PluginQL -- A kX Addon

Maddogg6 · Aug 29, 2006, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

Ahh, yeah, I have looking into making the plugin restricted to a single instance.
As it is now, they both would always use the same settings, but since the settings are not saved until you save them, if you made changes in one window, and left it open, and then opened the window for the other instance, they would not match (although they would still be using the same settings (whatever was saved last... is shown when you first open the window)).

Ok this I finally figured out and understand.... and makes sense now that I know

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

No, it should only be loaded once, but it does not need to be loaded at all. The plugin is only for changing settings, and for kX automation. Once the settings are how you want them (and saved), you can unload the plugin (unless you want to use kX Automation with it).

Ahh OK as part of my testing its opens up a lot so I can change the hot keys and actions... after setup... one prolly wont need to open it up much.

But for now (I have a lot of configs) - its open as much as the DSP now...

Too bad its UI isnt accessed from the KX popup menu...

Russ · Aug 29, 2006, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddogg6

Also - it would be a nice touch.. if selecting devices with PluginQL would also swap DSP/Mixer screens as well.... if possible.

I think that woud be hard to do, and some people might not like that (if it could be done). Also, not having a multi-card setup, I am not completely sure how it works with multiple Mixers and DSP windows, etc. Can you have both Mixers open at same time, etc?

Maddogg6 · Aug 29, 2006, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

(unless you want to use kX Automation with it).

Wait this just registered... KX automation ?? ... so I can use midi to open up tweak screens huh? - how cool is that... not really practical.... but pretty slick none the less.

Maddogg6 · Aug 29, 2006, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

I think that woud be hard to do, and some people might not like that (if it could be done). Also, not having a multi-card setup, I am not completely sure how it works with multiple Mixers and DSP windows, etc. Can you have both Mixers open at same time, etc?

no.... choosing the device swaps screens - and I can never...
1) have 2 mixers open
2) have 2 DSP screens open
3) have 1 mixer and the others DSP.... its like a 'mode' change for those applets.... (my first mis understanding/wrong assumption)

Russ · Aug 29, 2006, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddogg6

Too bad its UI isnt accessed from the KX popup menu...

Well, it could be, but it was easier to use a plugin for that, and for adding support for kX Automation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddogg6

no.... choosing the device swaps screens - and I can never...
1) have 2 mixers open
2) have 2 DSP screens open
3) have 1 mixer and the others DSP.... its like a 'mode' change for those applets.... (my first mis understanding/wrong assumption)

Oh! I did not realize... and changing devices using the addon does not swap them?
Hmm, I will have to look into that then... I am just using a kX function to change devices, so I figured it would do whatever kX normally does.
Thanks for the info.

Maddogg6 · Aug 29, 2006, 07:29 AM

edit.... its like a global mode change for those applets....

For instance If I have Both the mixer and DSP open - and change device on the mixer - the DSP changes devices instantly as well too.

Maddogg6 · Aug 29, 2006, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

Well, it could be, but it was easier to use a plugin for that, and for adding support for kX Automation.

Ahh ok.... but Im not comprehending this func's usefullness, for me anyway...

Quote:

Oh! I did not realize... and changing devices using the addon does not swap them?
Hmm, I will have to look into that then... I am just using a kX function to change devices, so I figured it would do whatever kX normally does.
Thanks for the info.

Yes... I was expecting this to happen with mode change at first...

But then I seen the chioce for device select in your drop down...

NOW... hold on fixing that just yet....

I *may* want 1 DSP open but want to select a plugin from the OTHER DSP... my first assumed way... may not be the most desirable.

It would be better to have both IMHO.... a 'global' device chage that DID - and how you have it now as well... again... if possible.

Russ · Aug 29, 2006, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddogg6

Wait this just registered... KX automation ?? ... so I can use midi to open up tweak screens huh? - how cool is that... not really practical.... but pretty slick none the less.

Almost missed this one...

Yeah, someone requested that a while back... So that they could use external hardware to open the tweak windows, and control them, etc. (using kX automation for both).

Maddogg6 · Aug 29, 2006, 07:36 AM

Oh for clarity...

