Judas

It's a joke.... partially... but still a joke..

The entire premise is pushed by dollars... not by any form of facts.... mostly just confusion, cohersion and fear.

There is no denieing that Climate DOES and ALWAYS will change, denying it would deny hundreds of millions of years.

But the whole "global warming/Climate change" isn't about anything like that.. it's about modern time Human interactions with the climate.. and there wish to prevent it.. yet we have basically ZERO bearing on it. Excluding the fact of some of these climate scientists and fanatics are actually working towards FORCING against the natural progression of climate changes.

The claim that Co2 has ANY effect on "warming" cycles as a catalyst for warming due to out direct creation of Co2 is a total lie. Right in the middle of the massive scientific community has clear indication that it's a lie, how it's been politically taken over and an agenda pushed is utterly insane.

It's fraud... plain and simple.

Now being that it's a total joke isn't a reason to go back and not bothering to further invest and invent new technologies that provides for cleaner energy and such, that would be idiotic.. we need this stuff.... we need new technology. But to be forced into it via a lie is still a bloody lie. It's still fear mongering for no good reason at all other then to suck the money out of those without the ability to prevent it.

The whole Co2 cap n trade solution is a royally joke... i'd be laughing if i wasn't feeling so sick to my stomache with what they are trying and in some cases succeeded in doing...

Nothing better to get total shit through by boxing it up as being green and in the interest of the whole world, for the good of man..... inside it's still all total bullshit and lies.

Climategate is probably the best thing that happened for us, yet it goes mostly unnoticed, ignored, pushed off as being of no conciequence..

Pretty damn sad i'd say...

Either way i'm in favor of truth and the good for all, not in the interests of using fear, lies and "solutions" in which do not benefit any of us.. and makes the big wigs richer through fraud and schemeing they've been doing, through political means of controlling more.

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blibbax

It's weird how much more press "climategate" got in the US than the UK.

Anyway, I'd have to say I agree that global warming is a natural phenomenom. We're speeding it up, and this probably is partly related to CO2.

CO2, however, pales in the extent of its effect by comparison to other gases. Owning a dog accelerates global warming more over the course of a year than running two Toyota Land Cruisers, including manufaacture and disposal.

Talking of Toyota, here's another thing that annoys me...

The fucking Prius. It's about the least environmentally friendly care you could hope to buy. Grr.

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Neshi

how so? You are, i'm guessing here, pointing towards the gasses in the excrement?
in that case, what about us humans.


I already denounced global warming with humans as the primary driver as a load of stinking BS, and after watching "the great global warming swindle" I have some proof that I was right..

__________________
If one does not attach himself to people and desire, never shall his heart be broken. But then, does he ever truly live?

Life is just too damn short for if's and maybe's

blibbax

It's due to a combination of excrement and feeding them, and yes, the human population itself is not very eco-friendly, but we wouldn't suggest a cull of that...

I wouldn't have said that global warming with hmans as primary driver is BS... few if any people are intentionally deceiving you... it's just that things like this tend to get blown out of proportion.

If anything, rather than spending millions slowing down global warming by .1%, we should be spending those millions on preparing for the inevitable. That's the real disaster here.

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Liqourice

Imagine that the frozen methane deep under the northern ice cap starts to melt and ignite... then this world will go to hell, literally.

Anyways. It doesn't matter what point of view you have, we humans ARE destroying this world. The last 200 years we've used and abused it in all kinds of ways without even thinking about if there could be consequences or not. Is global warming due to this or not? It can be debated forever.... but while we debate it all continues and it'll be to late to do anything.

So, it doesn't really matter if we caused the global warming or not, we need to do something about it. Now.

Jac

I think it's pretty clear that humanity is having an effect on climate however the politicians have got hold of the issue and use it as an excuse for any measure that may be unpopular. More taxes for 'climate change' etc etc

The best way to decrease the effect we are having on the planet is to reduce the amount of people there are. Wars are becoming less destructive, healthcare is improving, more people surviving and less dying means pretty soon the Earth will be overrun.

There needs to some move towards reducing population but that's an unpopular message for many - they don't want to be told how many children they can have. Humans are by nature selfish.

blibbax

Even if the human race put its entire co-operative weight into fixing this problem, I don't think we could do it. That's why I think we need to start preparing for the future, rather than attempting to prevent it.

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Liqourice

Well, neither is going to happen anyway. With heavy industrial nations like USA, Japan and Russia refusing to do anything because it'll hurt their economy then no other nation will follow since they don't.

The greatest economical powers have a huge responsibility, they have to move first, they have to show action. If they don't then the developing countries have all arguments they won't for not doing anything themselves.

