NEW: ProFx (3538) Update Incl. MX6 and AC97

cbjaust

Yes I am sure...see below,

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I added two user presets and they are listed below the built-in presets with a separator in between.

Russ

I see... I guess it is only an (minor) issue for 10k2 cards (k2lt), as it shows up correctly for me (10k1 card/k1lt).

i.e.
Picture

Maddogg6

Confirmed - its correct on my live - and wrong on my A2.

Lex Nahumury

Yep, confirmed ,for 10k2 only.
Thanks for reporting this!

/Lex

cbjaust

No Worries! Still great Plug ins, thanks again.

Maddogg6

It seems theres a bug with DOO in KXlt in ProFx for 3538L (the version I installed seperate from KX, and Im not sure about the version that does come with KX)
It may be card model specific - as I have the same model (CT4832 - a SBLive 'OEM' (4.0) ) as the person posted here:
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/general-discussion/119117-cant-turn-off-digital-output-only-wont-toggle.html

In summary.
DOO doesnt turn off analog output if I use KXLt - but if I use Epilog - it does

netguy

thanks!

Lex Nahumury

I've read that thread, but the 2 OPs eddie173 and stuff-x (both 1 time posters who havent even responded back yet) seem to experience a "stuck DOO toggle" leaving them with MUTED analog output.
That's something totaly different then the question wether or not ProFX KXLT's DOO switch behaves exactly the same as KXMIXER+EPILOG.
BTW: It still remains unclear to me if the OPs refer to ProFx KXLT or default kX setup or both.

That is not entirely correct.
On 10k1 CL cards, KXLT's DOO will (should) mute all relevant AC97 output signals in order to enable what kX calls “Digital Output Only” mode (Read: kX Help-> kX Signal Flow Diagram) which btw is a 'gimmick' IMO.
'ANALOG REAR OUT' is indeed not muted because it is not on AC97 device but is a seprated Codec. I see no reason to mute it like Epilog does.

So yes (as mentioned before);
KXLT's DOO switch does not behave exactly the same as KXMIXER+EPILOG but as long as all available outputs (digital or/and analog) work properly I don't see any problem.

Cheers,

/Lex.

Maddogg6

Ahh - ok - me and russ (well, ok, Russ..) concluded different ac97 registers where changing with kxlt compared to epilog - but to be honest - I didnt know what to make of all out testing we did (he guided me - I made a batch file to spit out all the ac97 registers and I sent them to him with my observations)

Whats weird is that no mention of an additional codec is found in my help about for that card.

It must be another register muting the rear analog out...

Well, its not a big problem for me as I prefer epilog for ease of using MM keys for volume/mute.. but whats weird is that even epilog stops working if I change the DSP but keep the same epilog as the default. (So we concurred it was a KX thing and not only profx - but if its known to not mute the rear - its not a bug.. But its good to know.)

Then it *seems* after I read the ac97 registers - it will start working - but I would have to do more tests to confirm this.

Thanks lex.

Lex Nahumury

Well, things are a bit complicated.
DOO mode has everything to do with 10k1 cards using their AC97 device for both
analog input and analog output.
This can cause a feedback path between ac97 ins/outs in certain ac97 mixer configs.
DOO is to prevent this situation and thus switches quite a few ac97 registers.
If then, for some external reason , ac97 device registers settings are altered,
weird stuff can happen.

10k2 cards don't suffer from this because their ac97 device is only used for input,
hence they have no 'DOO toggle' to mess with.

No, rear out uses a seperate (non AC97) I2S Codec which IIRC is not mapped in addresspace
so the muting is probably done in Epilog microcode.

Cheers,

/Lex

Russ

How can that be? If both analog rear and digital rear use KX_OUT (0x8) and KX_OUT(0x9), then if you mute one (in microcode), then both would be muted. In any case, we did look at epilog's registers to check for such things, and did not see any difference with DOO On/Off.

As for the other testing we did, we really did not reach any conclusion, as we could not figure it out. I did not see any problems with kxlt, and I kind of thought that it was a kX bug (I figure the DOO switch should take care of everything at the hardware level, and as such, all a plugin should have to do is toggle that switch (plus the fact that it happens with epilog under some configurations). We could not figure out what register is used to mute analog rear, and as such, we could not track down the cause of the problem (or verify anything). In any case, I do not think that kxlt has anything to do with it (but of course I cannot be sure).

Lex Nahumury

Hmm, yes good point!
If your bevindings are correct then there is a way to access(or at least mute) that codec.
I'll have a look at the Real Time OS driver code I wrote a while ago for 10k1 cards.
I know I utilized that Analog Rear Output but can't remember/recall any specific initialization sequence/details.

/Lex.

Russ

Is it possible that it does not mute it in the codec, but instead disables that slot in the Emu10k1 registers (register 5f)? or would that disable digital rear as well?

@Maddogg6, if you have a chance, you might take a look at that register with DOO On/Off (when it is working correctly) and see if the value changes. The console command would be:
gptr 5f 0 <enter>

Maddogg6

its always 0 (zero) - with DOO on/off - when doo works and mutes the physical analog rear.

Russ

Ahh, ok, maybe that register is only used on 5.1 models or something. It was just a thought.

dawkorn

Hello Lex,

Ive now been using KX drivers for "years" and I have created alot of various .kx files for the different kinds of routing I use. On my music production presets, I usually come pretty close to using up all the GPR registers.

