DriverHeaven feedback

ET3D · Sep 16, 2009, 08:23 AM

No complaints here.

Though wasn't there some idea in the past about reviewing phones? Whatever came of that? Or is my mind just playing tricks on me?

CDsDontBurn · Sep 16, 2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig5320

I think Allan was more after feedback to do with the site itself than possible merchandising prospects

What do you think of the frontpage layout, is the navigation bar easy to use? Do you find yourself lost in the forum listings, do you get stuck at the end of page and find you have to manually backup.

That sort of thing.

being a DH veteran of a little over 6 years, i do have a few issues with the site.

make this banner work properly! it's never worked right since it was first implemented into DH. that was what? over two years ago? i know i'm not the only one who's said anything about it in the past before either. i remember it being a big deal back in the day but as time has passed, people have forgotten about it.

another thing i would like changed is the center ad that is placed between the first two posts of any page/thread one is viewing. i would like it changed so that if a person is logged in that this ad does not appear but if a person is not logged in or is a lurker that this ad appears. my reason for complaint is because of vertical scrolling. admin have imposed a rule that we cannot have over 5 lines of text and images need to be 500x150 pixels or smaller and this is in part due to vertical scrolling and to limit the amount of data going back and forth. if that's the case, then this ad should be removed for those same purposes.

i know DH, like any other website, gets most of its income through advertising, but forcing regular users that are signed in to view this ad is just cumbersome.

something else that should be amended to the forum is a car talk section. it could be a sub-section to the off topic forum. i don't see why this would be so difficult to do as there are other forums already with several sub-forums. there have been more car talk than there has been SFF talk like how mousey pointed out. this has also been brought up several times in the past and has always been brought down. the typical answer for this is a "we'll think about it." that's along the same lines that parents give to their kids when they really mean, "no, that's not going to happen."

then there's the gaming news. what happened to the old way of posting news in the gaming news section? are all the gaming websites now banned from being linked on a a DH news article? every so often i see something that catches my attention and all i see is something that was likely cut and pasted or rephrased from some other source. where is the link to follow the source of the news? often times i find myself googleing what this is about in order to read another website's article that provides more detailed information.

overall, my view of DH over the years has gone from a nice and friendly place to a businessesque like atmosphere. which i do understand, this is after all, it is a business. however, this type of business is not one, or at least does not give the impression, of a business that there are sales to be made since all revenues made are pushed by the advertising that is provided already by 3rd parties. if sales are made, then i don't think it's from DH itself, but rather one of its sister sites that not many other people here know about and this should have no impact on the fact that DH is a "business" because the way i see it, it's not. DH itself (not including its sister sites) gets all of its money from the advertising and if users click on those ads. at least that's my view on the matter. and for these said reasons, i don't feel that DH should be run as a business but more as a community.

now for the positives.

over these 6 years here at DH, i've made many friends. in a couple of occasions, i've even met some of these people. over the years i've been part of staff, a news poster, and a gold member 4 times. every instance in my participation and involvement in DH i have enjoyed. and to be honest, the great people that are part of this community are the reason why i keep returning.

Zardon · Sep 16, 2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ET3D

Though wasn't there some idea in the past about reviewing phones? Whatever came of that? Or is my mind just playing tricks on me?

I think we started a poll on it once to find out the interest level. Clearly old age is playing havoc with me too

***craig5320*** · Sep 16, 2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDsDontBurn

make this banner work properly! it's never worked right since it was first implemented into DH.

If you're referring to the menu bar, it works as it was intended to work, and that is what was said last time it was debated. The items remain their for ease of use, instead of fighting to keep them there to select, you don't have to be pixel perfect to select an item. Nobody like's fighting a drop-down menu to click something.

Quote:

another thing i would like changed is the center ad that is placed between the first two posts of any page/thread one is viewing. i would like it changed so that if a person is logged in that this ad does not appear but if a person is not logged in or is a lurker that this ad appears. my reason for complaint is because of vertical scrolling. admin have imposed a rule that we cannot have over 5 lines of text and images need to be 500x150 pixels or smaller and this is in part due to vertical scrolling and to limit the amount of data going back and forth. if that's the case, then this ad should be removed for those same purposes.

I doubt this will happen, while some sites might find it viable to only hammer guests with adverts, we like to hammer everyone. Fair's fair. I see the adverts, you see the adverts, John Doe see's the adverts. You will probably find the majority of sites do this to drive registration rates we don't. The review panel beside the advert has also proved very successful.

Quote:

something else that should be amended to the forum is a car talk section. it could be a sub-section to the off topic forum. i don't see why this would be so difficult to do as there are other forums already with several sub-forums. there have been more car talk than there has been SFF talk like how mousey pointed out. this has also been brought up several times in the past and has always been brought down. the typical answer for this is a "we'll think about it." that's along the same lines that parents give to their kids when they really mean, "no, that's not going to happen."

We'll see...

Quote:

then there's the gaming news. what happened to the old way of posting news in the gaming news section? are all the gaming websites now banned from being linked on a a DH news article? every so often i see something that catches my attention and all i see is something that was likely cut and pasted or rephrased from some other source. where is the link to follow the source of the news? often times i find myself googleing what this is about in order to read another website's article that provides more detailed information.

As far as I'm aware MIG still posts gaming news, we have a new system which is currently being headed by Marty. He is writing news from scratch based on press releases, and contacts in the industry. - The same way other sites do it, so if you think it's cut and pasted you'll probably find the other site has used the same press releases. If you think Marty isn't detailed enough then please say so, don't be shy.

