No sound or continuous beep w or w/o original sound on top on EMU APS

XDread

>>resetting the DSP should not affect the problem
ok, good

>>well, according to the logs, the buffers are mapped absolutely identically for bad/good playback
so was I thinking too...

>>I'll download winamp3 to test this issue
please do, but as said earlier it has nothing to do specifically with WA3. It's just a tool to (re-)aquire resources quickly.

>>anyway, the problem might be related to your hardware [PCI bus]
could be, but as stated earlier, I also had this problem on my old machine as well. (See my previous post for details on the old computer.)


I am really tired of this problem, and I would love to think that this is due to faulty hardware, but then why didn't I have this problem (way back in time) when I actually had no choice than to run W98? It's almost as I am tempted to see if I can find my old W98 CD to see if the problem really is not there... (It really was not back when I used w98, but something _might_ have happened at a later time...)

Rox271

XDread, U didn't say if U were using a digital connection of the standard analog output.

XDread

Sorry! Hehe. I didn't know that was a question!

I do not use digital connections.

I have used the headset plug in front, beeping there as well, but swapped to back because they are supposed to be better. (And they are!) Now I don't even have the front extention connected, I only use the plugs in the back.

Regarding digital connections, that is something I want to use, but i need a good dac for my mixer, and that costs money. Right now it seems I need a new soundcard more than a dac.

BUT:
The bug is digital, not analog, thus I would guess that the problem would still exist using a dac, and I am wondering if this is interesting at all?

What do I know?

Rox271

Ok. Then there is no reason to suspect a SPDIF issue.
I did indeed notice that when I had the beep, it used to be on both digital and analog outputs.

SkinJob

Dell Dimension 8100

Chipset: Intel (850 series, I think)
MOBO: Intel (not sure of model, I think it's customized for Dell)
CPU: P4 1.4GHz
RAM: 768MB RAMBUS 800MHz ECC
HD: 60GB Maxtor

I use a Live! Platinum with the original LiveDrive. I only use the analog connections.

----Hardware / Software configuration---------------
Driver Name:kX Audio Driver (Debug)
Driver Date: Apr 30 2003 02:33:10
Driver Version: 5.10.00.3532 - debug
DB Name:LiveBay0
CT4760 10k1 [ece0]
PCI Information:
Device: 21102 Subsys: 80401102 ChipRev: 7
Card has MPU device
Card HAS AC97 codec
Codec name: SigmaTel STAC9721/23
3D Extension: SigmaTel 3D Enhancement
Codec is 2.0 compliant
Capabilities[6940] :
DAC resolutions : -16-bit- -18-bit-
ADC resolutions : -16-bit- -18-bit-
Ext Capabilities [200]: -slot/DAC mappings-
Port: ece0 Irq: 10
Playback buffer: 20a0
Record buffer: 4000
Number of AC3 buffers: 4
Tank memory: 256 kb
OS version: [2 5 1 Service Pack 1; 2 5 1 Service Pack 1; 156 148]

Eugene Gavrilov

hmm
like a detective story

what hardware/software setting my influence this issue?..
could you please specify if you tweaked / overclocked anything in the BIOS
do you have any cooling/tweaking software running?
does this bug happen if you -close- all the applications?
does this bug happen after a clean install? [even before any video/chipset drivers are installed]?

btw, did anybody try to decrease (temporarely) the amount of memory? [down to 256 MB]
(well, I doubt this is the case... it runs perfectly here (1Gb), but who knows...]

/Eugene

XDread

>>what hardware/software setting my influence this issue?..
None (If I knew I wouldn't had this problem if there really exist a cure)

>>could you please specify if you tweaked / overclocked anything in the BIOS
Nope (Haven't)

>>do you have any cooling/tweaking software running?
No

>>does this bug happen if you -close- all the applications?
If there can be sound when no app is running, yes. Otherwise no.
There is never beep when a sound is not playing.
When there is beep, there is for all channels that are in use.

