Stop It

Hello there everyone.

Mythical and myself have been talking on Steam about this place a bit, and a common issue we share is the news here, or rather, how it is handled.

Now, HH is becoming more and more of a creator of news (With its own editorials, articles etc), which has made the HH newsroom a viable and interesting source of tech news, and is something that I hope to see expand and develop in 2010.

That's a good thing, but it leaves a legacy channel of news that is fast becoming ignored, and is in danger of undermining this site entirely, this is the "other news" section (And some of the gaming news content). As we all know, it is basically re-posts of other sites news, fed via news feeds and nicely posted (usually) by Mig or Comp Ali (on the gaming side).

Now, a few years ago, it was great because there wasn't much content coming from the HeavenMedia side of things, nowadays, it's totally different. Not only does it get in the way, and of course, actively promote the competition, but the masses of empty, barely read threads makes the sections of the forums look desolate and slightly sad.

In my honest opinion, there is enough tech news being posted on HH for there not to be a need to post any non HH tech news, on the gaming side I think we're getting there, but probably 6-12 months away from self sufficiency. Once that is achieved, HH would be well on its way to becoming seen as a proper news outlet, not just a parrot for the other players.

Now, I want to state that I am NOT criticising the work the news posters (esp Mig who I have a lot of time for) do here, I just feel their time will be better spent helping to create the news, rather than just re-post other peoples.

Thanks for your time.

Lee

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Veridian3

Thanks for the thoughts Lee. This is something that Craig and I both feel needs attention and we will be looking at the options asap. If anyone else has any thoughts please post them here so we can take them into account during our discussions.

craig5320

As Stu said, we both feel it needs attention. The original "industry" news that we syndicate has been a backbone of the frontpage since we started, recently focus was moved away from it to our own news.

Producing our own news was a trial really, it's always been a goal for the site and we very pleased with the success of the news section.

So any feedback is welcome to the direction of the news section the more input the better.

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HardwareHeaven on Facebook

BlueMak

I am against the idea of removing, now or soon, the posting of news from other "news" sources. No matter how good you are, there will always be something that you missed. One of the great things about HH is that you can also check news that are not from HH. It doesn't matter how big the HH source becomes, I believe there is always the need for extra.
I rather read even the titles on HH than spending who knows how much time looking through numerous sites to find the same info I can here in 5 seconds.

HH has nothing to be afraid of, like losing visitors to other sites. No sane people would choose to leave HH.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Tyrsonswood

I use HardwareHeaven as my tech news hub, I'm not a news junky but if I read something on another site, I found out about it here through the "other news" sections. I see a place for both, maybe somewhat modified, but I use both myself.

One thing I have noticed recently are repeat posts in the other news sections. No harm in that, but I get a "Wait.... didn't I read this before" moment...... at my age I worry about those moments.

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SeraphicSorcerer

I think the box for the other news does need to be enlarged....

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Optix

I go to some pretty wonky sites to toss out some news items when I can. They may not always get moved by MIG but quite a few have been commented on like my entry from the EVGA Team's Twitter page showing their dual CPU board, which has now been showcased at CES.

I'd like to see the Other News section kept around.

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MIG-31

That thread was not moved as i don't take Twitter as a Legit Source (BTW Twiiter is a load of wasted space imo).

Just to add i do not ignore any posts in "Submit News",Just because i have not said anything in the thread does not mean i have ignored it.

Its the same with the odd post in "Submit" thats hosted from china or japan.All links/Sources are best to be posted in English as this site uses english as the default language.I can't vouch for the amount of Chinese or Japanese members view HH,But the percentage is English..

The couple of others that was not moved is due to the date..No articles older than 3 days go on the front page.Or it depends on the source thats provided (I won't say why or which sites)..

Thanks for mentioning it but im sure your aware i have rules to follow also..

Lol.. Yes thats so true.I receive many Press release via email,And yes one or two do get coppied over into "other Tech News" but thats a problem down to the time difference from the source and the uk.

It makes it kind of awkwared..

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BlueMak

you got that right mister!



Considering the amount of news items flowing in, I can understand a couple of duplicates being posted.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Stop It

First of all, thanks for replying all, some interesting replies, yet I think some people are thinking because they are loyal to HardwareHeaven, that everyone visiting here is, which simply is not true.

The vast majority of people currently viewing this site are guests, unregistered users, they are not like you Bluemak and the other Gold members, and I'm willing to bet that the turnover of users here is quite high. This, coupled with the fact that the "Other news" section is full of links to other tech sites means that many people come here only to leave just as quickly.

Think of it this way, this is what can happen under the current situation:
User A goes to HH, sees news post linking to site "AwesomeTechExpress", User A goes there, likes the content, stays. That user is lost to HH (and its advertising partners), forever.

With a self contained, viable news service at HH, this would happen:
User B goes to HH, sees news post, follows link to...HH! User goes "Ooh, this site is awesome" stays, and hopefully even joins the community.

Now, Stu and Craig will obviously already know this, but I have a feeling that some people are mixing up personal opinions on whether they look at the "other news " section with my point, which is regarding the viability of HardwareHeaven is a tech site, in my view hinges on being an actual news creator. After all, the more reasons to stay here, and not have to leave, the better! A proper one stop shop for gaming and tech news, reviews and opinions, this is what HH needs to become.

