kx dsp routing ignored on AC97

djboo · May 13, 2003, 12:06 AM

after months of messing around with my system trying to get it to behave as expecting, ive discovered something quite annoying...

the latest drivers (kx) and some not so latest dont use the ac97 properly... no matter what u do, even remove every single connection in the DSP routing - the ac97 is pumped directly to speakers and thats it, no asio support, no recording, nothing...

ive testest this true on 3 different pc's , xp and win2k, with 3 different cards (all different variants)

if i step back to old drivers (3519 is where i am now) its perfectly fine. ive not rebooted so im still using new mixer, so the problem doesnt lie there. I no longer have an issue, but obviously id much rather use new drivers.

P.S. im not the only one with this issue, ive read of a similar problem a few months ago (on this forum i think) and ive got other people on the net to test my theories for me, and its a driver thing without a doubt...

Hope this helps u dig up an issue, and i cant wait till its fixed!

**Eugene Gavrilov** · May 13, 2003, 09:31 AM

mute your analog inputs on the ac97 page
they =should= be muted in the normal operation
(unless you are in 'doo' mode)

if this fails,
post your 'about...' information here
with a more detailed description of the bug
[what inputs; what software; ... ...]

/Eugene

djboo · May 13, 2003, 10:14 AM

mute/volume control in the mixer behaves as u expect...
but shouldnt ac97 behave like aux2 ? as in if u remove the connections for it in DSP, then it no longer functions? because i have 3 synths, and i intend to use them with asio in, aux in for my juno, line in 2 for the astation, and the yamaha would go in linein(ac97) - however, no matter what i do routing wise, the ac97 will not do anything apart from amp to speakers...unless i mute it, but even muted its of no use...

the other inputs i just disconnect from everything and rout them to the asio inputs and it works brill, and i can do the same with the older drivers for ac97, but newer drivers just seem to ignore me. i havent had chance to try this on an audigy tho, but all sblives ive tried with (right from my first release platinum, throo a value and a 5.1) the issue is clear. the easiest way to test the issue is connect a sound source to line in, make sure volume is up, and CLEAR the dsp - so theres no reason anything should be making noise... the older drivers shut up, the newer ones carry on playing the sound.

djboo · May 13, 2003, 07:39 PM

quick rund down of my systems

windows xp pro (legal/not running any reset patches etc)
p4 1.7ghz
512meg ddr
sblive platinum CT4760

Windows 2000 server
dual p3 700mhz
1024meg SDram
sblive value

ive tried mixing and matching hardware/software to resolve issues to no avail. ihavent found anyone with the latest drivers who DOESNT have this issue.

it happens on ANY ac97 input

**Eugene Gavrilov** · May 13, 2003, 11:12 PM

there are two things to be taken into consideration:

1. ac97 codec is connected to the DSP and to the front outputs -simultaneously-
kX driver usually mutes ac97 direct connection to the front outputs ['Master Mute'] and passes the signal via the DSP
if you have 'line-in' and 'mic-in' disabled on the 'ac97 page', it should pass via the DSP only [provided you select them]
in order to get to the DSP, the signal should be 'recorded' by the ac97 codec
that's why it is necessary to select 'ac97 source'

if the card is in 'digital output only mode', the front outputs are muted automatically
so, it becomes possible to record ac97 inputs by unmuting them on the 'ac97' page

pls review this topic in our help file [note the 'signal flow' diagram]

--- Audigy/Audigy2 stuff ---
it is even more complex

the output of the ac97 codec is connected to a separate ADC, UDA Philips
that is available in kX Mixer window as 'ac97 in 2' (since 3533b)
this codec is much better compared to ac97 codec
so, it is recommended to use it for audio recording
however, you cannot turn off monitoring, because otherwise you'll have only silence
[this feature isn't fully supported at the moment]

2. if you unload the epilog, the internal logic of the chip (Emu 10k1/10k2) automatically copies all the inputs to all the outputs

so, make sure you -zero- unused outputs in the DSP

---
anyway, what exactly do you wish to do?