>>does this bug happen after a clean install? [even before any video/chipset drivers are installed]?
I have done that a couple of times. I regularly reinstall my system when it gets too messy. (IE installed and uninstalled a lot of programs etc.) Bug has allways been there on my W2k and on two DIFFERENT machines. (Important point in all this!)
I usually install the necessary things first, then upgrade as needed.


>>btw, did anybody try to decrease (temporarely) the amount of memory? [down to 256 MB]
No, I haven't done that yet. Perhaps try in a couple of days.

XDread

Info when searching the net:
"Built around Intel's brand-new 850 chipset [...] Nvidia GeForce Ultra [...]"

Intel Chipset and Nvidia graphics adapter (AGP4x).

Ref:
http://www.001abc.com/desktop/dell_dimension_8100.html

Zeebok

Hi,

I just thought I'd throw in a "me-too" post as I've had this problem for some time now. Everything described so far fits my problem, although I've never counted the number of clicks required to push Winamp back into a functioning mode.

At least for me, I've been able to find somewhat of a workable solution to the problem: say I'm playing Quake while listening to Winamp. Winamp switches tracks, and begins to beep, click, or just plays nothing. The problem appears to be contagious, as soon Quake loses it's sound, and begins displaying "dropping sound" messages. However, I usually can exit Quake or Winamp, whichever started the problem, to return to normal operation.

Just tonight I noticed that when I get clicking (or whatever the flavor is tonight), that it still gets treated with the reverb effect, if it is so enabled in the KX Mixer. Further, I'm able to start Sound Forge and actually record the distortion. Winamp still played through this distortion and you can hear parts of the real music coming through (sometimes Winamp will give up after a few seconds and stop outputting sound -- e.g. the spectrum analyzer will freeze).

Most spectacular is SimCity 4, where throughout gameplay the background music will erractically start and stop, typically at the same time sound effects both stop and start (like the effect from clicking the mouse, etc).

Dual AMD MP2100 RB
Tyan S2466N-4M
2GB RAM (512MB x 4)
20+80GB WDC IDE Disks via Promise Ultra100 TX2
Adaptec 29160
SB Live! 5.1 w/ LiveDrive -- "SB0060 5.1 [2480]" per KX Mixer
Intel PRO/1000 Gigabit Fiber Server Adapter
GeForce4 TI4600

XDread

When we talk about clicks we mean number of (re-)allocations of releasing/reaquire of sound resources. The number of clicks is probably not important since it may vary, only that when the problem appears, you have to click more than a couple of times. (I don't know if it allways is a 16 or 32 multiple or not though...)

The problem as I experience it is that EVERYTHING works as if it is playing sound. It IS even playing sound, but when the bug is apparent the sound is beep instead of what it should be.

Contagious or continuous?

And exiting won't necessarily solve our problem... (Does it fix yours EVERY time or most of the times?)

Whatever flavour? Hehe clicking is and has allways been clicks on stop/start/searchbar/etc on various programs to stop/produce sound thus also reaquire resources.

Reverb effect? Please tell more! (A little unclear what happens with your problem.)

Distortion? It is either sound, no sound or a continous beep while playing sound. (It has happened twice or something that the beep has layered it self on top of the sound playing, but that is several versions ago.)

Ah I suddenly discovered the audio file. Hehe. Lot of reverb there! Sounds like a stuck buffer like when a game doesn't feed the system with new sounds for a reason. Lots of lots of reverb. And there is actually a sound that is heard in the background. Heh. strange sounds, hard to hear what it is. It is definitly not the problem I experience. I think this is a bug in the game or something. (See below.)

Hmm... It does really not sound like the bug we are talking about in this thread, sorry. Here everything work fine except that you may get a beep or no sound instead of what you are supposed to hear.

But thanks anyway!

Suggestions regarding YOUR problem: (It sounds strange...)

Does the sound card sit firmly into the slot? Perhaps it is a little loose or not completely in all the way? (Might happen during several situations, moving the computer may be one.) Check all things that may be loose while you are at it.

Check for viruses?

Reinstall/update drivers and/or servicepacks? (Not only related to soundcard.) I have seen IR drivers doing strange things with sound...

New patches for Quake? Perhaps there is a bug there?