Quote:

overall, my view of DH over the years has gone from a nice and friendly place to a businessesque like atmosphere. which i do understand, this is after all, it is a business. however, this type of business is not one, or at least does not give the impression, of a business that there are sales to be made since all revenues made are pushed by the advertising that is provided already by 3rd parties. if sales are made, then i don't think it's from DH itself, but rather one of its sister sites that not many other people here know about and this should have no impact on the fact that DH is a "business" because the way i see it, it's not. DH itself (not including its sister sites) gets all of its money from the advertising and if users click on those ads. at least that's my view on the matter. and for these said reasons, i don't feel that DH should be run as a business but more as a community.

How exactly has the community side gone from DH? Because there is an advert between post 1 and 2 which wasn't there a couple of years ago? I fail to see what has changed so much to mean DH is no longer a nice friendly place.

This isn't a faceless congolmerate, you know myself, Allan and the rest of the team, we're not sat here on mountains of money. Thinking how we can squeeze every last dollar out of this community.

We've been here from the start, when we didn't have ad's at all. When Allan paid out hundreds of pounds a month to keep this site up. The whole team works very hard to constantly improve DH, change is inevitable to survive we have to develop and change.

No one is pulling our strings, except you the community.

Thank you for your input.

Zardon · Sep 16, 2009, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDsDontBurn

being a DH veteran of a little over 6 years, i do have a few issues with the site.

make this banner work properly! it's never worked right since it was first implemented into DH. that was what? over two years ago? i know i'm not the only one who's said anything about it in the past before either. i remember it being a big deal back in the day but as time has passed, people have forgotten about it.

I know Craig has replied but I would like to add a few things.

Firstly I think you need to relax a little CD's - I know you are a long standing member here and I think I can speak for the rest of the admins when I say that we value your opinion. No one is ever ignored, but I will say that I have noticed your attitude with us in the last six months is rather flippant and even slightly aggressive. I am making the effort to speak to you as a 'person' here rather than just launch a barrage of replies at you from behind a monitor. Just like I did in the BFG threads. It would be nice to feel like both Craig and myself have earned this kind of tone or even a little respect in your replies also.

Anyway, in regards to the Navbar, I agree with you - I don't particularly like it either. The more I use it, the more annoying it is. This is not Craig's fault, it was agreed on behind the scenes a long time ago and I don't think its the perfect solution. We haven't 'ignored' this and we are actually working on other ideas - these do however take some time to implement and I don't really think you might appreciate the work that goes into this site from the rather substantial team behind the scenes. Craig and myself are just two people you know because we deal with the public side of the site.

Quote:

another thing i would like changed is the center ad that is placed between the first two posts of any page/thread one is viewing. i would like it changed so that if a person is logged in that this ad does not appear but if a person is not logged in or is a lurker that this ad appears. my reason for complaint is because of vertical scrolling. admin have imposed a rule that we cannot have over 5 lines of text and images need to be 500x150 pixels or smaller and this is in part due to vertical scrolling and to limit the amount of data going back and forth. if that's the case, then this ad should be removed for those same purposes.

It might actually be a fair point, but I will be honest in that i think we have received two complaints about this over the course of time since it was first put in place. If anyone else hates this so much it ruins the usability of the forums then please do express it. We have been offered many other campaign plans such as intellitext which highlights text within posts to serve advertising, but we have deliberately refused it because it is very oppressive to the community. I am not looking for a pat on the back for saying that, but we do always contemplate the forum peops, because yes, we use the forum too !

Quote:

something else that should be amended to the forum is a car talk section. it could be a sub-section to the off topic forum. i don't see why this would be so difficult to do as there are other forums already with several sub-forums. there have been more car talk than there has been SFF talk like how mousey pointed out. this has also been brought up several times in the past and has always been brought down. the typical answer for this is a "we'll think about it." that's along the same lines that parents give to their kids when they really mean, "no, that's not going to happen."

Yes I do see that several forum sections are basically inactive but I am not sure that adding more which could also be inactive to an already rather complex forum configuration will help to solve the problem. I do agree the forum needs an overhaul in some areas and we will be doing just that very shortly.

Quote:

then there's the gaming news. what happened to the old way of posting news in the gaming news section? are all the gaming websites now banned from being linked on a a DH news article? every so often i see something that catches my attention and all i see is something that was likely cut and pasted or rephrased from some other source. where is the link to follow the source of the news? often times i find myself googleing what this is about in order to read another website's article that provides more detailed information.

See Craig's post above. if you think it sucks, then use the forum section for mig's posts as he handles his news the old way.

Quote:

overall, my view of DH over the years has gone from a nice and friendly place to a businessesque like atmosphere. which i do understand, this is after all, it is a business.

Yes it is a business and I have been placed in the great position of getting two other good friends of mine to handle aspects of this business I don't like (such as sales and marketing) so I can intentionally devote all my time to content and helping Craig deal with the forum and our very important readers (yes you). I have to say these kind of posts make me wonder if I both myself and Craig have suddenly turned into suit wearing ogres because I still have the highest respect for our public and take everything you guys say on board. This doesn't mean I will do everything you all ask because I still make the decision with the team as a group decision to only implement what we feel are the best options. I am sure we don't always get it right.

Quote:

however, this type of business is not one, or at least does not give the impression, of a business that there are sales to be made since all revenues made are pushed by the advertising that is provided already by 3rd parties. if sales are made, then i don't think it's from DH itself, but rather one of its sister sites that not many other people here know about and this should have no impact on the fact that DH is a "business" because the way i see it, it's not.

I think I need to draw a bit of line here CD's as you really don't know how this business works, because unless you have spy cameras in our offices in Cambridge, England then all of this is just basically guess work on your part. I don't really feel the need to go over our business plan and how all our staff work - but Stuart, Craig, John and all our other guys are full time employees - we do perfectly fine as a business - so I guess we are doing something right.