Changing devices via the KX native way... is like a global device change for all applets... where pluginQL device change does not emulate this action..

Maddogg6 · Aug 29, 2006, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

Almost missed this one...

Yeah, someone requested that a while back... So that they could use external hardware to open the tweak windows, and control them, etc. (using kX auomation for both).

hehe.... ok thats cool.... and more functional...

Russ · Aug 29, 2006, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddogg6

Oh for clarity...

Changing devices via the KX native way... is like a global device change for all applets... where pluginQL device change does not emulate this action..

Ok, I will look into it, but are we sure that it is opening the plugin windows, etc. for the device chosen through the addon?

Maddogg6 · Aug 29, 2006, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

Ok, I will look into it, but are we sure that it is opening the plugin windows, etc. for the device chose through the addon?

Yes.... I 100% comfirm that IT IS changing which device in which to load a tweak screen from and DOES successfully open ALL my plugins - well up to # 22 (twas the most I could load in, with out counting resources). That was just me dumb false alarm...

Most of it was my not understanding what to expect...

Russ · Aug 29, 2006, 07:53 AM

Ok good. Thanks again for testing. I will look into changing the device globally too.

Russ · Aug 29, 2006, 05:52 PM

There may be a problem with this addon on multi-kx-card systems...
From testing done with Maddogg6, it seems that the addon is being loaded twice, when it should only be loaded once (it is listed twice under addons). The two instances of the addon seem to be conflicting with each other, and causing certain (addon) functions not to work. I will have to look into this further to see if it is a kX issue with system wide addons, or if it is something in my code. From my own testing it appears to work correctly on single card systems.

1) Can anyone else verify this on 3538j and/or 3538k? (addon listed more than once on multi-card (under kX) systems)
2) On systems with more than 2 cards installed under kx, is the addon listed more times?
3) Has anyone with only one card, had problems with the addon, using any of the other options (i.e. doing things besides opening tweak windows (for example: opening the speaker test applet (using the addon))?

-Russ

ROBSCIX · Aug 29, 2006, 06:18 PM

I think a on screen display of what the key press was doing would be very cool. Also RUss would it be possible to add DSP preset to hotkeys?-well I guess you already can in one way or another..OKwhat I wanted to ask I have hot keys that open a DSP module then I hit the same key combination and it goes away..very cool. Now some DSP modules hold there position and some don't does htis have to do with the module it self or your plugin?

Russ · Aug 29, 2006, 06:28 PM

@ROBSCIX,
Presets are not really do-able. I have however been looking into the possibility to save settings with different DSP configs, but it is a little complicated, and I am not sure if/when that can be done.

As for DSP modules not holding thier position, I think that is probably a kX issue itself (maybe fixed in K, as I have not noticed it). What happens if you open/close the window normally? Which specific plugins (so I can check it out)?

ROBSCIX · Aug 29, 2006, 06:51 PM

Sure, I use P5's for my front and rear channels. when I hit the key combo I can make them appear and disapear but when they appear the are always in the original location...I will keep testing and playing...BTW what about having a OSD for the plugin or is that a little difficult? -so if you hit a key combo it would say Graphic Eq, or anything like that...any ideas about that? -the plugin is very cool btw..thx

Russ · Aug 29, 2006, 07:00 PM

Ok, I have tested with the P5's, and they do hold thier position in 3538k, so it is probably a 3538j (kX) issue. As for an OSD, maybe... Maddogg6 and I were discussing a few related ideas, but I got to think about it some more.

<edit>
If you close the plugin gui window, when it is minimized, it will not hold its previous restored postition (and this is consistant with how it works, doing the same thing manually...)
</edit>

BTW: Don't you have a multi-card setup (I know you got a new card a little while back, are you using both of them, or did you get rid of the old one?)?

Maddogg6 · Aug 29, 2006, 08:10 PM

@Russ:

Ok... I disabled my live card and it does work for opening mixer windows..

BUT -I did notice this...
1) Synth compatibility... keeps opening up MORE synth compatibilty screens instead of closing it. (I had 11 synth compatibilty screes up, and it seems to also expose a skin bug.. hard to describe.. will post pic if you like)

2) Most of the mixer, DSP, settings screens only open and not close on second pressing.

