creative caught up with the features that A3D 2.0 had? EAX was originally such a joke, but I know EAX 3 and 4 have added a lot of features.

summoner[H] · Oct 19, 2004, 10:46 PM

I have been using EAX4 in Everquest2 beta and it sounds amazing.

Judas · Oct 19, 2004, 11:48 PM

personally... i'm very much unimpressed by what creative had offered now and in the past.... Every card i've come by has either had some form of weird capability problems or something stupid in the way creative would FORCE the user to use it in a certain way.... no options... and on top of that, they charge 50-100% MORE then a similare if not better alternative.... not to mention that when they release a new card... ALL previous cards are instantly cripled and disconntinued...

swaaye · Oct 20, 2004, 12:04 AM

Heh, I just got this Audigy 2 ZS for $57 after rebate at BB. It was the Limited Gamers Edition that comes with Halo, Tomb Raider, Raven Shield, Splinter Cell, and Jedi Academy.

I don't call that a rip off

I upgraded from my 5 year old SB Live!. Pretty sweet upgrade, sounds a lot better. I'm just wondering about the 3D API compared to A3D 2.0. The audio clarity was immediately obviously better than the Live.

GeneralClaymore · Oct 20, 2004, 11:49 AM

i upgraded from my Sblive 5.1 i been using for 4+ yrs i got it when it came out, when i heard the A2 i neary fainted.

Elrik · Oct 21, 2004, 11:34 AM

Judas has a point but you guys are all right in a way. Audigy2 ZS is rated as a great card for gaming and for certain music applications. However, when they first came out, you gotta admit, they were a rip-off. Of course, now, after quite a bit of time has passed, you're able to find it cheaper, and rebates help. But your average Joe everywhere will not always get such an option. Some places offer it, some don't. Also, the fact that many older products are abandonded is true as well. I wish they had all-in-one drivers that detect your card but offer the latest optimizations, similar to the driver structure of what NVIDIA and ATI do for their video cards. I realize video and sound cards are different but I remember a discussion a while back on some hardware forums, with a lot of people participating, and, technically, it is possible for the sound cards as well. If only Creative made some effort.

Regardless though, it's too bad that pure competition and engineering talent between Aureal and Creative had to be reduced to whomever could sue better. I would love to see more competition in the gaming sound card front. And I don't just mean in pricing but in features. I like what NVIDIA was doing with Sound Storm and Dolby Digital support in games but not sure where that is going to go in the long run.

PS I remember an old issue called "The squeal of death" with Audigy that even Creative couldn't explain. Has it ever been fixed in the later updates?

thomasabarnes · Oct 21, 2004, 12:32 PM

LOL yeah, the squeal of death was finally fixed, in one of the EAX updates. I think it was the first EAX 4 update. Youre right Elrik, it took Creative a long time to get drivers for the Audigy fixed. Man I bought one when they first came out, and a lot of buyers were highly pissed! I was very upset as well. I couldnt even use the Audigy with Sonar, things were so messed up, and there was a major problem with the Audigy playing soundfonts correctly, too. Man people were verbally abusing Creative after they bought an Audigy and saw that the claim hype for it to be good for music production with as low as 2ms latency was not true for a lot of Audigy buyers. Man that was a crazy time period.

thomasabarnes

swaaye · Oct 21, 2004, 05:14 PM

Heh, well I'm glad I waiting a few years before buying one of these 10k2 cards

Sounded like a real nightmare.

Honestly, the Live! is still a capable card. Between the kX Project drivers and the hacked up Audigy drivers you can really get a good experience out of games with it. Even Creative's official drivers support hardware DS3D and EAX2 which is the same as 90% of sound cards/chips anyway. Granted its front DAC is average, but it's back DAC is good, and if your speakers suck you'll never notice anyway. Just look at all the people using onboard audio and thinking it's superior to a Live or equal to Audigys. Onboard audio is just awful pretty much 100% of the time.

The Audigy 2 ZS here has impressed me so far with music, with it's obviously superior clarity thru freq resp and stereo sep, and in Halo with its EAX & 3D Audio support. I'm waiting to try HL2 on it.

