DSP xrouting + epilog record plugs

farrenn · Dec 11, 2003, 02:34 AM

Im tryin to get a grasp on this stuff since I'm new here....and the more I read and look at info the more I'm impressed bout how amazing this driver package is....

One thing I'm having trouble finding after sifting thru quite a bit of threads is info on the epilog and xrouting record plugs....although I could have read what I needed and just misunderstood it to...

The following question(s) may not make sense because my lack of understanding of how things work but here goes......

1. On the xrouting RecL and RecR (blue connection) source...is this the output of the Kx Mixer? What can it be plugged to, or should be ie can it be plugged to asio outs(red plugs) on the epilog or does it have to be plugged into the epilog's record L/R red plugs?

2. On the epilog what does the out 30 and 31 do? Also what does the record L/R do on the epilog where does it route out from the epilog?

If anyone can offer help in my understanding here that would be great...and much appreciated...thx

Daniel Drummond · Dec 11, 2003, 03:04 AM

1. You can plug it into an ASIO input, but there's no need to that as you can connect your source directly to an ASIO input. You can also run an effect after it and before the epilog to record with effects. 2. Don't know about 30 and 31, but probably they're outputs that exist in the chip but are not available in any connectors in the card. Record L/R output to any wav mme recording device (kx regular multimedia drivers, not asio).

farrenn · Dec 11, 2003, 03:42 AM

That helps and makes sense.....I've pretty much got everything to route the way I want it to now thanks....kind of just goofin around seeing what all I can throw in where and such....

The only thing I have not got to do what I want to now is my prolog L/R for my ac97/Line in I dont know if because it is analog if it has to go thru some odd stuff or what.....think I'll check out the boards for that...I'm sure someone has covered it somewhere...

Thank You for your time Daniel

Daniel Drummond · Dec 11, 2003, 03:55 AM

You use prolog's 0 and 1 (ac97/line in) the same way you'd use any other connector in the dsp window. You can route it through an effect or straight to an asio input for instance.

farrenn · Dec 11, 2003, 04:07 AM

Just got it.....thx...
Somehow I manage to keep getting either the line in muted and or the ac97 muted...dont know how I'm managing to do that....but it's cool just got it where I need it........

man i feel like a complete n00b lol

Thanks again...

I should (knock on wood) be golden from here...

Daniel Drummond · Dec 11, 2003, 12:25 PM

You must leave the AC97 slider up an unmuted in the INS AND OUTS page of the mixer. Even if you disconnect prolog's 0 and 1 from Xrouting.

farrenn · Dec 12, 2003, 12:01 AM

/nod

where I was having my problem was (and Im not quite sure what I did to do this) somehow the ac97 mute button in the record portion would be on (so it was muted) but I was still reading a value in the slider like 57 or so. Then when I went to move the slider it would go to INF....

So I was plug'n stuff everywhere (with a good knowledge of how "patching" works) wondering why in the world I wasnt getting any output /boggle

Then I figured out that my AC97 was muted....even though it showed an output value. Prolly a small bug somewhere no biggie....it was just a lil confusing. With my being new to the drivers I was clueless thinking I left something out.

masa · Dec 12, 2003, 01:58 PM

So, are you saying with this, we could take the input of the line l/r and put it straight into a set of effects? Here is what I want to do, and maybe someone can point me to it. I am getting extremely lost on this configuration.

Live Audio --> Line L/R --> AGC --> EQ --> COMPRESSOR --> Program capturing the live audio.

Please someone help, i'm a little lost.

Thanks.

Daniel Drummond · Dec 12, 2003, 02:34 PM

Yes Masa, just do it that way. Remember that LINE L/R = PROLOG 0/1. Program capturing the live audio = EPILOG ASIO 0 and 1 (if using KX ASIO drivers) or EPILOG REC R/L if using regular recording software. You can also connect the compressor (last effect in chain) to the XROUTING (where prolog 0 and 1 are already connected) to listen to the sound WITH effects applied.

masa · Dec 12, 2003, 02:43 PM

I'm having a hard time envisioning how this connects. I'm using the normal KX DSP drivers, as ASIO doesn't really do me much good.

Thanks again for any help you provide. It is appreciated very much..
Masa

masa · Dec 12, 2003, 02:51 PM

Okay.