This is no matter what route is taken.

And, since USA IS the biggest and most influental economy, as well as the biggest polluter, currently in our world, they DO have the biggest responsibility in showing the way.

Tyrsonswood

Then we a doomed.......

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blibbax

Excellent. Now, time for a light snack...

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Neshi

I am not saying the world isn't slowly dieing, because it is.
I am just saying that manmade global warming is bullshit. The world has been warming up and cooling down since the first year of its existence. There was a time when there was even MORE Co2 in the air than now (they checked air in airbubbles deep in the arctic ice), there was a time that Mammoths could walk over the bottom of the atlantic ocean..
Human inlfuence on the total Co2 exhaustion in the world is just like 5%, and then they wanna spend million and millions on cutting our Co2 back by 0.5%. yea.. that'll stop the warming of the earth.

Global warming is happening, it's a natural process, but humans aren't really a factor in this process. We will be fucked by it, but we can't stop it.
The only thing we can do is prepare for it... as well as looking for alternatives for when the oil runs out.

__________________
If one does not attach himself to people and desire, never shall his heart be broken. But then, does he ever truly live?

Life is just too damn short for if's and maybe's

Senor_Mota

So, we have to stop farting and smoking cigarettes because an uneducated sexual deviant told us to?

Whoa, that's weird.

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Liqourice

Well, there's no hard evidence that the greenhouse gases we release are responsible. On the other hand, there are no hard evidence to prove they're not either...

So, as long as everyone keeps babbling about who's right and who's not the problem just gets worse...

But hey, we're only humans.. that's what we do best.

MIG-31

Part One:


Part Two:

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Liqourice

Thanks, that contained some new facts that I haven't heard before.

Even if I was more or less convinced before I'm even more so now.

But, as long as the "free market" and profit rules nothing is going to be done about it. Strange really because there are immense profits to be made in the conversion business.

steves6403

i live in australia vic and was looking into solar power as the govenment subsidise's to have it installed.Yep no problem i could get a great system for 5 grand.The thing is everytime a system is installed means less power is on the grid which is good for the comsumer right? Wrong its good for the power company as they will put up the prices.

how could they do this ....ITS CALLED BIG BUSSINESS

The coal mining industry dont want to lose there supply amount as thier profits would suffer so they'll put there prices up to compansate (less for more what a bargin)

The energy industry is the same, less power to supply so they'll put there prices up as well to meet there profit margine.

Its almost like there holding us to ransom (if u keep installing solar power we'll put the price)

I really dont think they beleave in climate change either

temeteus82

You could always build huge solar plant in the out back and start selling cheaper energy so that the mines would go belly up

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Judas

FACT of the matter is... all the DATA even the "climate change groups" data states that Co2 is not a cause, it's a naturally occuring result..

Co2 doesn't causing warming at all, it meerly is the result due to what warmth does to things.

As proven several times in many videos using SOURCE data, co2 rises AFTER warming, and only starts to fall a number of years after significant cooling happens.

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Judas

FYI..

the amount of ash and debris, gases and other heating elements from 1 typical volcanic erruption such as the one in iceland earlier this year put out more energy and heat and all that crap that dwarfs what we have produced in the last 50 years or more.

Lets not forget that hawaii's volcanic activity is year round occurance and produces teratons worth of co2 and which makes what we produce PER YEAR a drop in the bucket compared.

Earth cannot be killed, yes it may appear that we are killing parts of it, but when it gets down and dirty and to the crunch, the earth will roll over and kill all of us on a whim if need be and then it'll regrow like it does millions of times before.

WE do need to clean up our bullshit in many aspects.... but unfortunately due to big wig businesses, we cannot.

Patents leading to near free energies, non polluting solutions, abundance in foods and such have been barred from use, prevented by businesses, bought up to prevent it, made ilegal to prevent it.

There are litterally hundreds of thousands of inventions and solution that excist but we cannot access because it would hurt big business and make the public self sufficient.

The whole system is corrupt and totally against human interests. They do not want us self sufficient, growing our own food, producing our own power, dealing with our own stuff.

They don't want us to do it, so they make it appear that it is to expensive, to hard, to time consuming, to impossible, and not efficient enough to be justified, and it's all a giagantic lie.

Mosanto is now forcing around the world the use of it's own gentically modified seed, and sueing the shit out of anyone that happens to "magically" end up with a single bit of their seed in hand. And trust me, we do not WANT mosanto seed in our feilds... yet somehow they are growing here, guess those planes dropping the material... hmmm wonder what that was after all.

We have been made to beleive we are at fault.

