Req: Real "True" Delay around 222 ms

SUN · Dec 16, 2004, 09:26 PM

Hi KX users,

i'm new to this Forum but an Oldie in Using this superb (Best) Driver-Software 4 the LIVE!-EMU!!! DOT

4 a long time i don't realize the power in this thin like hair connections between the blocks ;-) in the DSP-Section...

even beware of getting a warning from the Admin's i started a new thread 4 getting a real delay with the only funktion: delay in ms around 250...

I searched this forum but some times but never found it... :-(

Is there any programmer on earth who can program this 4 me?

The Reason 4 this Delay is: I use Traktor and Winamps-DSP's + Visualizer so i get a minimum Delay around this 222 ms...

If i switch to monitor i get this delay between the 2nd Source and the Winamp-output!

Any Help?

SUN (always shine on you and me)

Use 3537 with CT4832

Lex Nahumury · Dec 18, 2004, 03:16 PM

Have a look at 'Delay old' in 'Legacy'.
It uses TRAM 14400 samples, so max delay is;
14400 * 1/48000 ~ 300msec
which should cover your needs.

/LeMury

SUN · Dec 19, 2004, 08:38 PM

Thanks LeMury,

i will give it a try but i forget to write: i need Stereo... :-(

I wish you a merry Christmas and a happy new year!

Out of a small Town between Hamburg and Berlin!

SUN

Lex Nahumury · Dec 19, 2004, 10:07 PM

>>i will give it a try but i forget to write: i need Stereo...
[color=yellow]Try using 2 delay plugins (one for each channel) first.[/color]
[color=yellow]If that solves your specific problem, it is quite easy to write[/color]
[color=yellow]a stereo version if needed.
[/color]
>>I wish you a merry Christmas and a happy new year!
[color=yellow]Thanx. [/color]
[color=yellow]Frohliche weinachten und ein guten jahresende und nues jahr auch fur dich gewunst.[/color]

[color=yellow]/LeMury[/color]

TravelRec. · Dec 20, 2004, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUN

Out of a small Town between Hamburg and Berlin!

SUN

Where exactly

?

Tiger M · Dec 20, 2004, 10:53 AM

Here you go, 222ms static stereo delay:

Code:

xtramsize 21313

input inl, inr
output outl, outr

xdelay write wrl at 0
xdelay read rdl at 10656  
xdelay write wrr at 10657
xdelay read rdr at 21313 

macs wrl, inl, 0, 0
macs wrr, inr, 0, 0
macs outl, rdl, 0, 0
macs outr, rdr, 0, 0
end

Open kX editor, copy this code after the 'guid' line. Make shure there is only one 'end' word at the end. Put a name in the 'name' line (otherwise it will just be "new"). Save it somewhere and double-click on the file. You got it in the effects menu.

SUN · Dec 20, 2004, 10:59 AM

Hello LeMury,

yes it works - if you write this in stereo => I need only the Delay-Factor Parameter to change...

P.S.: your German is good ;-)

Ach ja... TravelRec. => SH, Mölln

Lex Nahumury · Dec 20, 2004, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUN

Hello LeMury,
yes it works - if you write this in stereo => I need only the Delay-Factor Parameter to change...

[color=yellow]Good. Here you have an Adjustable stereo delay line;[/color]
[color=yellow]http://members.home.nl/nahutec/kxplugins/delay250.da[/color]
[color=yellow](right click URL and "Save Target As..")[/color]

[color=yellow]Maximum delay is ~250msec.[/color]
[color=yellow]I did not use interpolation (to smooth out the audio glitches when you adjust the delay time)[/color]
[color=yellow]because that would affect audio quality.[/color]
[color=yellow]Judging from your application you are not going to change delay time constantly anyway.[/color]

[color=yellow]I have currently no 3538 installed (just wrote it on 3534),[/color]
[color=yellow]but that should make no difference since it's pure Dane.[/color]
[color=yellow]However, if the plugin does not work or refuses to register, let me know.[/color]

[color=yellow]/LeMury[/color]

SUN · Dec 20, 2004, 02:19 PM

Thanks Tiger M.,

4 the soucecode!

Will check your code - Your tutorial get this 2 work is really easy 2 understand!

SUN

SUN · Dec 20, 2004, 02:48 PM

Hello again Le Mury,

yes, you are right - it works very well 4 my setup around 90% (250-10%=225ms)
Thanks also goes 2 Tiger M. - his code works directly without modification!

This Forum really help me 2 make my new DJiing work...