Somo, using the prolog module
i would take the top two blue side and conenct them to the red side of gainHQ. ganHQ then connects to AGC. Then AGC connects to the 10 band EQ. also, there is a connection to a peak meter off the blue side of the AGC. The EQ then goes to the red connectors of the APS Compressor.. From the blue side of the compressor it goes to epilog recL/relR ? also after the compressor there is a peak meter out there. Then something goes to the xrouting?

I'm trying my best to understand how to program this thing. It's very powerful and great.. just a little confusing at first. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
masa

Daniel Drummond · Dec 12, 2003, 02:59 PM

Yep, you got it. Just experiment with it. It won't hurt. If you mess with the dsp window you can always re-initialize it and have it just like when you installed the driver. So, no big deal. Do it and see what you get.

masa · Dec 12, 2003, 03:09 PM

I'm trying to see how it works, but none of my VU meters in the chain works when I set it up like that.

There is something I am doing wrong. I have been trying to play with it for the last week and can't get it to do what I need it to do.

Any help would be appreciated very much.

Thanks,
masa

masa · Dec 12, 2003, 03:20 PM

oh, what should the mixer settings be set at? Should AC97 be set to LineIn? I get confused with where these correspond with the DSP setup.

Just so you understand what I'm doing, is that I am NOT using the WAVE device on my card. I am using the line in, and then the output of the card to monitors. I want it to be an audio processor. It won't play any audio from the WAVE itself. So if I could remove some of the translations, or something, maybe I wouldn't be so confused. Where does the FX bus fit into any of this (if at all)? Should the translations be before or after microcode, or don't care?

Daniel Drummond · Dec 12, 2003, 04:24 PM

Ok, explain me exactly all you want to achieve with this card and I'll help you out.

masa · Dec 12, 2003, 04:40 PM

Hmm.. Okay, here is what I want to do.

I have audio from my console, we'll call it RECORD OUT. This RECORD OUT on the console is going to come in to the 10k1 card through the LINE IN port on the back of the card. from the back of the card, the Front L/R will go back out to the board on what's called an EXT INPUT.

What I would like to have happen is:

As the audio comes OUT of the board and goes into the 10k1, it is processed by kX in the effects modules I listed above. Along with the the audio going back out of the card, a piece of software will be running to capture the live sound coming in. I want the software to pick up the processed audio. So the card will be "recording" this live audio, and will be sending it back out it's output.

The processing chain I listed above has the PEAK Meters so that I could monitor the data as it goes through the chain.

I hope my description is easy to understand. I know what I want to do with it, I just don't know how to lay it out in the DSP. If you need, I will include current DSP window so you get a better understanding.

http://www.misproductions.com/temp/dsprouter.jpg

This is the current configuration for using it as playback during processing.

Pre-Input meter is the program output
AGC Meter is the audio level after the GainHQ/AGC
Final Out is the last meter before going out to the output of the card.

I want that Pre-Input to be the meter for the RAW Line in.
AGC Meter for the level after the GainHQ/AGC effect applied to Line In audio
Then the final out is like the final meter showing the final audio input before it goes to the recording software.

kokoon · Dec 13, 2003, 11:06 AM

you said you'll only be using you soundcard for effect chain on the line-in, so it would be alot easier to start with a clean dsp. then just add prolog and epilog.
http://193.77.148.121/kx/masa1.jpg

attach a peak meter to the first two pins of the prolog (ac97 in). then open your mixer and enable the ac97 input (should not be muted). if you set the level around +-0db, some noise should be visible on the peak meter.
http://193.77.148.121/kx/masa2.jpg

to see/hear if everything works ok for now, connect the ac97-in from prolog to the appropriate output on epilog. probably you're connecting to analogue front-out. after this, you should be hearing the signal on soundcard's front-out.
http://193.77.148.121/kx/masa3.jpg

now just set up the effect chain you need. put it between the prolog and epilog instead of the direct connection shown in the previous picture. you can tweak all the effects and you can hear the result in realtime.
http://193.77.148.121/kx/masa4.jpg

ok, now the recording. simply connect the signal from the chain to the recL and recR on the epilog (pins 32 and 33 on my soundcard). if you want, you can add another gain inbetween and another peak meter to set the optimal output level.
http://193.77.148.121/kx/masa5.jpg

after this just configure your sound recording application to record from the good old "kX Wave CT4760 10k1 [c800] 0/1" Wave In device.

masa · Dec 13, 2003, 10:35 PM

Thanks for the reply! I set them according to what you had said, and am wondering what the translations should be, before, after, or don't care. Also, when I set it up this way, I feel like I'm getting kind of like an echoish feedback on the processed recorded audio. It does not sound like that on the front outs. just the final output of the recorded audio. What mixer settings should I be changing for the record level? I've been trying to play around with it and got different unwanted effects. I also have come to find out that the AGC module I was using doesn't work anymore. It just freezes up kxmixer. it worked fine in 34, but not 36. Any help would be appreciated very much.