Soundstorm has been abandoned as far as I can tell. There is no hype at all surrounding any future developments so I'm pretty sure it's over. NForce 4 is using Realtek codecs for AC97 audio (no NVAPU there.) It's depressing since NV was really the only serious gaming audio competiton left. VIA's Envy series is interesting but it's really just a snazzed up AC97 codec. It lacks any level of hardware acceleration. And now Creative bought Sensaura (add that to the list of their imperialistic acquisitions!) so I'm sure that will become harder for IHVs to license for new chips.

What a mess. But, the Audigy does work well now and if you can get it cheap, hell go for it IMO. Believe it or not I'm considering the PCMCIA Audigy 2 as well simply because it is the only such offering for games and my laptop's Realtek is pretty buggy and seriously sucks CPU with 3d options enabled.

**dj_stick** · Oct 21, 2004, 08:57 PM

the new intel HD audio specs look promising

swaaye · Oct 21, 2004, 09:49 PM

it reminds me a lot of Via Envy24. It has some additional tweaks but it's not really a gaming enhancement tech, and it is totally dependent on the mobo makers using quality components (unless you have speakers with digital in). I don't believe it's hardware accelerated 3D audio, nor does it bring any new 3d technologies.

Elrik · Oct 22, 2004, 07:36 AM

Yes, it's unfortunate... Glad that there are at least some good driver modders out there to help breathe new life into older sound cards.

Oct 19, 2004, 05:27 PM	#1
swaaye HardwareHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 17 Rep Power: 0	EAX4 vs A3D 2.0 Yesterday I loaded up Half Life on my little K6-3 powered retrorig. The system has a Monster Sound MX300 I picked up for $3 used. I'd never heard A3D 2.0 until yesterday and I really liked what I heard. It got me thinking about the whole 3D standards war back in 99-00, when Aureal was still around. I have a Audigy 2 ZS in my main system and I know it has Creative's latest fancy EAX iteration. Has Creative caught up with the features that A3D 2.0 had? EAX was originally such a joke, but I know EAX 3 and 4 have added a lot of features.

Oct 19, 2004, 10:46 PM	#2
summoner[H] DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 7 Rep Power: 0	I have been using EAX4 in Everquest2 beta and it sounds amazing. __________________ Socket 939 Athlon 64 3500+ @ 2.50Ghz Thermalright 948 w/panaflo H12 92mm fan 2 x 512MB PC4000 Crucial Ballistix @ 500mhz 2.5-3-3-8-1T Sapphire X800XTPE 580/580 MSI K8N NEO2 Platinum Nforce3 PC Power & Cooling 510 D Creative Audigy 2 Cooler Master ATC 201B

Oct 20, 2004, 11:49 AM	#5
GeneralClaymore HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: MI Posts: 434 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	i upgraded from my Sblive 5.1 i been using for 4+ yrs i got it when it came out, when i heard the A2 i neary fainted. __________________ Source: x-fi titanium hd 2x LT1124ACN+ 2x LT1115 > Matrix M-Stage V2 /w 2x LME49710NA> DT880 pro 250ohm

Oct 21, 2004, 12:32 PM	#7
thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,375 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	LOL yeah, the squeal of death was finally fixed, in one of the EAX updates. I think it was the first EAX 4 update. Youre right Elrik, it took Creative a long time to get drivers for the Audigy fixed. Man I bought one when they first came out, and a lot of buyers were highly pissed! I was very upset as well. I couldnt even use the Audigy with Sonar, things were so messed up, and there was a major problem with the Audigy playing soundfonts correctly, too. Man people were verbally abusing Creative after they bought an Audigy and saw that the claim hype for it to be good for music production with as low as 2ms latency was not true for a lot of Audigy buyers. Man that was a crazy time period. thomasabarnes __________________ May a song always touch you in a positive way. SONAR X1D Expanded, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB x2 HDD 7200 rpm My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs

Oct 20, 2004, 12:04 AM	Thread Starter #4
swaaye HardwareHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 17 Rep Power: 0	Heh, I just got this Audigy 2 ZS for $57 after rebate at BB. It was the Limited Gamers Edition that comes with Halo, Tomb Raider, Raven Shield, Splinter Cell, and Jedi Academy. I don't call that a rip off I upgraded from my 5 year old SB Live!. Pretty sweet upgrade, sounds a lot better. I'm just wondering about the 3D API compared to A3D 2.0. The audio clarity was immediately obviously better than the Live.