Tip 4 all DJ's (Home or OnStage):
Use Live! with 2 Stereo Outs and the new DXM06 from Numark! It's worth the money - DOT
The Reason 4 this is: You always can preview Songs!
If you switch 2 Output-Mixer - this feature is gone... :-(

SUN (always shine on you and me)

TravelRec. · Dec 21, 2004, 06:59 AM

Hi SUN!

Doch wohl eher Nähe Hamburg, wie

?
Anyway - if I understand it right, you want to preview songs and play another? What is your exact problem? I think the card can manage that fully if you use all the possible input capabilities (including the digital ins). You only need a decent external mixer to collect the different outs of the card and then you can do everything you want - have I missed something?

SUN · Dec 21, 2004, 02:36 PM

Hi TravelRec.,
stimmt - aber Lübeck ist zu unbekannt...
Yes, you missed something - better read it again...

All works fine but i think i have 2 start a new tread:

Why is the Dynamic Processor 3.1 in 3538 so slow?
It's fine to have a blend effect when starting a song but my Hard-Noisegate which works fine in 3537 now produces "bumping" or should i write ramping sound... I'll try to explain: If a solo snaredrum with hi signal and small pauses between the drumsignal is the source-signal i only hear every second snaresound... :-(

Here is the screenshot with my try(trial) and error-parameters which works fine in 3537: DP31

And here the reason 4 this noisegate: peak-57

Everytime i stop my song in traktor i get random level on the peaksignal-Window...

I can't hear it anyway...

SUN

TravelRec. · Dec 24, 2004, 09:33 AM

Hi SUN!

Na ich jedenfalls weiß, wo das Holstentor steht

!

Hmm, never tried Dynamics Processor with 3538 before - but you can try the APS-Expander as a noisegate - it works as usual really fine. Random noise with your card?! What is your selected input and what is your sound source and what is the AC97 gain in the mixer? You may start a new thread with a special question - so you´ll may get the right answer...

Frankino · Apr 4, 2005, 10:00 PM

[color=black]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMury

Good. Here you have an Adjustable stereo delay line;[/color]
[color=black]http://members.home.nl/nahutec/kxplugins/delay250.da[/color]
[color=black](right click URL and "Save Target As..")[/color]

[color=black]Maximum delay is ~250msec.[/color]
[color=black]I did not use interpolation (to smooth out the audio glitches when you adjust the delay time)[/color]
[color=black]because that would affect audio quality.[/color]
[color=black]Judging from your application you are not going to change delay time constantly anyway.[/color]

[color=black]I have currently no 3538 installed (just wrote it on 3534),[/color]
[color=black]but that should make no difference since it's pure Dane.[/color]
[color=black]However, if the plugin does not work or refuses to register, let me know.[/color]

[color=black]/LeMury

[/color]

[color=black]it seems to me it does not work properly on 3538h, it gives me an error when I try to load the plugin[/color]
[color=black]can you please take a look at it? I really need this plugin

[/color]
[color=black]by the way, I'm new to this forum, I took a look prior to posting and I thought this was the right time to start

[/color]

Tril · Apr 4, 2005, 10:42 PM

Welcome to the forum.

What is the error message? We need to know to help you.

Tril

Frankino · Apr 4, 2005, 11:31 PM

hum

I managed to get it to work, I was doing it the wrong way
I've got only a problem, if I set the delay to 0, the channel I want to delay reacts in a strange way, the lowpass shuts up and the lowpass is a lot delayed
if I det the delay to 1%, it starts to delay my channels correctly
it is not a big probleb, for zero delay I simply bypass the filter
this is my dsp setup
http://djcobra05.interfree.it/dsp.jpg

oh and by the way, is there a way to disable the auto drawing of the lines? when I draw a connection it automatically draws the others, often in the wrong way

Tril · Apr 5, 2005, 12:02 AM

Quote:

oh and by the way, is there a way to disable the auto drawing of the lines? when I draw a connection it automatically draws the others, often in the wrong way

Hold alt while drawing the line to only draw one.

Frankino · Apr 5, 2005, 12:14 AM

damn, thank you

it seems to me it works, but it is far too sensible, even a 1% delay is very noticeable and above 3-4% is completly useless for time aligning, a better increasing scale could help a lot

Chester01 · Apr 5, 2005, 12:54 AM

it would be nice if it were a milliseccond scale, not a percent scale... (change by the milliseccond

Tril · Apr 5, 2005, 05:34 AM

With the use of C++ it is possible to display the delay in ms.