I just discovered that: If i use a particularly "heavy" .kx dsp scheme with just the UFX plugins additionally added, the preset works fine, including all the elements Ive added.

When I install 3.08L, I get untranslated elements and "No more Free GPR Registers".

Is this expected, and is it basically saying that 3.08 uses a bit more GPR registers then the generic profx included with 3538L?

If so, would there be a way to get the current 3.08 version to use the same amount of gpr registers as the default (3538l version) to solve this problem?

dawkorn

Lex Nahumury

Hi dawkorn,
>>..with just the UFX plugins additionally added..
You probably mean ProFx 3.x instead of UFX(Max's Plugins).

Yes, (on top of my head), it's possible that some of the plugins in latest ProFx release use slightly more DSP resources for compatibilty or whatever plausible reason.

It can't be much, although 2 extra GPR register is enough to tilt any 'max_gpr-1 based' DSP-setup ofcourse

btw: Which ProFx plugins do you use/refer to in your dsp setups?

dawkorn

Lex,

I use 1 MX6 and numerous SRC

thanks for your previous reply!

dawkorn

Lex Nahumury

Ah,..In that case it's ProFx's MX6. (which uses more GPRs than the bundled MX6 version)

thomasabarnes

Hiya LeMury!!!!

Just have to express my thanks to you, man. Thanks for making ProFX available for the 3538l version! A huge thanks, and expressed elation for maing available the MX8 also!!!! I can't forget the very notable addition of the ProFX ADC plugin to ProFX, which was a pioneering and groundbreaking feature release (for ADC enables Line In and Mic simultaneous recording to separate tracks)! Then, you updated the MX6 with the ability to custom name each channel, released the Peak meters, releaed the NoiseGates, kX Related Guides, and provide so much top notched help in the forum, and the list goes on and on....

Now-a-days my kX DSP is only ProFX and other effects plugins. You are a great and dear asset to the kX community!

I'm back on a regular basis, so I'll cya around.

Oh yeah, LeMury is just so "fit right at home" for me, I still like to use that name (and I hope you don/t mind. But, in a more professional atmosphere I'll, of course, use Lex NahuMury, such as when I give credit to you in any writing on my site, etc.

__________________

May a song always touch you in a positive way.
Sonar 8.5.3 PE, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB HDD 7200 rpm,
My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs

Lex Nahumury

Hey there Thomas,

Nice to have you back!
(with a new comp too I see.. )

Cheers,

/Lex.

Russ

Just thought I would mention (in case anyone was wondering), 'ProFx 3.08 for 3538L' works with 3538m.

serg_ssa

Hi Lex. Best regards and Thanks for nice ProFX package!
Did you have any plans to additional functionality of k1lt?

I always change volume by system Master Mixer. With multimedia keyboard its very simle and comfortable (my speakers are big, have volume and tune controls in back side. so i dont want to use manualy their controls).

But with k1lt system Master Mixer is inaccessible now. So in my case I can't use k1lt. Only just for fun, not for usually work.

I think it was be great if you can add to k1lt (or new some epiloglt control) one slider for output level with functionality of system master mixer.
Thanks!

__________________
<NULL>

Lex Nahumury

Sorry no.
One of the reasons I wrote kxlt was to save DSP resources.
(Adding volume options to kxlt would be almost the same as using epilog)

If you need DSP volume control, simply put some 'HQgain plugin'
in front of the desired kxlt output.

If you can not live without 'multimedia keyboard volume support' use Epilog
or see if Russ's 'keyboard mapper plugin' works for you.
(i've never tried it, so i wouldn't know)

Russ

No, my addon does not do such things. It is possible however to map Master Volume to any plugin using the 'ma' console command. See the following thread for some ino about that:
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/effects-...e-command.html

nakamichi

The ProFX Plugins are great,but where can I find older versions of these plugins (i.e. for 3537 final)?
I'm looking for the ones containing the older AC97 plugins before the combined ADC was added.
The latest versions of the kX drivers have a bug with the SB0240 cards,so I need 3537-compatible plugins to test this.
I know the older AC97 (.2)/UDA plugins worked before with my SB0240,I could clearly see the difference between the AC97 and UDA noise level when toggling between the 2 codecs,now with the new ADC plugin,there's no difference at all (the UDA is not working anymore) and the UDA pins don't give any output.

Lex Nahumury

Download and try ProFx v3.x for 3534f from my site.
There's a big change they work with 3537 too.
Let me now.

edit:
I don't know about the sb0240 isssue tho.

nakamichi

I tried the ProFX plugins for 3534f with the 3537 drivers,UDA input is still dead.It's probably a bug in the kX drivers and not with your plugins.I still need to do some more tests to verify this. More info on this kX driver WaveHQ recording/UDA issue with SB0240 cards in this thread page:

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/general-...-tweaks-4.html

bzdang

I too require the master level control, so I have used epilog. Thanks for the info, I will try the suggestions.

Lex Nahumury

Well, ProFx ADC plugin has little to nothing to do with 24/96 stuff,
so you should be able to get native 16/48 signal from those 2 extra UDA outputs
with ~10dB SNR improvement (unless there are some sb0240 quirks)

As for 24/96 stuff on CL cards+kX; I never even bothered to figure that mode out simply because ASIO 24/96 is not supported by kX. In other words; useless(to me)!

Anyway, at least that ProFx version works with all driver releases from 34 to 37 .