Well so far the tbred can't overclock for shit. :)

Doomtrooper · Jun 21, 2002, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by reno

Since when did the Athlon XP +1800 .18micron process use 1.5v?

I could have sworn that the .18 micron XP used 1.75v...gee...maybe those specs were for the new .13 micron XP? In which case, they suck major ass and make your argument plain dumb.

Oh, and that intel sheet is...I think...a million years old. My 1.7gig 478 willy was intel rated for 1.7v only. That was on the box and the little sticker they give you with all the info. More volts=more heat.

Oh, and just an interesting tidbit...it takes 25 volts for electricity to penetrate skin, and only .1 amps to stop a human heart...but you can touch a 1000 amp live wire and live as long as the voltage is less than 25...cool.

By the way, I will never believe the XP is better protected and resistant thermally. If I can take a sledgehammer to a 1.4ghz P4, bend all the pins on one side and bend them back, while a XP will break if some goofus puts the HSF on wrong or fry if the thermal paste is too thick I will never believe that any aspect of the XP is more durable (temperature, impact, pins) than a P4. Here's a test for you, put your XP in the oven and heat to 89C, then do the same to a P4 at 89C and see which one will run after that.

Gee maybe we can compare .18 to .18 and not Northwoods to T-birds

I don't need to test anything dude, my machine put the whoopass on Intel for over two years, is a server..runs 24/7 and didn't need to take out a second mortgage.
Next time you buy your Intel processor you can thank AMD for making your wallet a little fuller and for also keeping DDR technology moving forward.
Like I said before AMD will deliver again with the hammer, and again Intel will play catch up yet still charge a premium price for a inferior processor that loses in all benchmarks just because it says' "pentium" and the 80's

Doomtrooper · Jun 21, 2002, 02:02 AM

BTW you two better head over to the Technology forum and cast your vote, Intel is getting hammered

reno · Jun 21, 2002, 05:30 AM

Northwoods and XPs use copper interconnects and pretty much the rest of their silicon, ceramic, everything else is very similar, so the only reason an XP COULD be more thermally resistant than a northwood is the lesser amount of transistors. More transistors=more chance for them to blow up, but different segments of transistors operate at different temperatures and are more highly concentrated, so the ESTIMATES that both companies come out with are basically the highest number they think they can get away with without having to RMA processors. I'm not positive on AMD's policy with RMAing processors is, but I think there would have been quite a few more athlon RMAs in the past 2 years.

My P4 is a socket 478 WILLY, 256K cache, 1.7v.

The numbers posted for the intel segment of those temperature and wattage ratings were from WILLY processors, compared to XP processors. XPs run at a way higher voltage (.15 more volts the higher the clockspeed) than northwoods, and I'm pretty sure northwoods run way cooler than XPs. (Alienware selling their 2.4A northwoods in a laptop...a laptop! The proof is in the 4 ads in my latest maximum PC.)

Doomtrooper · Jun 21, 2002, 12:34 PM

As already proven many times with tech docs a AthlonXP 2200 generates 1.9 Watts more heat that Northwood @ 2.53 (.13 to .13)....I won't even bother debating about 1.9 watts.

Silentst2000 · Jun 21, 2002, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Doomtrooper
Lol kid you were comparing Northwood temps to a Thunderbird...[SIZE=large]That would make you a Intel Zealot[/SIZE]

BTW is all you Intel Fans think everyone runs Northwood processors ..its like socket 423 doesn't exist and now finally after 2 years of Intel getting owned the fans come out of the wood work and are back to 'Intel Ownz Joooo' and their overpriced processors

READ!! AMD .18 Thermals

http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/cont...docs/23792.pdf

.18 Micron Tbird 1.4 GHZ 64.7 watts

http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=45000307

Since a 1.4 Tbird outperforms a 2ghz P4, I have no Idea where your logic is as you don't base MHZ on performance. A AMD chip performing better than a .18 Intel Chip with a 600 mhz advantage and you want to get into trivial wattages with clock speed ..

Next time you rant make sure you don't make yourself look like a fool

? First of all I was compairing Intel's latest with amd's lastest. Not like you were compairing amd latest with intel's last generation.

And a 1.4 ghz tbird does not out perform a 2 ghz p4. Considering I own both.

Silentst2000 · Jun 21, 2002, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Doomtrooper
As already proven many times with tech docs a AthlonXP 2200 generates 1.9 Watts more heat that Northwood @ 2.53 (.13 to .13)....I won't even bother debating about 1.9 watts.