Thanks for the help,
masa

kokoon · Dec 14, 2003, 12:08 AM

i recommend you getting rid of the old version. get the new, 36 version. also forget about the agc, set your levels manualy. also un-check "advanced options" in the dsp context menu. you dont have to bother with the plugins translation position. on the feedback: make sure only "ac97" is checked for recording (in the mixer).

masa · Dec 15, 2003, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kokoon
i recommend you getting rid of the old version. get the new, 36 version. also forget about the agc, set your levels manualy. also un-check "advanced options" in the dsp context menu. you dont have to bother with the plugins translation position. on the feedback: make sure only "ac97" is checked for recording (in the mixer).

Thanks for your reply!

I am using 36. I need the AGC, unfortunately. The input coming in is not always coming from a a stable source. Some audio is lower than others.. I need AGC to automatically bring the volume up to -2 DB if below -2 DB, as well as limit it only at 0 DB if it it goes above -2 DB. The AGC I saw in there, doesn't exactly do that. So, I guess I need to code a module.. but I know not how to code DSP code. I know there are a lot of different processors out there, but they all have like extra stuff that causes problems.

Thanks for your help, it is appreciated. if I can find the AGC that does both, bringing up the audio automatically, as well as limiting it then I am good. So far I havn't seen a module that just does that. no extra stuff needed. Do I have to use two seperate modules to accomplish that?

thanks,
masa

Dec 11, 2003, 02:34 AM	#1
farrenn DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 11 Rep Power: 0	DSP xrouting + epilog record plugs Im tryin to get a grasp on this stuff since I'm new here....and the more I read and look at info the more I'm impressed bout how amazing this driver package is.... One thing I'm having trouble finding after sifting thru quite a bit of threads is info on the epilog and xrouting record plugs....although I could have read what I needed and just misunderstood it to... The following question(s) may not make sense because my lack of understanding of how things work but here goes...... 1. On the xrouting RecL and RecR (blue connection) source...is this the output of the Kx Mixer? What can it be plugged to, or should be ie can it be plugged to asio outs(red plugs) on the epilog or does it have to be plugged into the epilog's record L/R red plugs? 2. On the epilog what does the out 30 and 31 do? Also what does the record L/R do on the epilog where does it route out from the epilog? If anyone can offer help in my understanding here that would be great...and much appreciated...thx

Dec 11, 2003, 03:04 AM	#2
Daniel Drummond DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 1,137 Rep Power: 0	1. You can plug it into an ASIO input, but there's no need to that as you can connect your source directly to an ASIO input. You can also run an effect after it and before the epilog to record with effects. 2. Don't know about 30 and 31, but probably they're outputs that exist in the chip but are not available in any connectors in the card. Record L/R output to any wav mme recording device (kx regular multimedia drivers, not asio). __________________ www.palcomp3.com.br/ed

Dec 11, 2003, 03:55 AM	#4
Daniel Drummond DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 1,137 Rep Power: 0	You use prolog's 0 and 1 (ac97/line in) the same way you'd use any other connector in the dsp window. You can route it through an effect or straight to an asio input for instance. __________________ www.palcomp3.com.br/ed

Dec 11, 2003, 12:25 PM	#6
Daniel Drummond DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 1,137 Rep Power: 0	You must leave the AC97 slider up an unmuted in the INS AND OUTS page of the mixer. Even if you disconnect prolog's 0 and 1 from Xrouting. __________________ www.palcomp3.com.br/ed

Dec 12, 2003, 02:34 PM	#9
Daniel Drummond DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 1,137 Rep Power: 0	Yes Masa, just do it that way. Remember that LINE L/R = PROLOG 0/1. Program capturing the live audio = EPILOG ASIO 0 and 1 (if using KX ASIO drivers) or EPILOG REC R/L if using regular recording software. You can also connect the compressor (last effect in chain) to the XROUTING (where prolog 0 and 1 are already connected) to listen to the sound WITH effects applied. __________________ www.palcomp3.com.br/ed

