BUG: KX Project startup with Native Instruments B4 in ASIO - crash

obxwindsurf · Dec 12, 2003, 06:57 PM

I am running Win XP SP2 with a SoundBlaster Live 5.1 and KX Project build 3535

I am using the Native Instruments B4 Digital Organ V1.1.1 application and using ASIO for low latency and real-time performance.

When I use the "soundcard" driver setting in B4 (non-ASIO), I never experience any problems, however the "soundcard" driver is not a low latency driver and its useable play-ahead of 40 milliseconds is not sufficient for live performance.

When I use ASIO at any latency (through the KX ASIO Control Panel), and start B4 I get the Win XP dialog (maybe 6 out of 10 times) "B4 has encountered and problem and must shut down..." with the option to send the error to Microsoft or not.

What I was able to determine at some point was that B4 was unable to get KX to create an ASIO buffer.

If you are persistent enough at continuing to retry starting the application eventually it starts but it may take 6-8 tries to get it to go.

Native Instruments B4 is commonly paired with KX Project so there should be a good user base out there who may have reported similar problems.

Kevin

Daniel Drummond · Dec 12, 2003, 10:29 PM

The problem is probably not related to KX drivers, as I also use B4, same version as yours, and it has never crashed like that on me, even when I used it with a sblive. Try stoping audio, re-selecting asio, enabling audio again. Or re-installing B4. The versions prior to this also worked fine. Also, check if you have sound hardware acceleration set to full in multimedia properties.

obxwindsurf · Dec 13, 2003, 04:17 AM

Dan,

I've been through all of this. I've actually uninstalled/reinstalled B4 3 times now in a very methodical order, including reboots between installs. Hardware acceleration is full, sample rate is best as the KX manual indicates.

This is not a predictable problem, it's intermittent at best. Sometimes B4 starts, sometimes it doesn't.

However I'm very new to ASIO and the KX package has a LOT OF STUFF TO CONTROL.

I may have some of these things mis-set, especially on the "ins & outs" screens. I have not even touched any of the routing as I don't want to render the thing inoperable. I am an engineer (EE) however and once I understand what all this stuff does I'd be in a better position to troubleshoot.

Due to it's intermittent nature though I've been willing to just try restarting B4 until it comes up and runs.

Kevin

vikflash · Dec 17, 2003, 06:09 AM

Hi

I experience same kind of probs when I use B4 as standalone

but everything is OK when you use it as vst host

I thought that cubase manages asio lot better than windows

but I'm not sure it's the reason

So launch cubase and then B4 as vst intrument. It works perfect

obxwindsurf · Dec 17, 2003, 03:43 PM

Thanks for the input, but I'm using it standalone and don't own cubase. I'm using it in live performance not in an offline sequencing operation.

Glad to hear that someone else has reproduced the problem, but I'm looking to either Native Instruments (where I've made a bug report), or to the KX project (where I've also posted a bug report with details directly) to fix it. I don't think buying another piece of software to workaround is the solution but I do appreciate your sharing your workaround.

If I'm persistent enough or reboot the system, I can get it to run.

Perhaps KX Project's authors have some insight.

Kevin

vikflash · Dec 18, 2003, 05:13 AM

Hi Kevin

I use b4 and other vst instruments live too !

On stage i got 2 synths and my computer.
One is independant - ensoniq vfx - If computer crashes
And the other midi plugged to the computer

The best solution for me to manage my different sounds is to make a new project in cubase with tracks routed to hardwares synths, software synths, gigasampler, reason or anything else.
You can also setup different tracks with various B4 presets. or open multiple instances of the B4

When you are on stage you open cubase or your midi sequencer with this project and that's it, one keyboard touch, arrow key, instantly changes track and instantly changes sound according to your setup.

SO YOU CAN MAKE 100 TRACKS WITH EACH ONE a different B4 preset (just insert a patch change in the edit list of each track) so you can access each one just by highlighting the track on yor keyboards

May be you should consider to try this because it gives more flexibility for fx, automations and even real time mastering your sound.

I heard there is a free light version of cubase that can manage asio and vst instruments.
Cubasis may be. I'm not sure.

I tried B4 standalone but never been really satisfied.

Hope it helps
vikflash

obxwindsurf · Dec 18, 2003, 01:47 PM

Hi,

Thanks for the configuration info. I have Cakewalk Home Studio 2002 and I think I played around with an analog soft-synth when I first installed it quite some time ago. I didn't have a decent sound card or ASIO low-latency driver so it was unusable for live performance, but the concept was neat.

Not sure if Cakewalk HS2002 will support this but I'll look for the freeware light version you speak of. Perhaps that will be better. As I said - if I'm persistent enough when this happens I can eventually get it to run and when it does, I have no problems with sound or latency (2.33 milliseconds). The sound card is awesome (SoundBlaster Live! 5.1) and the driver and control suite is equally so.

