WxMan1

I understand that 0/1 map to analog line-out (green jack), and 2/3 maps to analog rear-out (black jack), and that 7/8, 9/10, 11/12 map to the digital out jack.

What jacks does 4/5, 6/7 map to? And what about 13/14?

Russ

Hmm, well the output numbering depends on how you have it configured, etc, but the others are probably the Center/LFE jack, the Live! Drive Headphone jack, and Windows Recording (MME/WDM/KS).

Note: that these "outputs" are DSP outputs, and not necessarily jacks on the card (e.g. WinMM Recording).

WxMan1

Well, that just doesn't make any sense.

Green is front, and black is rear. Period. It don't matter what I configure the ProFX plugin outputs to in the DSP.

AFAIU, to utilize "headphones out" on k1lt would require having hardware plugged into the AUD_EXT connector. ANY signal from the DSP that is sent to any k1lt ProFX plugin output configured "headphones" would be directed to the AUD_EXT connector.

What I'm not clear on concerns the "digital out" jack. According to the rules, that is for front and rear SPDIF channels. Decoding signal from that jack would seem to require external hardware capable of decoding digital signals on that "port".

However, if I was totally analog, I could put analog center / LFE onto this jack? It doesn't matter which K1lt output I configure that to, the DSP will redirect (as appropriate) to the correct output "port" on the fly? That is so long as a 4-post jack is plugged into that jack? And the equipment plugged into that jack can read the analog signals off of the 4-post plug in the jack?



I thought I knew this stuff.

jaromanda

I have (at least) one "Live" card (out of the 5 I possess) where the digital out jack could also be used as a headphone jack or analog centre/LFE

I think

that probably just confused the issue for you

the statement "green is front, black is rear" statement is true though

Russ

I did not say anything about the jack coloring, I was referring to the numbering that you referenced (i.e. 0/1, 2/3, etc) when asking about the k1lt outputs, which is configurable (thus the numbers are meaningless, unless we know how it is configured).
i.e. When you say "What jack does output 4/5 (Out3L/Out3R ?) map to?", it is whatever you have it configured to be.

Regarding the digital outputs, on some card models (e.g. 5.1 models), the digital outputs are only active when Digital Output Only (DOO) mode is enabled (in which case the analog outputs are disabled).
(i.e. Depending on the DOO setting, it is analog only or digital only.)

No, to utilize 'Analog Center/LFE', (DOO mode must be disabled per the above, and) you have to manually connect that signal (or whatever signal you wish to send to that output) in the DSP to whichever k1lt output you have configured as 'Analog Center/LFE'.

WxMan1

That's not what I'm seeing, Russ. You make it sound as if I could configure the green jack to be anything. But I can not. It is "analog front" period. The black jack is "rear out". Period. Use of the ProFX k1lt plugin dictates hard-wiring swap of rear to front jacks in the driver. If one uses epilog, however, then front-rear codec swap can be toggled in the mixer.

If I'm using k1lt, then Out1/2, Out3/4 are reserved for green and black jacks (F & R respectively). What I'm unclear on is if it matters which remaining outputs are configured as analog Ctr/LFE. Suppose I configure out13/14 as analog CTR/LFE and I plug a 4-pole 3.5mm plug into the yellow mini-jack, am I going to get CTR/LFE output on that jack?

If that is the case, it would seem that I could configure any of the remaining outputs for digital Front, and digital CTR/LFE (they're seperately configurable) and it wouldn't matter whatsoever. If I check DOO, then all surround sound signals (F/R/CTR/LFE) will be available on the yellow mini-jack and are decoded by the external surround sound equipment. From this I would infer that the green and black jacks would be dead.

I also would infer, that in DOO mode, and if I had Live Drive installed (requiring ribbon cable connected to the AUD_EXT connector onboard the sound card), that the headphone jack on the LiveDrive front panel also would be dead. To listen to headphones - with DOO checked - I'd have to plug them into the external digital surround sound control interface headphone jack.

If, however, I uncheck DOO, then green reverts to analog front, black reverts to analog rear, and analog CTR/LFE can be on configured to any k1lt output (but will be only available on the yellow min-jack) and if I plug in headphones into the LiveDrive front panel, the green, black, and yellow jacks will go dead and sound will only be heard through the headphones.

Concurrently with that, the specific k1lst output for Win MM Recording is immaterial, i.e., the Kx driver routes that ouput to the system bus and is available automatically to the Windows application depending on Win MM Recording input.

The foregoing is entirely dependent upon each k1lt output actually being wired with some source signal (either from Surrounder or some other plugins, e.g. directly from FxBus outputs, or specific SRC plugins). For example, if out1/out2 is wired to receive Win MM Recording (and no other k1lt output is specifically wired for any input), then no sound will be found on any jack (regardless of DOO configuration).

Russ

Yes, the green jack is analog front (as labeled in k1lt), but if you swap it with analog rear in k1lt's GUI, then it will receive the signal that was previously sent to analog rear (analog front will still refer to the same jack, but it now gets a different signal). You are not swapping jacks, you are swapping which signal is sent to them.

