superspace reverb

stylus02 · Jul 12, 2009, 08:48 PM

have made a reverb. status: beta

; late reverb algorithm from freeverb by "Jezar at Dreampoint"
; early reflections from impulse response "lexicon 480l" / fat plate

; true stereo

http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...erspace_fp.htm

stylus

Russ · Jul 15, 2009, 08:07 PM

Whats this now? More toys to play with?

hehe

Thanks!

TheKezReturns · Jul 17, 2009, 02:08 AM

Nice one stylus02.

Quote:

early reflections from impulse response "lexicon 480l" / fat plate

Can you explain this. Is it using convolution realtime or you 'modeled' it after that impulse response?

stylus02 · Jul 17, 2009, 03:59 PM

> Whats this now? More toys to play with?
i had to improve my reverb knowledge to rise up to the effects- masters

> Is it using convolution realtime or you 'modeled' it after that impulse response?
long time ago i found a set of impulse responses from a "lexicon 480l".
it`s no convolution in the frequency spectrum like in convolution reverbs.
the first impulses (spikes) are extraced by hand from the impulse response sample and entered in delay lines. each spike has it`s own amplitude and phase. the delay out`s are cross- multiplicated with these data. we get some (2*8) early reflections that are similar to the lexicon ones. i don´t know if i can name this convolution..

note: i`m making a new website. coming soon: more early models coming and better s/n ratio.

new site:
http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...xas/index.html

stylus

janez · Sep 14, 2009, 05:34 PM

Does that mean that in the early Reflections you get Reflections from an impuls and not from the actual signal you feed to the input?
btw. I tried to install it and even when I clear the dsp window completely it still says "no free tram registers"
Is this a 10k2 only plugin?

Russ · Sep 14, 2009, 05:45 PM

Yes, it is a 10k2 only plugin since it uses 50 xTRAM registers (10k1 has only 32 xTRAM registers).

cxcnc · Oct 31, 2009, 05:24 PM

Can you send it to cx0101@gmail.com ? I can't download it. thanks

Russ · Oct 31, 2009, 06:41 PM

The plugin (superspace_fp_v1.0.da) is just a text file, so you should secondary click on the link and choose "Save Link As" (or "Save Target As") to save it.

JoshuaChang · Jan 4, 2010, 06:15 AM

excuse me, but is it possible to extract other impulse responses? like vss3 or something else?

stylus02 · Jan 4, 2010, 06:20 PM

theoretically all impulses responses can be used. therefore a dirac impulse (short click noise) is sent into the reverb (vss3 or whatever) and the impulse response is taken up. most remarkable early reflections in this sample (picture) supply the data for the own reverb. early reflections are important for characterisation of the room. if one employs it skillfully it listens close to the original reverb itself. naturally this method is only a approximation. the late reflections are produced with freeverb. this is an excellent free reverb, which remains unchanged here. take a look at this:

http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...uperspace.html

JoshuaChang · Jan 5, 2010, 07:10 AM

further question:
sorry for my poor english and audio-tech knowledge

from researching the da file, i guess that the early reflections sample affect the operators in the codes and delay line(maybe?)
like this:

Code:

     macs      wrt12a,  ina,  rd19a,  0x19999999;
     macs      ga,  0x0,  rd12a,  0xdb04060e;
     macs      ga,  ga,  rd13a,  0xd6fa5beb;
     macs      ga,  ga,  rd14a,  0xe74822b5;
     macs      ga,  ga,  rd15a,  0xde66b6e;
     macs      ga,  ga,  rd16a,  0xf4f57261;
     macs      ga,  ga,  rd17a,  0x8479da9;
     macs      ga,  ga,  rd18a,  0xf515cd55;
     macs      ga,  ga,  rd19a,  0x52a1409;
     macs      wrt12b,  inb,  rd19b,  0x19999999;
     macs      gb,  0x0,  rd12b,  0xeca4218c;
     macs      gb,  gb,  rd13b,  0x153a0095;
     macs      gb,  gb,  rd14b,  0xf30fc66f;
     macs      gb,  gb,  rd15b,  0xfe505ca2;
     macs      gb,  gb,  rd16b,  0x74699d5;
     macs      gb,  gb,  rd17b,  0x887ef6;
     macs      gb,  gb,  rd18b,  0xe8b9bc28;
     macs      gb,  gb,  rd19b,  0x19d0c1ea;

my question is:
1.the early reflection samples were extracted from the impulses response's first 8 peak,but how to do the convert?
does it just convert the peak level to 32bit int?(0db to 0xffffffff and -inf to 0x000000?)or it contains other more information?

2.does the early reflection samples affect the delayline samples?both internal and external or only one of them?
if so, how to determine the sample count?

