PowerVR now, everyone say it with me ;)

Yeti · May 9, 2002, 08:10 PM

This is my first and last post in this section

Powervr Kyro's kick Nvidia and ATI arse. Anything Q3 based (e.g. DX7) Runs amazingly well.

Q3, Urban Terror, Soldier of Fortune 2, Return to castle wolfenstein, MOHAA.

It also provides excellent quality performance under Tribes 2, (90 fps 800x600)!

Q3 High Quality (except Trilinear filtering off) 1024x768 165fps!!!!!

Why no trilinear filtering? Well i don't know about you , but i like to turn up the mip map lod settings up by +3 so every texture is rendered from its original full size (not a scaled down mip map). E.G. Even the furthest objects are clear and crisp. When i do so i personally can't tell the difference between any of the Filtering modes, even anisotrophic.

As for DX8, well you name me one good DX8 game so far?

UberLord · May 9, 2002, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yeti

As for DX8, well you name me one good DX8 game so far?

Dungeon Siege

Jeff · May 9, 2002, 08:19 PM

Max Payne.

lith · May 9, 2002, 08:19 PM

Morrowind, I believe.
I had a Kyro I 32MB right before my Radeon 8500. I have to say that the only improvement I've witnessed (and I did a *LOT* of testing and benchmarking between the two) was in villagemark. Unfortunately, even this 8500 whips the kyro in that now. But I cannot say the same for the Kyro II. Who knows what the 3rd rendition of the card will be, but who cares. nVidia's got some lean shit, ATI's coming out with the baby smacker, and Matrox is probably full of shit

Yeti · May 9, 2002, 08:36 PM

Shit!!

Despite my oath, i have to post.

Well lets take a pitch

Dungeon seige sucks. I got it the day it came out (burnt of course). I played it with some of my firends. I beat it in two days. I went online. It still sucked. I cheated (out of desperation) it still sucks. As for performance, the Kyro II ran faster at 1024x768 than my friends GF3. (And looked better). If you want dungeon seige e-mail me and i wont send it to you (lol , no way i'm sending 1.5 gigs of cd images.!!!). Well, maybe if you have something that i want (i am on a T3 line so it might work out). Btw, for all those wondering you can run Dungeon Seige using Daemon tools to mount a virtual image of the CD. And it works online! lol no Cd keys like Diablo.

Lesse, Max Payne, did that about 2 months ago.(BTW, its not full DX8, or so i have been led to believe) Borrowed it from a friend, it ran fine at 1024x768. Fine as in i played it and i enjoyed it. I didn't benchmark it, and i wasn't running Fraps at the time, so i can't give you an fps. (Anyone else hat the levels where your stoned and have to walk thsoe thin lines ... cough*crack*cough)

Any others?

Yeti · May 9, 2002, 08:41 PM

Right, Morrowind, haven't played that.... I guess i'll have to make sure i do in the future.

BTW, the card i *was* using was a Hercules 3d Prophet 4500 w/ 64MB. It should be on the first or second page of Mad onion benchmarks for 3dmark 2001(Kyro II 3d chipset of course, lol, like i could get 10k with that.... ). It should be under Green_Prophet.

The Ultra version of the Kyro II *should* be out soon. It'll have 200/200 Mhz clocks.

Powervr still kicks ass. (I've yet to see a better arcade system too)

Oh yeah, and if you havent figured out the fact that i'm insane yet... let me tell you: i still have a Matrox M3d, powerVR 1 core lying around form1996!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

UberLord · May 9, 2002, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yeti
As for performance, the Kyro II ran faster at 1024x768 than my friends GF3.

FUD

I happen to be an authority on Kyro's (I help run http://www.pvr-net.com - the premier Kyro fan site) and there is no way a GF3 will be slower than a Kyro on the same box with the same game settings. Unless of course you go out of the way to slow down the GF3 (underclocking it maybe? hmmmm)

As for Max Payne, that's actually a DX7 game and uses NO DX8 features.

Yeti · May 9, 2002, 09:02 PM

I'm sorry my friend, but i''m dead serious.

It may have been a glitch. (you never know, and i was personally surprised). His card was not downclocked. I can have him email you, at great pains.