When outputs are not being used (i.e. disabled by DOO or whatever), it makes no difference what is connected to them in the DSP (i.e. you do not have to connect anything to them).

BTW: I would think that DOO mode only effects the outputs on the rear of the card, but I would have to test it to be sure.

WxMan1

I think I just got caught being stupid. The ProFX k1lt plugin out1/2 is indeed dedicated to the green plug and IF those outputs are configured for "rear out" in the GUI, whatever's been wired to out3/4 will be present on the green plug. Moreover, the black plug will output that which has been wired to out1/2 IF "analog front out" is configured for out3/4.

I only have one question: is "analog front out" derived from the rear codec by default or is that dependent upon the the "toggle swap front / rear" check box in the mixer? My understanding is that the mixer setting has no effect in the k1lt plugin (the toggle setting only affects the epilog plugin).

What would happen if I configured any of the digital signals, analog center/LFE, or Win MM Record to out3/4 (which corresponds to the black plug)? I'm guessing the same principle would apply to out1/2 also.

Lex Nahumury

No, no, no. As Russ already pointed out, Nothing is dedicated to any output!
For example, the black output plug can be routed to any of the pin numbers.

I think you get confused by the 'automatic swap function' in KXLT's GUI;
If you change any of the assignments in one of the combo boxes, another will automaticly change/adapt. Have a look at it's mechanisme. You'll see.
Hope this helps.

/Lex.

Russ

Again you are getting hung up on the numbers, forget about the numbers, the names in the combo boxes are what is important.

e.g. "Headphones Out" will always be the Live! Drive headphones, regardless of whether it is chosen as Out1, or Out2, or ...

You are over-thinking it, it is actually very simple.
Trace a signal from it's source in the DSP to the k1lt pins it is connected to.
Look at the name of the pin (e.g. Out4L/Out4R).
Open k1lt's GUI, and whatever is selected in the Out# (e.g. Out4) that corresponds to the pin that the signal is connected to, is where the signal will go.

e.g.
You are playing an MP3 using kX Wave 2/3.
Your have FxBus 2/3 connected to the 9th and 10th pins of k1lt, which is Out5L/Out5R (see the tooltips).
Open k1lt's GUI and whatever is selected for Out5 is where your MP3 will play.

WxMan1

OMG! I am so stupid. The test I ran to come to the conclusion I did was so flawed, it makes flat-earthers look like rocket scientists in comparison.

I know what I did.

The green jack can be assigned to any arbitrary output pair purely on the basis of assignment of "analog front output" to that output pair. The same holds true for the black jack. For examle, out13/14 could refer to the green jack if its assigned "analog front output", and out1/2 could be black if its assigned "rear out". And by extension all the other crap too.



So is rear DAC-sourced "analog front out" dependent on the "swap front-rear speaker"l toggle in the mixer (or is that hardwired in the k1lt)? I.e., if it's checked then "analog front output" is actually provided to the green jack by the rear DAC (and if its not checked, the front DAC provides the signal to the green jack)? Or it doesn't matter what the toggle is set at, the k1lt provides whichever output pair is defined as the green plug with signal processed by the rear DAC.

Regardless of any of that, whatever output pair is defined as being the black plug (solely on the basis of being configured as "rear out") should utilize a "phase" plugin in the input to that particular output pair.

Russ

Now you got it...

IIRC, kx's Swap Front and Rear setting has no effect on k1lt.
k1lt inverts the phase of analog rear, so no phase plugin is needed.

WxMan1

Thank you, and Lex, for your patience with little ol' dense me. My two brain cells aren't on speaking terms.

I only have one question then: is k1lt hardwired to use the rear DAC for "analog front out"? Is phase inversion automatically applied to the rear DAC provided signal or to the black plug output?

Oh, and one more question: is the hardwired DAC useage true also for the k2lt? Is phase inversion of the rear DAC signal still an issue with k2lt based boards?

Russ

With kxlt, analog front is the jack specified as analog front in the Creative docs (i.e. the green jack). If you want to swap them (as per kX suggestions), then you will have to account for that when using kxlt (i.e. send front signal to analog rear).

BTW: kX Mixer (Swap Front and Rear option) does not swap DACS or Codecs, it just swaps where the signals are going. It is the same as if you manually swapped the connections in the DSP, but easier (same thing when you reassign outputs in kxlt).

As far as the phase inversion thing goes, I am not sure which hardware needs it, and which doesn't, but k1lt does it with my 10k1 card (SB0228) and k2lt does not do it with my 10k2 card (SB0090).

Lex Nahumury

Yep, it's like Russ explained;
- The swap toggle in kxmixer does not affect kxlt.
- On 10k1 cards (except emu aps) kxlt will automatically phase correct RearOut.
10k2 cards do not need this
- Codec to jack assignment is fixed in hardware. No plugin nor kxmixer can change that.

WxMan1

Thanks for clearing up my befuddlement.