3.does the impulses responses also affect the later reflection parameter?if so, how?

hope you can help me understand the principle of your great reverb plugin, i really thirst for a tc-sound reverb.

regards,
jo

stylus02 · Jan 5, 2010, 10:47 PM

in the code 8 delays are added with different factors (0x0..0x7fffffff) for each channel with some feedback. (maybe i had coupled back only "rd19" instead of "ga" because bad sounding shorter loops. long time ago..)
if you image an impulse response in a sound editor you see in the beginning a peak (the initial dirac impulse) and then a few peaks which increase exponentially later. the first peaks are our early reflections. you can write down time & amplitude step by step.
i think a have sent the early's also into the late block a bit because
we need a smooth transition from early to late reflections. this was experimental. finally early and late reflections are mixed with the original signal.

i fear a tc.electronics reverb is a bit more complicated than my schroeder/moorer like reverb. the concept was introduced in the 70's.
e.g. in a lexicon reverb are a lot of modulated filters and delay lines which does a jitter effect. this is usefull to avoid audible loops in the delay lines. also the frequency responses are changing permanently. tc.elctronics engineers shurely have their own secrets.

today there are more concepts in reverbaration like waveguide meshes, feedback delay network or real convolution. so the superspace is a really old thing.

Ixtas30 · Mar 2, 2011, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stylus02

> Whats this now? More toys to play with?
i had to improve my reverb knowledge to rise up to the effects- masters

> Is it using convolution realtime or you 'modeled' it after that impulse response?
long time ago i found a set of impulse responses from a "lexicon 480l".
it`s no convolution in the frequency spectrum like in convolution reverbs.
the first impulses (spikes) are extraced by hand from the impulse response sample and entered in delay lines. each spike has it`s own amplitude and phase. the delay out`s are cross- multiplicated with these data. we get some (2*8) early reflections that are similar to the lexicon ones. i don´t know if i can name this convolution..

note: i`m making a new website. coming soon: more early models coming and better s/n ratio.

new site:
http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...xas/index.html

stylus

Pleace upoad me this plugin das_boot@pisem.net

stylus02 · Apr 6, 2011, 08:18 PM

i hope you have luck with my temporary website.

http://kxm.dyndns.org/kx_superspace_reverb_v1.0.rar

stylus

dxmparty · Feb 25, 2012, 12:39 PM

link is dead .. please upload

stylus02 · Mar 17, 2012, 02:57 PM

for all those who never tried out the superspace reverb:
https://sites.google.com/site/kxmodular/superspace.zip

stylus

janez · Mar 17, 2012, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stylus02

for all those who never tried out the superspace reverb:
https://sites.google.com/site/kxmodular/superspace.zip
stylus

great stuff, thanks!
Would you mind describing the difference between the versions?

what does fp, lc, mh, mr stand for?

Will there be a 3550 Version for the modular synth?

dxmparty · Mar 17, 2012, 05:17 PM

different version - different early reflection pattern.. read info in each plugin version for describe..

janez · Mar 17, 2012, 08:09 PM

Ah sure, now I get it:
fat plate, large church, medium hall, medium room.

stylus02 · Mar 18, 2012, 09:47 AM

yes thats right. there is no choosing option for different earlys, so i made 4 versions.be careful with the decay time. this reverb can be endless

Tyrsonswood · Mar 18, 2012, 10:28 AM

Nothing wrong with "endless" reverb... it's actually quite hard to find when that's what you need.

AleXH · Apr 5, 2012, 07:42 AM

How right connect reverb with 2 outputs in DSP? I have E-mu 0404PCI and stereo AS, Surrounder+ mode is 2.0 Surround mix.

Variants:
1.
FXBusX.0 - Superspace.in1 - xrouting.FX1_sL
FXBusX.1 - Superspace.in2 - xrouting.FX1_sR

2.
FXBusX.0 - Superspace.in1 - xrouting.FX1_nw
FXBusX.1 - Superspace.in2 - xrouting.FX1_ne

3.
Surrounder+.fL - Superspace.in1 - epilog.out0
Surrounder+.fR - Superspace.in2 - epilog.out1

4. Other variant, write this, pls.

stylus02 · Apr 5, 2012, 11:54 PM

this reverb is stereo. i dont know if it can be used to reproduce 5.1 or whatever correctly. you should find a setup, what your (and your ears) like.

btw: the rear speakers should have a damped sound. you can use the lowpass- filter in the reverb to simulate this.

Jul 12, 2009, 08:48 PM	#1
stylus02 HardwareHeaven Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: germany, sb0090 Posts: 259 Rep Power: 0	superspace reverb have made a reverb. status: beta ; late reverb algorithm from freeverb by "Jezar at Dreampoint" ; early reflections from impulse response "lexicon 480l" / fat plate ; true stereo http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...erspace_fp.htm stylus __________________ http://kxm.dyndns.org

Jul 15, 2009, 08:07 PM	#2
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,561 Rep Power: 62	Re: superspace reverb Whats this now? More toys to play with? hehe Thanks!