Frankino · Apr 5, 2005, 11:08 AM

all I need is a better scale, ms are not a problem for me, I configure the delay using my ears

I mean, I would like to increase the scale 100% -> 20%, meaning when I set 100% on the modified plugin I set the delay that I get at 20% with the old plugin
anyone could do this please? I'm really not skilled in programming

Russ · Apr 5, 2005, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankino

all I need is a better scale, ms are not a problem for me, I configure the delay using my ears

I mean, I would like to increase the scale 100% -> 20%, meaning when I set 100% on the modified plugin I set the delay that I get at 20% with the old plugin
anyone could do this please? I'm really not skilled in programming

Modify the code to reduce the max delay.
20% of 250ms = 50ms.
50ms * 48 (.050 * 48000) = 2400 samples = 0x960 (multiplied by 2 for stereo = 0x12C0)

So the changes would be:

xtramsize 0x000012C0; (max delay 50ms per channel)

const dt = 0x004AF000; ((2399 - 1) * 0x800)

xdelay write d1 at 0x00000960;
xdelay read d3 at 0x00000960;

I think that will do what you want.

-Russ

BTW: I am not completely sure why the original code used a value of 0x176F000 for dt instead of 0x176F800 ((d1 - d0 - 1) * 0x800). Maybe it is to protect against a rounding error that might cause the calculated read addresses to be out of the TRAM's address space? In any case, the above changes should be consistant with the original code.

Frankino · Apr 6, 2005, 12:06 AM

Thank you very much, with your hints I modified the plugin to allow a maximum delay of 5msec, far enough to allow me to align perfectly the speaker emission
if anyone is interested, here is the whole plugin code

xtramsize 0x1E0;
output outL, outR;
input inL, inR;
control Delay=0.2;
const dt = 0x77000;
xdelay write d0 at 0x0;
xdelay write d1 at 0xF0;
xdelay read d2 at 0x0;
xdelay read d3 at 0xF0;
macs d0, inL, 0, 0;
macs d1, inR, 0, 0;
macs outL, d2, 0, 0;
macs outR, d3, 0, 0;
macs &d2, &d0, dt, Delay;
macs &d3, &d1, dt, Delay;

I use a delay at the default value (20%) for each channel and adjust manually according to my ears

thank you again

Russ · Apr 6, 2005, 12:46 AM

Your welcome, glad I could help

Chester01 · Apr 6, 2005, 01:25 AM

so each percent is 1/20 of a milliseccond?

or enough time to make a 20khz pulse 360 degrees out of phase

Edit:that would mean two percent would be 180 degrees out of phase for 20khz

I tested the Delay250 plugin by loading two instances, setting both at 100% (giving me a 1/2 sec delay) and running a 1 hz tone through it, this should invert the phase by 180 degrees, then sending it into a mono mix SHOULD cancel it out (get 0 signal) however this is not the case, it brings the leved won between -20 db and -38 i believe. It is pretty good but not perfect

Frankino · Apr 6, 2005, 07:01 PM

interesting
I really don't know what you are talking about but I trust you

EDIT
well, I'm underestimating myself a little bit, i do know what you are talking about but I never thought to check something like this

Chester01 · Apr 6, 2005, 10:25 PM

for those who dont understand: I inverted the phase of a 1 hz tone (one cycle per sec) by 180 degrees by delaying it by half a sec. in a perfect world (or by using the phase plugin) adding the original signal and the processed one together would produce nothing (the two would cancel one another out.) however this does not work on this plugin which tells us that there is some flaw somewhere in it.

Russ · Apr 7, 2005, 03:26 AM

There are a lot of factors in there that could affect a test like that.
That plugin uses a delay of 11998 samples (as opposed to 12000), so it is not exactly 250ms.
TRAM is 16 bits (compressed down from 20 bits I think), so you are losing some accuracy there.
I am not sure what you used to generate the 1hz tone, can we be positive that is is dead on accurate?
When you are using a delay to invert a signal like that (based on time alone), all these things would have an affect, and it will not completely cancel out, unless everything involved is dead on accurate.

TRAM is a nice feature for easy creation of delay lines, etc, but I do not think it is intended for use where that type of accuracy is wanted (it is close enough to sound good for a delay or reverb, etc, but it is probably not gonna pass tests such as yours).

Chester01 · Apr 7, 2005, 04:17 AM

would it work to change it to 12000 instead of 11998?

Russ · Apr 7, 2005, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chester01

would it work to change it to 12000 instead of 11998?