Dec 11, 2003, 03:42 AM	Thread Starter #3
farrenn DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 11 Rep Power: 0	That helps and makes sense.....I've pretty much got everything to route the way I want it to now thanks....kind of just goofin around seeing what all I can throw in where and such.... The only thing I have not got to do what I want to now is my prolog L/R for my ac97/Line in I dont know if because it is analog if it has to go thru some odd stuff or what.....think I'll check out the boards for that...I'm sure someone has covered it somewhere... Thank You for your time Daniel

Dec 11, 2003, 04:07 AM	Thread Starter #5
farrenn DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 11 Rep Power: 0	Just got it.....thx... Somehow I manage to keep getting either the line in muted and or the ac97 muted...dont know how I'm managing to do that....but it's cool just got it where I need it........ man i feel like a complete n00b lol Thanks again... I should (knock on wood) be golden from here...

Dec 12, 2003, 12:01 AM	Thread Starter #7
farrenn DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 11 Rep Power: 0	/nod where I was having my problem was (and Im not quite sure what I did to do this) somehow the ac97 mute button in the record portion would be on (so it was muted) but I was still reading a value in the slider like 57 or so. Then when I went to move the slider it would go to INF.... So I was plug'n stuff everywhere (with a good knowledge of how "patching" works) wondering why in the world I wasnt getting any output /boggle Then I figured out that my AC97 was muted....even though it showed an output value. Prolly a small bug somewhere no biggie....it was just a lil confusing. With my being new to the drivers I was clueless thinking I left something out.

Dec 12, 2003, 01:58 PM	#8
masa DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Fresno, California, USA. Posts: 15 Rep Power: 0	So, are you saying with this, we could take the input of the line l/r and put it straight into a set of effects? Here is what I want to do, and maybe someone can point me to it. I am getting extremely lost on this configuration. Live Audio --> Line L/R --> AGC --> EQ --> COMPRESSOR --> Program capturing the live audio. Please someone help, i'm a little lost. Thanks.

Dec 12, 2003, 02:43 PM	#10
masa DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Fresno, California, USA. Posts: 15 Rep Power: 0	I'm having a hard time envisioning how this connects. I'm using the normal KX DSP drivers, as ASIO doesn't really do me much good. Thanks again for any help you provide. It is appreciated very much.. Masa

Dec 12, 2003, 02:51 PM	#11
masa DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Fresno, California, USA. Posts: 15 Rep Power: 0	Okay. Somo, using the prolog module i would take the top two blue side and conenct them to the red side of gainHQ. ganHQ then connects to AGC. Then AGC connects to the 10 band EQ. also, there is a connection to a peak meter off the blue side of the AGC. The EQ then goes to the red connectors of the APS Compressor.. From the blue side of the compressor it goes to epilog recL/relR ? also after the compressor there is a peak meter out there. Then something goes to the xrouting? I'm trying my best to understand how to program this thing. It's very powerful and great.. just a little confusing at first. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, masa

Dec 12, 2003, 02:59 PM	#12
Daniel Drummond DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 1,137 Rep Power: 0	Yep, you got it. Just experiment with it. It won't hurt. If you mess with the dsp window you can always re-initialize it and have it just like when you installed the driver. So, no big deal. Do it and see what you get. __________________ www.palcomp3.com.br/ed

Dec 12, 2003, 03:09 PM	#13
masa DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Fresno, California, USA. Posts: 15 Rep Power: 0	I'm trying to see how it works, but none of my VU meters in the chain works when I set it up like that. There is something I am doing wrong. I have been trying to play with it for the last week and can't get it to do what I need it to do. Any help would be appreciated very much. Thanks, masa

Dec 12, 2003, 03:20 PM	#14
masa DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Fresno, California, USA. Posts: 15 Rep Power: 0	oh, what should the mixer settings be set at? Should AC97 be set to LineIn? I get confused with where these correspond with the DSP setup. Just so you understand what I'm doing, is that I am NOT using the WAVE device on my card. I am using the line in, and then the output of the card to monitors. I want it to be an audio processor. It won't play any audio from the WAVE itself. So if I could remove some of the translations, or something, maybe I wouldn't be so confused. Where does the FX bus fit into any of this (if at all)? Should the translations be before or after microcode, or don't care? Last edited by masa; Dec 12, 2003 at 03:36 PM.

