3533b: double soundfont input with Cubasis 4

starless72 · Jun 21, 2003, 10:49 AM

Hi, when using kX 3533b I have a problem when playing soundfonts via Cubasis 4.0, on WindowsXP Pro.
I properly set up a MIDI track, and play the soundfont using an external MIDI keyboard; what happens is that the soundfont sounds like any key is hit twice: I can hear a chorus effect due to the same sound being played twice simultaneously.
And, indeed, if I record a MIDI part, each note is recorded twice!

I tried doing the same using the n-Track demo, and it worked fine, no doubled notes.

Anyway, kX and Cubasis worked great, as far as I recall, up to kX 3531.
So, which change in 3533b might have caused this?

BTW, I also tried unistalling 3533b, installing 3528, and Cubasis worked fine. I then uninstalled 3528 and installed 3533b again, and the problem was there again.

Kind regards.

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Jun 23, 2003, 01:07 AM

make sure you don't use "kX Control" device

/E

starless72 · Jun 23, 2003, 11:24 AM

Hi Eugene.
Sure, I'm using the "kX Synth CT4670 10k1 [a000]" device, I can't go wrong because it is the only one producing any sound from SoundFonts in Cubasis.

Any clue? Thanks.

starless72 · Jun 25, 2003, 04:00 PM

Hi again Eugene,
I did other tests, uninstalling and installing from scratch the various kX versions.

I can confirm that 3531 is not affected by the problem I reported, and I discovered that the problem actually appeared in 3532 (which I didn't try before).
So, both 3532 and 3533b are affected by the problem, while previous versions are not.

I hope this helps you tracking down the cause.

Thanks.

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Jun 26, 2003, 03:23 PM

open kxmixer's 'analyzer' page and check the number of voices allocated for each note
(make sure you are using simple soundfont instruments consisting of one sample)

it seems that the reason is still related to kX Control device
make sure you've configured the software (Cubasis) correctly
select appropriate midi mode (omni, one-channel, local echo etc...)

run any MIDI-aware application (such as Sonar/Cakewalk/Cubase/...) and repeat the test
try to perform the test with kx mixer unloaded

/E

starless72 · Jun 26, 2003, 04:54 PM

Hi Eugene.
Just for the record, I did another test in the meantime: starting from 3531 (working fine), I did an update install of 3533b, and the problem appeared. Having read strange stories

about sfman32.dll, I tried replacing the 3533b one with the ones from 3531 and 3528 (rebooting each time, of course), but the problem remained.

I have now downloaded and installed the available demo versions of Sonar (2.2) and Cubase SX (1.02), and the problem still happens with these two programs.
The only app which does not seem to be affected by the problem is currently n-Track (http://www.ntrack.com/ , I've got demo version 3.1.9 installed).

While using the apps affected by the problem, with a single sound soundfont, the kX analyzer shows TWO blue bars each time I press a key. While using n-Track, instead, it only shows one.
The apps are correctly configured, also because - as I wrote - Cubasis works fine with the same identical settings and soundfonts with kX 3528-3531.

Some strange (but maybe unrelated) things I noticed during the tests:

When Cubasis is loaded, the kX analyzer shows 2 red (wave) bars and 2 green (asio) bars.
When n-Track or CubaseSX are loaded, instead, it only shows 2 red bars.
Finally, when Sonar is loaded, no colored bars are shown.

And, when recording the "doubled" MIDI notes in Sonar, the first note of each pair is assigned a zero duration value. With Cubasis and CubaseSX, instead, both notes in each pair are assigned the full duration.

Please tell me if you need me to do some more tests.
Thanks a lot.

starless72 · Jun 26, 2003, 08:10 PM

Ops, I forgot to say that I also tried closing the kX mixer tray icon, as you suggested, but nothing changed.

Anyway, I just realized how wrong I was with my original subject: it's not a problem with soundfonts, it's a general problem with doubled MIDI input! Me stupid. I didn't think about it because I almost always use MIDI to play soundfonts, sorry.

I now tried without loading any soundfonts, just opening Cubasis and recording some note events via the external MIDI keyboard, choosing the Microsoft Synth as MIDI output and even deactivating MIDI thru (so I didn't hear anything at all while recording), and the result was again a bunch of doubled note events.

Having reached this point, I now wonder: how can it be that nobody else is experiencing the same problem? Am I the only one? If so, what can I have on my system, which might be causing this problem only with kX 3532+?

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Jun 27, 2003, 01:17 AM

post your hardware config ("About...")

yes, it seems your MIDI keyboard or the driver double the notes...

/E

starless72 · Jun 27, 2003, 12:07 PM

Here it is. Sound card is a SBLive Value. MIDI keyboard is a Korg M1, its MIDI OUT connected straight to SBLive's MIDI IN (standard MIDI cable on joystick port), no other MIDI ports are used on the M1.