Quote:

DH itself (not including its sister sites) gets all of its money from the advertising and if users click on those ads. at least that's my view on the matter. and for these said reasons, i don't feel that DH should be run as a business but more as a community.

I am a little confused - how exactly do you feel I/we are running the forum side of this site as a 'business' - if you mean we are professional, courteous and are now in the position to upload daily news and content then I will take that as a compliment. I however get the feeling you mean it in a degoritory manner that we "don't care about anyone" and are more interested in the $$ now? I fail to see how I can prove to you that my heart is still in this community because if I (or craig) already don't give the impression then clearly we are doing something wrong. I do try and make the time to answer people when I can, and I know Craig still feels this place is his home and this is why he, Stuart and the rest of the team end up working well past our normal 9-5 hours.

Quote:

now for the positives.

over these 6 years here at DH, i've made many friends. in a couple of occasions, i've even met some of these people. over the years i've been part of staff, a news poster, and a gold member 4 times. every instance in my participation and involvement in DH i have enjoyed. and to be honest, the great people that are part of this community are the reason why i keep returning.

Thats great to hear, I have met a few people from the forums as well and I would proudly state that we have the largest percentage of intelligent and friendly 'geeks' than any other tech site in the industry.

comp_ali · Sep 16, 2009, 02:20 PM

What happened to "more smilies" suggestion ?

***craig5320*** · Sep 16, 2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comp_ali

What happened to "more smilies" suggestion ?

Just finding time to sort them out, if people have suggestions for smiliies we don't have that aren't too over the top, post them up.

What about:

EDIT:

here's one that has been sat in the folder, but didn't make the grade, it's called Say:

looks a bit odd to me

comp_ali · Sep 16, 2009, 03:33 PM

Nice , how about those , will look for more later

Edit : oops I just found you have added off topic smiley in your post already.

Zardon · Sep 16, 2009, 03:41 PM

Those are absolutely hideous.

SeraphicSorcerer · Sep 16, 2009, 03:57 PM

I was just wondering from a site perspective, if you guys could do any parternships with newegg etc. To get us even better deals since you do reviews, and link to their sites, I don't know if you're aware of HardOCP's hard daily deals or whatever, but something like that with a NEWLY REVIEWED product would be AWESOME.

Just saying. We're all geeks here. right? Chic Geeks, even.

As far as navigation, I don't know what it is, but somehow the forums seems "Far" from everything else, I think it should be like *BAM* on the front page, a more prominent placement. Because the community here is why i actually post. etc. I think we've got a great community so advertising it would be better for everyone.

comp_ali · Sep 16, 2009, 04:01 PM

@ Z
really , so you prefer the small ones.

***craig5320*** · Sep 16, 2009, 04:20 PM

Most of those Ali are probably too big to look well in the smiley box, and all would have to be coloured to match the blue that we use.

We want to avoid smilies for the sake of smilies, most of them the glasses, laughing, tongue out we already have smilies for. I like this one:

which could have a place, along with the OT one and the clapping one I posted.

**MIG-31** · Sep 16, 2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDsDontBurn

then there's the gaming news. what happened to the old way of posting news in the gaming news section? are all the gaming websites now banned from being linked on a a DH news article? every so often i see something that catches my attention and all i see is something that was likely cut and pasted or rephrased from some other source. where is the link to follow the source of the news? often times i find myself googleing what this is about in order to read another website's article that provides more detailed information.

The rest of your post is best left to admin....

Just to let you know (Even though its been mentioned) i am still active in Gaming News forum...I have spent my time posting gaming news from the day this new section went live..

Marty is heading the Main gaming front page in the new style.. But im sure you may of noticed the old syle is active in the Gaming News Forum.. The only difference is between these two mine dont hit the Gaming News front page..

The only dawback this holds is that marty does post two or three articles that i already have done so... Its just one of those things i guess all of the members will need to get used to...At least untill admin bring in another style which im sure they will do in the future.

And thanks for asking me in a PM also... I won't reply to it this time round as im sure you will see what i have said here..

Zardon · Sep 16, 2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIG-31

And thanks for asking me in a PM also... I won't reply to it this time round as im sure you will see what i have said here..

CD's certainly seems to like to know everything thats going on, thats for sure...

comp_ali · Sep 16, 2009, 06:30 PM

Man It is hard to find blue ones , here is more

Zardon · Sep 16, 2009, 07:13 PM

While its nice you are helping us with smilies Comp Ali, I would like other feedback in here so I consider the smily 'debate' closed in here (or confined to another thread anyway).

Thanks.

Bolletje · Sep 16, 2009, 08:41 PM

Well, at the moment the site is nice. If it wasn't i wouldn't be here

However I have some problems with pics posted in the forums. Some people don't resize (or thumb them) the image and sometimes it's a really high resolution (straight from the camera). This slows up the whole thing since all the pictures are often hosted at Imageshack or something like that.

Example (no offence skylineaddict

):

So maybe some solutions:

- Cap on the max width of an image (say 500-600 or so)
- DH userspace (like a couple MB for images)

This will not f*ck up the lay-out and it will load faster.

Neshi · Sep 16, 2009, 08:51 PM

the option is already there with the attachments option in the "advanced" posting screen, this will make the photo's thumbnails.

But if people don't use that, or the shrinking to thumbnails on the hosting site itself...

comp_ali · Sep 16, 2009, 08:53 PM

Okay. I have some notes. I see you review some games that doesn't have many fans out there. while there are other games that are more popular. For examble you haven't ever reviewed a soccer game while you reviewed some games for other sports. I know tastes are different but you may do something like making an updated list of " Upcoming games that need review " and people vote or thumb up/down for each game and the highest ranked games being reviewed and if there some extra time in reviewers hand they can review the lower ranked ones. And remember it will rain tons of mighty games in the coming three months like Star Wars , Alpha Protocol , Blur , Dragon Age: Origins , Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 , Assassin's Creed II , Left 4 Dead 2 , Dirt 2 , The Saboteur ,....etc.