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comp_ali

I think both HH News Room and sourced news (Tech/Gaming) can co-exist together. In fact there are too much events that News Room can handle . Also , people trust HH that's why they are here instead of wandering through tens of sites searching for news. We collect and purify the news and post it in one place to save readers time. Regarding Gaming news specifically they aren't just news , there are articles , screenshots comparsions between different systems ,trailers , leaked gameplay videos....etc. From what I see the numbers of viewers for sourced news is too good to be sacrificed.

MIG-31

Yes that does happen... But it's not just me Dupped from HHN Room.

I have Posted a few Emailed Press Releases in the past just to find Zardon up the same PR two days after..

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crowTrobot

IMO People will frequent a news site not because they have their own news but more because of layout and ease of access. Just look at Slashdot or Engadget or hell even Fark.

IvanV

I don't think that it's just about loyalty, when you're looking for your daily tech news fix, a site that aggregates news from other top sources is a really good place to start. I believe, and administrative staff with site visit statistics can say if it's true, that the period that lasted until very recently, when HH didn't have it's own news, proves that people find this attractive (I know that I do). And with the current evolution, I think that they just have more reason to visit regularly than before.

I think that a tabbed headlines area, with first (and default) tab showing "our" news and the second one switching to headlines carried over from other sites, would be nice.

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If anyone has Portal 2 and hasn't played the co-op and wants to do me a favour, let me know (PM me or whatever).

BlueMak

Yes, and Ali too, and others. I have noticed. It's not a big deal considering the huge amount of news. I don't see anything wrong with it.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

BlueMak

What makes you think that visitors like that will actually stay at the other end? Especially if there is a steady HH sourced news "feed"? I am not saying that people don't just click on the link to another site and never return, just not sure if removing the "other news" would be a good move for the site, even with increase of "native" news. More people will visit this site for the native news, but there will continue to be a steady traffic from the other section too, no?


I agree. No matter how much I care for HH/GH, I don't believe any single site can replace in coverage all the rest put together. It can try, and it would be cool, but if people like this site (and more will with more and more native news section) they will keep visiting.



Of course, you guys know better (see the numbers etc), then it is your decision to make.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Optix

I'm aware that not everything gets approved and moved over but some of what doesn't make the grade still encourages conversation. Anything that I may post I don't really expect it to get moved over since I know how much news you get in the run of a day.

I suppose those types of threads could be posted in the hardware/motherboard sections.

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MIG-31

Admin will have all the tools to survey what goes on within the whole of HH and also the indevidual forum(s)...

I understand your point about Moving Posts to a spacific forum.. However i know News is to Atract New Members to View news and comment (that goes to both news forums) thats just left up to the new member who joins up..

But i have been here for many years,As for some of the threads that i have moved to (For Example) Hardware support (even Left with a Redirect) have hardly ever gained any replies afterwards and have died away in the same way leaving them where they are originally posted.. (Unless it's something that is way offtopic)

Thats partly why i leave them in "Submit News" it may not work for all..

So we will see i have moved your EVGA Mobo thread to Hardware Discussion..

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MIG-31

Thankyou for that Lee... This is the first i seen this part,(I may of overlooked this part) And i appreciate you mentioning it..

As i have not told any one in public before (always kept this to myself and admin) If i was asked to create News by myself i would stand down immediately due to personal reasons...

That would be something i simply could not handle at all..

I have always enjoyed helping out DH (Typo HH) as best as i can...

Im actually Dyslexic and Slightly Autistic..So if i do sound a little harsh or rude at times..

I assure its not personal.

Im just diong the best as i can as Volunteer Mod here and i can't say any more than that.

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Stop It

No worries Mig, I've never seen you be rude to me or pretty much anyone, you're a vital member of the community here so there's no need to explain yourself.

Also, as I am dyslexic also I know exactly what you mean as news creation sounds a lot more scary, but really, "creating" news isn't a huge amount different from your current role, it just comes from different sources.

Most of the news posts made by tech sites, including this ones own content, is fed via PR channels, the only difference between that and posting another tech sites news? The name on the email! The only extra bit of work in some cases may be the need to write a sentence introducing the news, and even then, I'm sure most companies think of that too.

The fact of the matter is, every announcement/PR came from somewhere, and rather than relying on other sites to relay it, more contacts need to be found so HH becomes a port of call for these PR people, rather than making you have to wait for other sites to post it.

Of course, articles/reviews/opinion/speculation pieces are different, and maybe should be treated separately, but for stuff like "XYZ announced", "ABC sells lots", "It's official, cats > dogs" there shouldn't even be a need to rely on a 2nd party.

As I said before, I am not belittling the work being done here, as frankly, it's far more effort than I have ever put into D...HH, but as I keep on getting drilled into me at work, working hard is good, working smart is better.
Nor do you need to, I am not judging you, or trying to call your position into question here, and I apologise if I have caused you any offence, because I sincerely didn't mean to cause any.