----Hardware / Software configuration---------------
Driver Name:kX Audio Driver (Debug)
Driver Date: May 28 2003 00:28:30
Driver Version: 5.10.00.3533 - debug
DB Name:none
CT4670 10k1 [a000]
PCI Information:
Device: 21102 Subsys: 201102 ChipRev: 5
Card has MPU device
Card HAS AC97 codec
Codec name: TriTech TR A5/CT1297 TAT
3D Extension: No 3D Stereo Enhancement
Codec is 1.0 compliant
Capabilities[0] :
DAC resolutions : -16-bit-
ADC resolutions : -16-bit-
Ext Capabilities [0]:
Port: a000 Irq: 12
Playback buffer: 20a0
Record buffer: 4000
Number of AC3 buffers: 4
Tank memory: 256 kb
GSIF buffer: 512 samples
OS version: [2 5 1 Service Pack 1; 2 5 1 Service Pack 1; 156 148]
----------------------------------------------------

starless72 · Jul 1, 2003, 04:01 PM

Sorry, sorry, sorry! I hope you can forgive me.
When you told me to check I was not using the kX Control device, I looked everywhere in Cubasis, and the only place where I could have been using it was in the MIDI track output settings, and I was surely not using it in there (Synth output was used).

BUT... I just remembered that Cubasis has a separate program, called "Setup MME", to be used to set up input and output devices. It is accessible from the Start menu, but I always launch Cubasis from a desktop link, so...

And I think I really never needed to use it.
So, I deactivated the kX Control device in there, leaving only kX Uart active, and now everything is ok.

I hope you understand, everything was ok with the same config and all previous kX versions, I really didn't imagine...
What's more, when trying Cubase SX and Sonar, being new to their GUIs I just tweaked the controls until I could hear my soundfont playing, I was not thinking about kX Control anymore at that point.
n-Track, instead, had only ONE input selected by default, which happened to be the wrong one (kX Control), but it was enough to make it work fine.

So, now this just reverts to a question out of curiosity: what change did you introduce in v3532+, that causes both inputs to be active by default? ...or maybe kX Control was just not available as a MIDI input?

Thanks for your support, and enjoy this easily fixed bug report.

Jun 21, 2003, 10:49 AM	#1
starless72 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 31 Rep Power: 0	3533b: double soundfont input with Cubasis 4 Hi, when using kX 3533b I have a problem when playing soundfonts via Cubasis 4.0, on WindowsXP Pro. I properly set up a MIDI track, and play the soundfont using an external MIDI keyboard; what happens is that the soundfont sounds like any key is hit twice: I can hear a chorus effect due to the same sound being played twice simultaneously. And, indeed, if I record a MIDI part, each note is recorded twice! I tried doing the same using the n-Track demo, and it worked fine, no doubled notes. Anyway, kX and Cubasis worked great, as far as I recall, up to kX 3531. So, which change in 3533b might have caused this? BTW, I also tried unistalling 3533b, installing 3528, and Cubasis worked fine. I then uninstalled 3528 and installed 3533b again, and the problem was there again. Kind regards.

Jun 25, 2003, 04:00 PM	Thread Starter #4
starless72 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 31 Rep Power: 0	The problem starts with version 3532 Hi again Eugene, I did other tests, uninstalling and installing from scratch the various kX versions. I can confirm that 3531 is not affected by the problem I reported, and I discovered that the problem actually appeared in 3532 (which I didn't try before). So, both 3532 and 3533b are affected by the problem, while previous versions are not. I hope this helps you tracking down the cause. Thanks.

Jun 26, 2003, 08:10 PM	Thread Starter #7
starless72 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 31 Rep Power: 0	It's not related to soundfonts, actually Ops, I forgot to say that I also tried closing the kX mixer tray icon, as you suggested, but nothing changed. Anyway, I just realized how wrong I was with my original subject: it's not a problem with soundfonts, it's a general problem with doubled MIDI input! Me stupid. I didn't think about it because I almost always use MIDI to play soundfonts, sorry. I now tried without loading any soundfonts, just opening Cubasis and recording some note events via the external MIDI keyboard, choosing the Microsoft Synth as MIDI output and even deactivating MIDI thru (so I didn't hear anything at all while recording), and the result was again a bunch of doubled note events. Having reached this point, I now wonder: how can it be that nobody else is experiencing the same problem? Am I the only one? If so, what can I have on my system, which might be causing this problem only with kX 3532+?