I am actually pissed off form "win 'n' run " user . You know that there are thousands of people just register to enter the competitions after that they vanish and don't participate in community and even who won something as well. That's mean . I know it is very bad to make restrictions like other sites do like a minimal posts to enter contests but it seems people don't understand that.

CDsDontBurn · Sep 16, 2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig5320

We'll see...

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig5320

As far as I'm aware MIG still posts gaming news, we have a new system which is currently being headed by Marty. He is writing news from scratch based on press releases, and contacts in the industry. - The same way other sites do it, so if you think it's cut and pasted you'll probably find the other site has used the same press releases. If you think Marty isn't detailed enough then please say so, don't be shy.

Right, there aren't enough details in Marty's style of doing gaming news.

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig5320

How exactly has the community side gone from DH? Because there is an advert between post 1 and 2 which wasn't there a couple of years ago? I fail to see what has changed so much to mean DH is no longer a nice friendly place.

Geminiwave, pr0digalJenius, and most recently Iria. All have made points about DH and/or its staff and how it's run. Because of this, they have left DH. I wouldn't be surprised if there are others as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig5320

This isn't a faceless congolmerate, you know myself, Allan and the rest of the team, we're not sat here on mountains of money. Thinking how we can squeeze every last dollar out of this community.

Yes, I do know you guys. I think this is pretty neat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig5320

We've been here from the start, when we didn't have ad's at all. When Allan paid out hundreds of pounds a month to keep this site up. The whole team works very hard to constantly improve DH, change is inevitable to survive we have to develop and change.

I remember this time. During this time, we also received a special medal for giving donations to keep the site going.

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig5320

Thank you for your input.

you're welcome

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zardon

Firstly I think you need to relax a little CD's - I know you are a long standing member here and I think I can speak for the rest of the admins when I say that we value your opinion. No one is ever ignored, but I will say that I have noticed your attitude with us in the last six months is rather flippant and even slightly aggressive. I am making the effort to speak to you as a 'person' here rather than just launch a barrage of replies at you from behind a monitor. Just like I did in the BFG threads. It would be nice to feel like both Craig and myself have earned this kind of tone or even a little respect in your replies also.

Reading language and hearing language are two different things. In most situations granted, reading language is the same as hearing language. On this, or any forum for that matter, reading language is all an interpretation of the reader.

I know in some instances, such as in some BFG threads as you mentioned, I have come off a bit aggressive. It's just that after a point had been made about the useability of DH and it had appeared that nothing had been done about it after some time, it's just human nature to go from asking, to patient, and then to aggression.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zardon

Anyway, in regards to the Navbar, I agree with you - I don't particularly like it either. The more I use it, the more annoying it is. This is not Craig's fault, it was agreed on behind the scenes a long time ago and I don't think its the perfect solution. We haven't 'ignored' this and we are actually working on other ideas - these do however take some time to implement and I don't really think you might appreciate the work that goes into this site from the rather substantial team behind the scenes. Craig and myself are just two people you know because we deal with the public side of the site.

I know it's not your fault about how the navbar works. It's just something that has been pointed out before.

As for behind the scenes, this is true anywhere. An example would be a restaurant. The guest is being served by the waiter(ess) and if something is wrong or good, the waiter(ess) takes the fault/compliment. The cook behind the scenes would probably not know about a compliment, but would definitely know about a complaint! But as you said, DH's "cooks" are working on a way to make the navbar better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zardon

It might actually be a fair point, but I will be honest in that i think we have received two complaints about this over the course of time since it was first put in place. If anyone else hates this so much it ruins the usability of the forums then please do express it. We have been offered many other campaign plans such as intellitext which highlights text within posts to serve advertising, but we have deliberately refused it because it is very oppressive to the community. I am not looking for a pat on the back for saying that, but we do always contemplate the forum peops, because yes, we use the forum too!

intellitext is the one where certain words are underlined and if you hove your mouse over that particular word it brings up a balloon like window right? if so, then yes, i'd much rather prefer this one ad in the middle!

As for not receiving any complaints about this particular ad, perhaps these people would rather just not post and "fade away" rather than speak up?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zardon

Yes I do see that several forum sections are basically inactive but I am not sure that adding more which could also be inactive to an already rather complex forum configuration will help to solve the problem. I do agree the forum needs an overhaul in some areas and we will be doing just that very shortly.

Then why not add this particular section and let it run for a few months to see how it goes? If it doesn't go well then it could be removed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zardon

Yes it is a business and I have been placed in the great position of getting two other good friends of mine to handle aspects of this business I don't like (such as sales and marketing) so I can intentionally devote all my time to content and helping Craig deal with the forum and our very important readers (yes you). I have to say these kind of posts make me wonder if I both myself and Craig have suddenly turned into suit wearing ogres because I still have the highest respect for our public and take everything you guys say on board. This doesn't mean I will do everything you all ask because I still make the decision with the team as a group decision to only implement what we feel are the best options. I am sure we don't always get it right.

It would definitely be nice to see you more throughout the boards on the public side as currently I see more of Craig. I wouldn't call you or Craig, "suit wearing ogres" as you put it because your overall intention is for the better of DH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zardon

I think I need to draw a bit of line here CD's as you really don't know how this business works, because unless you have spy cameras in our offices in Cambridge, England then all of this is just basically guess work on your part. I don't really feel the need to go over our business plan and how all our staff work - but Stuart, Craig, John and all our other guys are full time employees - we do perfectly fine as a business - so I guess we are doing something right.

