Full sound from LFE when using Wave1/0

Marbles_00 · Jul 27, 2006, 11:40 AM

Hi everyone. I'm a newbie with the kx world, so I'm learning as I go. I picked up a SB0400 and have it working pretty decently for my purpose. I'm setting up a multizoning audio server, using xlobby, winamp and the kx drivers. I have three zones using 4/5, 6/7, and 8/9. What I would like to do is be able to run sync music to all zones by using wave0/1. It works except that the LFE channel is now utilizing the crossover and it is well...running as an LFE.

Could someone steer me in the right direction as to how to bypass the LFE crossover when using wave0/1....or if it is even possible to do? Or is there some other way, that I haven't thought about....being a newbie and all.

I was also hoping to use the side speakers of the 7.1 output for an additional zone, but after reading some other post...I guess that is not possible. But if I can get the above working, I'll be more than happy.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Russ · Jul 27, 2006, 05:41 PM

I would probably use a custom DSP to do what you want (without xrouting, surrounder, etc).

i.e. (something similair to the following):
-------------------
FxBus 0/1 --> Stereo Mix (1) --> 10 Band EQ (1) --> Analog Front (epilog/kxlt)
FxBus 4/5 --> Stereo Mix (1)

FxBus 0/1 --> Stereo Mix (2) --> 10 Band EQ (2) --> Analog Rear (epilog/kxlt)
FxBus 6/7 --> Stereo Mix (2)

FxBus 0/1 --> Stereo Mix (3) --> 10 Band EQ (3) --> Analog Center/LFE (epilog/kxlt)
FxBus 8/9 --> Stereo Mix (3)
-------------------

That is a very basic setup, but should do what you want, and of course it could be further customized to add additional sources or effects, etc.

Russ · Jul 27, 2006, 07:12 PM

BTW: Do not forget that you have the ASIO inputs as well. This means that you could use kX Wave 0/1 (i.e. with the side channels) for another zone, and using an audio client that supports ASIO, still be able run sync music to all zones (using ASIO), etc.

Marbles_00 · Jul 27, 2006, 08:16 PM

Many thanks for your help Russ, I had a feeling that I would have to bypass/rid the surrounder and the sort. Since I haven't had much exposure to the KX DSP, you have given me some ideas to start with.

Also thanks for the idea of using ASIO. I will have to see if Winamp supports it.

Russ · Jul 27, 2006, 08:35 PM

Glad to help

I really do not use WinAMP myself, so I am not sure about it's capabilites, but are am pretty sure that there is a plugin available for ASIO output.

Marbles_00 · Jul 28, 2006, 06:49 AM

Russ, I started with your indicated setup, but I'm not getting any audio out. I place a peak meter after the FXBus...all channels were working. After the Mixer...all channels are working. After the eq, again all the channels are working as they should, yet, I'm not getting anything past the epilog on Wave6/7, Wave8/9 or if I connect speakers to those same outputs when running Wave0/1. Only Wave4/5 seems to work. Any suggestions?

jiiteepee · Jul 28, 2006, 08:09 AM

Is this same w/ original ASIO drivers:

Quote:

Asio Outputs

At 16-bit 48KHz, the ASIO driver supports up to 14 simultaneous, sample-synchronous, low-latency ASIO audio outputs, which, as you may have noticed, is more than the number of physical outputs. This is because the ASIO driver can access a number of internal points (virtual inputs and outputs) within the Sound Blaster Audigy 2 hardware environment, as well as the physical inputs and outputs. One function of these virtual outputs is to allow several different signal sources to be routed and/or mixed via Sound Blaster Audigy 2’s internal effects.

Physically, the Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Platinum eX Card has the following outputs which are all located at the rear of the card:

Analog

• Front left and right (rear of the card);

• Real left and right (rear of the card);

• Front Centre, Rear Centre and LFE (sub) (rear of the card);

Digital

• S/PDIF out - Optical and Coaxial (front and rear of the Creative Audigy 2 eX Drive respectively)

ASIO can route to all of these physical outputs directly, as long as the host software supports this facility.