Yeah with 600 more mhz on the athlon.(yes the performance is about the same intel being faster of course)

It just proves my point[SIZE=xx-large]THAT INTEL PROCESSORS RUN COOLER CLOCK FOR CLOCK![/SIZE] [SIZE=xx-small]And have way less of a chance of burning up.[/SIZE]

Silentst2000 · Jun 21, 2002, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Doomtrooper
Lol kid you were comparing Northwood temps to a Thunderbird...[SIZE=large]That would make you a Intel Zealot[/SIZE]

You sure about that?...

Silentst2000 · Jun 23, 2002, 08:28 PM

More fuel for the flame.
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthre...eadid=33623498

Necrosis · Jun 23, 2002, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Silentst2000
More fuel for the flame.
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthre...eadid=33623498

More like toothpick for the flame...

Silentst2000 · Jun 24, 2002, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Necrosis
More like toothpick for the flame...

Well they can burn.....

Doomtrooper · Jun 24, 2002, 02:17 AM

This HAS nothing to do with BURNING, its called rookie mistakes....originally put extensive amounts of thermal paste on the CPU, so much that they have shorted out the processor. With the bridges exposed on the top of the processor controlling the multiplier and voltage easily conductive thermal paste would have destroyed that processor.

A very poor example on your part

alewisa · Jun 24, 2002, 04:16 PM

Wow, who cares. You bought a CPU rated for whatever speed, and now you are complaining that you can't get what you didn't buy, e.g. its doesn't o/c.

Imagine buying a car, any car. For sake of argument, a BMW 328. You supachip it, and increase bhp from 198bhp to 220bhp. A "mere" 10%. Now go to BMW and complain. Do you expect to be listened to? No. You want a faster car, buy a faster car.

<ducks and runs rapidly>

Silentst2000 · Jun 24, 2002, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Doomtrooper
This HAS nothing to do with BURNING,

Uh, Duh?

Quote:

Originally posted by Doomtrooper
originally put extensive amounts of thermal paste on the CPU, so much that they have shorted out the processor.

Never seen that done with a P4.

Quote:

Originally posted by Doomtrooper

A very poor example on your part

Actualy it just shows how fragile xp's can be and the slightest slipup could mean a $200 paper weight.

Doomtrooper · Jun 24, 2002, 11:27 PM

No it shows you need to know what you are doing, no different than building a motor or building a house, if you don't know what you are doing...it will break.

A thunderbird or Xp will not burn up with a heatsink mounted, we tried many times at my computer store, even if the fan was not running. I think your attempt to make Intel look better only makes you look like a zealot.

Silentst2000 · Jun 25, 2002, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Doomtrooper
even if the fan was not running.

[SIZE=xx-large]BULLSHIT[/SIZE]

Ok maybe if it is like a duron 600 or something.

I've seen pics of a retail hsf with the fan MELTED onto the HSF because the fan failed and the cpu was a 1400mhz tbird.

It might not burn up in 2 sec's but give it like 30 min or so and yeah its toast.

Anyways.

Have you seen this?
http://www.hardforums.com/showthread...hreadid=432789

If its true its going to piss me off as I really want to see one.(as I might get one.)

Doomtrooper · Jun 25, 2002, 02:10 AM

No Silents it was not Bullshit, we fried a 1.4 Tbird in 2 seconds without a heatsink on, with one on we installed Windows 98 no problem without the fan. Of course this was a Alpha Pal6035 so alot of heat dissipation, I have no reason to lie dude..I am a former owner of a computer company and the one thing I will never forget AMD for is power for your money.

reno · Jun 25, 2002, 05:49 PM

The temps were reading 60C for the processor before they tried to install windows...AMD rates their processors at 90C...the processor died (no VGA output has been the symptom for many a burnt out celerons at our school, crappy dell heatsinks were held on by a piece of plastic connected to the backside of the die...dumb dumb dumb idea dell)...AMD specs not law? Yes...

Spread the word! An AMD processor died at 30C lower than what AMD claims is the max temp! Yay!

JavaFox · Jun 26, 2002, 01:24 AM

That's a fluke, reno, and you know it. My CPU runs close to 60C -- no problem. I've seen AXPs running in the 80s. AMD can't just pull a figure out of their ass -- they have to pay when chips burn up. And 90C is a pretty accurate figure, as far as my experience is concerned.

raptora12 · Jun 27, 2002, 08:29 AM

to repeadately bash them over the head with a clawhammer till there brains are exposed.

oh have a nice year.