I doubt it (even if you could eliminate all the other factors), because you still have the issue with using TRAM (16 bit -vs- 32 bit). So the signals are no longer identical (and they will only cancel out completly if they are identical (with the exception of phase)).

Dec 16, 2004, 09:26 PM	#1
SUN DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Made in Germany Posts: 50 Rep Power: 0	Req: Real "True" Delay around 222 ms Hi KX users, i'm new to this Forum but an Oldie in Using this superb (Best) Driver-Software 4 the LIVE!-EMU!!! DOT 4 a long time i don't realize the power in this thin like hair connections between the blocks ;-) in the DSP-Section... even beware of getting a warning from the Admin's i started a new thread 4 getting a real delay with the only funktion: delay in ms around 250... I searched this forum but some times but never found it... :-( Is there any programmer on earth who can program this 4 me? The Reason 4 this Delay is: I use Traktor and Winamps-DSP's + Visualizer so i get a minimum Delay around this 222 ms... If i switch to monitor i get this delay between the 2nd Source and the Winamp-output! Any Help? SUN (always shine on you and me) Use 3537 with CT4832 Last edited by SUN; Dec 16, 2004 at 09:32 PM.

Dec 20, 2004, 10:53 AM	#6
Tiger M kX user Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 851 Rep Power: 0	Here you go, 222ms static stereo delay: Code: xtramsize 21313 input inl, inr output outl, outr xdelay write wrl at 0 xdelay read rdl at 10656 xdelay write wrr at 10657 xdelay read rdr at 21313 macs wrl, inl, 0, 0 macs wrr, inr, 0, 0 macs outl, rdl, 0, 0 macs outr, rdr, 0, 0 end Open kX editor, copy this code after the 'guid' line. Make shure there is only one 'end' word at the end. Put a name in the 'name' line (otherwise it will just be "new"). Save it somewhere and double-click on the file. You got it in the effects menu. __________________ Miss you, Steve...

Dec 21, 2004, 06:59 AM	#11
TravelRec. Alternative Audioproductions Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Germany / Sachsen-Anhalt Posts: 1,710 Rep Power: 0	Hi SUN! Doch wohl eher Nähe Hamburg, wie ? Anyway - if I understand it right, you want to preview songs and play another? What is your exact problem? I think the card can manage that fully if you use all the possible input capabilities (including the digital ins). You only need a decent external mixer to collect the different outs of the card and then you can do everything you want - have I missed something? __________________ Always take a look behind.

Dec 21, 2004, 02:36 PM	Thread Starter #12
SUN DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Made in Germany Posts: 50 Rep Power: 0	Hi TravelRec., stimmt - aber Lübeck ist zu unbekannt... Yes, you missed something - better read it again... All works fine but i think i have 2 start a new tread: Why is the Dynamic Processor 3.1 in 3538 so slow? It's fine to have a blend effect when starting a song but my Hard-Noisegate which works fine in 3537 now produces "bumping" or should i write ramping sound... I'll try to explain: If a solo snaredrum with hi signal and small pauses between the drumsignal is the source-signal i only hear every second snaresound... :-( Here is the screenshot with my try(trial) and error-parameters which works fine in 3537: DP31 And here the reason 4 this noisegate: peak-57 Everytime i stop my song in traktor i get random level on the peaksignal-Window... I can't hear it anyway... SUN Last edited by SUN; Dec 21, 2004 at 03:58 PM.

Dec 24, 2004, 09:33 AM	#13
TravelRec. Alternative Audioproductions Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Germany / Sachsen-Anhalt Posts: 1,710 Rep Power: 0	Hi SUN! Na ich jedenfalls weiß, wo das Holstentor steht ! Hmm, never tried Dynamics Processor with 3538 before - but you can try the APS-Expander as a noisegate - it works as usual really fine. Random noise with your card?! What is your selected input and what is your sound source and what is the AC97 gain in the mixer? You may start a new thread with a special question - so you´ll may get the right answer... __________________ Always take a look behind.