The ASIO outputs are identified as follows:

• Asio outputs 1 and 2 (Wave/MP3) go via the stereo upmix path, internal to the Sound Blaster Audigy 2 card. Depending on the speaker mode and the CMSS (Creative Multi-Speaker Surround) settings, they may also be output to the rear and centre speaker physical outputs. For example, if CMSS is active and the card is set to 6.1mode, the audio is processed to make it sound more natural and some of the signal is routed to the centre speaker. Furthermore, EAX CONTROL may be used to add effects to the "WAV/MP3" path, in which case whatever effects are assigned there will affect the signals being output;

• ASIO outputs 3 and 4 (front left/right) feed the left and right output sockets at the rear of the Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Platinum eX card directly. These are the outputs that would be used for most desktop recording work, where the desired final product is mostly a conventional stereo mix;

• ASIO outputs 5 and 6 (rear left/right) feed the left and right surround outputs on the rear of the Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Platinum eX card directly (when the card is set to 4/5 or 6.1 speaker mode), although these can simply be utilised as an additional stereo pair by software that can access them. They don’t have to be used for surround purposes

• ASIO outputs 7 and 8 (centre/LFE) feed the centre and subwoofer outputs on the rear of the Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Platinum eX card directly (when the card is set to 5.1 speaker mode), although these too can simply be utilised as an additional stereo pair by software that can access them and also don’t have to be used for surround purposes;

• ASIO outputs 9 and 10 (rear centre) feed the Rear centre output on the rear of the Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Platinum eX card directly (when the card is set to 5/6.1 speaker mode), although this too can simply be utilised as an additional mono output by software that can access it and also doesn’t have to be used for surround purposes. As Asio outputs are seen as pairs the single mono output which is part of the Centre/Sub/Rear Center triple jack output must be addressed as a stereo pair. Simply pan hard Left when mixing. You will need to arm yourself with a three pole minijack to 3 RCA mono outs cable to make best use of this output.

• ASIO outputs 11 and 12 (FX Slot 1/2) allow you to send a specific channel from your VST mixer directly to one of the Audigy 2’s EAX hardware effects. 4 effects can be added to the EAX Control panel, and this buss accesses the first two as mono sends. Use your track’s Effects Send Destinations to select “FX Slot 1/2 Left” for Effect 1 (Reverb) and “FX Slot 1/2 Right” for Effect 2 (Chorus). Set the send level in Pre Fader mode to allow you to control the send level independent of the channel’s dry volume. Then use the EAX Control panel to select the required Reverb preset, tweak as desired and then configure the Effect levels under the “Source” tab, with Source set to “WAVE/MP3”. You can then create a new track in Cubasis VST CE with the input set to Post EQ which will allow you to monitor the return signal from the Effect and also record it to that track. This new “wet” effected track can be played back alongside your original dry track.

• ASIO outputs 13 and 14 (FX Slot 3/4) use the same principle as with Slot 1/2 except that the effects in Slots 3 and 4 are user selectable. A step by step guide of how to use these busses is given below.

Note that when you select “SB Audigy Asio 24/96” for 24 bit 96 Recording, you will only have access to the 4 Asio pairs which correspond to the analog ouputs on the rear of the card. This, however, is perfect for 6.1 output.

jiitee

jiiteepee · Jul 28, 2006, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbles_00

Russ, I started with your indicated setup, but I'm not getting any audio out. I place a peak meter after the FXBus...all channels were working. After the Mixer...all channels are working. After the eq, again all the channels are working as they should, yet, I'm not getting anything past the epilog on Wave6/7, Wave8/9 or if I connect speakers to those same outputs when running Wave0/1. Only Wave4/5 seems to work. Any suggestions?

Which driver mode are you using there?

DirectSound has maybe only two stereo outputs and MME one (least this is the situation w/ Audigy 2, which is a 6.1 card). ASIO and WDM lists all outputs --> i.e. 8 in your case but, as the quote on my prev. post states, the ASIO 0/1 pair goes via the stereo upmix path, internal to the Sound Blaster card.
Maybe this is the case w/ WDM too?

jiitee

EDIT:
Channels w/ different driver modes (Audigy 2 (SB0244))

ASIO - http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/9614/niasioxd7.jpg
Asio4All (= WDM/KS) - http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/985/niasio4allgd2.jpg
DirectSound - http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/4808/nidshd9.jpg
MME - http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/6972/nimmeeg9.jpg

jiitee

Marbles_00 · Jul 28, 2006, 02:27 PM

I started with Winamps DirectSound Output, but figured that might have been the problem, so I ended up switching to Winamp's WaveOut output, but to no success. I haven't been able to find an ASIO.dll for Winamp yet. The site that a few Winamp posts have indicated to download an ASIO.dll is no longer in use.