You're right, I don't have spy cameras or other sorts of recording devices. so I guess this is more of a moot point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zardon

I am a little confused - how exactly do you feel I/we are running the forum side of this site as a 'business' - if you mean we are professional, courteous and are now in the position to upload daily news and content then I will take that as a compliment. I however get the feeling you mean it in a degoritory manner that we "don't care about anyone" and are more interested in the $$ now? I fail to see how I can prove to you that my heart is still in this community because if I (or craig) already don't give the impression then clearly we are doing something wrong. I do try and make the time to answer people when I can, and I know Craig still feels this place is his home and this is why he, Stuart and the rest of the team end up working well past our normal 9-5 hours.

Because over the years you have made references on how DH needs money to survive. I've read some of your posts on this before in the past about there not being enough money. These kinds of comments, although few and far between, are what make me feel that it's more about the money rather than the community.

Zardon · Sep 16, 2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDsDontBurn

Right, there aren't enough details in Marty's style of doing gaming news.'

Its for a different audience on the front page - its an idea which seems to be working and for the more intense forum users there is always mig's style of posting which seems to appeal to a certain audience. I think we cover most bases on that front.

Quote:

Geminiwave, pr0digalJenius, and most recently Iria. All have made points about DH and/or its staff and how it's run. Because of this, they have left DH. I wouldn't be surprised if there are others as well.

I wouldn't be surprised either - in any community regardless of it being online or offline people will fall out and some people will leave. Others will be forced to leave - we can't please everyone, we can just make the best calls we can - sometimes people don't like those calls. That's life - but unfortunately at the end of the day someone has to make the rules or its mayhem. That person on DH is me - so I will always be the figurehead of whatever happens, good or bad. Im fine with that.

Quote:

I remember this time. During this time, we also received a special medal for giving donations to keep the site going.

I know losing silver/ gold medal status is still a sore point for some people as it was felt that we were removing something you 'earned'. I unfortunately feel it caused a certain elitism with specific users and it ended up a little of an issue for us. We don't really need donations anymore so no one has to dip into their pocket here, its free. Not much in life is free anymore.

Quote:

Reading language and hearing language are two different things. In most situations granted, reading language is the same as hearing language. On this, or any forum for that matter, reading language is all an interpretation of the reader.

I know in some instances, such as in some BFG threads as you mentioned, I have come off a bit aggressive. It's just that after a point had been made about the useability of DH and it had appeared that nothing had been done about it after some time, it's just human nature to go from asking, to patient, and then to aggression.

This is an interesting point in that you say it is human nature to go from being patient to aggressive. That outlook is well and good, but you have to remember while you are being 'patient' and then 'aggressive' that it is expected of Craig and myself to always remain perfectly clear headed and to listen to certain amounts of abuse and accept it. Try looking outside your own situation and perhaps take in the big picture here. If I was aggressive to you,. you would be offended because im the big bad admin with all the power, right? Some members feel its part of my job to take abuse and just accept it. I feel i take a fair bit in email and PM on the site, but im a big boy.

I am just like all you guys, I get pissed off, I get tired and sometimes things are said that I don't always mean. Hopefully we all are big enough to get over it. I have always tried to be courteous with you because I like you - always have. Some of those guys you point out who left and blame me/us for it aren't exactly little angels - three sides to every story - your side, their side and the truth. I don't have time to sit and dwell on it - I make judgement calls when needed and move on. We have too many good things to write and publish, things which are read by an increasing audience. For me, its all about the community and the content.

Quote:

I know it's not your fault about how the navbar works. It's just something that has been pointed out before.

Well it is actually our fault and we intend to make changes to it. Its a process of finding time to fix it and get something better and not just 'different'

Quote:

As for behind the scenes, this is true anywhere. An example would be a restaurant. The guest is being served by the waiter(ess) and if something is wrong or good, the waiter(ess) takes the fault/compliment. The cook behind the scenes would probably not know about a compliment, but would definitely know about a complaint! But as you said, DH's "cooks" are working on a way to make the navbar better.

I will take the steak, well done.

Quote:

intellitext is the one where certain words are underlined and if you hove your mouse over that particular word it brings up a balloon like window right? if so, then yes, i'd much rather prefer this one ad in the middle!

Yep, it is and I hate them - I think we all hate the same things. Ads with sounds. Full page take over ads with "click here to continue". Popups. Text links on words on the site to sell advertising.

Flash ads? yeah I hate them myself, they hog CPU time, they annoy me. But they also pay all the peoples wages who work on delivering everything here for free.

Quote:

As for not receiving any complaints about this particular ad, perhaps these people would rather just not post and "fade away" rather than speak up?

Perhaps, but its a hard process for us to make changes if people don't express their views. For all I know 2,000 women on this site want to marry me, if they don't ask I cant vet them for hotness.

Quote:

Then why not add this particular section and let it run for a few months to see how it goes? If it doesn't go well then it could be removed.

Maybe we can try it, but don't you honestly think the off topic is good enough for posting about cars? Why specifically do you think we need a dedicated forum just for cars?

Quote:

It would definitely be nice to see you more throughout the boards on the public side as currently I see more of Craig. I wouldn't call you or Craig, "suit wearing ogres" as you put it because your overall intention is for the better of DH.

I would love to be on the forums more. I will be honest however - I have not been particularly well for over a year now. I only have part of a kidney left and I had damage to my lungs, head and legs as well as my liver in a bike accident last year. I am sure a lot of people are quite overjoyed and giggling to hear that, but almost ALL of my life is dedicated to getting up content on this site. I frequently work 10-12 hour days here. thats my sob story - so apologies if I seem a lot 'less active' on the forums. I do read them when I can - maybe I need to try and fit in more forum time with you all.

