kX MIDI Velocity and Panning volumes not right!

Genomi · Sep 3, 2009, 03:19 AM

Hi, I've been using kX drivers on my SB Live! 5.1 for a while since maybe version 3537. I work with music and MIDI and I've noticed some problems with the way the MIDI hardware synth works on kX versus other drivers and soft synths. The first problem is the Volume and/or Velocity "curve" is a bit different. In Creative drivers and soft synths (Microsoft GS Synth, S-YXG50, etc), the loudness goes down much more (sooner?) as Volume/Velocity goes down. This makes things like echo tracks and quiet tracks play too loudly in kX drivers. The second problem is panning. Some reason panning a MIDI track to one side makes it much louder than if centered. It's very noticable and makes panned tracks play much louder than intended, if not louder than the rest of the song. Usually stuff like quiet blips and beeps will be panned, but in kX it's loud blips and beeps

. This doesn't happen on other drivers or synths. My current driver version is 3541, I'm on Windows XP. These problems aren't soundfont-specific; it happens on any of them. I doubt it has been fixed in later driver versions, but let me know if it is.

Genomi · Oct 7, 2009, 02:58 AM

BUMP, no replies and it's been over a month. Is noone noticing these things?

Right, so me and a friend (mostly the friend) work on a soundfont project to get the old FM synth sound you used to get in computers and gaming consoles from like 10+ years ago. It pushes the limits of soundfont by using small simple looped waveforms, things like volume, modulation, and filter envelopes, and in the end transforms the simple waveforms into the harsh clangy things you'd hear in old sound chips. Our soundcards might need cooling fans when we're through with it

(just kidding). It's turned out pretty good, but we've found more kX MIDI bugs as we go:

Other than the problems in the first post, the modulation LFO1 and LFO2 speeds work differently in kX than Creative's as well. The default modulation speed of 8.176 in Vienna Soundfont Editor sounds like a chipmunk (too fast) in Kx, while in Creative it sounds normal. I realize 8 modulations per second WOULD be "chipmunk" speed realistically, but to Creative and other synths' standards, which a LOT (probably 97% or more as a guess) of MIDI songs are based on, 8.176 is actually more like 6 or so, almost like it's divided a bit afterwards; kX has it wrong and too fast in comparison. I'll see if I can get this friend to post here about it and any other MIDI or similar problems experienced with kX.

Lex Nahumury · Oct 7, 2009, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genomi

BUMP, no replies and it's been over a month. Is noone noticing these things?

It has been noticed and discussed as well throughout the years here on our forum.
Plus, no one hardly uses the hardware SF stuff anymore these days.
(softsynts VST etc.)

Anyway, Yes, kX SF implementation differs from CL's!
Main reason; kX follows the original SF specs, CL not.

nocouch · Oct 9, 2009, 04:18 AM

geno's right about the modulation bug(s)... it's not apples to apples comparing the creative driver to KX, and while i like KX it just seems the modulations are different, resulting in a grainier sound as the modulations are 'slower' so to speak than on creative. I am the one he speaks of who made the soundfont and unfortunately i find it difficult to keep compatability at times, there isnt a happy medium i can set my modulations at to where it will sound good on both drivers. Oh and much thanks to hearing you KX guys fixed the 3-4gb ram bug for 64 bit. Now i can use midi on windows 7, i hope.
... If it helps, it's almost like there is a set amount that the soundfont variables such as modulations, for volume AND speed / filters etc whatever all that stuff is in the bottom of vienna basically .... and that set amount i said about is multiplied against the values for again said parameters in the presets/instrument modulations in soundfont. if this number is off it could be doing this... it seems to be a global thing which is the only thing my mind could think to cause it. some may like the grainey sound i however find it tough when it breaks instruments. the loud-when-panned bug is a real showstopper also. THERE ARE ALOT OF PEOPLE ON SOUNDFONT BTW, go on youtube it's all over.

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Oct 16, 2009, 12:33 AM

sorry, guys, currently I don't see any ways of fixing soundfonts in kX...
due to lack of time and difficulties with feedback from users...
(unless there are really skilled C++ programmers with good ears and good knowledge of the SoundFont specification)

E.