The basic setup for that card works for Wave4/5, 6/7, 8/9, where I can get full audio from the LFE channel, only when switching to Wave0/1, do I lose it. Funny thing is that I'm using the kx drivers (don't recall the version number) with a SB0222 and it can do it with a slight modification to the surrounder...but I wanted to keep that card for a future HTPC setup. I tried a similar setup with the SB0400, but I can't seem to drop the crossover effect like I can with the SB0222.

I have to admit though, I'm having fun, and learning tons, playing around with the DSP.

jiiteepee · Jul 28, 2006, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbles_00

I started with Winamps DirectSound Output, but figured that might have been the problem, so I ended up switching to Winamp's WaveOut output, but to no success. I haven't been able to find an ASIO.dll for Winamp yet. The site that a few Winamp posts have indicated to download an ASIO.dll is no longer in use.

The basic setup for that card works for Wave4/5, 6/7, 8/9, where I can get full audio from the LFE channel, only when switching to Wave0/1, do I lose it. Funny thing is that I'm using the kx drivers (don't recall the version number) with a SB0222 and it can do it with a slight modification to the surrounder...but I wanted to keep that card for a future HTPC setup. I tried a similar setup with the SB0400, but I can't seem to drop the crossover effect like I can with the SB0222.

I have to admit though, I'm having fun, and learning tons, playing around with the DSP.

Asio for Winamp - http://otachan.com/
WDM/KS for Winamp - http://www.stevemonks.com/ksplugin/

Actually, doesn't it look like w/ original ASIO you should use pairs 3&4, 5&6, 7&8 and 9&10 to get four independent stereo outputs. Could this be same w/ kX?

jiitee

Russ · Jul 28, 2006, 07:11 PM

@jiitee, kX is a lot different, so much of that info does not apply to kX.

@Marbles_00,
With some previous versions of kX, I believe that you had to use digital outputs to get analog sound with the sb0400. I am not sure about newer versions of kX (and you are not sure which kX version you are using anyway), but try connecting to the digital outputs on epilog and see if that works.

BTW: Make sure that both volume sliders are up on all the Stereo Mix plugins. Also, please indicate which speakers are working/not working (instead of the FxBus numbers) to help clarify what is happening. A screenshot of your DSP would be helpful as well, so we can be sure of the connections, etc.

jiiteepee · Jul 28, 2006, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

@jiitee, kX is a lot different, so much of that info does not apply to kX.

...

Yes, I know that, but I undestoodd that the upmixing (ASIO channels 1/2 for original drivers) is made internally (i.e. HW wise, not driver)? Are kX ASIO drivers capable for to get this rounded?

jiitee

Russ · Jul 28, 2006, 07:43 PM

I am not completley sure how it is with the Creative driver, but with kX, the ASIO path in the DSP is completely configurable, so with a custom DSP, it is basically however you decide to connect it. Also, the 0/1 4/5 6/7 8/9 pairs mentioned above, refer to kX Wave Devices.

Marbles_00 · Jul 28, 2006, 09:12 PM

Actually Russ, for the SB0400 card, I'm using the latest 3538j drivers as they were the ones that could 'see' the card (otherwise I got a BSOD after installing the drivers). The SB0222 card is the one that I'm not too sure about the drivers on that computer, as I downloaded them over 6 months ago...been working....don't touch what is working.

Now I recall that in the SB0222 DSP that the center/sub was also going to the digital outs as well. Would this also effect the surrounds outputs?

Yes, when it wasn't working when I first connected it, I figured that I may have to tweak the settings, and made sure that the mixer gains were turned up all the way.

I'll connect the digital outs, try it out, if it doesn't work then I will forward the DSP for all to laugh....hmm...I mean, for all to analyze. In the meantime, I know that the front L and R are connected to 4/5, rear L/R are connected to 6/7 and the center/sub are connected to 8/9.

Thanks again for all your help guys (and patients).

Marbles_00 · Jul 29, 2006, 05:13 AM

SUCCESS!!!

I ended up having to connect the FXbus6/7 to SPDIF L/R (2/3) on the epilog and connected the lfe/center (fxbus8/9) to digital sub/digital center. I also had to check off to flip the front/rear in the main mixer. Everything is working.

Now I have to add in some more inputs (CD, AUX, LINE In, etc.) and try and get the side surrounds (since the card is a 7.1) to work as an independent zone.

Thanks one more time for all your help guys.

Russ · Jul 29, 2006, 06:01 AM

I am glad that you figured it out.