Russ · Aug 29, 2006, 08:15 PM

Ok, thanks again for doing that

As for the issue with the Synth Compatibility applet, you will notice that it does the same thing if you select it multiple times from the kX menu (should probably post a bug report about it in the bugs thread).

As for the open/close toggle, that is only for plugin windows.

Maddogg6 · Aug 29, 2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

Ok, thanks again for doing that

As for the issue with the Synth Compatibility applet, you will notice that it does the same thing if you select it multiple times from the kX menu (should probably post a bug report about it in the bugs thread).

As for the open/close toggle, that is only for plugin windows.

Ahh... ok...

I *would* post this bug ...but for J?? - is it the same in K as well? if not it would be kinda moot. (never tried opening it more than once before...)

and of course ... no problem and more than happy to help out as much as I can.

Russ · Aug 29, 2006, 08:24 PM

Yes, it is the same in 3538k (and I suspect previous kX versions as well).

Russ · Aug 29, 2006, 10:50 PM

OK, I think we got the multi-card stuff sorted out (very big thanks to Maddogg6 for testing).

I changed the addon type to per device, and it seems to be working correctly now for both single card and multi-card systems.

I had thought that a per-device setting would have it loaded multiple times (one for each device), while a system-wide setting, would use one shared instance of the addon. As it turns out, a system-wide setting appears to load multiple instances of the addon, while a per-device setting either uses a single shared version, or it unloads/reloads the addon when you switch devices.

In any case, I updated the files on the download page (listed as "multi-card fix" version).

Installation is same as with previous versions (see first post in this thread for instructions, and link).

-Russ

Russ · Aug 29, 2006, 10:55 PM

@Maddogg6, one thing I forgot to confirm with you: With the new version, changing devices, does change the MIXER and DSP, etc. to the new device setting now?

Maddogg6 · Aug 29, 2006, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

@Maddogg6, one thing I forgot to confirm with you: With the new version, changing devices, does change the MIXER and DSP, etc. to the new device setting now?

yes. they do perfectly - its JUST lIKE if I had chosen the dropdown in the bottom right of the applets..

edit>
additionally - If I have mixer AND DSP open - when I change devices, this action changes both as a for instance - just like if I choose the card in the applet.
<end edit

Russ · Aug 29, 2006, 11:03 PM

OK, good.

Thanks again, you have been of great help to me...
Seriously, if you did not test it out, I would not have known about the problem (that must have been there all along) in the first place, and would have had a much harder time trying to figure out the cause.

-Russ

Maddogg6 · Aug 29, 2006, 11:05 PM

Im more than happy to tell you about your headaches.... Im like ANTI-ASPRIN...

But - heres a couple things to contemplate:

1) making a habit of closing tweak windows - but applets dont...is a little 'dis-appointing' - and maybe the cause for others NOT to rely on hot keys for opening applets...

2) with out indication of mode and card selected its EASY to open and adjust the wrong tweakwindow if using default names on the plugins - as even the 'scribble strips' on the mixers (MX6, Mixy etc..) provide liitle space for differentiating the tweak windows apart from one another...

Just my opinion on why this may have gone un-noticed by others (as I personally only used for tweak windows in the past - partly for this reason - as well as freeing up hot keys for as many tweak windows possible with out need to change mode as often)

HTH

Mark

Russ · Aug 30, 2006, 12:37 AM

The API only provides a 'Launch' option for applets, there is no 'close' option, nor any option to determine if the applet is allready open, because of this, it would be a lot more complicated to do an open/close toggle for all windows. I have not completley ruled this out, but, for now at least, it is not an included option.

Also, the close option is mainly useful if you accidentally open the wrong window (and ALT-F4 is always an option to close the window). Normally you are opening the window to make some adjustment, and would probably use the mouse to close the window anyway (and some applet windows are of the OK/Cancel type.).

As for an indicator of some kind, I agree that it could be usefull, and I am rolling around several ideas.

Russ · Aug 30, 2006, 04:06 PM

I have found a couple of minor issues that I am fixing, so people may want to hold off on this until I make the next update (if you have not allready updated). I also decided I would go ahead and add the open/close toggle behavior to all windows, so that should be in the next update also (if testing goes well). I have not decided what I want to do with the indicator stuff as of yet, so that will most likely not be included with that update.

