Using the DSP reverb in Cubase SX...

Jakko · Jan 18, 2007, 12:12 PM

Heya all!

I am completely new in the whole Kx scene, and very impressed with what the Kx drivers have done for my performance and latency in Cubase SX 3 so far.
I have a question though.

I am a musician, and I am wondering wether it is possible to use the DSP reverb in Cubase SX, like one would use a VST plugin.
I did see there was a VST .dll file included in the installpackage, but putting that in the VST plugins folder, and selecting that VST plugin as an insert effect gave errors. (2 to be precise)

I also saw *everything* is possible once you master the mystic arts of editting the Kx DSP window, but sadly I am not yet understanding that part fully.

It would really rock to have a VST plugin for reverb (and other effects) that uses the DSP on the SB live, without having to get into the technical stuff, and changing the DSP settings every time you want to work on a song that uses different DSP settings than the last song.

If there allready is a "general" VST effect plugin that uses Kx than I am sorry about not paying enough attention.

Greetz,

Jakko

JohnN · Jan 18, 2007, 01:06 PM

Hi there and welcome.

There are far more regular and knowledgable people that I, but I'll start...!

What strikes me most is that you appear to be mixing up technologies.

The kX effects (Eg reverb) are not software plug-ins like VSTs; they run in the hardware of your soundcard. They are zero latency with zero load on the CPU. They're almost like having external hardware devices.
In contrast, VST plug-in is totally software with latency and CPU load.

So, having a kX VST doesn't make any sense (to me, at least!) - to ask this is like trying to insert a piece of hardware into your software!

To use the power of kX, I would suggest configuring your DAW for multiple audio outputs, ASIO would be best, say one for MASTER and one for FX BUS. Then just route your fx sends to the FX BUS channel to the kX driver. Route that channel through your chosen kX reverb and you're sorted.

Hopefully one of the programmers will pop-up and explain the VST dll; I've no idea on that score.

As for editing in the DSP, there's a really good guide which shows that ALL you need is the DSP window. It walks you through stripping everything out and then just adding as much (or as little) as you llike (there are hardware limitations on the number of things you can add, though)

Note - please ensure you spell kX correctly, small k, large X, E may ban you otherwise (joke)
:-)

BR
JN

Jakko · Jan 18, 2007, 02:17 PM

Hey yo,

Thanks for the quick reply.

VST plugins for cubase/logic are sometimes made for specific hardware to reduce or completely take away CPU overhead, such as this DSP from EMU:

http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?product=16054

Quote:

The E-MU 02 CardBus Card includes the E-MU Power FX VST plug-in which allows you to access these effects in any VST host application? with no CPU overhead!!!

When I read the description of kX and saw that the program attempted to install a VST .dll, I thought that the kX driver was capable of exactly something like that.
I know it probably IS capable of it, but I don't think the VST .dll is for the purpose I assumed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnN

To use the power of kX, I would suggest configuring your DAW for multiple audio outputs, ASIO would be best, say one for MASTER and one for FX BUS. Then just route your fx sends to the FX BUS channel to the kX driver. Route that channel through your chosen kX reverb and you're sorted.

That sounds.... interesting.
What is a DAW though? ;+)

I will probably have to read and study to really get to know how this stuff works.

But it would still be cool to have this "kX VST plugin" that works as an effect in cubase/logic.
The SBlive hardware reverb sounds much better than most software reverbs...

Maddogg6 · Jan 18, 2007, 04:05 PM

No need to waste resources with a VST to use KX DSP as an 'External Effects' loop setup in Cubase - Just setup ASIO channels to do so - Add a send and return - then use those ASIO channels in KX DSP to affect the SENT signal - and return Via the selected ASIO channel.
So:
Cubase: (ASIO or is it Busses setups applet - cant verify at the moment - But Im certain there is an 'EXTERNAL EFFECTS' tab where you set up what ASIO will be the MAIN monitor buss)
External Effect Send: ASIO 14/15
External Effects Return: ASIO 14/15

KX DSP: FXBuss 14-15 -> reverb (or what ever effect) > Epilog (asio 14/15 pins) or ProFx/ASIO.