For the 4th zone, I guess it would be just a matter of figuring out which pins on epilog are for the side channels, and connect those to FxBus 0/1 (and use kX Wave 0/1 for that zone).

Adding more sources should not be difficult, it is just a matter of which output(s) you want them to be connected to, and using a different mixer plugin(s) (with more inputs) to mix the various signals together. The inputs for external devices (Line In, etc) will be on the prolog plugin (or you can use ProFX (ProFX : Src and ProFX : ADC)).

Maddogg6 · Jul 29, 2006, 08:18 AM

For my card (3538J - sb0350) The 4th outputs (side channels) are called 'I2S 2 - OUT30/31' - on epilog - but I dont think KXlt has them... so you have to use epilog to have access to the 4th set of analog outputs.

Marbles_00 · Jul 30, 2006, 04:40 AM

Maddogg, thanks for the tip. Now I just have to make myself up some cables to plug into those connectors, and I'm hopefully all set.

Jul 27, 2006, 11:40 AM	#1
Marbles_00 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 9 Rep Power: 0	Full sound from LFE when using Wave1/0 Hi everyone. I'm a newbie with the kx world, so I'm learning as I go. I picked up a SB0400 and have it working pretty decently for my purpose. I'm setting up a multizoning audio server, using xlobby, winamp and the kx drivers. I have three zones using 4/5, 6/7, and 8/9. What I would like to do is be able to run sync music to all zones by using wave0/1. It works except that the LFE channel is now utilizing the crossover and it is well...running as an LFE. Could someone steer me in the right direction as to how to bypass the LFE crossover when using wave0/1....or if it is even possible to do? Or is there some other way, that I haven't thought about....being a newbie and all. I was also hoping to use the side speakers of the 7.1 output for an additional zone, but after reading some other post...I guess that is not possible. But if I can get the above working, I'll be more than happy. Thanks in advance for your help.

Jul 28, 2006, 06:49 AM	Thread Starter #6
Marbles_00 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 9 Rep Power: 0	Russ, I started with your indicated setup, but I'm not getting any audio out. I place a peak meter after the FXBus...all channels were working. After the Mixer...all channels are working. After the eq, again all the channels are working as they should, yet, I'm not getting anything past the epilog on Wave6/7, Wave8/9 or if I connect speakers to those same outputs when running Wave0/1. Only Wave4/5 seems to work. Any suggestions? Last edited by Marbles_00; Jul 28, 2006 at 06:56 AM.

Jul 28, 2006, 07:11 PM	#11
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,561 Rep Power: 62	@jiitee, kX is a lot different, so much of that info does not apply to kX. @Marbles_00, With some previous versions of kX, I believe that you had to use digital outputs to get analog sound with the sb0400. I am not sure about newer versions of kX (and you are not sure which kX version you are using anyway), but try connecting to the digital outputs on epilog and see if that works. BTW: Make sure that both volume sliders are up on all the Stereo Mix plugins. Also, please indicate which speakers are working/not working (instead of the FxBus numbers) to help clarify what is happening. A screenshot of your DSP would be helpful as well, so we can be sure of the connections, etc. Last edited by Russ; Jul 28, 2006 at 07:38 PM.

Jul 28, 2006, 07:43 PM	#13
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,561 Rep Power: 62	I am not completley sure how it is with the Creative driver, but with kX, the ASIO path in the DSP is completely configurable, so with a custom DSP, it is basically however you decide to connect it. Also, the 0/1 4/5 6/7 8/9 pairs mentioned above, refer to kX Wave Devices. Last edited by Russ; Jul 28, 2006 at 07:51 PM. Reason: typo

Jul 27, 2006, 05:41 PM	#2
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,561 Rep Power: 62	I would probably use a custom DSP to do what you want (without xrouting, surrounder, etc). i.e. (something similair to the following): ------------------- FxBus 0/1 --> Stereo Mix (1) --> 10 Band EQ (1) --> Analog Front (epilog/kxlt) FxBus 4/5 --> Stereo Mix (1) FxBus 0/1 --> Stereo Mix (2) --> 10 Band EQ (2) --> Analog Rear (epilog/kxlt) FxBus 6/7 --> Stereo Mix (2) FxBus 0/1 --> Stereo Mix (3) --> 10 Band EQ (3) --> Analog Center/LFE (epilog/kxlt) FxBus 8/9 --> Stereo Mix (3) ------------------- That is a very basic setup, but should do what you want, and of course it could be further customized to add additional sources or effects, etc.