I'm glad i've met someone who likes Powervr as much as i do. I visit your site occasionally. (i'm afraid there isn't much pvr news lately

)
Well as for the Kyro II and Dungeon Seige. The Kyro II runs dungeon seige smoothly at 1024x768 with maximum texture detail etc. (for some reason the creators of DS didn't seem to think it useful to include resolutions above 1024x768) *shrug*

Anyway... I'm gonna be haunting this post for the rest of the day so feel free to FLAME me. (lol)

--------------------------------------------
I think i got a flame going

Yeti · May 9, 2002, 09:07 PM

And just for details sake...

I'm pretty sure that Max Payne uses some DX8 features.

My freinds box is a Athlon 1.4 on an Asus A7M266.
Mine is a AXP at 1650 Running on a Gigabyte 7vtxe.

The difference is negligible.

UberLord · May 9, 2002, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yeti
(i'm afraid there isn't much pvr news lately )

Yeah - not much we can do about that until ST sell their PC graphics division

Quote:

Well as for the Kyro II and Dungeon Seige. The Kyro II runs dungeon seige smoothly at 1024x768 with maximum texture detail etc.

It runs pretty well provided to set shadows to off - but even then its still slower than a GF3. Perfectly playable - just slower

Yeti · May 9, 2002, 09:18 PM

Amen to that.

I relly don't know, PVR is PVR. I think it'll live, no sales no nothing. Any changes in the management structure of STmicro would screw things up. I fear that PVR may go the way of 3dfx.

As for the shadows: your right, in most cases they do slow things down. (tribes 2 for example), but i didn't notice a big difference in Dungeon seige.

*sigh*

UberLord · May 9, 2002, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yeti
I fear that PVR may go the way of 3dfx.

No chance of that - Power VR/ImgTec are an IP licensing company. Incase you haven't noticed, PowerVR have designed a new lowpower chipset called MBX targeted to run with the ARM processors in PDA devices and mobile phones.

And to top that off, PalmOS 5 will run on ARM chips - erm 2+2 =4

No, PowerVR isn't going the 3Dfx route....

Yeti · May 9, 2002, 09:41 PM

Well, how many people thought 3dfx was going to die eh?

I dont' know... I sure hope you are right.

Necrosis · May 10, 2002, 09:20 AM

I had a Hercules 4500. Sweet little card, 2D is rather sloppy but it sure would eat up the games. Other than some minor issues with the card and missing textures it ran like greased lightning!

UberLord · May 10, 2002, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Necrosis
I had a Hercules 4500. Sweet little card, 2D is rather sloppy but it sure would eat up the games. Other than some minor issues with the card and missing textures it ran like greased lightning!

Yeah - Hercules put crappy RF filters on the card. The VideoLogic one's have 2D quality which rivals my ATI 8500 - it only came with 32meg. Oh well

Yeti · May 10, 2002, 04:43 PM

i don't know what you guys are smoking... I'm sorry but the 2d on my hercules was great. I've never seen any card do as good a job at decoding divx. No color banding no nothing!! I loved it....

reno · May 10, 2002, 04:58 PM

Used to have a hercules 4500 in my 1.7 p4 system too, thought it was a screamer at 3700 3dmarks in 2001...then I wanted to play max payne above 18 fps so I bought a ti500 when they first came out, now I'm getting 8000+ in 3dmark 2001...dunno where you guys get your performance numbers from, it's just impossible to run that card faster than nvidia and ati's current offerings.

Yeti · May 10, 2002, 05:03 PM

Oh no doubt about it. The Kyro II will never outperform a Radeon 85k or anything of the sort.
What i'm saying is it can play all games including Max Payne smoothly. In addition to that it has some of the best 2d ever.

UberLord · May 10, 2002, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by reno
then I wanted to play max payne above 18 fps so I bought a ti500 when they first came out

Should have saved yourself some money and went to <shamless plug> http://www.pvr-net.com </shameless plug> where we would have told you to turn Detail Textures and Shadows to medium and get around 50-70fps.

If you play around with the game settings enough, the Kyro really can scream at times. Ok, never as fast as the 8500 or GF3/4, but for the price its still good

Yeti · May 10, 2002, 05:21 PM

Woah Woah... whats this with Turning down the Texture quality... I've NEVER had to turn textures down from the absolute maximum. Of course i had a 64MB board.... but i don't think it would have made that much of a difference.