/Eugene

djboo · May 14, 2003, 09:33 AM

What i want to do is simple,

(astation)->aux2->asio 0+1
(mks50)->line in 2->asio 2+3
(sony eq)->line in (ac97)->asio 4+5

rear out->sony eq
front out->mixer (and therefor amp)

thats my basic requirement...
i also like to map some input outputs to the dsp effects so i can use them a little like vst's with aux machines, but thats not important.

if got a dolby 5.1 decoder if that makes it easier. other than what ive mentioned, i need nothing else at all. i dont want to monitor the inputs. I'm a little confused by this talk of muting the line in and mix in. as ive tried to explain, ive actually got everything working - with an older driver... because i route the ac97 to an asio input and nowhere else, even tho it is unmuted and turned up, it still gets fed to the music app with no monitoring, as is the same with linein2 and aux2 - they have to be turned up to work - but raising their volume only affects their volume into the music app, no actual monitoring...

so if i understand right, as soon as i mute the line in, it wont get fed to the music app? if it DOES - the logic escapes me - i always get thrown off by the ac97 - i sort of understand it better now (i imagine all the ac97 inputs are like external sources, all going to a single mixer, and the ac97 is just the input to that mixer) but muting the very inputs i need seems to make no sense...

ps...
"2. if you unload the epilog, the internal logic of the chip (Emu 10k1/10k2) automatically copies all the inputs to all the outputs"

this doesnt seem to happen with either line in 2 or aux2 (the livedrive inputs)

**Eugene Gavrilov** · May 14, 2003, 05:57 PM

kX DSP:
connect all the desired inputs to the desired asio channels

kX Mixer:
on the 'ac97' page click 'reset ac97'
then select 'ac97 source' = 'line-in'
do NOT enable line-in [leave it muted]
on the 'ins and outs' page enable 'ac97' and set it to desired level
on the 'rec' page enable 'ac97' and set it to desired level

/Eugene

p.s.
>> 2:

this still happens
but you simply don't have particular outputs to hear the 'copied' sound
if you use native 'epilog', they should be ok (that is, muted)

May 13, 2003, 12:06 AM	#1
djboo DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0	kx dsp routing ignored on AC97 after months of messing around with my system trying to get it to behave as expecting, ive discovered something quite annoying... the latest drivers (kx) and some not so latest dont use the ac97 properly... no matter what u do, even remove every single connection in the DSP routing - the ac97 is pumped directly to speakers and thats it, no asio support, no recording, nothing... ive testest this true on 3 different pc's , xp and win2k, with 3 different cards (all different variants) if i step back to old drivers (3519 is where i am now) its perfectly fine. ive not rebooted so im still using new mixer, so the problem doesnt lie there. I no longer have an issue, but obviously id much rather use new drivers. P.S. im not the only one with this issue, ive read of a similar problem a few months ago (on this forum i think) and ive got other people on the net to test my theories for me, and its a driver thing without a doubt... Hope this helps u dig up an issue, and i cant wait till its fixed!

May 13, 2003, 09:31 AM	#2
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,119 Rep Power: 75	mute your analog inputs on the ac97 page they =should= be muted in the normal operation (unless you are in 'doo' mode) if this fails, post your 'about...' information here with a more detailed description of the bug [what inputs; what software; ... ...] /Eugene

May 13, 2003, 10:14 AM	Thread Starter #3
djboo DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0	mute/volume control in the mixer behaves as u expect... but shouldnt ac97 behave like aux2 ? as in if u remove the connections for it in DSP, then it no longer functions? because i have 3 synths, and i intend to use them with asio in, aux in for my juno, line in 2 for the astation, and the yamaha would go in linein(ac97) - however, no matter what i do routing wise, the ac97 will not do anything apart from amp to speakers...unless i mute it, but even muted its of no use... the other inputs i just disconnect from everything and rout them to the asio inputs and it works brill, and i can do the same with the older drivers for ac97, but newer drivers just seem to ignore me. i havent had chance to try this on an audigy tho, but all sblives ive tried with (right from my first release platinum, throo a value and a 5.1) the issue is clear. the easiest way to test the issue is connect a sound source to line in, make sure volume is up, and CLEAR the dsp - so theres no reason anything should be making noise... the older drivers shut up, the newer ones carry on playing the sound.