Dec 12, 2003, 04:24 PM	#15
Daniel Drummond DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 1,137 Rep Power: 0	Ok, explain me exactly all you want to achieve with this card and I'll help you out. __________________ www.palcomp3.com.br/ed

Dec 12, 2003, 04:40 PM	#16
masa DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Fresno, California, USA. Posts: 15 Rep Power: 0	Hmm.. Okay, here is what I want to do. I have audio from my console, we'll call it RECORD OUT. This RECORD OUT on the console is going to come in to the 10k1 card through the LINE IN port on the back of the card. from the back of the card, the Front L/R will go back out to the board on what's called an EXT INPUT. What I would like to have happen is: As the audio comes OUT of the board and goes into the 10k1, it is processed by kX in the effects modules I listed above. Along with the the audio going back out of the card, a piece of software will be running to capture the live sound coming in. I want the software to pick up the processed audio. So the card will be "recording" this live audio, and will be sending it back out it's output. The processing chain I listed above has the PEAK Meters so that I could monitor the data as it goes through the chain. I hope my description is easy to understand. I know what I want to do with it, I just don't know how to lay it out in the DSP. If you need, I will include current DSP window so you get a better understanding. http://www.misproductions.com/temp/dsprouter.jpg This is the current configuration for using it as playback during processing. Pre-Input meter is the program output AGC Meter is the audio level after the GainHQ/AGC Final Out is the last meter before going out to the output of the card. I want that Pre-Input to be the meter for the RAW Line in. AGC Meter for the level after the GainHQ/AGC effect applied to Line In audio Then the final out is like the final meter showing the final audio input before it goes to the recording software.

Dec 13, 2003, 11:06 AM	#17
kokoon DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: slovenia Posts: 269 Rep Power: 0	you said you'll only be using you soundcard for effect chain on the line-in, so it would be alot easier to start with a clean dsp. then just add prolog and epilog. http://193.77.148.121/kx/masa1.jpg attach a peak meter to the first two pins of the prolog (ac97 in). then open your mixer and enable the ac97 input (should not be muted). if you set the level around +-0db, some noise should be visible on the peak meter. http://193.77.148.121/kx/masa2.jpg to see/hear if everything works ok for now, connect the ac97-in from prolog to the appropriate output on epilog. probably you're connecting to analogue front-out. after this, you should be hearing the signal on soundcard's front-out. http://193.77.148.121/kx/masa3.jpg now just set up the effect chain you need. put it between the prolog and epilog instead of the direct connection shown in the previous picture. you can tweak all the effects and you can hear the result in realtime. http://193.77.148.121/kx/masa4.jpg ok, now the recording. simply connect the signal from the chain to the recL and recR on the epilog (pins 32 and 33 on my soundcard). if you want, you can add another gain inbetween and another peak meter to set the optimal output level. http://193.77.148.121/kx/masa5.jpg after this just configure your sound recording application to record from the good old "kX Wave CT4760 10k1 [c800] 0/1" Wave In device. __________________ [kokoon]

Dec 13, 2003, 10:35 PM	#18
masa DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Fresno, California, USA. Posts: 15 Rep Power: 0	Thanks for the reply! I set them according to what you had said, and am wondering what the translations should be, before, after, or don't care. Also, when I set it up this way, I feel like I'm getting kind of like an echoish feedback on the processed recorded audio. It does not sound like that on the front outs. just the final output of the recorded audio. What mixer settings should I be changing for the record level? I've been trying to play around with it and got different unwanted effects. I also have come to find out that the AGC module I was using doesn't work anymore. It just freezes up kxmixer. it worked fine in 34, but not 36. Any help would be appreciated very much. Thanks for the help, masa

Dec 14, 2003, 12:08 AM	#19
kokoon DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: slovenia Posts: 269 Rep Power: 0	i recommend you getting rid of the old version. get the new, 36 version. also forget about the agc, set your levels manualy. also un-check "advanced options" in the dsp context menu. you dont have to bother with the plugins translation position. on the feedback: make sure only "ac97" is checked for recording (in the mixer). __________________ [kokoon]