Quote:

Because over the years you have made references on how DH needs money to survive. I've read some of your posts on this before in the past about there not being enough money. These kinds of comments, although few and far between, are what make me feel that it's more about the money rather than the community.

Driverheaven has changed - I used to run it all on my own with Craig and Stuarts free help when they stopped their jobs. I made changes to the backing of it and I am now only one of a few company directors and these other guys although unknown to you all help massively with the running of the company while I concentrate all my time on driverheaven and gamingheaven. This involves liasing with company representatives, getting samples for review, getting competition prizes and it requires working daily with Craig on design work and site implementations as well as working with Stuart, John, Grace, Danny and all our other staff.

Due to the changes, we can afford to pay people to work for us, these guys who worked for years for nothing for me, now have a job and we can dedicate all our time to this site by delivering daily content and a lot more than we ever could without making the changes.

If you feel we have sold out, or I am all about the money, that really is something I can't change. Its a little sad you would think that, but hey thats life - not everyone can think I am awesome.

Callandor · Sep 16, 2009, 11:26 PM

I still think you are awesome Zardon, if that helps, and that there is still no place on the web like Driverheaven.

***craig5320*** · Sep 17, 2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comp_ali

Okay. I have some notes. I see you review some games that doesn't have many fans out there. while there are other games that are more popular. For examble you haven't ever reviewed a soccer game while you reviewed some games for other sports.

I beg to differ Ali, have you ever visited GamingHeaven?

Pro Evo 09: http://www.gamingheaven.net/gamingre...p?reviewid=649

Fifa 09: http://www.gamingheaven.net/gamingre...p?reviewid=644

Pro Evo 08: http://www.gamingheaven.net/gamingre...p?reviewid=572

Fifa 08: http://www.gamingheaven.net/gamingre...fa08/index.php

Pro Evo 6: http://www.gamingheaven.net/gamingre...tion_soccer_6/

Quote:

I know tastes are different but you may do something like making an updated list of " Upcoming games that need review " and people vote or thumb up/down for each game and the highest ranked games being reviewed and if there some extra time in reviewers hand they can review the lower ranked ones.

John handles our reviews, and he reviews what he can source, often he has access to previews which is great, and sometimes there's not a lot going on, and we publish these "lower ranked" games.

Quote:

And remember it will rain tons of mighty games in the coming three months like Star Wars , Alpha Protocol , Blur , Dragon Age: Origins , Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 , Assassin's Creed II , Left 4 Dead 2 , Dirt 2 , The Saboteur ,....etc.

Assassin's Creed II preview: http://www.gamingheaven.net/gamingre...p?reviewid=818

Dirt 2 review: http://www.gamingheaven.net/gamingre...p?reviewid=812

Quote:

I am actually pissed off form "win 'n' run " user . You know that there are thousands of people just register to enter the competitions after that they vanish and don't participate in community and even who won something as well. That's mean . I know it is very bad to make restrictions like other sites do like a minimal posts to enter contests but it seems people don't understand that.

This is life, if we restrict it to dedicated members or have a minimum post count - which we've tried in the past, you simply get a thousand John Does replying "yes I agree" to every post on the forum before eventually entering the competition and leaving. If people decide not to particpate in the forum, then it's their loss. If they win a prize and don't comeback then they probably wouldn't make a good member that we want on the site anyway.

Thanks for your feedback. I will be making a smiley thread in feedback or off-topic shortly.

***craig5320*** · Sep 17, 2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolletje

Well, at the moment the site is nice. If it wasn't i wouldn't be here

However I have some problems with pics posted in the forums. Some people don't resize (or thumb them) the image and sometimes it's a really high resolution (straight from the camera). This slows up the whole thing since all the pictures are often hosted at Imageshack or something like that.

Example (no offence skylineaddict

):

So maybe some solutions:

- Cap on the max width of an image (say 500-600 or so)
- DH userspace (like a couple MB for images)

This will not f*ck up the lay-out and it will load faster.

I will take a look at automatic image resizing, there are add-ons that will resize images to a given size but allow you to click the image to make it full size again.

GigaWatt · Sep 17, 2009, 05:35 PM

i have some suggestions, that i've made in the past too, but obviously, no one was interested enough to even answer them...

actually it's only one suggestion, that there is a general technical discussion section, but not related to PCs... like a subforum of some kind only for technical appliances (DVD players, LCD TVs, CRT TVs, audio equipment - professional and semiprofessional, stereos, VCRs, etc...) where people can talk about what they have bought or haw they might fix their old TV or stereo, or how they just want to make some sort of a circuit that controls or emulates something, or how they can improve the picture or/and audio quality of their old TV, stereo... whatever... stuff that is not necessarily related to PCs, but more related to electronics on a more "basic" (technical, electronic) level... like repairing stuff... cuz, let's face it, repairing PCs is not as nearly as hard as repairing appliances, or any other king of equipment that is not modular...

a subfroum like this would probaly have topics with service manuals in it, repairing tips, soldering tips, tweaking tips (even about PCs, but more on a hardware level, like schematics for adapters of all sorts, like USB-To-LPT port converters, etc.), warnings about products that have proven to be unstable and break often, EPROM programming, tutorials for ASM languages of different manufacturers of microcontrollers, pin assignments for different sorts of connectors, ports, etc...

i know that there are thousands of forums like this on the net (i'm a member of few), but i wanna see that here, on DH as well...

A Desire to Game · Sep 17, 2009, 08:58 PM

I'd have to say your articles are the most visually appealing and thorough by far. Your testing methods are top notch.

I think the only thing I would like to see would be some videos thrown into reviews. Maybe actual gameplay footage on your test rig?