Jul 17, 2009, 03:59 PM	Thread Starter #4
stylus02 HardwareHeaven Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: germany, sb0090 Posts: 259 Rep Power: 0	Re: superspace reverb > Whats this now? More toys to play with? i had to improve my reverb knowledge to rise up to the effects- masters > Is it using convolution realtime or you 'modeled' it after that impulse response? long time ago i found a set of impulse responses from a "lexicon 480l". it`s no convolution in the frequency spectrum like in convolution reverbs. the first impulses (spikes) are extraced by hand from the impulse response sample and entered in delay lines. each spike has it`s own amplitude and phase. the delay out`s are cross- multiplicated with these data. we get some (28) early reflections that are similar to the lexicon ones. i don´t know if i can name this convolution.. note: i`m making a new website. coming soon: more early models coming and better s/n ratio. new site: http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...xas/index.html stylus __________________ http://kxm.dyndns.org Last edited by stylus02; Jul 17, 2009 at 07:26 PM.*

Sep 14, 2009, 05:34 PM	#5
janez HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 131 Rep Power: 28	Re: superspace reverb Does that mean that in the early Reflections you get Reflections from an impuls and not from the actual signal you feed to the input? btw. I tried to install it and even when I clear the dsp window completely it still says "no free tram registers" Is this a 10k2 only plugin?

Sep 14, 2009, 05:45 PM	#6
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,561 Rep Power: 62	Re: superspace reverb Yes, it is a 10k2 only plugin since it uses 50 xTRAM registers (10k1 has only 32 xTRAM registers).

Oct 31, 2009, 05:24 PM	#7
cxcnc DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1 Rep Power: 0	Re: superspace reverb Can you send it to cx0101@gmail.com ? I can't download it. thanks

Oct 31, 2009, 06:41 PM	#8
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,561 Rep Power: 62	Re: superspace reverb The plugin (superspace_fp_v1.0.da) is just a text file, so you should secondary click on the link and choose "Save Link As" (or "Save Target As") to save it.

Jan 4, 2010, 06:15 AM	#9
JoshuaChang HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 127 Rep Power: 0	Re: superspace reverb excuse me, but is it possible to extract other impulse responses? like vss3 or something else? __________________ lumetools.blogspot.com

Jan 4, 2010, 06:20 PM	Thread Starter #10
stylus02 HardwareHeaven Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: germany, sb0090 Posts: 259 Rep Power: 0	Re: superspace reverb theoretically all impulses responses can be used. therefore a dirac impulse (short click noise) is sent into the reverb (vss3 or whatever) and the impulse response is taken up. most remarkable early reflections in this sample (picture) supply the data for the own reverb. early reflections are important for characterisation of the room. if one employs it skillfully it listens close to the original reverb itself. naturally this method is only a approximation. the late reflections are produced with freeverb. this is an excellent free reverb, which remains unchanged here. take a look at this: http://freenet-homepage.de/stylish-s...uperspace.html __________________ http://kxm.dyndns.org Last edited by stylus02; Jan 4, 2010 at 06:53 PM.

Jan 5, 2010, 07:10 AM	#11
JoshuaChang HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 127 Rep Power: 0	Re: superspace reverb further question: sorry for my poor english and audio-tech knowledge from researching the da file, i guess that the early reflections sample affect the operators in the codes and delay line(maybe?) like this: Code: macs wrt12a, ina, rd19a, 0x19999999; macs ga, 0x0, rd12a, 0xdb04060e; macs ga, ga, rd13a, 0xd6fa5beb; macs ga, ga, rd14a, 0xe74822b5; macs ga, ga, rd15a, 0xde66b6e; macs ga, ga, rd16a, 0xf4f57261; macs ga, ga, rd17a, 0x8479da9; macs ga, ga, rd18a, 0xf515cd55; macs ga, ga, rd19a, 0x52a1409; macs wrt12b, inb, rd19b, 0x19999999; macs gb, 0x0, rd12b, 0xeca4218c; macs gb, gb, rd13b, 0x153a0095; macs gb, gb, rd14b, 0xf30fc66f; macs gb, gb, rd15b, 0xfe505ca2; macs gb, gb, rd16b, 0x74699d5; macs gb, gb, rd17b, 0x887ef6; macs gb, gb, rd18b, 0xe8b9bc28; macs gb, gb, rd19b, 0x19d0c1ea; my question is: 1.the early reflection samples were extracted from the impulses response's first 8 peak,but how to do the convert? does it just convert the peak level to 32bit int?(0db to 0xffffffff and -inf to 0x000000?)or it contains other more information? 2.does the early reflection samples affect the delayline samples?both internal and external or only one of them? if so, how to determine the sample count? 3.does the impulses responses also affect the later reflection parameter?if so, how? hope you can help me understand the principle of your great reverb plugin, i really thirst for a tc-sound reverb. regards, jo __________________ lumetools.blogspot.com