Jul 27, 2006, 07:12 PM	#3
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,561 Rep Power: 62	BTW: Do not forget that you have the ASIO inputs as well. This means that you could use kX Wave 0/1 (i.e. with the side channels) for another zone, and using an audio client that supports ASIO, still be able run sync music to all zones (using ASIO), etc.

Jul 27, 2006, 08:16 PM	Thread Starter #4
Marbles_00 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 9 Rep Power: 0	Many thanks for your help Russ, I had a feeling that I would have to bypass/rid the surrounder and the sort. Since I haven't had much exposure to the KX DSP, you have given me some ideas to start with. Also thanks for the idea of using ASIO. I will have to see if Winamp supports it.

Jul 27, 2006, 08:35 PM	#5
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,561 Rep Power: 62	Glad to help I really do not use WinAMP myself, so I am not sure about it's capabilites, but are am pretty sure that there is a plugin available for ASIO output.

Jul 28, 2006, 02:27 PM	Thread Starter #9
Marbles_00 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 9 Rep Power: 0	I started with Winamps DirectSound Output, but figured that might have been the problem, so I ended up switching to Winamp's WaveOut output, but to no success. I haven't been able to find an ASIO.dll for Winamp yet. The site that a few Winamp posts have indicated to download an ASIO.dll is no longer in use. The basic setup for that card works for Wave4/5, 6/7, 8/9, where I can get full audio from the LFE channel, only when switching to Wave0/1, do I lose it. Funny thing is that I'm using the kx drivers (don't recall the version number) with a SB0222 and it can do it with a slight modification to the surrounder...but I wanted to keep that card for a future HTPC setup. I tried a similar setup with the SB0400, but I can't seem to drop the crossover effect like I can with the SB0222. I have to admit though, I'm having fun, and learning tons, playing around with the DSP.

Jul 28, 2006, 09:12 PM	Thread Starter #14
Marbles_00 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 9 Rep Power: 0	Actually Russ, for the SB0400 card, I'm using the latest 3538j drivers as they were the ones that could 'see' the card (otherwise I got a BSOD after installing the drivers). The SB0222 card is the one that I'm not too sure about the drivers on that computer, as I downloaded them over 6 months ago...been working....don't touch what is working. Now I recall that in the SB0222 DSP that the center/sub was also going to the digital outs as well. Would this also effect the surrounds outputs? Yes, when it wasn't working when I first connected it, I figured that I may have to tweak the settings, and made sure that the mixer gains were turned up all the way. I'll connect the digital outs, try it out, if it doesn't work then I will forward the DSP for all to laugh....hmm...I mean, for all to analyze. In the meantime, I know that the front L and R are connected to 4/5, rear L/R are connected to 6/7 and the center/sub are connected to 8/9. Thanks again for all your help guys (and patients).

Jul 29, 2006, 05:13 AM	Thread Starter #15
Marbles_00 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 9 Rep Power: 0	SUCCESS!!! I ended up having to connect the FXbus6/7 to SPDIF L/R (2/3) on the epilog and connected the lfe/center (fxbus8/9) to digital sub/digital center. I also had to check off to flip the front/rear in the main mixer. Everything is working. Now I have to add in some more inputs (CD, AUX, LINE In, etc.) and try and get the side surrounds (since the card is a 7.1) to work as an independent zone. Thanks one more time for all your help guys.

Jul 29, 2006, 06:01 AM	#16
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,561 Rep Power: 62	I am glad that you figured it out. For the 4th zone, I guess it would be just a matter of figuring out which pins on epilog are for the side channels, and connect those to FxBus 0/1 (and use kX Wave 0/1 for that zone). Adding more sources should not be difficult, it is just a matter of which output(s) you want them to be connected to, and using a different mixer plugin(s) (with more inputs) to mix the various signals together. The inputs for external devices (Line In, etc) will be on the prolog plugin (or you can use ProFX (ProFX : Src and ProFX : ADC)).

Jul 29, 2006, 08:18 AM	#17
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 0	For my card (3538J - sb0350) The 4th outputs (side channels) are called 'I2S 2 - OUT30/31' - on epilog - but I dont think KXlt has them... so you have to use epilog to have access to the 4th set of analog outputs.

Jul 30, 2006, 04:40 AM	Thread Starter #18
Marbles_00 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 9 Rep Power: 0	Maddogg, thanks for the tip. Now I just have to make myself up some cables to plug into those connectors, and I'm hopefully all set.