Silentst2000 · Jun 28, 2002, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by raptora12
to repeadately bash them over the head with a clawhammer till there brains are exposed.
oh have a nice year.

Yeah but amd keeps up this bullshit with hammer, prescott will be out and we will be back at again just like the XP p4 argument.

rushstrike · Jun 30, 2002, 11:32 PM

well I'll take any Intel or AMD chip!! Any donation?

Seriously I think that at the moment, the Northwood with PC1066 ram are kicking ass.

UberLord · Jul 1, 2002, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rushstrike
the Northwood with PC1066 ram are kicking ass.

Shouldn't the "Wood" be "poking" the ass instead of kicking it?

Dammit, I knew that Intel CPU's were ghay

JavaFox · Jul 1, 2002, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UberLord
Shouldn't the "Wood" be "poking" the ass instead of kicking it?
Dammit, I knew that Intel CPU's were ghay

Um... I can think of better things to do with wood other than poking an ass, dude..

reno · Jul 2, 2002, 04:24 AM

like buttering up the butt cheeks THEN sliding the man meat between 'em?

JavaFox · Jul 2, 2002, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by reno
like buttering up the butt cheeks THEN sliding the man meat between 'em?

Is that what your daddy did to you, or are you fucked up for some other reason? Or is it syphilis-induced dementia? We kept tellin' ya, reno, your "alternate lifestyle" was bound to catch up with you..

reno · Jul 2, 2002, 05:03 AM

more like dementia-induced syphilis. being an entirely self contained sphere the only way I can come into contact with foreign materials is via self induction. I now have...Diabetes! yay!

JavaFox · Jul 2, 2002, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by reno
more like dementia-induced syphilis. being an entirely self contained sphere being the only way I can come into contact with foreign materials is via self induction. I now have...Diabetes! yay!

Heh, don't really know how to respond to that...

SnoopyII · Jul 2, 2002, 06:27 AM

Let me see...

1 CPU costs WAY less than the other.

1 CPU can spot the other 450mhz and still stay even with it in most benchies.

1 Company has kept the same socket design for quite awhile ...and very sucessfully I might add.

The other company's CPU has changed names, sockets, and pin counts more times than Pamela Anderson has been poked...and that is just for one family line (say PEE4)

The 1.6a does ramp up to some pretty high speeds but again only in the "fake, synthetic non-applicable in real life" benchmark of memory bandwidth does it win by much.

Really by seat of the pants "feel" the NOwood and the WeLAMEit lose handily to the Athlon.

Opteron (read about it inhell lovers) this would be the generation that is coming right after "Hammertime"

The frickin' Inhell nOOb mantra of "Well my CPU runs cooler" sucks hind tit. A VIA C3 runs cool too...but you don't see everyone running out buy them do you? (hint: they run cool because they aren't doing anything...)

The memory instruction pipeline of the PEE4 is so damn long you can hear it echo as it waits for instructions to arrive.

It is my sincere hope that Inhell at least gives you a courtesy reacharound while they are AZZ raping you financially and performance-wise.

reno · Jul 2, 2002, 07:04 AM

o thou! sayer of nay!
pass down hope no less
that under strife, sweet duress,
opteron dying in darkness lies
amd and it's ceo cries

"hark! .13 micrometer process!
thou art so hard to achieve!
now with intels fabrication progress,
we are but the chiuahua yipping at the bear's knees!"

while high aloft, in a building of white
sit intels high ups.
laughing their asses off in spite,
of the current speed ratings
in which amd so confides.
because R&D keeps on,
creating solid .09 micrometer prescott dies.

"so much money, it behooves me;
amd a beggar, 'please lend of thee!'
our prices raise, along with our profits
amd falters, our apollo 11 to their bottle rockets!"

the joke a success
the chairmen amused
intel called it a night
amd, decided, enough abused.

thank you, thank you.

SnoopyII · Jul 2, 2002, 08:58 AM

Someone's been smoking the good stuff again...Kind of like Edgar Allan Poe took a massive dump after being constipated for a really long time...someone flush the toilet. It's frickin' stinks in here.