Dunno, I really have to dig deep to give any sort of suggestion for improvement.

***craig5320*** · Sep 17, 2009, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigaWatt

i have some suggestions, that i've made in the past too, but obviously, no one was interested enough to even answer them...

actually it's only one suggestion, that there is a general technical discussion section, but not related to PCs... like a subforum of some kind only for technical appliances (DVD players, LCD TVs, CRT TVs, audio equipment - professional and semiprofessional, stereos, VCRs, etc...) where people can talk about what they have bought or haw they might fix their old TV or stereo, or how they just want to make some sort of a circuit that controls or emulates something, or how they can improve the picture or/and audio quality of their old TV, stereo... whatever... stuff that is not necessarily related to PCs, but more related to electronics on a more "basic" (technical, electronic) level... like repairing stuff... cuz, let's face it, repairing PCs is not as nearly as hard as repairing appliances, or any other king of equipment that is not modular...

a subfroum like this would probaly have topics with service manuals in it, repairing tips, soldering tips, tweaking tips (even about PCs, but more on a hardware level, like schematics for adapters of all sorts, like USB-To-LPT port converters, etc.), warnings about products that have proven to be unstable and break often, EPROM programming, tutorials for ASM languages of different manufacturers of microcontrollers, pin assignments for different sorts of connectors, ports, etc...

i know that there are thousands of forums like this on the net (i'm a member of few), but i wanna see that here, on DH as well...

New forum sections are always hot debates, but often none of the members requesting them are in agreement on the new topic for a forum.

If we have lots of members asking for the same new section it would be a no brainer.

You've gone into some detail with your suggestion and I do actually like it, but I don't know how many technical residents, yourself aside we would have to post in such a forum.

If people are interested in that sort of topic and discussion chances are like yourself they are already members at a few forums dedicated to the topic already, so I'm not sure what DH would offer them.

I will put it forward as a possible forum to be trialled.

comp_ali · Sep 17, 2009, 09:29 PM

Me myself I want some electronic device repairing tutorials

Zardon · Sep 17, 2009, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Desire to Game

Dunno, I really have to dig deep to give any sort of suggestion for improvement.

Well thats a good sign!

GigaWatt · Sep 18, 2009, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig5320

New forum sections are always hot debates, but often none of the members requesting them are in agreement on the new topic for a forum.

If we have lots of members asking for the same new section it would be a no brainer.

You've gone into some detail with your suggestion and I do actually like it, but I don't know how many technical residents, yourself aside we would have to post in such a forum.

If people are interested in that sort of topic and discussion chances are like yourself they are already members at a few forums dedicated to the topic already, so I'm not sure what DH would offer them.

I will put it forward as a possible forum to be trialled.

well, it was a nice thought anyway... i'm just glad i got an answer (

) cuz i wrote it as a suggestion for a subforum once or twice (i really can't remember), but i had no replies from any of the admins or mods, so i thought they just flew right by the post...

yeah, subforums like that require lots of expertese in the field of electronics, and i know that most of the memebers currently active on DH wouldn't post in the subforum, except maybe for cell phone repair/flashing (which is a start, i have no objection to that, even though i have verry little experience in that field), but i thought as time went by, more and more people would join and would help to improve the quality and the quantity of the posts...

the only problem i could think of right now would be that some of the tweaking/repairing/flashing might be done with software (or hardware) tools that in some ways are considered "illegal" (made by enthusiasts that want to help the community, but have no legal right to make the software/hardware tool for some particular product from some company), and as we all know, that's against DH rules... i'm really bummed about this one... :S

anyway, it was a nice thought...

and thanks for even considering it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by comp_ali

Me myself I want some electronic device repairing tutorials

thanks for the backup ali...

... it means A LOT...

Sep 16, 2009, 08:23 AM	#31
ET3D Hopeless Dreamer Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Dreamland, near the pool of infinite graphics cards Posts: 3,055 Rep Power: 103 System Specs	Re: DriverHeaven feedback No complaints here. Though wasn't there some idea in the past about reviewing phones? Whatever came of that? Or is my mind just playing tricks on me?

Sep 16, 2009, 02:20 PM	#36
comp_ali Sniper Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Egypt Posts: 10,441 Rep Power: 331 System Specs	Re: DriverHeaven feedback What happened to "more smilies" suggestion ? __________________

Sep 16, 2009, 03:33 PM	#38
comp_ali Sniper Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Egypt Posts: 10,441 Rep Power: 331 System Specs	Re: DriverHeaven feedback Nice , how about those , will look for more later Edit : oops I just found you have added off topic smiley in your post already. __________________

Sep 16, 2009, 03:41 PM	Thread Starter #39
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 177	Re: DriverHeaven feedback Those are absolutely hideous.

Sep 16, 2009, 03:57 PM	#40
SeraphicSorcerer HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 2,295 Rep Power: 154 System Specs	Re: DriverHeaven feedback I was just wondering from a site perspective, if you guys could do any parternships with newegg etc. To get us even better deals since you do reviews, and link to their sites, I don't know if you're aware of HardOCP's hard daily deals or whatever, but something like that with a NEWLY REVIEWED product would be AWESOME. Just saying. We're all geeks here. right? Chic Geeks, even. As far as navigation, I don't know what it is, but somehow the forums seems "Far" from everything else, I think it should be like BAM on the front page, a more prominent placement. Because the community here is why i actually post. etc. I think we've got a great community so advertising it would be better for everyone. __________________

Sep 16, 2009, 04:01 PM	#41
comp_ali Sniper Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Egypt Posts: 10,441 Rep Power: 331 System Specs	Re: DriverHeaven feedback @ Z really , so you prefer the small ones. __________________