Sep 3, 2009, 03:19 AM	#1
Genomi DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2 Rep Power: 0	kX MIDI Velocity and Panning volumes not right! Hi, I've been using kX drivers on my SB Live! 5.1 for a while since maybe version 3537. I work with music and MIDI and I've noticed some problems with the way the MIDI hardware synth works on kX versus other drivers and soft synths. The first problem is the Volume and/or Velocity "curve" is a bit different. In Creative drivers and soft synths (Microsoft GS Synth, S-YXG50, etc), the loudness goes down much more (sooner?) as Volume/Velocity goes down. This makes things like echo tracks and quiet tracks play too loudly in kX drivers. The second problem is panning. Some reason panning a MIDI track to one side makes it much louder than if centered. It's very noticable and makes panned tracks play much louder than intended, if not louder than the rest of the song. Usually stuff like quiet blips and beeps will be panned, but in kX it's loud blips and beeps . This doesn't happen on other drivers or synths. My current driver version is 3541, I'm on Windows XP. These problems aren't soundfont-specific; it happens on any of them. I doubt it has been fixed in later driver versions, but let me know if it is. Last edited by Genomi; Sep 3, 2009 at 03:48 AM.

Oct 7, 2009, 02:58 AM	Thread Starter #2
Genomi DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2 Rep Power: 0	Re: kX MIDI Velocity and Panning volumes not right! BUMP, no replies and it's been over a month. Is noone noticing these things? Right, so me and a friend (mostly the friend) work on a soundfont project to get the old FM synth sound you used to get in computers and gaming consoles from like 10+ years ago. It pushes the limits of soundfont by using small simple looped waveforms, things like volume, modulation, and filter envelopes, and in the end transforms the simple waveforms into the harsh clangy things you'd hear in old sound chips. Our soundcards might need cooling fans when we're through with it (just kidding). It's turned out pretty good, but we've found more kX MIDI bugs as we go: Other than the problems in the first post, the modulation LFO1 and LFO2 speeds work differently in kX than Creative's as well. The default modulation speed of 8.176 in Vienna Soundfont Editor sounds like a chipmunk (too fast) in Kx, while in Creative it sounds normal. I realize 8 modulations per second WOULD be "chipmunk" speed realistically, but to Creative and other synths' standards, which a LOT (probably 97% or more as a guess) of MIDI songs are based on, 8.176 is actually more like 6 or so, almost like it's divided a bit afterwards; kX has it wrong and too fast in comparison. I'll see if I can get this friend to post here about it and any other MIDI or similar problems experienced with kX.

Oct 9, 2009, 04:18 AM	#4
nocouch HardwareHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 7 Rep Power: 0	Re: kX MIDI Velocity and Panning volumes not right! geno's right about the modulation bug(s)... it's not apples to apples comparing the creative driver to KX, and while i like KX it just seems the modulations are different, resulting in a grainier sound as the modulations are 'slower' so to speak than on creative. I am the one he speaks of who made the soundfont and unfortunately i find it difficult to keep compatability at times, there isnt a happy medium i can set my modulations at to where it will sound good on both drivers. Oh and much thanks to hearing you KX guys fixed the 3-4gb ram bug for 64 bit. Now i can use midi on windows 7, i hope. ... If it helps, it's almost like there is a set amount that the soundfont variables such as modulations, for volume AND speed / filters etc whatever all that stuff is in the bottom of vienna basically .... and that set amount i said about is multiplied against the values for again said parameters in the presets/instrument modulations in soundfont. if this number is off it could be doing this... it seems to be a global thing which is the only thing my mind could think to cause it. some may like the grainey sound i however find it tough when it breaks instruments. the loud-when-panned bug is a real showstopper also. THERE ARE ALOT OF PEOPLE ON SOUNDFONT BTW, go on youtube it's all over.

Oct 16, 2009, 12:33 AM	#5
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,106 Rep Power: 73	Îòâåò: kX MIDI Velocity and Panning volumes not right! sorry, guys, currently I don't see any ways of fixing soundfonts in kX... due to lack of time and difficulties with feedback from users... (unless there are really skilled C++ programmers with good ears and good knowledge of the SoundFont specification) E.