Jun 21, 2002, 02:02 AM	#62
Doomtrooper Driverheaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Great White North Posts: 206 Rep Power: 0	BTW you two better head over to the Technology forum and cast your vote, Intel is getting hammered __________________ "It's time to kick A$$ and chew bubble gum....and I'm all out of gum." Duke Nukem November 1996

Jun 21, 2002, 05:30 AM	#63
reno Painlord of Ichor Join Date: May 2002 Location: bloinkin! Posts: 1,610 Rep Power: 0	argh argh argh! Northwoods and XPs use copper interconnects and pretty much the rest of their silicon, ceramic, everything else is very similar, so the only reason an XP COULD be more thermally resistant than a northwood is the lesser amount of transistors. More transistors=more chance for them to blow up, but different segments of transistors operate at different temperatures and are more highly concentrated, so the ESTIMATES that both companies come out with are basically the highest number they think they can get away with without having to RMA processors. I'm not positive on AMD's policy with RMAing processors is, but I think there would have been quite a few more athlon RMAs in the past 2 years. My P4 is a socket 478 WILLY, 256K cache, 1.7v. The numbers posted for the intel segment of those temperature and wattage ratings were from WILLY processors, compared to XP processors. XPs run at a way higher voltage (.15 more volts the higher the clockspeed) than northwoods, and I'm pretty sure northwoods run way cooler than XPs. (Alienware selling their 2.4A northwoods in a laptop...a laptop! The proof is in the 4 ads in my latest maximum PC.)

Jun 21, 2002, 12:34 PM	#64
Doomtrooper Driverheaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Great White North Posts: 206 Rep Power: 0	As already proven many times with tech docs a AthlonXP 2200 generates 1.9 Watts more heat that Northwood @ 2.53 (.13 to .13)....I won't even bother debating about 1.9 watts. __________________ "It's time to kick A$$ and chew bubble gum....and I'm all out of gum." Duke Nukem November 1996

Jun 23, 2002, 08:28 PM	Thread Starter #68
Silentst2000 Can I be cool? Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 355 Rep Power: 0	More fuel for the flame. http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthre...eadid=33623498 __________________ P4@2.4ghz Radeon 9700pro DDR 400 Nuff said

Jun 24, 2002, 02:17 AM	#71
Doomtrooper Driverheaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Great White North Posts: 206 Rep Power: 0	This HAS nothing to do with BURNING, its called rookie mistakes....originally put extensive amounts of thermal paste on the CPU, so much that they have shorted out the processor. With the bridges exposed on the top of the processor controlling the multiplier and voltage easily conductive thermal paste would have destroyed that processor. A very poor example on your part __________________ "It's time to kick A$$ and chew bubble gum....and I'm all out of gum." Duke Nukem November 1996

Jun 24, 2002, 04:16 PM	#72
alewisa DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kendal, UK Posts: 260 Rep Power: 0	Oh dear I can't steal Wow, who cares. You bought a CPU rated for whatever speed, and now you are complaining that you can't get what you didn't buy, e.g. its doesn't o/c. Imagine buying a car, any car. For sake of argument, a BMW 328. You supachip it, and increase bhp from 198bhp to 220bhp. A "mere" 10%. Now go to BMW and complain. Do you expect to be listened to? No. You want a faster car, buy a faster car. <ducks and runs rapidly> __________________ TRS-80, dual 5.25", 32K C-64 o/c to 2Mhz, 1541 with PhantomDOS Amiga 4000/040@66Mhz, C64-3D, 64mb, 4.3gb SCSI Netware 4.11 And too many damn PC's to care!

Jun 24, 2002, 11:27 PM	#74
Doomtrooper Driverheaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Great White North Posts: 206 Rep Power: 0	No it shows you need to know what you are doing, no different than building a motor or building a house, if you don't know what you are doing...it will break. A thunderbird or Xp will not burn up with a heatsink mounted, we tried many times at my computer store, even if the fan was not running. I think your attempt to make Intel look better only makes you look like a zealot. __________________ "It's time to kick A$$ and chew bubble gum....and I'm all out of gum." Duke Nukem November 1996

Jun 25, 2002, 02:10 AM	#76
Doomtrooper Driverheaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Great White North Posts: 206 Rep Power: 0	No Silents it was not Bullshit, we fried a 1.4 Tbird in 2 seconds without a heatsink on, with one on we installed Windows 98 no problem without the fan. Of course this was a Alpha Pal6035 so alot of heat dissipation, I have no reason to lie dude..I am a former owner of a computer company and the one thing I will never forget AMD for is power for your money. __________________ "It's time to kick A$$ and chew bubble gum....and I'm all out of gum." Duke Nukem November 1996

Jun 25, 2002, 05:49 PM	#77
reno Painlord of Ichor Join Date: May 2002 Location: bloinkin! Posts: 1,610 Rep Power: 0	by the way... The temps were reading 60C for the processor before they tried to install windows...AMD rates their processors at 90C...the processor died (no VGA output has been the symptom for many a burnt out celerons at our school, crappy dell heatsinks were held on by a piece of plastic connected to the backside of the die...dumb dumb dumb idea dell)...AMD specs not law? Yes... Spread the word! An AMD processor died at 30C lower than what AMD claims is the max temp! Yay!