Perhaps WinAmp and Quake doesn't like each other? Does the problem appear when you are using other programs as well? What combinations pruduce the error?

eh.. sure there is more, but I can't come up with any!

XDread

Ah, regarding the test of removing 256K RAM, I suddenly remembered that I have all 512K in one chip...

Koolyo

>>Ah, regarding the test of removing 256K RAM, I suddenly remembered that I have all 512K in one chip...

256MB and 512MB RAM you mean

XDread

Hehe... Of course!

Eugene Gavrilov

so, any luck testing kX with less memory?

[at the moment I don't have any ideas... probably, I will need to make a closer look. probably, having someone's MSN/ICQ contact might be of use -- to perform some 'online' tests]

/Eugene

XDread

It's hard for me to test since all my 512MB RAM is all in one chip. I'll send my icq number as a pm.

Rox271

Just FYI, the beta driver v3533 is MUCH better but I still have the beeps from time to time.
Well I can survive with that...

XDread

You are sure this isn't just random behaviour? I experience that the problem may not appear for a whole day and then suddenly appear the next day straight after reboot and of course everything in between.

I have not experienced any difference between this version and the 6-8 versions before that.

XDread

It seems like my system disk is about to call it a day. It's making (not so...) funny noises and my system log shows a lot of badblock messages...

So now I have to save up some money for a new disk. I hope the disk lasts till I manage to do so...

So Eugene:
I have to reinstall my system once more, anything you want to test during that process?

Rox271

Oh oh. Looks like it is a bad day today. I get the beep ON and OFF every minutes.
Eugene, today it is raining outside; the moisture is about 95% relative humidity and the temp about 16°C (i.e. 61°F). The fridge, the vacuum cleaner and the washing machine are off. My neighbour is on vacation. I need to cut the grass in the garden (I wish I could, same noise as the sound card, but as I said it is raining).
Pleaaaaase find a solution!!!!!!
I beg you on my knees. Fix that damned bug!

XDread

Hehe... Thought so... Well, I have sort of given up on this problem log time ago...

But... You say the lawnmover creates the same sort of noise as the beep? Hmm... I'd love to hear it!

Eugene Gavrilov

>> it is raining outside; the moisture is about 95% relative humidity and the temp about 16°C (i.e. 61°F).
>> The fridge, the vacuum cleaner and the washing machine are off.

LOL

I have no ideas still... perhaps, we need to brain storm a little and elaborate at least some possible reasons to check them later

'clean install': a good idea. pls install and check kX prior -any- drivers / software [including video card drivers / motherboard drivers etc.... I know kX isn't perfect in 16-colors mode...]

/Eugene

Eugene Gavrilov

any news? has anybody tried clean install?

/E

XDread

Hehe. I am soooo lazy....

I have copied everything from the disk to another one, so I am ready to rip it out and reinstall. The disk is getting worse and worse and I lost control of the d: partition the other day. Surprisingly a chkdsk managed to repair the partition loosing only 5 files, but short after a complete run of chkdsk I get new badblocks, so it's a wonder my system starts at all.

Actually it's a wonder my system runs at all while the disk says "screetch- screetch- screetch- ka-tchung"...

Well, I plan to reinstall tomorrow.. (Or today actually, I just got to have a sleep first...)

But to be honest, I don't excpect the bug to go away like that, but at least we will have that option tested. The last days I haven't had that much problem with the bug, but it does happen from time to time, and when it does, it is hard to get rid of it... (That varies as everything else with this bug...)

It's annoying when I have to reboot to get rid of the problem.

But, I came to think of one thing, and that is possible reasons for this bug to happen:
The error sounds as if a very small buffer is played in a loop. The data played may be actual sound data, but they are for some reason not renewed or swapped.

I don't know where the error is, and how and where buffers are managed, but:
May the bug be that
1. The allocated buffer is not filled with new data for some reason?
2. In case of multibuffering, could there be that the swapping of buffers fail for some reason?
3. In case 1 or 2, is it software or hardware?
4. If it is software, is it in the driver or interaction between driver and audio hardware?
5. If it is hardware, then what can be done? (Toss the card out of the window? =D )
6. How can we research this problem?
7. Create a special version of the driver with even more debugging, will that give more info?