-Russ

Maddogg6 · Aug 30, 2006, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

I have found a couple of minor issues that I am fixing, so people may want to hold off on this until I make the next update (if you have not allready updated). I also decided I would go ahead and add the open/close toggle behavior to all windows, so that should be in the next update also (if testing goes well). I have not decided what I want to do with the indicator stuff as of yet, so that will most likely not be included with that update.

-Russ

hmm... I played all day with it yesterday and didnt find a single issue...unless I didnt understand your intent with something... or what did I miss?

AND woohoo - close the applet windows to be added .... whoohoo -

*dances like a fool in his underwear*

eh hem.... thats great Russ...

Aug 29, 2006, 05:52 PM	Thread Starter #164
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	There may be a problem with this addon on multi-kx-card systems... From testing done with Maddogg6, it seems that the addon is being loaded twice, when it should only be loaded once (it is listed twice under addons). The two instances of the addon seem to be conflicting with each other, and causing certain (addon) functions not to work. I will have to look into this further to see if it is a kX issue with system wide addons, or if it is something in my code. From my own testing it appears to work correctly on single card systems. 1) Can anyone else verify this on 3538j and/or 3538k? (addon listed more than once on multi-card (under kX) systems) 2) On systems with more than 2 cards installed under kx, is the addon listed more times? 3) Has anyone with only one card, had problems with the addon, using any of the other options (i.e. doing things besides opening tweak windows (for example: opening the speaker test applet (using the addon))? -Russ Last edited by Russ; Aug 29, 2006 at 06:03 PM.

Aug 29, 2006, 07:00 PM	Thread Starter #168
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	Ok, I have tested with the P5's, and they do hold thier position in 3538k, so it is probably a 3538j (kX) issue. As for an OSD, maybe... Maddogg6 and I were discussing a few related ideas, but I got to think about it some more. <edit> If you close the plugin gui window, when it is minimized, it will not hold its previous restored postition (and this is consistant with how it works, doing the same thing manually...) </edit> BTW: Don't you have a multi-card setup (I know you got a new card a little while back, are you using both of them, or did you get rid of the old one?)? Last edited by Russ; Aug 29, 2006 at 07:42 PM.

Aug 29, 2006, 08:10 PM	#169
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 0	@Russ: Ok... I disabled my live card and it does work for opening mixer windows.. BUT -I did notice this... 1) Synth compatibility... keeps opening up MORE synth compatibilty screens instead of closing it. (I had 11 synth compatibilty screes up, and it seems to also expose a skin bug.. hard to describe.. will post pic if you like) 2) Most of the mixer, DSP, settings screens only open and not close on second pressing. Last edited by Maddogg6; Aug 29, 2006 at 08:12 PM. Reason: typos

Aug 29, 2006, 10:50 PM	Thread Starter #173
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	Update: OK, I think we got the multi-card stuff sorted out (very big thanks to Maddogg6 for testing). I changed the addon type to per device, and it seems to be working correctly now for both single card and multi-card systems. I had thought that a per-device setting would have it loaded multiple times (one for each device), while a system-wide setting, would use one shared instance of the addon. As it turns out, a system-wide setting appears to load multiple instances of the addon, while a per-device setting either uses a single shared version, or it unloads/reloads the addon when you switch devices. In any case, I updated the files on the download page (listed as "multi-card fix" version). Installation is same as with previous versions (see first post in this thread for instructions, and link). -Russ

Aug 29, 2006, 11:05 PM	#177
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 0	Im more than happy to tell you about your headaches.... Im like ANTI-ASPRIN... But - heres a couple things to contemplate: 1) making a habit of closing tweak windows - but applets dont...is a little 'dis-appointing' - and maybe the cause for others NOT to rely on hot keys for opening applets... 2) with out indication of mode and card selected its EASY to open and adjust the wrong tweakwindow if using default names on the plugins - as even the 'scribble strips' on the mixers (MX6, Mixy etc..) provide liitle space for differentiating the tweak windows apart from one another... Just my opinion on why this may have gone un-noticed by others (as I personally only used for tweak windows in the past - partly for this reason - as well as freeing up hot keys for as many tweak windows possible with out need to change mode as often) HTH Mark Last edited by Maddogg6; Aug 29, 2006 at 11:11 PM.