Thanks again,
Kevin

Dec 12, 2003, 06:57 PM	#1
obxwindsurf DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: MI, USA Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	BUG: KX Project startup with Native Instruments B4 in ASIO - crash I am running Win XP SP2 with a SoundBlaster Live 5.1 and KX Project build 3535 I am using the Native Instruments B4 Digital Organ V1.1.1 application and using ASIO for low latency and real-time performance. When I use the "soundcard" driver setting in B4 (non-ASIO), I never experience any problems, however the "soundcard" driver is not a low latency driver and its useable play-ahead of 40 milliseconds is not sufficient for live performance. When I use ASIO at any latency (through the KX ASIO Control Panel), and start B4 I get the Win XP dialog (maybe 6 out of 10 times) "B4 has encountered and problem and must shut down..." with the option to send the error to Microsoft or not. What I was able to determine at some point was that B4 was unable to get KX to create an ASIO buffer. If you are persistent enough at continuing to retry starting the application eventually it starts but it may take 6-8 tries to get it to go. Native Instruments B4 is commonly paired with KX Project so there should be a good user base out there who may have reported similar problems. Kevin

Dec 12, 2003, 10:29 PM	#2
Daniel Drummond DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 1,137 Rep Power: 0	The problem is probably not related to KX drivers, as I also use B4, same version as yours, and it has never crashed like that on me, even when I used it with a sblive. Try stoping audio, re-selecting asio, enabling audio again. Or re-installing B4. The versions prior to this also worked fine. Also, check if you have sound hardware acceleration set to full in multimedia properties. __________________ www.palcomp3.com.br/ed

Dec 13, 2003, 04:17 AM	#3
obxwindsurf DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: MI, USA Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	Dan, thanks but I tried all this already Dan, I've been through all of this. I've actually uninstalled/reinstalled B4 3 times now in a very methodical order, including reboots between installs. Hardware acceleration is full, sample rate is best as the KX manual indicates. This is not a predictable problem, it's intermittent at best. Sometimes B4 starts, sometimes it doesn't. However I'm very new to ASIO and the KX package has a LOT OF STUFF TO CONTROL. I may have some of these things mis-set, especially on the "ins & outs" screens. I have not even touched any of the routing as I don't want to render the thing inoperable. I am an engineer (EE) however and once I understand what all this stuff does I'd be in a better position to troubleshoot. Due to it's intermittent nature though I've been willing to just try restarting B4 until it comes up and runs. Kevin

Dec 17, 2003, 03:43 PM	#5
obxwindsurf DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: MI, USA Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	It's a nice concept... but... Thanks for the input, but I'm using it standalone and don't own cubase. I'm using it in live performance not in an offline sequencing operation. Glad to hear that someone else has reproduced the problem, but I'm looking to either Native Instruments (where I've made a bug report), or to the KX project (where I've also posted a bug report with details directly) to fix it. I don't think buying another piece of software to workaround is the solution but I do appreciate your sharing your workaround. If I'm persistent enough or reboot the system, I can get it to run. Perhaps KX Project's authors have some insight. Kevin

Dec 18, 2003, 01:47 PM	#7
obxwindsurf DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: MI, USA Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	I'll look for the freeware version and give it a try Hi, Thanks for the configuration info. I have Cakewalk Home Studio 2002 and I think I played around with an analog soft-synth when I first installed it quite some time ago. I didn't have a decent sound card or ASIO low-latency driver so it was unusable for live performance, but the concept was neat. Not sure if Cakewalk HS2002 will support this but I'll look for the freeware light version you speak of. Perhaps that will be better. As I said - if I'm persistent enough when this happens I can eventually get it to run and when it does, I have no problems with sound or latency (2.33 milliseconds). The sound card is awesome (SoundBlaster Live! 5.1) and the driver and control suite is equally so. Thanks again, Kevin

Dec 17, 2003, 06:09 AM	#4
vikflash HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 144 Rep Power: 0	Hi I experience same kind of probs when I use B4 as standalone but everything is OK when you use it as vst host I thought that cubase manages asio lot better than windows but I'm not sure it's the reason So launch cubase and then B4 as vst intrument. It works perfect

Dec 18, 2003, 05:13 AM	#6
vikflash HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 144 Rep Power: 0	Hi Kevin I use b4 and other vst instruments live too ! On stage i got 2 synths and my computer. One is independant - ensoniq vfx - If computer crashes And the other midi plugged to the computer The best solution for me to manage my different sounds is to make a new project in cubase with tracks routed to hardwares synths, software synths, gigasampler, reason or anything else. You can also setup different tracks with various B4 presets. or open multiple instances of the B4 When you are on stage you open cubase or your midi sequencer with this project and that's it, one keyboard touch, arrow key, instantly changes track and instantly changes sound according to your setup. SO YOU CAN MAKE 100 TRACKS WITH EACH ONE a different B4 preset (just insert a patch change in the edit list of each track) so you can access each one just by highlighting the track on yor keyboards May be you should consider to try this because it gives more flexibility for fx, automations and even real time mastering your sound. I heard there is a free light version of cubase that can manage asio and vst instruments. Cubasis may be. I'm not sure. I tried B4 standalone but never been really satisfied. Hope it helps vikflash