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MIG-31

Its not personall to you,I used the last quote (Above Post) as an example and nothing more than that.

Im not offended by this thread you started off.. You have something to say whats on youre mind... Nothing wrong with that..

What i said above was more towards the Newer Members who use Submit Forum IE Optix.

I know how News works currently,But just take note it maytake a small amount of time to catch up if the style changes..

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[hobo]eclipse

i really like ivans idea of having two tabs on the main page, our own news up front and center first, and an "other tech news from around the web" (of some sort) tab. keep the forums the same, with a forum entry for both ours and their news.

im confused about what you mean though stopit about barley read threads and making things look desolate, aren't all news topics posted to either of their respected forums, be it others news or our own?

where i feel i see an issue is when others news is posted along with an article of our own on the same subject matter, with a discussion going on in each, possibly unbeknown to those in discussion.

* EDIT after reading my own post though i see the catch 22 i presented you with, lol. keeping a forum post for each, but the problem of 2 different discussions going on. maybe some way to link the 2 together. if that was possible without it being to much a hassle in co-ordinating what has and hasn't been posted in both others news and our own.

MythicaL

This thread needs to become back on track. There are mixed responses here that don't quite relate to the intent of the original post.

Anyways, the concern me and Stop It share is that a lot of the "re-posted" news makes the site look bad, possibly hindering the potential growth of the site. It's not about whether or not you like that section for obtaining news.

So, now that everyone is clear of the intended direction of the thread, what are some of the opinions people have?

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Always knew I didn't belong in this world. I wasn't made for this. But I'll never forget those who betrayed me, and those who never failed my trust.

[hobo]eclipse

i cant see at all how this makes the site look bad, but hey, i dont run one. having your own news along with others news on the same thing just helps the credibility and the reliability of our news posting. especially in the earlier stages of HH own news. Not that we regulars wouln't believe, but for the masses. The discussion aspect of the 2 threads on the same news just needs to be tied together somehow.

maybe somehow the topic link in each of the 2 forum sections that are discussing the same news can link to the same discussion on the matter, with a link to the HH news posting in the others tech news posting. Similair to what is done when a game review is posted from off site and a GH review link is placed along with the link to the off site review. Of course there is no need to post a link to the others news in the HH news posting.

Tril

I don't like to say this (because I sound like a newbie) but english is not my first language so I may not choose the correct words to express what I want to say. I just want to show my view of things to give you ideas.

It's not the same here in the news section since Iria stopped posting news. There's a lot less news posted now. I've got no idea if it's good or bad. I'll just say that I read many of those news to keep up to date with misc tech news.

From what I can see, HH is now less about posting misc tech news and more about posting news around the subject of computer hardware and gaming. Since that's the case, it might be fine to stop posting misc tech news like you did when Iria stopped posting.

I don't mind HH posting computer hardware and gaming news linking to other tech sites. However, there should be guidelines for choosing what should be posted and what should not.

I've got a suggestion for guidelines to decide what should be posted and what should not. Since HH makes computer hardware and gaming reviews, you could stop posting links to computer hardwre and gaming reviews on other tech sites. If I want to read reviews not available on HH, I'll use google to find them. I want to see news about new games coming out or new DLC coming out or new hardware coming out so I want HH to continue posting them.

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MIG-31

A) When iria was posting news in quantity i suppose yopu did not notice how many of the links wher Tech-EX (Which was his own blog account)..Which was just a Bloggers site in principle.

B) I have a private forum for news so there is certain parts about news that nobody but staff and com_ali can see..

C) I was also asked to slow down a little on the News posting so they don't fly off the front page to fast..Where as Iria could simply post up 2 pages of news within a few hours meaning many of them got overlooked.

It's certainly not an easy thing to for HH,But i have always taken this site as Tech.

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comp_ali

For me , I skip some less important gaming news , maybe I am wrong but I believe that quality should be over quantity . If I post every news I find , the news forums will be flooded.
About creating news , I already post an opening sentence in case the source doesn't have like new screenshots or something. Because I am non native , it will take a lot of time to create a big news post and it may be hindered by grammar/spelling mistakes if I do that for every thread.

Veridian3

Thanks for the responses all, we are still watching the thread. I have one question at the moment.

On the topic of what type of news should be posted, in OUR OWN news section, what are peoples thoughts? Should it be very closely related to computer hardware or are you guys wanting to know about Phones, TVs maybe even out as far as things link cool new sat-nav stuff?

Whats the limit?

BlueMak

This of course is very subjective.
I don't mind tech outside of computers, but things like sat-nav I find very unappealing. I feel they are more about cars (not HH), than eh, HH.
Things that I would like to see, but not at the expense of computer hardware, are gadgets, mobile phones, TVs, DAPs, "hi-tech" stuff.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

IvanV

I'd prefer it if the non hardware/software news were limited to those that contain a technological innovation or a breakthrough of some sort. For example, if a company started serial production of OLED TVs, that would be something I'd care to read about on HH whereas a "new and improved" series of Sony Bravia LCD TVs wouldn't.

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If anyone has Portal 2 and hasn't played the co-op and wants to do me a favour, let me know (PM me or whatever).