UberLord · May 10, 2002, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yeti
Woah Woah... whats this with Turning down the Texture quality... I've NEVER had to turn textures down from the absolute maximum. Of course i had a 64MB board.... but i don't think it would have made that much of a difference.

Its not turning down the texture quality at all.

Detail Textures is basically applying a very faint texture over the main texture. I even turn it off on my 8500 because some games really chug with it on. Only the GeFarces have ever been able to maintain high FPS with this setting on.

And normally, it doesn't really make that much of a difference in terms of IQ

Yeti · May 10, 2002, 05:35 PM

Hmm, i missed your point the first time around. It's been a long time since i've played Max Payne... I can't say that i agree with you though... The new SOF2 demo ran smoothly with Detail Textures on at 1024x768. I'm gonna go dig up Max Payne and check this out.

Judas · May 15, 2002, 10:26 PM

? I have a bottled up AMD ATHLON 600mhz classic... and herc. 4500 and i'm pulling anywere from 40-60+fps in Maxpayne at 1024x768... maxed out...
I've yet to see my buddies radeon 7500 do something like that and he's on a 1.2ghz t-bird...

a well..i'm getting a t-bred soon...

~~HawK~~ · May 16, 2002, 08:04 AM

Bah.. played yesterday an activity in MS-Train, with lots of (long)trains
and this supposedly fast GFarce2 Ti-250/400, could manage 7 - 18 fps(at best)
at 1280x1024x16, a month ago i did the same act. with the KyroII at 1280x1024x32
and it ran 16 - 37fps.
Anyone want's a gfarce..?? it's very cheap..

Ryoko · May 16, 2002, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HawK
Bah.. played yesterday an activity in MS-Train, with lots of (long)trains
and this supposedly fast GFarce2 Ti-250/400, could manage 7 - 18 fps(at best)
at 1280x1024x16, a month ago i did the same act. with the KyroII at 1280x1024x32
and it ran 16 - 37fps.
Anyone want's a gfarce..?? it's very cheap..

for such a crappy gf2, i'm surprised it did that well. get a gf3ti200, overclock it, and watch your frame counter hit 60fps

or, better yet, get a ti4600 and watch it hit 100fps

Judas · May 17, 2002, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryoko
for such a crappy gf2, i'm surprised it did that well. get a gf3ti200, overclock it, and watch your frame counter hit 60fps

or, better yet, get a ti4600 and watch it hit 100fps

aren't we trying to monger around the low $150 rance instead of 600+? (geforce 4 Ti4600 is going for $729.99 in the cheapest store i could find! )

Ryoko · May 17, 2002, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Judas
aren't we trying to monger around the low $150 rance instead of 600+? (geforce 4 Ti4600 is going for $729.99 in the cheapest store i could find! )

aha! of course, in canada the prices are so high. ati is canadian, so the prices are lower still there. don't have to pay tariffs. where i'm at, the diff between a 8500 128mb retail and a ti4600 isn't very much at all. for canadians, though, i will allow to buy ati

~~HawK~~ · May 17, 2002, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryoko
for such a crappy gf2, i'm surprised it did that well. get a gf3ti200, overclock it, and watch your frame counter hit 60fps

or, better yet, get a ti4600 and watch it hit 100fps

Yeah Right.. I also have a life to live *altough it aint much* and money doesn't grow
in the garden......
Crappy you say ? a card just 6 mnd's old??, remember the KyroII, is over a year old !!
So i'll say it again.. SCREW NV !!, they'll do the same to you !!

Ryoko · May 17, 2002, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HawK
Yeah Right.. I also have a life to live *altough it aint much* and money doesn't grow
in the garden......
Crappy you say ? a card just 6 mnd's old??, remember the KyroII, is over a year old !!
So i'll say it again.. SCREW NV !!, they'll do the same to you !!

i can still buy brand new tnt2 vantas. for $4 apiece. would i buy one, compare it to the kyro2 and say that nv cards are crap? no, i would compare each company's top card, because i am an enthusiast gamer, and i want the best of the best.