Jan 5, 2010, 10:47 PM	Thread Starter #12
stylus02 HardwareHeaven Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: germany, sb0090 Posts: 259 Rep Power: 0	Re: superspace reverb in the code 8 delays are added with different factors (0x0..0x7fffffff) for each channel with some feedback. (maybe i had coupled back only "rd19" instead of "ga" because bad sounding shorter loops. long time ago..) if you image an impulse response in a sound editor you see in the beginning a peak (the initial dirac impulse) and then a few peaks which increase exponentially later. the first peaks are our early reflections. you can write down time & amplitude step by step. i think a have sent the early's also into the late block a bit because we need a smooth transition from early to late reflections. this was experimental. finally early and late reflections are mixed with the original signal. i fear a tc.electronics reverb is a bit more complicated than my schroeder/moorer like reverb. the concept was introduced in the 70's. e.g. in a lexicon reverb are a lot of modulated filters and delay lines which does a jitter effect. this is usefull to avoid audible loops in the delay lines. also the frequency responses are changing permanently. tc.elctronics engineers shurely have their own secrets. today there are more concepts in reverbaration like waveguide meshes, feedback delay network or real convolution. so the superspace is a really old thing. __________________ http://kxm.dyndns.org Last edited by stylus02; Jan 6, 2010 at 12:03 AM.

Apr 6, 2011, 08:18 PM	Thread Starter #14
stylus02 HardwareHeaven Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: germany, sb0090 Posts: 259 Rep Power: 0	Re: Îòâåò: Re: superspace reverb i hope you have luck with my temporary website. http://kxm.dyndns.org/kx_superspace_reverb_v1.0.rar stylus __________________ http://kxm.dyndns.org

Feb 25, 2012, 12:39 PM	#15
dxmparty HardwareHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 0	Îòâåò: superspace reverb link is dead .. please upload

Mar 17, 2012, 02:57 PM	Thread Starter #16
stylus02 HardwareHeaven Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: germany, sb0090 Posts: 259 Rep Power: 0	Re: superspace reverb for all those who never tried out the superspace reverb: https://sites.google.com/site/kxmodular/superspace.zip stylus __________________ http://kxm.dyndns.org

Mar 17, 2012, 05:17 PM	#18
dxmparty HardwareHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 0	Îòâåò: superspace reverb different version - different early reflection pattern.. read info in each plugin version for describe..

Mar 17, 2012, 08:09 PM	#19
janez HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 131 Rep Power: 28	Re: Îòâåò: superspace reverb Ah sure, now I get it: fat plate, large church, medium hall, medium room.

Mar 18, 2012, 09:47 AM	Thread Starter #20
stylus02 HardwareHeaven Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: germany, sb0090 Posts: 259 Rep Power: 0	Re: superspace reverb yes thats right. there is no choosing option for different earlys, so i made 4 versions.be careful with the decay time. this reverb can be endless __________________ http://kxm.dyndns.org Last edited by stylus02; Mar 18, 2012 at 09:56 AM.

Apr 5, 2012, 07:42 AM	#22
AleXH HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 21 Rep Power: 0	Îòâåò: superspace reverb How right connect reverb with 2 outputs in DSP? I have E-mu 0404PCI and stereo AS, Surrounder+ mode is 2.0 Surround mix. Variants: 1. FXBusX.0 - Superspace.in1 - xrouting.FX1_sL FXBusX.1 - Superspace.in2 - xrouting.FX1_sR 2. FXBusX.0 - Superspace.in1 - xrouting.FX1_nw FXBusX.1 - Superspace.in2 - xrouting.FX1_ne 3. Surrounder+.fL - Superspace.in1 - epilog.out0 Surrounder+.fR - Superspace.in2 - epilog.out1 4. Other variant, write this, pls.

Apr 5, 2012, 11:54 PM	Thread Starter #23
stylus02 HardwareHeaven Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: germany, sb0090 Posts: 259 Rep Power: 0	Re: superspace reverb this reverb is stereo. i dont know if it can be used to reproduce 5.1 or whatever correctly. you should find a setup, what your (and your ears) like. btw: the rear speakers should have a damped sound. you can use the lowpass- filter in the reverb to simulate this. __________________ http://kxm.dyndns.org Last edited by stylus02; Apr 6, 2012 at 12:00 AM.