Jun 26, 2002, 01:24 AM	#78
JavaFox E Pluribus Unum Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,203 Rep Power: 0	That's a fluke, reno, and you know it. My CPU runs close to 60C -- no problem. I've seen AXPs running in the 80s. AMD can't just pull a figure out of their ass -- they have to pay when chips burn up. And 90C is a pretty accurate figure, as far as my experience is concerned.

Jun 27, 2002, 08:29 AM	#79
raptora12 Mystic seeker Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 193 Rep Power: 0	my thinking is the t-bred is to keep intel busy just long enough to repeadately bash them over the head with a clawhammer till there brains are exposed. oh have a nice year. __________________ msi 6330 Athlon T-bird 1000 mhz 768mb sdr hd 80 gig eide ata 100 7200rpm western digital hd 30 gig eide ata 100 5600rpm western digital Sound Blaster Audigy retail 8500 275/275 19" Mitsubishi Diamondtron

Jun 30, 2002, 11:32 PM	#81
rushstrike DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 34 Rep Power: 0	well I'll take any Intel or AMD chip!! Any donation? Seriously I think that at the moment, the Northwood with PC1066 ram are kicking ass. __________________ MSI KT3 Ultra-2 xp 1400mhz@1790mhz radeon 8500 OEM 256mb corsair xms3000

Jul 2, 2002, 04:24 AM	#84
reno Painlord of Ichor Join Date: May 2002 Location: bloinkin! Posts: 1,610 Rep Power: 0	fa like buttering up the butt cheeks THEN sliding the man meat between 'em?

Jul 2, 2002, 05:03 AM	#86
reno Painlord of Ichor Join Date: May 2002 Location: bloinkin! Posts: 1,610 Rep Power: 0	bfsa! more like dementia-induced syphilis. being an entirely self contained sphere the only way I can come into contact with foreign materials is via self induction. I now have...Diabetes! yay!

Jul 2, 2002, 06:27 AM	#88
SnoopyII DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 33 Rep Power: 0	Let me see... 1 CPU costs WAY less than the other. 1 CPU can spot the other 450mhz and still stay even with it in most benchies. 1 Company has kept the same socket design for quite awhile ...and very sucessfully I might add. The other company's CPU has changed names, sockets, and pin counts more times than Pamela Anderson has been poked...and that is just for one family line (say PEE4) The 1.6a does ramp up to some pretty high speeds but again only in the "fake, synthetic non-applicable in real life" benchmark of memory bandwidth does it win by much. Really by seat of the pants "feel" the NOwood and the WeLAMEit lose handily to the Athlon. Opteron (read about it inhell lovers) this would be the generation that is coming right after "Hammertime" The frickin' Inhell nOOb mantra of "Well my CPU runs cooler" sucks hind tit. A VIA C3 runs cool too...but you don't see everyone running out buy them do you? (hint: they run cool because they aren't doing anything...) The memory instruction pipeline of the PEE4 is so damn long you can hear it echo as it waits for instructions to arrive. It is my sincere hope that Inhell at least gives you a courtesy reacharound while they are AZZ raping you financially and performance-wise.

Jul 2, 2002, 07:04 AM	#89
reno Painlord of Ichor Join Date: May 2002 Location: bloinkin! Posts: 1,610 Rep Power: 0	a poem o thou! sayer of nay! pass down hope no less that under strife, sweet duress, opteron dying in darkness lies amd and it's ceo cries "hark! .13 micrometer process! thou art so hard to achieve! now with intels fabrication progress, we are but the chiuahua yipping at the bear's knees!" while high aloft, in a building of white sit intels high ups. laughing their asses off in spite, of the current speed ratings in which amd so confides. because R&D keeps on, creating solid .09 micrometer prescott dies. "so much money, it behooves me; amd a beggar, 'please lend of thee!' our prices raise, along with our profits amd falters, our apollo 11 to their bottle rockets!" the joke a success the chairmen amused intel called it a night amd, decided, enough abused. thank you, thank you.

Jul 2, 2002, 08:58 AM	#90
SnoopyII DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 33 Rep Power: 0	Someone's been smoking the good stuff again...Kind of like Edgar Allan Poe took a massive dump after being constipated for a really long time...someone flush the toilet. It's frickin' stinks in here.