UberLord · May 17, 2002, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryoko
no, i would compare each company's top card, because i am an enthusiast gamer, and i want the best of the best.

So you buy a new video card every 6 months to go with the nVidia 6 month "refresh"?

May 9, 2002, 08:10 PM	#1
Yeti DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 662 Rep Power: 0	PowerVR now, everyone say it with me ;) This is my first and last post in this section Powervr Kyro's kick Nvidia and ATI arse. Anything Q3 based (e.g. DX7) Runs amazingly well. Q3, Urban Terror, Soldier of Fortune 2, Return to castle wolfenstein, MOHAA. It also provides excellent quality performance under Tribes 2, (90 fps 800x600)! Q3 High Quality (except Trilinear filtering off) 1024x768 165fps!!!!! Why no trilinear filtering? Well i don't know about you , but i like to turn up the mip map lod settings up by +3 so every texture is rendered from its original full size (not a scaled down mip map). E.G. Even the furthest objects are clear and crisp. When i do so i personally can't tell the difference between any of the Filtering modes, even anisotrophic. As for DX8, well you name me one good DX8 game so far? __________________ --Oh lord not again

May 9, 2002, 08:19 PM	#3
Jeff Yarr... I be blind! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 3,191 Rep Power: 80	Max Payne. __________________

May 9, 2002, 08:36 PM	Thread Starter #5
Yeti DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 662 Rep Power: 0	Shit!! Despite my oath, i have to post. Well lets take a pitch Dungeon seige sucks. I got it the day it came out (burnt of course). I played it with some of my firends. I beat it in two days. I went online. It still sucked. I cheated (out of desperation) it still sucks. As for performance, the Kyro II ran faster at 1024x768 than my friends GF3. (And looked better). If you want dungeon seige e-mail me and i wont send it to you (lol , no way i'm sending 1.5 gigs of cd images.!!!). Well, maybe if you have something that i want (i am on a T3 line so it might work out). Btw, for all those wondering you can run Dungeon Seige using Daemon tools to mount a virtual image of the CD. And it works online! lol no Cd keys like Diablo. Lesse, Max Payne, did that about 2 months ago.(BTW, its not full DX8, or so i have been led to believe) Borrowed it from a friend, it ran fine at 1024x768. Fine as in i played it and i enjoyed it. I didn't benchmark it, and i wasn't running Fraps at the time, so i can't give you an fps. (Anyone else hat the levels where your stoned and have to walk thsoe thin lines ... coughcrackcough) Any others? __________________ --Oh lord not again

May 9, 2002, 08:41 PM	Thread Starter #6
Yeti DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 662 Rep Power: 0	Right, Morrowind, haven't played that.... I guess i'll have to make sure i do in the future. BTW, the card i was using was a Hercules 3d Prophet 4500 w/ 64MB. It should be on the first or second page of Mad onion benchmarks for 3dmark 2001(Kyro II 3d chipset of course, lol, like i could get 10k with that.... ). It should be under Green_Prophet. The Ultra version of the Kyro II should be out soon. It'll have 200/200 Mhz clocks. Powervr still kicks ass. (I've yet to see a better arcade system too) Oh yeah, and if you havent figured out the fact that i'm insane yet... let me tell you: i still have a Matrox M3d, powerVR 1 core lying around form1996!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ --Oh lord not again

May 9, 2002, 09:02 PM	Thread Starter #8
Yeti DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 662 Rep Power: 0	I'm sorry my friend, but i''m dead serious. It may have been a glitch. (you never know, and i was personally surprised). His card was not downclocked. I can have him email you, at great pains. I'm glad i've met someone who likes Powervr as much as i do. I visit your site occasionally. (i'm afraid there isn't much pvr news lately ) Well as for the Kyro II and Dungeon Seige. The Kyro II runs dungeon seige smoothly at 1024x768 with maximum texture detail etc. (for some reason the creators of DS didn't seem to think it useful to include resolutions above 1024x768) shrug Anyway... I'm gonna be haunting this post for the rest of the day so feel free to FLAME me. (lol) -------------------------------------------- I think i got a flame going __________________ --Oh lord not again

