Creative Rant

Necrosis · Jan 4, 2003, 11:39 AM

I'm browsing the Creative Audigy Newsgroup and came upon this very interesting post. I thought it would be a good idea to share it with the rest of you.

Author: koneill

Quote:

I work as Senior Product Manager for a well-known PC manufacturer that sells
high-performance gaming PCs. We use Creative's Audigy series of sound cards
as the default cards in most of our systems because Creative's marketing has
ingrained in the minds of the general public that Creative is the be-all
end-all of PC audio. This is unfortunate; given the volume of systems we
build, my department has come to see Creative as a company who overspends on
marketing so-so products as opposed to allocating funds to product
developement and support. Yes, we have contacts within Creative, but an
inquiry usually results in something like the following: "We don't have that
motherboard to test with," "Check the disk.id on the installation CD you're
using," or "We don't see that issue here; I don't think it's our problem."
This is disconcerting.

On numerous machines, we've seen reproducible bugs, one in particular that
is fairly severe and causes a large number of customer and tech support
calls. The questioin is typically, "My computer is running really slow and
hesitating, and my games run really choppy or don't start until I reboot my
system!" Here are the details on how to reproduce this particular bug:

Install Windows XP Home or Pro
Install system (chipset) drivers - reboot
Install video drivers - reboot
Install sound drivers - reboot
Open Creative Surround Mixer
- change speaker configurations (ex. 2 Speakers to 5.1 Speakers)
Close Creative Surround Mixer
Open Task Manager (right-click the task bar and select Task Manager)
Go to the Processes tab and look for CTHELPER.exe
- note CPU utilization for this item is (and remains at) ~99%

This bogs down the entire system, rendering a customer's system usless; he
must end the task (CTHELPER.exe), reboot the system, and/or run msconfig and
disable CTHELPER.exe from loading on startup. This creates a small
incovenience in that CTHELPER.exe is the background app that syncs Surround
Mixer's settings with Windows' Sound and Audio Devices Properties' settings;
without CTHELPER.exe running, if a user switches speaker settings with
Surround Mixer, for example, the change will not be applied in Windows Sound
and Audio Devices Properties applet, thus potentially causing trouble.

One of the questions I was asked was, "Why do your customers need to change
speaker configuations?" That's not the point. If they've paid $3500 for a
system, they should be able to make a change as simple as their speaker
configuration all day long - without bringing that $3500 system to its
knees - as far as I'm concerned.

We've reporduced this bug on both Intel and AMD platforms using various
motherboards, video cards, with Service Pack 1 and without, with DX9 and
without, with Creative's .252 and .253 drivers, etc. In short, we've tried
everything we could think to try with no "fix." It's Creative's software -
end of story.

Regarding other bugs: some of the latest, greatest games, such as RalliSport
Challenge and Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit 2 both incur a sever performance
hit (especially RalliSport) with EAX or "Hardware 3D Sound" enabled - to the
point that these games are nearly unplayable.

Now the funny part: We have absolutely zero problems with Hercules'
Gamesurround Fortissimo III 7.1 or DigiFire 7.1 cards. Yes, these cards are
"cheap" card based on lesser codecs and don't support EAX3, but there are
not CPU utilization issues with their software. Furthermore, we've yet to
play a single game with or without EAX (1.0 and 2.0) or some other 3D
hardware accelerated sound and experience a single performance or
compatibility issue. Their cards and software just work, period. Sure, the
fidelity isn't as pristine as that of an Audigy, but it's still very good,
and for $50-80, they're really, really impressive.

Since I've worked for this company, we seen similar miscellaneous problems
with Creative's sound cards, from the original Live! series to the Audigy.
Why should I not pull Creative sound cards completely from all of our
systems? Give me a reason. We're very influential; many consumers look at
what we choose to design into our systems and use that as their personal
product benchmark when looking to upgrade their systems. There may be some
customers who would be disappointed that they couldn't order one of our
systems with a Creative sound card, but it wouldn't take long for us to show
them that there are options out there that are more affordable and
trouble-free. On top of that, we could reduce the base cost of all of our
systems, which would be a massive boon to Executive Management.

Creative: Get your act together.

Vampyromaniac · Jan 4, 2003, 01:05 PM

Heh, I thought you were going to rant, in a creative fashion

DallasStar · Jan 4, 2003, 06:35 PM

nice pun!!

RIV@NVX · Jan 4, 2003, 07:40 PM

Story is always the same... their software is uselles whole CD of unfunctional well-designed apps.
My computer science teacher said: Why would they want to optimize apps - it doesn't bring money. New card and new design of apps brings (because it can be advertised). So, what would you expect?

mbh831 · Jan 7, 2003, 06:00 AM

Don't even get me started on creative....