Oct 21, 2004, 11:34 AM	#6
Elrik DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 38 Rep Power: 0	Judas has a point but you guys are all right in a way. Audigy2 ZS is rated as a great card for gaming and for certain music applications. However, when they first came out, you gotta admit, they were a rip-off. Of course, now, after quite a bit of time has passed, you're able to find it cheaper, and rebates help. But your average Joe everywhere will not always get such an option. Some places offer it, some don't. Also, the fact that many older products are abandonded is true as well. I wish they had all-in-one drivers that detect your card but offer the latest optimizations, similar to the driver structure of what NVIDIA and ATI do for their video cards. I realize video and sound cards are different but I remember a discussion a while back on some hardware forums, with a lot of people participating, and, technically, it is possible for the sound cards as well. If only Creative made some effort. Regardless though, it's too bad that pure competition and engineering talent between Aureal and Creative had to be reduced to whomever could sue better. I would love to see more competition in the gaming sound card front. And I don't just mean in pricing but in features. I like what NVIDIA was doing with Sound Storm and Dolby Digital support in games but not sure where that is going to go in the long run. PS I remember an old issue called "The squeal of death" with Audigy that even Creative couldn't explain. Has it ever been fixed in the later updates?

Oct 21, 2004, 05:14 PM	Thread Starter #8
swaaye HardwareHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 17 Rep Power: 0	Heh, well I'm glad I waiting a few years before buying one of these 10k2 cards Sounded like a real nightmare. Honestly, the Live! is still a capable card. Between the kX Project drivers and the hacked up Audigy drivers you can really get a good experience out of games with it. Even Creative's official drivers support hardware DS3D and EAX2 which is the same as 90% of sound cards/chips anyway. Granted its front DAC is average, but it's back DAC is good, and if your speakers suck you'll never notice anyway. Just look at all the people using onboard audio and thinking it's superior to a Live or equal to Audigys. Onboard audio is just awful pretty much 100% of the time. The Audigy 2 ZS here has impressed me so far with music, with it's obviously superior clarity thru freq resp and stereo sep, and in Halo with its EAX & 3D Audio support. I'm waiting to try HL2 on it. Soundstorm has been abandoned as far as I can tell. There is no hype at all surrounding any future developments so I'm pretty sure it's over. NForce 4 is using Realtek codecs for AC97 audio (no NVAPU there.) It's depressing since NV was really the only serious gaming audio competiton left. VIA's Envy series is interesting but it's really just a snazzed up AC97 codec. It lacks any level of hardware acceleration. And now Creative bought Sensaura (add that to the list of their imperialistic acquisitions!) so I'm sure that will become harder for IHVs to license for new chips. What a mess. But, the Audigy does work well now and if you can get it cheap, hell go for it IMO. Believe it or not I'm considering the PCMCIA Audigy 2 as well simply because it is the only such offering for games and my laptop's Realtek is pretty buggy and seriously sucks CPU with 3d options enabled.

Oct 21, 2004, 09:49 PM	Thread Starter #10
swaaye HardwareHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 17 Rep Power: 0	it reminds me a lot of Via Envy24. It has some additional tweaks but it's not really a gaming enhancement tech, and it is totally dependent on the mobo makers using quality components (unless you have speakers with digital in). I don't believe it's hardware accelerated 3D audio, nor does it bring any new 3d technologies.

Oct 22, 2004, 07:36 AM	#11
Elrik DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 38 Rep Power: 0	Yes, it's unfortunate... Glad that there are at least some good driver modders out there to help breathe new life into older sound cards.