Bitcoin is it worth getting into it?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by Cow_160483, Nov 11, 2017.

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  1. Cow_160483

    Cow_160483 HH's only cow moooooo...

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    Hi guys a friend of mine wants to get this Antminer s9 to mine bitcoin, is it worth getting into it at this stage ? What àre the hidden costs besides getting the equipment, power costs etc.. I am clue less on how it works and the chances of making a profit... does anyone have some info?
     
  2. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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    For me it is something that is going to blow up sooner or later.
    But I am an old school type of guy.
     
  3. Tipstaff

    Tipstaff Well-Known Member

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    I pay for my electricity, so I don't do mining at home.

    At work however... :D
     
  4. Cow_160483

    Cow_160483 HH's only cow moooooo...

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    Lol that sounds like a plan :D
     
  5. Tipstaff

    Tipstaff Well-Known Member

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    Anyways, imo, it's not worth it for an individual anymore. This is going be highly debated, I can just see someone coming in and saying the opposite, but the reasons are so many that it's hard to go into detail. It's just a damn complicated issue at the moment.

    For you to make anything back you have to weigh in the cost of mining. First is power, second is hardware. At best you are looking at a year before you start making money back.. that is if you are paying a reasonable amount for your electricity (here in Toronto our rates fluctuate with high points, mid points and low points throughout the day, and it changes during the year.. for instance right now we pay the most for our electricity between 7AM & 11AM, and 5PM & 7PM). If notyou don't pay for it, then that's a bonus (at one place of work electricity is part of the rent, at the other, someone else's problem). Second is that, as you are seeing, good hardware costs money, so again, best case, you're looking at a year to see any return.

    The second thing ties into what I just mentioned: you are going to be going up against big farms that have a ton of computing power, or Hashrate. The only way to compete against them is by joining a mining pool such as Slush (the original mining group). That means dealing with transaction fees, but mining coins is faster in a pool. Or rather, you'll get your take faster than if you did it on your own. Again though, it'll still take you about a year, at best, to break even.

    Plus there are other cryptocurrency out there too, like Ethereum, and a new Bitcoin Gold. Of course, with BTG, a miner like the Antminer is useless. BTG is designed to block ASIC miners, instead preferring GPU miners. The team being BTG believes that Bitcoin has become too centralized, and this is their attempt to bring it back to it's roots, where everyone can benefit from mining, not just the large farms, or the guys that have expensive dedicated mining equipment.

    There are other reasons, to which you can easily Google, but those are the ones I think might dissuade you buddy. Honestly, if your buddy wants to get into Bitcoin: buy & sell, or trade. It's way quicker.As with anything though, it's a risk.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  6. Cow_160483

    Cow_160483 HH's only cow moooooo...

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    Thanks Tipstaff that's a lot of information..I will let him know, but for him the electricity costs are low so he may want to get it.. another question I have is whether it's worth getting the s9 miner or rather get a bunch of graphics cards and set up a rig?
     
  7. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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    OK, I don't get it. Can someone please explain to me what exactly is bitcoin mining? All I get is that it is computational power used to analyze usage of bitcoins used for transactions. Which makes zero sense to me as it is like saying this thing is worth something because it is used to calculate itself. I just don't get it.
     
  8. IvanV

    IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member

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    Essentially, mining is solving a maths problem and each time a new solution is found, a new bitcoin is created. The number of solutions is infinite, but the amount of work needed to find a new solution is growing exponentially. That guarantees that inflation is limited and, because of that, it is possible to assign a value to a bitcoin (because nobody, no bank, no central body... can just create a bunch of them out of thin air).
     
  9. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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    So who is providing the actual value to the solution to the math problem?
     
  10. IvanV

    IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member

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    People who are willing to trade other currencies, goods and services for bitcoin. It's not that different from other modern currencies, unlike the way they used to be in the days when a pound was literally worth and exchangeable for a pound of silver or when a dollar banknote was essentially a gold certificate.
     
  11. Cow_160483

    Cow_160483 HH's only cow moooooo...

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    What graphics card is good for mining ? and how many would he need ?
     
  12. Cow_160483

    Cow_160483 HH's only cow moooooo...

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    is it more efficient to build a rig than get the S9 miner ?
     
  13. IvanV

    IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member

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    I hear that Radeon 580 (and 570) have good performance and optimal bang for buck among the GPUs. I'm not sure how many would you need to match a particular specialized miner, but there are websites with useful info: https://www.cryptocompare.com https://whattomine.com/coins

    The thing that you need to consider as well is that the income diminishes over time, because the problem increases in complexity. So you may make a calculation taking into account the initial investment into equipment, the cost of operating the rig and the income it would bring, and it can all look fine (you'll be making money, it'll pay for the hardware in x months and from then on, you'll be making profit), only for the income to decrease after 6 months to the point that you're just paying for electricity and your best course of action is tu dump the graphics cards for half the original price (because if that happens, there will be a ton of people dumping the same GPUs as well).
     
  14. IvanV

    IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member

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  15. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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    ok I am out, I still don't get it. Good luck.
     
  16. IvanV

    IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member

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    It's worth something because enough people want it to be worth something. It's as simple as that. If, at some point, enough people decide it to be worthless, it will be worthless.

    And that is not at all impossible. Most people who are getting into it are not at all interested in using it as a currency, but as a way to make money. If (when) the growth slows down, those people will want to free their money and liquidate their bitcoins and that may well send the price of bitcoin on a downward spiral, similarly to a stock market bubble.

    But the speculations about the value aside, how is bitcoin fundamentally different from a "normal" currency? With a "normal" currency, you have a country making it, fair enough, but what does that country guarantee to anyone holding a certain amount currency? Not much. The value of any currency today is not in any way guaranteed, except in the few countries where governments still control prices of (at least some) goods and services.
     
  17. Trusteft

    Trusteft HH's Asteroids' Dominator

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    Thank you for answering my question.
    As for the rest...I am sorry, but I am not 15 any more to make such thoughts that the money (dollar, pound, etc) are the same as bitcoin. Good for anyone who makes bitcoins, but I see it almost like a pyramid scheme and I have zero doubt that sooner or later it will collapse.
    Anyway, as I said, time for me to get out of this thread as it clearly isn't for me. :)
     
  18. Tipstaff

    Tipstaff Well-Known Member

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    Nicely put, IvanV.
     
  19. Tipstaff

    Tipstaff Well-Known Member

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    Hey, Cow_160483, if your buddy wants to get into trading coins, tell him to look up a guy called Quickfingers Luc. The guy has a bunch of videos on how to get into trading coins, what to look for, how to read the charts, and so on. The guy is known for trading penny stocks.. makes money doing it too, and he applies that to cryptocurrency, buying and selling all the various coins on the market. And that's all he does... full time.
     
  20. Cow_160483

    Cow_160483 HH's only cow moooooo...

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    thanks guys :D
     

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