May 9, 2002, 08:19 PM	#4
lith DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3 Rep Power: 0	Morrowind, I believe. I had a Kyro I 32MB right before my Radeon 8500. I have to say that the only improvement I've witnessed (and I did a LOT of testing and benchmarking between the two) was in villagemark. Unfortunately, even this 8500 whips the kyro in that now. But I cannot say the same for the Kyro II. Who knows what the 3rd rendition of the card will be, but who cares. nVidia's got some lean shit, ATI's coming out with the baby smacker, and Matrox is probably full of shit

May 9, 2002, 09:07 PM	Thread Starter #9
Yeti DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 662 Rep Power: 0	And just for details sake... I'm pretty sure that Max Payne uses some DX8 features. My freinds box is a Athlon 1.4 on an Asus A7M266. Mine is a AXP at 1650 Running on a Gigabyte 7vtxe. The difference is negligible. __________________ --Oh lord not again

May 9, 2002, 09:18 PM	Thread Starter #11
Yeti DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 662 Rep Power: 0	Amen to that. I relly don't know, PVR is PVR. I think it'll live, no sales no nothing. Any changes in the management structure of STmicro would screw things up. I fear that PVR may go the way of 3dfx. As for the shadows: your right, in most cases they do slow things down. (tribes 2 for example), but i didn't notice a big difference in Dungeon seige. sigh __________________ --Oh lord not again

May 9, 2002, 09:41 PM	Thread Starter #13
Yeti DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 662 Rep Power: 0	Well, how many people thought 3dfx was going to die eh? I dont' know... I sure hope you are right. __________________ --Oh lord not again

May 10, 2002, 09:20 AM	#14
Necrosis HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,838 Rep Power: 131 System Specs	I had a Hercules 4500. Sweet little card, 2D is rather sloppy but it sure would eat up the games. Other than some minor issues with the card and missing textures it ran like greased lightning!

May 10, 2002, 04:43 PM	Thread Starter #16
Yeti DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 662 Rep Power: 0	i don't know what you guys are smoking... I'm sorry but the 2d on my hercules was great. I've never seen any card do as good a job at decoding divx. No color banding no nothing!! I loved it.... __________________ --Oh lord not again

May 10, 2002, 04:58 PM	#17
reno Painlord of Ichor Join Date: May 2002 Location: bloinkin! Posts: 1,610 Rep Power: 0	insanity Used to have a hercules 4500 in my 1.7 p4 system too, thought it was a screamer at 3700 3dmarks in 2001...then I wanted to play max payne above 18 fps so I bought a ti500 when they first came out, now I'm getting 8000+ in 3dmark 2001...dunno where you guys get your performance numbers from, it's just impossible to run that card faster than nvidia and ati's current offerings.

May 10, 2002, 05:03 PM	Thread Starter #18
Yeti DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 662 Rep Power: 0	Oh no doubt about it. The Kyro II will never outperform a Radeon 85k or anything of the sort. What i'm saying is it can play all games including Max Payne smoothly. In addition to that it has some of the best 2d ever. __________________ --Oh lord not again

May 10, 2002, 05:21 PM	Thread Starter #20
Yeti DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 662 Rep Power: 0	Woah Woah... whats this with Turning down the Texture quality... I've NEVER had to turn textures down from the absolute maximum. Of course i had a 64MB board.... but i don't think it would have made that much of a difference. __________________ --Oh lord not again

May 10, 2002, 05:35 PM	Thread Starter #22
Yeti DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 662 Rep Power: 0	Hmm, i missed your point the first time around. It's been a long time since i've played Max Payne... I can't say that i agree with you though... The new SOF2 demo ran smoothly with Detail Textures on at 1024x768. I'm gonna go dig up Max Payne and check this out. __________________ --Oh lord not again

May 16, 2002, 08:04 AM	#24
~~HawK~~ Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,092 Rep Power: 0	Screw NV!! Bah.. played yesterday an activity in MS-Train, with lots of (long)trains and this supposedly fast GFarce2 Ti-250/400, could manage 7 - 18 fps(at best) at 1280x1024x16, a month ago i did the same act. with the KyroII at 1280x1024x32 and it ran 16 - 37fps. Anyone want's a gfarce..?? it's very cheap..