No additional resources needed. You just made KX DSP an effects loop in Cubase. (Sonar is similar, just more obvious)

thomasabarnes · Jan 18, 2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakko

What is a DAW though? ;+)

Hi:

A DAW is a Digital Audio Workstation. This means a DAW is the computer you have put together for music production (including the Multi-track Digital Audio/Sequencer, soundcard, and other software and hardware you use to do your Music Production (including sotware synthesizers, Processsor, motherboard, RAM, and other software and hardware installed on your system). Usually, a DAW is a computer put together or bought specifically for Music Production purposes.

Hope that helps.

@ Maddog6

Hey man, I'm back.

hehe

Jakko · Jan 18, 2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddogg6

Cubase: (ASIO or is it Busses setups applet - cant verify at the moment - But Im certain there is an 'EXTERNAL EFFECTS' tab where you set up what ASIO will be the MAIN monitor buss)
External Effect Send: ASIO 14/15
External Effects Return: ASIO 14/15

KX DSP: FXBuss 14-15 -> reverb (or what ever effect) > Epilog (asio 14/15 pins) or ProFx/ASIO.

No additional resources needed. You just made KX DSP an effects loop in Cubase. (Sonar is similar, just more obvious)

I tried exactly what you said and it didn't work.
On the moment I select the external effect in the insert slot of the audio channel I want to use it on, Cubase XS crashes...

Jakko · Jan 18, 2007, 06:10 PM

Ok correction, I just tried again, and SX did not crash this time, but no sound at all was coming back from the external effect insert.
In dsp I connected:

FX Bus 14/15 >> Reverb Lite >> Epilog 14/15

thomasabarnes · Jan 18, 2007, 06:43 PM

Jakko:

You may want to read these guides for help:

http://members.home.nl/nahutec/kxtutor/kxtutor.html

The Guide at this thread: http://driverheaven.net/showthread.p...t=cubase+guide

Jakko · Jan 18, 2007, 06:56 PM

Thanks, especially that second guide is very helpful.
Still a problem though, my VST inputs disappeared...
They are just no longer there in cubase.

I'll see wether more had this problem.

Maddogg6 · Jan 19, 2007, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomasabarnes

@ Maddog6

Hey man, I'm back.

hehe

Hey Thomas - Welcome back...

Maddogg6 · Jan 19, 2007, 04:31 AM

@OP:
'External FX' show up in the FX list when choosing a track insert, or adding an FX track etc.. depends on your work flow/needs I guess. Sounds like you need to read up more on the Cubase manual about routing - as its complex and greatly depends on what your doing and how you prefer to work.

BiCho · Jan 27, 2007, 11:08 PM

actually is much more useful having the effects running inside, as a VST, rather than on a DSP. not only you can save CPU power but you can chain them along native plugins, you can render your audio tracks within the application (using kX's DSP you have to record manually in order to mixdown your work) and you can do a different configuration of kX's functions for every song!

actually there is one plugin, LeMury's drumkit, which is a VSTi kX powered, and its a very nice work!!

Jan 18, 2007, 12:12 PM	#1
Jakko DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Using the DSP reverb in Cubase SX... Heya all! I am completely new in the whole Kx scene, and very impressed with what the Kx drivers have done for my performance and latency in Cubase SX 3 so far. I have a question though. I am a musician, and I am wondering wether it is possible to use the DSP reverb in Cubase SX, like one would use a VST plugin. I did see there was a VST .dll file included in the installpackage, but putting that in the VST plugins folder, and selecting that VST plugin as an insert effect gave errors. (2 to be precise) I also saw everything is possible once you master the mystic arts of editting the Kx DSP window, but sadly I am not yet understanding that part fully. It would really rock to have a VST plugin for reverb (and other effects) that uses the DSP on the SB live, without having to get into the technical stuff, and changing the DSP settings every time you want to work on a song that uses different DSP settings than the last song. If there allready is a "general" VST effect plugin that uses Kx than I am sorry about not paying enough attention. Greetz, Jakko