Dec 18, 2004, 03:16 PM	#2
Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,932 Rep Power: 64	Have a look at 'Delay old' in 'Legacy'. It uses TRAM 14400 samples, so max delay is; 14400 * 1/48000 ~ 300msec which should cover your needs. /LeMury

Dec 19, 2004, 08:38 PM	Thread Starter #3
SUN DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Made in Germany Posts: 50 Rep Power: 0	Thanks LeMury, i will give it a try but i forget to write: i need Stereo... :-( I wish you a merry Christmas and a happy new year! Out of a small Town between Hamburg and Berlin! SUN

Dec 19, 2004, 10:07 PM	#4
Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,932 Rep Power: 64	>>i will give it a try but i forget to write: i need Stereo... [color=yellow]Try using 2 delay plugins (one for each channel) first.[/color] [color=yellow]If that solves your specific problem, it is quite easy to write[/color] [color=yellow]a stereo version if needed. [/color] >>I wish you a merry Christmas and a happy new year! [color=yellow]Thanx. [/color] [color=yellow]Frohliche weinachten und ein guten jahresende und nues jahr auch fur dich gewunst.[/color] [color=yellow]/LeMury[/color]

Dec 20, 2004, 10:59 AM	Thread Starter #7
SUN DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Made in Germany Posts: 50 Rep Power: 0	Hello LeMury, yes it works - if you write this in stereo => I need only the Delay-Factor Parameter to change... P.S.: your German is good ;-) Ach ja... TravelRec. => SH, Mölln

Dec 20, 2004, 02:19 PM	Thread Starter #9
SUN DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Made in Germany Posts: 50 Rep Power: 0	Thanks Tiger M., 4 the soucecode! Will check your code - Your tutorial get this 2 work is really easy 2 understand! SUN

Dec 20, 2004, 02:48 PM	Thread Starter #10
SUN DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Made in Germany Posts: 50 Rep Power: 0	Hello again Le Mury, yes, you are right - it works very well 4 my setup around 90% (250-10%=225ms) Thanks also goes 2 Tiger M. - his code works directly without modification! This Forum really help me 2 make my new DJiing work... Tip 4 all DJ's (Home or OnStage): Use Live! with 2 Stereo Outs and the new DXM06 from Numark! It's worth the money - DOT The Reason 4 this is: You always can preview Songs! If you switch 2 Output-Mixer - this feature is gone... :-( SUN (always shine on you and me)

Apr 4, 2005, 10:42 PM	#15
Tril S-3D enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,676 Rep Power: 64 System Specs	Welcome to the forum. What is the error message? We need to know to help you. Tril

Apr 4, 2005, 11:31 PM	#16
Frankino DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 11 Rep Power: 0	hum I managed to get it to work, I was doing it the wrong way I've got only a problem, if I set the delay to 0, the channel I want to delay reacts in a strange way, the lowpass shuts up and the lowpass is a lot delayed if I det the delay to 1%, it starts to delay my channels correctly it is not a big probleb, for zero delay I simply bypass the filter this is my dsp setup http://djcobra05.interfree.it/dsp.jpg oh and by the way, is there a way to disable the auto drawing of the lines? when I draw a connection it automatically draws the others, often in the wrong way Last edited by Frankino; Apr 4, 2005 at 11:40 PM.

Apr 5, 2005, 12:14 AM	#18
Frankino DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 11 Rep Power: 0	damn, thank you it seems to me it works, but it is far too sensible, even a 1% delay is very noticeable and above 3-4% is completly useless for time aligning, a better increasing scale could help a lot

Apr 5, 2005, 12:54 AM	#19
Chester01 HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: St. Cloud, MN Posts: 492 Rep Power: 0	it would be nice if it were a milliseccond scale, not a percent scale... (change by the milliseccond __________________ COMP: Dual Intel PIII 733 Mhz; GeForce 4 Ti 4600; 1.128 Gb RAM; SB0350 (Audigy 2 ZS Platnium) STEREO(I UPGRADED):Crown Audio K1 and K2 amplifiers (4000 watts at .1% THD ), JL 13w7 Subwoofer (6.5 CF) (2) 18" PR's, Klipsch SB-1's, some cement blocks for speaker stands...

Apr 5, 2005, 05:34 AM	#20
Tril S-3D enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,676 Rep Power: 64 System Specs	With the use of C++ it is possible to display the delay in ms.

Apr 5, 2005, 11:08 AM	#21
Frankino DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 11 Rep Power: 0	all I need is a better scale, ms are not a problem for me, I configure the delay using my ears I mean, I would like to increase the scale 100% -> 20%, meaning when I set 100% on the modified plugin I set the delay that I get at 20% with the old plugin anyone could do this please? I'm really not skilled in programming Last edited by Frankino; Apr 5, 2005 at 11:31 AM.