May 13, 2003, 07:39 PM	Thread Starter #4
djboo DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0	quick rund down of my systems windows xp pro (legal/not running any reset patches etc) p4 1.7ghz 512meg ddr sblive platinum CT4760 Windows 2000 server dual p3 700mhz 1024meg SDram sblive value ive tried mixing and matching hardware/software to resolve issues to no avail. ihavent found anyone with the latest drivers who DOESNT have this issue. it happens on ANY ac97 input

May 13, 2003, 11:12 PM	#5
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,119 Rep Power: 75	there are two things to be taken into consideration: 1. ac97 codec is connected to the DSP and to the front outputs -simultaneously- kX driver usually mutes ac97 direct connection to the front outputs ['Master Mute'] and passes the signal via the DSP if you have 'line-in' and 'mic-in' disabled on the 'ac97 page', it should pass via the DSP only [provided you select them] in order to get to the DSP, the signal should be 'recorded' by the ac97 codec that's why it is necessary to select 'ac97 source' if the card is in 'digital output only mode', the front outputs are muted automatically so, it becomes possible to record ac97 inputs by unmuting them on the 'ac97' page pls review this topic in our help file [note the 'signal flow' diagram] --- Audigy/Audigy2 stuff --- it is even more complex the output of the ac97 codec is connected to a separate ADC, UDA Philips that is available in kX Mixer window as 'ac97 in 2' (since 3533b) this codec is much better compared to ac97 codec so, it is recommended to use it for audio recording however, you cannot turn off monitoring, because otherwise you'll have only silence [this feature isn't fully supported at the moment] 2. if you unload the epilog, the internal logic of the chip (Emu 10k1/10k2) automatically copies all the inputs to all the outputs so, make sure you -zero- unused outputs in the DSP --- anyway, what exactly do you wish to do? /Eugene

May 14, 2003, 09:33 AM	Thread Starter #6
djboo DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0	What i want to do is simple, (astation)->aux2->asio 0+1 (mks50)->line in 2->asio 2+3 (sony eq)->line in (ac97)->asio 4+5 rear out->sony eq front out->mixer (and therefor amp) thats my basic requirement... i also like to map some input outputs to the dsp effects so i can use them a little like vst's with aux machines, but thats not important. if got a dolby 5.1 decoder if that makes it easier. other than what ive mentioned, i need nothing else at all. i dont want to monitor the inputs. I'm a little confused by this talk of muting the line in and mix in. as ive tried to explain, ive actually got everything working - with an older driver... because i route the ac97 to an asio input and nowhere else, even tho it is unmuted and turned up, it still gets fed to the music app with no monitoring, as is the same with linein2 and aux2 - they have to be turned up to work - but raising their volume only affects their volume into the music app, no actual monitoring... so if i understand right, as soon as i mute the line in, it wont get fed to the music app? if it DOES - the logic escapes me - i always get thrown off by the ac97 - i sort of understand it better now (i imagine all the ac97 inputs are like external sources, all going to a single mixer, and the ac97 is just the input to that mixer) but muting the very inputs i need seems to make no sense... ps... "2. if you unload the epilog, the internal logic of the chip (Emu 10k1/10k2) automatically copies all the inputs to all the outputs" this doesnt seem to happen with either line in 2 or aux2 (the livedrive inputs)

May 14, 2003, 05:57 PM	#7
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,119 Rep Power: 75	kX DSP: connect all the desired inputs to the desired asio channels kX Mixer: on the 'ac97' page click 'reset ac97' then select 'ac97 source' = 'line-in' do NOT enable line-in [leave it muted] on the 'ins and outs' page enable 'ac97' and set it to desired level on the 'rec' page enable 'ac97' and set it to desired level /Eugene p.s. >> 2: this still happens but you simply don't have particular outputs to hear the 'copied' sound if you use native 'epilog', they should be ok (that is, muted)