Jan 18, 2007, 01:06 PM	#2
JohnN DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Notts, UK Posts: 68 Rep Power: 0	Hi there and welcome. There are far more regular and knowledgable people that I, but I'll start...! What strikes me most is that you appear to be mixing up technologies. The kX effects (Eg reverb) are not software plug-ins like VSTs; they run in the hardware of your soundcard. They are zero latency with zero load on the CPU. They're almost like having external hardware devices. In contrast, VST plug-in is totally software with latency and CPU load. So, having a kX VST doesn't make any sense (to me, at least!) - to ask this is like trying to insert a piece of hardware into your software! To use the power of kX, I would suggest configuring your DAW for multiple audio outputs, ASIO would be best, say one for MASTER and one for FX BUS. Then just route your fx sends to the FX BUS channel to the kX driver. Route that channel through your chosen kX reverb and you're sorted. Hopefully one of the programmers will pop-up and explain the VST dll; I've no idea on that score. As for editing in the DSP, there's a really good guide which shows that ALL you need is the DSP window. It walks you through stripping everything out and then just adding as much (or as little) as you llike (there are hardware limitations on the number of things you can add, though) Note - please ensure you spell kX correctly, small k, large X, E may ban you otherwise (joke) :-) BR JN __________________ AMD 64 skt 939 4000+, 2G DDR, XFX6800GT, 80G + 200G, Audigy2 Value, IKEA room

Jan 18, 2007, 06:43 PM	#8
thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,375 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Jakko: You may want to read these guides for help: http://members.home.nl/nahutec/kxtutor/kxtutor.html The Guide at this thread: http://driverheaven.net/showthread.p...t=cubase+guide __________________ May a song always touch you in a positive way. SONAR X1D Expanded, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB x2 HDD 7200 rpm My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs

Jan 27, 2007, 11:08 PM	#12
BiCho Audiotecna- Representante Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Bogota, Colombia Posts: 173 Rep Power: 0	actually is much more useful having the effects running inside, as a VST, rather than on a DSP. not only you can save CPU power but you can chain them along native plugins, you can render your audio tracks within the application (using kX's DSP you have to record manually in order to mixdown your work) and you can do a different configuration of kX's functions for every song! actually there is one plugin, LeMury's drumkit, which is a VSTi kX powered, and its a very nice work!! __________________ Audiotecna - Innovación Musical Distribuidora oficial de Ortofon DJ, Native Instruments and Moog Music para Colombia (1)8073934

Jan 18, 2007, 04:05 PM	#4
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 0	No need to waste resources with a VST to use KX DSP as an 'External Effects' loop setup in Cubase - Just setup ASIO channels to do so - Add a send and return - then use those ASIO channels in KX DSP to affect the SENT signal - and return Via the selected ASIO channel. So: Cubase: (ASIO or is it Busses setups applet - cant verify at the moment - But Im certain there is an 'EXTERNAL EFFECTS' tab where you set up what ASIO will be the MAIN monitor buss) External Effect Send: ASIO 14/15 External Effects Return: ASIO 14/15 KX DSP: FXBuss 14-15 -> reverb (or what ever effect) > Epilog (asio 14/15 pins) or ProFx/ASIO. No additional resources needed. You just made KX DSP an effects loop in Cubase. (Sonar is similar, just more obvious)

Jan 18, 2007, 06:10 PM	Thread Starter #7
Jakko DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Ok correction, I just tried again, and SX did not crash this time, but no sound at all was coming back from the external effect insert. In dsp I connected: FX Bus 14/15 >> Reverb Lite >> Epilog 14/15

Jan 18, 2007, 06:56 PM	Thread Starter #9
Jakko DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Thanks, especially that second guide is very helpful. Still a problem though, my VST inputs disappeared... They are just no longer there in cubase. I'll see wether more had this problem.

Jan 19, 2007, 04:31 AM	#11
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 0	@OP: 'External FX' show up in the FX list when choosing a track insert, or adding an FX track etc.. depends on your work flow/needs I guess. Sounds like you need to read up more on the Cubase manual about routing - as its complex and greatly depends on what your doing and how you prefer to work.