LeewardRail

THE CONFIGURATION:

Usuing KX Version: 5, 10, 00, 3537 - debug
Compiled: Feb 17 2004 00:46:58
on a SBLive Value CT4670 10k1 c800
with Guitar Tracks Pro Demo

I initialize the DSP and set it up with the Wave Generator 3.0 output going to theProFX ASIO plugin to feed tone to all the asio outputs (as shown on LeMury's Page) and everything works fine.

http://members.home.nl/nahutec/kxtut...kxcubasesx.htm

The Channels end up as follows
ASIO 0/1 ---> Stereo 14 Left/Right
ASIO 2/3 ---> Stereo 0 Left/Right
ASIO 4/5 ---> Stereo 2 Left/Right
ASIO 6/7 ---> Stereo 4 Left/Right
ASIO 8/9 ---> Stereo 6 Left/Right
ASIO 10/11 ---> Stereo 8 Left/Right
ASIO 12/13 ---> Stereo 10 Left/Right
ASIO 14/15 ---> Stereo 12 Left/Right

(not sure why they don't map 0/1-> Stereo 0 L/R etc. but it's doesn't matter really.)

THE PROBLEM:

When I simply add the ProFX k1lt (10k1 Epilog Lite) plugin..... without connecting it to anything........ the output from asio 1 and asio 2 disappears.

Is this what the plugin is expected to do ?
Is this repeatable for other users ? Is this a bug ?



the k1lt plugin is the following version:
name "k1lt";
copyright "Copyright (c) LeMury, 2003-2004. All rights reserved.";
engine "kX";
created "11/04/2003";
comment "10k1 'Epilog Lite' v1.3 Output Selector(No ASIO); $nobypass";



Regards,
Roy

dj_stick

this is to do with the ASIO mapping issue on the 5.1 10k1 boards

__________________

Lex Nahumury

Yes. As dj already mentioned, this is because of the asio mapping issue.
In doubt, you can always verify this by using Epilog instead of [k1lt+Asio],
and wire the DSP accordingly.
You'll find 2 asio recording outputs missing (non-functional) too.

/LeMury

LeewardRail

Thank you for your help.

LeMury: The fact that the mapping didn't match exactly that shown on your Kx/Cubase setup page made me unsure if that was the same problem.
BTW: The ProFX plugins are great. I looking forward to 38 stable to try the new mixer.

The issues page didn't mention the CT4670... is that card also named SB006x / SB010x ?

Thanks again for your great work.
Roy

Lex Nahumury

Yes, the 'mapping issue' is not constant for all affected cards and can also (worse case)
shift randomly during restarts/voice (de)allocation.
The latter is reported by users but I have never experienced it myself.

Yes, quite possible. I don't know all the card names<->numbers out of memory.
Most 10k1 based 5.1 type cards are affected afaik.

/LeMury

Turin

Similar behaviour here. SBLive 4760.
With standard epilog or without any I got all 16 ASIO inputs working (verified with cubase). when k1lt loaded inputs get shifted, disabled, routed twice etc..
So there is some problem with k1lt that doesn't manifest in standard epilog.

Lex Nahumury

Not in k1lt. You probably mean the 'Asio' plugin.
Anyway;
Yes, as I mentioned many times before, the 'Asio' plugin does not detect
and deal with 'issue cards' as well as Epilog does.
It works fine for most cards, but in your particulair case you best stick with Epilog.

/LeMury

Turin

strangely, the ASIO plugin does work, wich can be seen and recorded in cubase, until you load k1lt. Thats what I was trtying to point out. Anyway, I'm happy with Src's + epilog combo, It looks clear enough for me .

Lex Nahumury

Not strange really. Epilog always initializes entire 'kx outs' when it loads.
So does k1lt+Asio.
Using 'Asio' without 'k1lt' gives unpredictable/invalid output behaviour but then again;
it was never meant to be used that way .

BTW Turin;
You say you've got an 10k1/5.1 based card with all 16 ASIO inputs working on Epilog.
Could you post or PM me a dump of your Epilog's microcode in default DSP setup.
(right-click on Epilog ->Edit, and copy the microcode text)

If your info and bevindings are correct, I could write a custom 'Asio' plugin for your card.

/LeMury

Turin

Just tested it again, this time one by one . In standard epilog plugin asio 12/13 is double routed to 0/1. You were right , they only seemed to work fine . Hower I would be very grateful If you could make me an asio organized the same way as in the epilog. You can even get rid of that 12/13 pair.. I doubt I would ever go past 6 stereo inputs anyway.

Lex Nahumury

Yes, that's what I expected.
All 10k1/5.1 cards seem to be affected regardless of un-intentionaly false user reports.
Thanks for the rectification and the microcode dump.