Sep 16, 2009, 04:20 PM	#42
*craig5320* HH Administrator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 8,282 Rep Power: 428 System Specs	Re: DriverHeaven feedback Most of those Ali are probably too big to look well in the smiley box, and all would have to be coloured to match the blue that we use. We want to avoid smilies for the sake of smilies, most of them the glasses, laughing, tongue out we already have smilies for. I like this one: which could have a place, along with the OT one and the clapping one I posted. __________________

Sep 16, 2009, 06:30 PM	#45
comp_ali Sniper Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Egypt Posts: 10,441 Rep Power: 331 System Specs	Re: DriverHeaven feedback Man It is hard to find blue ones , here is more __________________

Sep 16, 2009, 07:13 PM	Thread Starter #46
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 177	Re: DriverHeaven feedback While its nice you are helping us with smilies Comp Ali, I would like other feedback in here so I consider the smily 'debate' closed in here (or confined to another thread anyway). Thanks.

Sep 16, 2009, 08:41 PM	#47
Bolletje HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,224 Rep Power: 77 System Specs	Re: DriverHeaven feedback Well, at the moment the site is nice. If it wasn't i wouldn't be here However I have some problems with pics posted in the forums. Some people don't resize (or thumb them) the image and sometimes it's a really high resolution (straight from the camera). This slows up the whole thing since all the pictures are often hosted at Imageshack or something like that. Example (no offence skylineaddict ): So maybe some solutions: - Cap on the max width of an image (say 500-600 or so) - DH userspace (like a couple MB for images) This will not f*ck up the lay-out and it will load faster.

Sep 16, 2009, 08:51 PM	#48
Neshi S.N.A.F.U. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Wellington, NZ Posts: 3,260 Rep Power: 150 System Specs	Re: DriverHeaven feedback the option is already there with the attachments option in the "advanced" posting screen, this will make the photo's thumbnails. But if people don't use that, or the shrinking to thumbnails on the hosting site itself... __________________ If one does not attach himself to people and desire, never shall his heart be broken. But then, does he ever truly live? Life is just too damn short for if's and maybe's

Sep 16, 2009, 08:53 PM	#49
comp_ali Sniper Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Egypt Posts: 10,441 Rep Power: 331 System Specs	Re: DriverHeaven feedback Okay. I have some notes. I see you review some games that doesn't have many fans out there. while there are other games that are more popular. For examble you haven't ever reviewed a soccer game while you reviewed some games for other sports. I know tastes are different but you may do something like making an updated list of " Upcoming games that need review " and people vote or thumb up/down for each game and the highest ranked games being reviewed and if there some extra time in reviewers hand they can review the lower ranked ones. And remember it will rain tons of mighty games in the coming three months like Star Wars , Alpha Protocol , Blur , Dragon Age: Origins , Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 , Assassin's Creed II , Left 4 Dead 2 , Dirt 2 , The Saboteur ,....etc. I am actually pissed off form "win 'n' run " user . You know that there are thousands of people just register to enter the competitions after that they vanish and don't participate in community and even who won something as well. That's mean . I know it is very bad to make restrictions like other sites do like a minimal posts to enter contests but it seems people don't understand that. __________________

Sep 16, 2009, 11:26 PM	#52
Callandor Forged on Dragonmount Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 6,876 Rep Power: 256 System Specs	Re: DriverHeaven feedback I still think you are awesome Zardon, if that helps, and that there is still no place on the web like Driverheaven. __________________

Sep 17, 2009, 05:35 PM	#55
GigaWatt Now In Color :D Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Macedonia, Skopje Posts: 2,116 Rep Power: 79 System Specs	Re: DriverHeaven feedback i have some suggestions, that i've made in the past too, but obviously, no one was interested enough to even answer them... actually it's only one suggestion, that there is a general technical discussion section, but not related to PCs... like a subforum of some kind only for technical appliances (DVD players, LCD TVs, CRT TVs, audio equipment - professional and semiprofessional, stereos, VCRs, etc...) where people can talk about what they have bought or haw they might fix their old TV or stereo, or how they just want to make some sort of a circuit that controls or emulates something, or how they can improve the picture or/and audio quality of their old TV, stereo... whatever... stuff that is not necessarily related to PCs, but more related to electronics on a more "basic" (technical, electronic) level... like repairing stuff... cuz, let's face it, repairing PCs is not as nearly as hard as repairing appliances, or any other king of equipment that is not modular... a subfroum like this would probaly have topics with service manuals in it, repairing tips, soldering tips, tweaking tips (even about PCs, but more on a hardware level, like schematics for adapters of all sorts, like USB-To-LPT port converters, etc.), warnings about products that have proven to be unstable and break often, EPROM programming, tutorials for ASM languages of different manufacturers of microcontrollers, pin assignments for different sorts of connectors, ports, etc... i know that there are thousands of forums like this on the net (i'm a member of few), but i wanna see that here, on DH as well... __________________ It's not schisophrenia... it's just a voice in my head...

Sep 17, 2009, 08:58 PM	#56
A Desire to Game HardwareHeaven Hoosier Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 279 Rep Power: 29 System Specs	Re: DriverHeaven feedback I'd have to say your articles are the most visually appealing and thorough by far. Your testing methods are top notch. I think the only thing I would like to see would be some videos thrown into reviews. Maybe actual gameplay footage on your test rig? Dunno, I really have to dig deep to give any sort of suggestion for improvement. __________________ Three is my new favorite number. (SATA III, USB 3.0, and triple channel memory)

Sep 17, 2009, 09:29 PM	#58
comp_ali Sniper Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Egypt Posts: 10,441 Rep Power: 331 System Specs	Re: DriverHeaven feedback Me myself I want some electronic device repairing tutorials __________________