Aug 29, 2006, 07:29 AM	#156
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 0	edit.... its like a global mode change for those applets.... For instance If I have Both the mixer and DSP open - and change device on the mixer - the DSP changes devices instantly as well too.

Aug 29, 2006, 07:36 AM	#159
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 0	Oh for clarity... Changing devices via the KX native way... is like a global device change for all applets... where pluginQL device change does not emulate this action..

Aug 29, 2006, 07:53 AM	Thread Starter #163
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	Ok good. Thanks again for testing. I will look into changing the device globally too.

Aug 29, 2006, 06:18 PM	#165
ROBSCIX DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,732 Rep Power: 0	I think a on screen display of what the key press was doing would be very cool. Also RUss would it be possible to add DSP preset to hotkeys?-well I guess you already can in one way or another..OKwhat I wanted to ask I have hot keys that open a DSP module then I hit the same key combination and it goes away..very cool. Now some DSP modules hold there position and some don't does htis have to do with the module it self or your plugin?

Aug 29, 2006, 06:28 PM	Thread Starter #166
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	@ROBSCIX, Presets are not really do-able. I have however been looking into the possibility to save settings with different DSP configs, but it is a little complicated, and I am not sure if/when that can be done. As for DSP modules not holding thier position, I think that is probably a kX issue itself (maybe fixed in K, as I have not noticed it). What happens if you open/close the window normally? Which specific plugins (so I can check it out)?

Aug 29, 2006, 06:51 PM	#167
ROBSCIX DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,732 Rep Power: 0	Sure, I use P5's for my front and rear channels. when I hit the key combo I can make them appear and disapear but when they appear the are always in the original location...I will keep testing and playing...BTW what about having a OSD for the plugin or is that a little difficult? -so if you hit a key combo it would say Graphic Eq, or anything like that...any ideas about that? -the plugin is very cool btw..thx

Aug 29, 2006, 08:15 PM	Thread Starter #170
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	Ok, thanks again for doing that As for the issue with the Synth Compatibility applet, you will notice that it does the same thing if you select it multiple times from the kX menu (should probably post a bug report about it in the bugs thread). As for the open/close toggle, that is only for plugin windows.

Aug 29, 2006, 08:24 PM	Thread Starter #172
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	Yes, it is the same in 3538k (and I suspect previous kX versions as well).

Aug 29, 2006, 10:55 PM	Thread Starter #174
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	@Maddogg6, one thing I forgot to confirm with you: With the new version, changing devices, does change the MIXER and DSP, etc. to the new device setting now?

Aug 29, 2006, 11:03 PM	Thread Starter #176
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	OK, good. Thanks again, you have been of great help to me... Seriously, if you did not test it out, I would not have known about the problem (that must have been there all along) in the first place, and would have had a much harder time trying to figure out the cause. -Russ

Aug 30, 2006, 12:37 AM	Thread Starter #178
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	The API only provides a 'Launch' option for applets, there is no 'close' option, nor any option to determine if the applet is allready open, because of this, it would be a lot more complicated to do an open/close toggle for all windows. I have not completley ruled this out, but, for now at least, it is not an included option. Also, the close option is mainly useful if you accidentally open the wrong window (and ALT-F4 is always an option to close the window). Normally you are opening the window to make some adjustment, and would probably use the mouse to close the window anyway (and some applet windows are of the OK/Cancel type.). As for an indicator of some kind, I agree that it could be usefull, and I am rolling around several ideas. Last edited by Russ; Aug 30, 2006 at 12:54 AM.

Aug 30, 2006, 04:06 PM	Thread Starter #179
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	I have found a couple of minor issues that I am fixing, so people may want to hold off on this until I make the next update (if you have not allready updated). I also decided I would go ahead and add the open/close toggle behavior to all windows, so that should be in the next update also (if testing goes well). I have not decided what I want to do with the indicator stuff as of yet, so that will most likely not be included with that update. -Russ