Last:
What can cause the problem to happen on some systems, but not on other systems. That is what is common between the systems that this bug happens?

That is my brainstorming for today, now is bed time.

Eugene Gavrilov

according to the previous 'spy.exe' screenshots, it seems that the card doesn't load the PCI mappings correctly (this is the first problem) the second problem is that 'loop' register is set to an incorrect value

the 'loop' register I speak about should be set automatically by hardware as soon as the buffer is played at least once

so, it seems that the sound engine/envelopes etc. are initialized correctly, but the mapping is incorrect
this causes the card to play the 'internal cache data' instead of actual data (appr. 8-32 samples)
that's why 'loop' register isn't updated

why is mapping initialized incorrectly?..
well, the driver should only load the mapping register with a 'free' memory page (that is, 'unused' data)
according to the screenshots this is done correctly
when the driver triggers the voice, the card should re-load the mapping register with the actual address [and this doesn't happen]
during playback, the hardware should increment the buffer position (btw, check that with spy.exe: the register number is 8) and after first loop should init the 'loop' register [this, again, doesn't happen]

spy.exe displays all the registers for each voice currently active
(sometimes it doesn't clear the screen, so you may find some extra data, too)

--- technical information for volunteers ---
register 6: loop start register (low part)
register 7: loop end register (low part)
register 8: current position (low part)
register a (10): cache loop register (the 'problematic' one)
register 0xc (12): mapping 1 (should be set to some 'strange' value such as 0x3dffff before the voice is toggled and to a value like '1000a' when the voice is playing back)
register 0xd (13): mapping 2 (---"---)

full register list is available here: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/v...010.h?rev=1.51

if you notice any difference among the other registers during 'correct' and 'beeping' playback - let me know

/Eugene

XDread

Ok, now I have a totally clean system. It's so clean that all I can get from my graphics adapter is 16 colors and a resolution of 800x600.

BUT:
Since the kX driver installation requires at least Direct X 8 and Service Pack 1 on Windows 2000, I'm a little lost! If I am going to install DX or SP, then I'm going to install the newest ones from both, not DX8 or SP1.

Now I am going to sleep, so I won't touch the system until later today, so I hope I have gotten an answer what to do before I pollute the clean system. Now is your chance to ask me to do things before anything else!

(Well, I had to install the network drivers, but that's the only thing I have installed!)

XDread

Haha! This is SOOO funny!

Well, I tried to install the 3533b+fix driver. Nah, It wouldn't work!
See: http://www.hardwareheaven.com/showthre...threadid=17304

Then I installed the 3528 driver. Weee! Intro sound! Then no sound at all.... After a TON of clicks I heard a short beep a couple of times and then the sound came back!
(NB: short beeps because of short sounds! )

In other words:
Clean install - same problem...

But at least now we have had it tested!

XDread

Ah... The bug has been quite nice to me lately. Only happened a feq times in a couple of weeks, but today it has been worse than ever...

I'm running the 3528 build and even if it may be a coincident, there might be a slight possibility that the later releases (like the 3532 I think) which I ran before reinstalling the system is more stable regarding this bug as the current version I am running now.

The reason I am running 3528 is that 3533b installs, but fails after reboot. Also, as I have stated earlier is that I know for a fackt that this bug does behave different on different driver versions.

(like 3518 where the bug happens about 50% of the times I play something new...)

That is a clue, by the way! How come the bug behaves differently on different driver builds?

XDread

Ah. I got 3532 to work! Hope that one is more stable.

Eugene Gavrilov

[3533 installation issues]:

pls test 3533 release with monitor running
--
start the monitor
start the setup application
proceed until you are asked to reboot
say 'no'
run 'msconfig' --> startup/autorun tab
uncheck 'kxmixer --startup'
reboot
run monitor
run 'kxmixer --startup' from the command line

paste both logs (if the problem is still there, of course)

/E

XDread

Haha. But this time it worked! I don't know how many times I tried earlier today, but now I'm running 3533b just fine!

The beep on the other hand, is too early to say anything about this time.