Jul 1, 2003, 04:01 PM	Thread Starter #10
starless72 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 31 Rep Power: 0	FIXED, MY FAULT! Sorry, sorry, sorry! I hope you can forgive me. When you told me to check I was not using the kX Control device, I looked everywhere in Cubasis, and the only place where I could have been using it was in the MIDI track output settings, and I was surely not using it in there (Synth output was used). BUT... I just remembered that Cubasis has a separate program, called "Setup MME", to be used to set up input and output devices. It is accessible from the Start menu, but I always launch Cubasis from a desktop link, so... And I think I really never needed to use it. So, I deactivated the kX Control device in there, leaving only kX Uart active, and now everything is ok. I hope you understand, everything was ok with the same config and all previous kX versions, I really didn't imagine... What's more, when trying Cubase SX and Sonar, being new to their GUIs I just tweaked the controls until I could hear my soundfont playing, I was not thinking about kX Control anymore at that point. n-Track, instead, had only ONE input selected by default, which happened to be the wrong one (kX Control), but it was enough to make it work fine. So, now this just reverts to a question out of curiosity: what change did you introduce in v3532+, that causes both inputs to be active by default? ...or maybe kX Control was just not available as a MIDI input? Thanks for your support, and enjoy this easily fixed bug report.

Jun 23, 2003, 01:07 AM	#2
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,119 Rep Power: 75	make sure you don't use "kX Control" device /E

Jun 23, 2003, 11:24 AM	Thread Starter #3
starless72 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 31 Rep Power: 0	Hi Eugene. Sure, I'm using the "kX Synth CT4670 10k1 [a000]" device, I can't go wrong because it is the only one producing any sound from SoundFonts in Cubasis. Any clue? Thanks.

Jun 26, 2003, 03:23 PM	#5
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,119 Rep Power: 75	open kxmixer's 'analyzer' page and check the number of voices allocated for each note (make sure you are using simple soundfont instruments consisting of one sample) it seems that the reason is still related to kX Control device make sure you've configured the software (Cubasis) correctly select appropriate midi mode (omni, one-channel, local echo etc...) run any MIDI-aware application (such as Sonar/Cakewalk/Cubase/...) and repeat the test try to perform the test with kx mixer unloaded /E

Jun 26, 2003, 04:54 PM	Thread Starter #6
starless72 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 31 Rep Power: 0	Hi Eugene. Just for the record, I did another test in the meantime: starting from 3531 (working fine), I did an update install of 3533b, and the problem appeared. Having read strange stories about sfman32.dll, I tried replacing the 3533b one with the ones from 3531 and 3528 (rebooting each time, of course), but the problem remained. I have now downloaded and installed the available demo versions of Sonar (2.2) and Cubase SX (1.02), and the problem still happens with these two programs. The only app which does not seem to be affected by the problem is currently n-Track (http://www.ntrack.com/ , I've got demo version 3.1.9 installed). While using the apps affected by the problem, with a single sound soundfont, the kX analyzer shows TWO blue bars each time I press a key. While using n-Track, instead, it only shows one. The apps are correctly configured, also because - as I wrote - Cubasis works fine with the same identical settings and soundfonts with kX 3528-3531. Some strange (but maybe unrelated) things I noticed during the tests: When Cubasis is loaded, the kX analyzer shows 2 red (wave) bars and 2 green (asio) bars. When n-Track or CubaseSX are loaded, instead, it only shows 2 red bars. Finally, when Sonar is loaded, no colored bars are shown. And, when recording the "doubled" MIDI notes in Sonar, the first note of each pair is assigned a zero duration value. With Cubasis and CubaseSX, instead, both notes in each pair are assigned the full duration. Please tell me if you need me to do some more tests. Thanks a lot.

Jun 27, 2003, 01:17 AM	#8
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,119 Rep Power: 75	post your hardware config ("About...") yes, it seems your MIDI keyboard or the driver double the notes... /E

Jun 27, 2003, 12:07 PM	Thread Starter #9
starless72 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 31 Rep Power: 0	Here it is. Sound card is a SBLive Value. MIDI keyboard is a Korg M1, its MIDI OUT connected straight to SBLive's MIDI IN (standard MIDI cable on joystick port), no other MIDI ports are used on the M1. ----Hardware / Software configuration--------------- Driver Name:kX Audio Driver (Debug) Driver Date: May 28 2003 00:28:30 Driver Version: 5.10.00.3533 - debug DB Name:none CT4670 10k1 [a000] PCI Information: Device: 21102 Subsys: 201102 ChipRev: 5 Card has MPU device Card HAS AC97 codec Codec name: TriTech TR A5/CT1297 TAT 3D Extension: No 3D Stereo Enhancement Codec is 1.0 compliant Capabilities[0] : DAC resolutions : -16-bit- ADC resolutions : -16-bit- Ext Capabilities [0]: Port: a000 Irq: 12 Playback buffer: 20a0 Record buffer: 4000 Number of AC3 buffers: 4 Tank memory: 256 kb GSIF buffer: 512 samples OS version: [2 5 1 Service Pack 1; 2 5 1 Service Pack 1; 156 148] ----------------------------------------------------