Apr 6, 2005, 12:06 AM	#23
Frankino DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 11 Rep Power: 0	Thank you very much, with your hints I modified the plugin to allow a maximum delay of 5msec, far enough to allow me to align perfectly the speaker emission if anyone is interested, here is the whole plugin code xtramsize 0x1E0; output outL, outR; input inL, inR; control Delay=0.2; const dt = 0x77000; xdelay write d0 at 0x0; xdelay write d1 at 0xF0; xdelay read d2 at 0x0; xdelay read d3 at 0xF0; macs d0, inL, 0, 0; macs d1, inR, 0, 0; macs outL, d2, 0, 0; macs outR, d3, 0, 0; macs &d2, &d0, dt, Delay; macs &d3, &d1, dt, Delay; I use a delay at the default value (20%) for each channel and adjust manually according to my ears thank you again

Apr 6, 2005, 12:46 AM	#24
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,561 Rep Power: 62	Your welcome, glad I could help

Apr 6, 2005, 01:25 AM	#25
Chester01 HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: St. Cloud, MN Posts: 492 Rep Power: 0	so each percent is 1/20 of a milliseccond? or enough time to make a 20khz pulse 360 degrees out of phase Edit:that would mean two percent would be 180 degrees out of phase for 20khz I tested the Delay250 plugin by loading two instances, setting both at 100% (giving me a 1/2 sec delay) and running a 1 hz tone through it, this should invert the phase by 180 degrees, then sending it into a mono mix SHOULD cancel it out (get 0 signal) however this is not the case, it brings the leved won between -20 db and -38 i believe. It is pretty good but not perfect __________________ COMP: Dual Intel PIII 733 Mhz; GeForce 4 Ti 4600; 1.128 Gb RAM; SB0350 (Audigy 2 ZS Platnium) STEREO(I UPGRADED):Crown Audio K1 and K2 amplifiers (4000 watts at .1% THD ), JL 13w7 Subwoofer (6.5 CF) (2) 18" PR's, Klipsch SB-1's, some cement blocks for speaker stands... Last edited by Chester01; Apr 6, 2005 at 02:33 AM.

Apr 6, 2005, 07:01 PM	#26
Frankino DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 11 Rep Power: 0	interesting I really don't know what you are talking about but I trust you EDIT well, I'm underestimating myself a little bit, i do know what you are talking about but I never thought to check something like this

Apr 6, 2005, 10:25 PM	#27
Chester01 HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: St. Cloud, MN Posts: 492 Rep Power: 0	for those who dont understand: I inverted the phase of a 1 hz tone (one cycle per sec) by 180 degrees by delaying it by half a sec. in a perfect world (or by using the phase plugin) adding the original signal and the processed one together would produce nothing (the two would cancel one another out.) however this does not work on this plugin which tells us that there is some flaw somewhere in it. __________________ COMP: Dual Intel PIII 733 Mhz; GeForce 4 Ti 4600; 1.128 Gb RAM; SB0350 (Audigy 2 ZS Platnium) STEREO(I UPGRADED):Crown Audio K1 and K2 amplifiers (4000 watts at .1% THD ), JL 13w7 Subwoofer (6.5 CF) (2) 18" PR's, Klipsch SB-1's, some cement blocks for speaker stands...

Apr 7, 2005, 03:26 AM	#28
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,561 Rep Power: 62	There are a lot of factors in there that could affect a test like that. That plugin uses a delay of 11998 samples (as opposed to 12000), so it is not exactly 250ms. TRAM is 16 bits (compressed down from 20 bits I think), so you are losing some accuracy there. I am not sure what you used to generate the 1hz tone, can we be positive that is is dead on accurate? When you are using a delay to invert a signal like that (based on time alone), all these things would have an affect, and it will not completely cancel out, unless everything involved is dead on accurate. TRAM is a nice feature for easy creation of delay lines, etc, but I do not think it is intended for use where that type of accuracy is wanted (it is close enough to sound good for a delay or reverb, etc, but it is probably not gonna pass tests such as yours).

Apr 7, 2005, 04:17 AM	#29
Chester01 HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: St. Cloud, MN Posts: 492 Rep Power: 0	would it work to change it to 12000 instead of 11998? __________________ COMP: Dual Intel PIII 733 Mhz; GeForce 4 Ti 4600; 1.128 Gb RAM; SB0350 (Audigy 2 ZS Platnium) STEREO(I UPGRADED):Crown Audio K1 and K2 amplifiers (4000 watts at .1% THD ), JL 13w7 Subwoofer (6.5 CF) (2) 18" PR's, Klipsch SB-1's, some cement blocks for speaker stands...