We are made to pay for it,

Cap n trade is a total load of crap that won't do anything but feed the top hands tons of money to do nothing at all. It's just another tax that no one.. not even our own government will see.

Instead of meerly accepting ALL the arguements, why don't most people actually investigate them all, the realization for all the total propaganda and bullshit floating around is nothing more then a joke. And in the end, one may think that the whole point of purposely creating sides to battle each other out just to make some people try and pick a side, even if there is more then 1 side, is to create chaos, disorder, and an inability to agree, which results in what? Nothing being done, and the puppeteers that created it, to continue doing what they do best, raping us all for their own agend and benefit.

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Liqourice

Come on Judas.

After seeing those clips I've searched around quite a bit to find more information and today almost the entire scientific community agrees to the fact that CO2 is a major contributor and the rise IS caused by us. There are still a few outspoken sceptics but some of them are clearly tied to the big oil, coal and heavy industries, others won't say who they're working for.

Even government officials are starting to admit what they've been denying the last 30 years.

You say that vulcanos and such spew out more.. and that might be true, but they do so all the time, it's a natural process and it's been contributing to keeping a more or less steady level of CO2. What we have done the last century is adding on top of all that, and huge amounts of it. It doesn't matter how you twist and turn this, global warming is for real and we are the cause of it, or at least we're adding to it.

Who gains the most from spreading propaganda about it? Not the scientific community that says it's happening, it's the industry spreading propaganda that it isn't that has the most to lose if the world accepts the truth. So in that respect you're correct, it's big business.

Judas

it's called mass bullshit..

when you are told the same thing for 15-30 years.. that CO2 is a cause... not the effect...

And when you have massive amount of so called scientists relying on money to feed themselves and others and with the most recent claims stating that global warming is the cause or GTFO, of course your going to have some scientists jumping on the bandwagon EVEN if thier work has nothing to do with it...

If the money demands global warming, then people will fill it if they can.

If the lie that Co2 is a cause, then everyone has to step in line too with that.

You can't make something as idiotic as this agenda work without many of the pocket scientists parrot the same thing.

Lets not forget also that majority of the people on the "global climate change" board or panel or whatver it is... aren't even climatologists... they aren't even scientists.... they are nothing more then a name signed on a peice of paper claiming to say it excists how they say it does.

WORST yet is the fact that MANY scientists have had their names PUBLISHED on these very books and papers WITHOUT authorization or without their know how.

3000 or was it 30,000 climatologists had signed a statement countering the co2 myth..... look it up.... the group of people is huge.... al-gore keep trumpeting his bullshit.

And the reason they want co2 is because they figure they can cap n trade it like it has value.... it's nothing more then a money grab scheme... total fraud..... the rabbit hole goes far far deeper.

Any scientist with any form of rational without using political beating around the bush will tell you straight up, a climatologist even..... that the number one cause and actually ONLY worthwhile finger pointing can be pointed at the Sun....

what does the sun do to water?
what is water vapor?

It's not that difficult to undestand it.

I've watched litterally hundreds of videos and i've had probably by now hundreds of hours spent reading documents for and against... comparing and contrasting... looking up information on the writers/speakers/there orgins.. who they are paid by... what they have done before and during and after...

In the end.... it's nothing but a total joke....

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Judas

oh for a good start..

looking up

"co2 follows temperature"

you can do this on youtube and find several videos showing this..

Also an FYI..

All the planets of the solar system have shown a significant increase in temperature in which even NASA can't ignore.... i think even with my out of the box thoughts on the matter..... i doubt there are a bunch of humans with industrial industries and suvs and such on each of these planets..

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Liqourice

It doesn't matter which way you turn it, it will become business anyway. There will always be profiteurs.

With the line of argument that the opposers have we might as well just lay down and wait for the hellfire.

The sun theory has been poked and prodded plenty of times and it doesn't hold. There's no evidence whatsoever that the sun is causing it.

Considering how much oil, coal and other fossil fuels we've been burning for the last century it would be extremely foolish to blame the rising CO2 on increased temperature. Don't forget the massive clearing of jungles, the immense pollution of our oceans killing algae that are the largest CO2-consumers/oxygen-producers in the world, adding to the effect.

The problem is man made no matter how you look at it.

Judas

So if we both agree that business will push any agenda that makes them a profit REGUARDLESS of whatever trick they use, right or wrong, without any form of ethic and moral standing, then we know that the current situation and agenda will follow that movement. While this shouldn't have any scientific weight at all, unfortunately it does have weight against the current agenda that is incorrect.

No, that's going to the other extreme of being complete idiots and being as bad as those fighting with the supporters and not at all looking at all the facts, infactual data, lies, and truths.... Basically what we have is a 5%/5%/90% rule..