(Let me know the results of the custom asio.kxl)

/LeMury

Turin

Hi LeMury, thanks for the plugin!
I registered it, but unfortunately it gives similar results, i.e. 2 inputs don't work, the rest is shifted forward by 2 ( 14/15 -> 0/1). I reloaded cubase and again tested the standard epilog, to found that realy all 16 inputs work. they are only shifted (14/15 is 0/1, 0/1 is 1/2 and so on). I suppose my card is not a 5.1. It has gold plated ports. I bought it second hand and I suspect it was once a part of a Live Platinum set. (it has gold plated ports).
BTW I can't recall such asio shift in pre 3538 epilog

BODYPRINT

I can confirm that the Card is from the Live Platinum and is not a Live 5.1 card.
I bought one and then bought a seperate Live 5.1 later.
I still have the Gold plated Live card in my second computer.

I had the same problem with my 5.1 when I had it and the problem did shift every now and then.
I just avoided the first few ASIO inputs. There are plenty left over :-)

Lex Nahumury

That's quite some random behaviour you report using Epilog;
-firts they all work with no shift,
-then 2 are copied
-and now all work again but shifted??

No, you definatly have an 'issue card' otherwise the shifts wouldn't occure with Epilog.
Also note that the 'asio mapping issue' does not have to produce a constant behaviour.
Users have reported random mappings and shifts after;
-reboots
- x number of ASIO start/stop cycles

I'm afraid there is not much we can do about it.

/LeMury

FYI; when you test those ASIO inputs, beware of some pitfalls
most users don't take into account.
Connecting/disconnecting DSP microcode and/or not flushing ASIO Input buffers can easily
lead to false observations.
Classic example is; ASIO recording continues recording even when epilog is removed.
Same as; wav playback continues even when fxbus is removed.

Turin

I sorted it out finally. Epilog issues were caused by swapping Epilog with k1lt + asio without exiting cubase. Now it behaves quite stable. That shift is still there. I didnt noticed it initially as I just put one Src through all inputs to test them.
Until recently I've been using only one mono input for my guitar
Now I'm having fun with some more

Lex Nahumury

Yep, that was exactly what I meant with 'pitfalls' in my previous post.
Tthx for reporting back.

/LeMury

wunden

I seem to have a similar setup as turin, also with a ct4760 in connection with a live drive. I also noted erratic shifts in asio mapping, sometimes all 16 channels are accesible, sometimes some are routed to others and so on.
But I also notice another thing which really seemed quite strange to me: Even if I don't change anything in my dsp settings, the asio mapping in Cubase SX is different from the one Kristal. Is there something I am doing wrong or are the "issue cards" just completely unpredictable?
If so (as I suspect by now), could anybody recommend a procedure for recording in the following environment: I want to use Kristal to record up to eight different inputs (from the direct outs of a hardware mixer). I have got two stereo line-ins (on the ct4769 and on a second card) and the aux and line-in from the live drive.
Im looking for a way to wire my dsp so that the amount of "trial and error" testing of inputs is minimized.
May be someone out there is working with a similar setup. Any help is appreciated.

Russ

That is a common thing with the issue cards. Different programs may use different mappings. I found most often that when the inputs are off, they are shifted by 2. ProFx Asio takes this into account, so I find that some apps work best with epilog, while other's work best with ProFx Asio. Using one or the other I can often get the Asio mapping 1 to 1 with kX (just try not to make any changes while Asio is in use, or you may get random shifts,etc). Also be aware that Asio 1 and 2 are not used (with these cards) on epilog (so I am not sure how you could have all 16 working) even though they are included as inputs. Generally you only have to do the mapping once, and so long as you do not make changes while it is in use (i.e. make sure you close your Asio host before loading/unloading any kX plugins that may affect Asio, or change any KX settings that effect Asio, etc), the mappings will be the same the next time you use the program (provided that your are using they same kX configuration (as far as Asio goes anyway)).

Tril

For thesting asio0 to asio15, I suggest using a test signal like a sine wave or white noise with the Wave Generator. Use 16 Vol plugins. Connect the same pin from the Wave Generator to the 16 Vol plugins. Adjust all the Vol plugins to different values in increasing or decreasing values.

Vol connect to :
asio0 = 100%
asio1 = 95%
asio2 = 90%
asio3 = 85%
asio4 = 80%
asio5 = 75%
asio6 = 70%
asio7 = 65%
asio8 = 60%
asio9 = 55%
asio10 = 50%
asio11 = 45%
asio12 = 40%
asio13 = 35%
asio14 = 30%
asio15 = 25%

Connect each one of the Vol plugins to one asio on prolog.

You should probably save that DSP "ASIO TEST" or something because it's a bit long to make. After that simply load the asio channels and look at the level of each of them. If they are in the correct order, the levels will be in decreasing orders. If you load one that has the mapping issue you'll notice that it not only shuts of one input, it also move around the others. You'll easily find out which asio inputs gives you problems.