SmoothImmigrant · Jan 7, 2003, 08:13 AM

lol, I know what you mean. I just got a Hercules Fortissmo III 7.1 card. Hopefully and knowingly, it will beat my sb live value hands down. I am getting sick of the crackling and such, anyways.

Numa · Jan 8, 2003, 05:16 PM

[COLOR=darkred]MSI KT266APro2 (with Hyperion 4.45), Win98SE (Updated), 512Mo DDR, XP 1700+, GeForce3Ti500, DirectX9 and a very clean system.[/COLOR]

Now that I've read that interesting post, I feel like dizzy. I always thought the NVidia detonators were the cause of my slow down and lock up system problems (see the NVidia drivers9x forum section). I have a Creative Audigy Player soundcard and I noticed it's impossible to get the 5.1 sound working properly. The speakers test fails whatever I try with the settings. Therefore I have to use the more common 4.1 configuration which disappoints me as I bought a set of 5.1 speakers (DTT2500) to be able to watch DVD's with a great sound. Moreover the Audigy drivers for win9x haven't been updated for a long time now.

Could the Audigy drivers be the cause of my problems? I thought the Detonators were. I can't install newer versions than the NV28.32!

Can anyone help me?

Jan 4, 2003, 01:05 PM	#2
Vampyromaniac confutatis maledictis Join Date: May 2002 Location: somewhere dark Posts: 5,974 Rep Power: 77 System Specs	Heh, I thought you were going to rant, in a creative fashion __________________ *Digitalis 3.3* Athlon 64 3000 // ASUS K8V SE Deluxe // 1024MB PC3200 (2-2-2-10 1T) ATI All-In-Wonder 9700 Pro // 20" Dell 2005FPW (DVI) M-Audio Revo 7.1 + Philips Acoustic Edge // Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 320/16 Western Digital WD3200KS + 120/8 Seagate 7200.7 NEC ND-3550A 16x DVD±RW + Lite-On 52x24x CD-RW Antec Sonata case // 480W Antec TruePower personal bests \|\| Aq'3: 46796 \| 3D'01: 20461 \| 3D'03: 6336 \| 3D'05: 2677 \| PC'04: 4605 \| PC'02: 7691,9092,1250

Jan 4, 2003, 06:35 PM	#3
DallasStar Junior Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wave Existence Posts: 2,065 Rep Power: 0	nice pun!! __________________ "A picture of my existence... would show a useless wooden stake covered in snow... stuck loosely at a slant in the ground in a ploughed field on the edge of a vast open plain on a dark winter night." --- Franz Kafka

Jan 4, 2003, 07:40 PM	#4
RIV@NVX Freedom is a feature. Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Croatia, Rijeka Posts: 4,476 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Story is always the same... their software is uselles whole CD of unfunctional well-designed apps. My computer science teacher said: Why would they want to optimize apps - it doesn't bring money. New card and new design of apps brings (because it can be advertised). So, what would you expect? __________________ -- Vedran

Jan 8, 2003, 05:16 PM	#7
Numa HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Belgium Posts: 68 Rep Power: 0	[COLOR=darkred]MSI KT266APro2 (with Hyperion 4.45), Win98SE (Updated), 512Mo DDR, XP 1700+, GeForce3Ti500, DirectX9 and a very clean system.[/COLOR] Now that I've read that interesting post, I feel like dizzy. I always thought the NVidia detonators were the cause of my slow down and lock up system problems (see the NVidia drivers9x forum section). I have a Creative Audigy Player soundcard and I noticed it's impossible to get the 5.1 sound working properly. The speakers test fails whatever I try with the settings. Therefore I have to use the more common 4.1 configuration which disappoints me as I bought a set of 5.1 speakers (DTT2500) to be able to watch DVD's with a great sound. Moreover the Audigy drivers for win9x haven't been updated for a long time now. Could the Audigy drivers be the cause of my problems? I thought the Detonators were. I can't install newer versions than the NV28.32! Can anyone help me? __________________ My computer's too old Last edited by RIV@NVX; Jan 8, 2003 at 05:48 PM.

Jan 7, 2003, 06:00 AM	#5
mbh831 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 16 Rep Power: 0	Don't even get me started on creative....

Jan 7, 2003, 08:13 AM	#6
SmoothImmigrant DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 19 Rep Power: 0	lol, I know what you mean. I just got a Hercules Fortissmo III 7.1 card. Hopefully and knowingly, it will beat my sb live value hands down. I am getting sick of the crackling and such, anyways.