5% know what they are talking about for or against, 5% haven't a frigen clue what they are talking about for or against due to any number of reasons, and 90% are all idiots that either do or don't give a shit about it, or will take whomever they hear first, OR more commonly just blindly be the sheep they tend to be and follow the "official" word reguardless of how incorrect it is.

Seriously? Your talking about a massive ball of fire that spits out so much heat and power that provided with numerous factors at play, could wipe the earth clean of all organisms and life in any form, turn our crust into a magma pool, haveing no evidence of being a factor at all?

With that frame of mind turn it up or down shouldn't play a roll either.

I think a little biology and chemistry not to mention a little more thermaldynamics would be a good place to start with the simpliest way the sun works with earth.

We all know...at least we should know that while earth DOES produce it's own heat, it's a very weak force/power. Compared to that of the suns overall heat generation on us. Anyone has experienced fridged winters of any kind... where temperatures drop to sub 40 and even the lowest of temperatures in antarctica will know in a hurry that earths own temperature doesn't mean much without going down quite a long ways.

Either way the amount of co2 and litterally hundreds of other naturally created types of gases it produces is considerably by a huge multitude more then humans every will produce on earth....

The sun has the largest concentrated effect on earth, you have to dive into magnetics and poler shift and well as how earth prevents solar radiation too.
The amount of energy created with a single atom bomb being set off still pales in comparison what a single days worth of active lightning storms produce around the world in a single hour.
It's like a puzzle, you can't look at even just a few of the sciences that seem to make up the puzzle, you have to look at them all as some of them fill in more of the main picture then people tend to realize let alone want to admit.

have you looked at the CO2 lvls during the largest industrial period? also pay attention to the temperature. I think you really need to look up the real data on the last 150 years.. it's VERY interesting. Even common sense will for the most part, break the thought the co2 has any real roll in temperature beyond much of anything.

And as for clear cutting forests.... and jungle.... yes while true that the basic concept is that plant life is required to restore oxygen, but further studies show that provided, the world even with our help or not, will balance it one way or another.

There is much more too it then these relatively silly things, part of the puzzle but definitely not the big picture.

It cannot be man made...... even with the thought of using "death by 1000 cuts", we are talking about the earth, for us to even cut it we would need to launch an all our nuclear war, and even then it won't die..

Lets backtrack to the past a little. It is known that what is desert land today was once high vegitation, and what is high vegitation today was once desert.

We also know that where the ice is today wasn't before.

The entire planet has shifted, the magnetic poles have shifted several times.

There is great evidence of solar storms that have litterly burnt living creatures and plantlife where they stood, and we also know of occasion when animals had been flash frozen mid way through chewing, not even allowing them to start digesting.

We also know that the current magnetic natural protection system for earth is acting strangely and seems to be going into a cycle that is currently high controversial but has plenty of evidence to back it up. In which case our shield as an example are quite weak, our shelter from the sun has holes in it. This isn't co2 or actually having anything to do with temperature or gases..... the magnetism basically has no relation to these thing, yet these things are occuring.

Scientist are paying very close attention to the sun because we are coming into a solar maximum. To boot, it's on a specific maximum that is expected to be quite interesting. Not only has the sun in the previous years shown very mild and even to a few scientists "scary silence", so little sun spot activity that made it appear to be acting outside the norm.

I also do not agree that we haven't had absalute 0% effect on the overall enviroment, we have... in what ways is totally debateable, but in the terms of temperature, a variable of 0.05% with a margin of error 0.03% give or take is pretty poor excuse to be making a fuss over in the way "THEY" are.

I'm interested in solving some problems, but the presented solutions are non-excistant. The technology is being supressed and made unavailable for a reason. They are INSISTING that we pay a tax to whomever with utterly no oversight let alone any suggestion on how or what to do with it.

The whole agenda is highly suspect and questionable.

And frankly when it does come down to the crunch, money will have no factor. We'll have either learnt what we needed truthfully and with better accuracy, or we'll fail miserably by believing in a lie and expecting everyone to just follow suit.

Theres a damn good reason thousands of scientists, scientists that work specifically in these fields are whistle blowing the head cheifs that are feeding the public with the "official" word...

When proper evidence has clearly shown that the "official" word needs to be thrown out.

Under a court of law with ethics of great value involved, the jury would be required to ignore ALL data presented by these frauds, and to have all data renewed and correctly plotted by another group, preferrably by actual source members with source data, not fudged ones.

But in the world of the interest and the public media with biased views and opinions, where dollars gets your point across reguardless of it's accuracy, we'll likely never see it until a massive wakeup call occurs in which we can more easily gather all the data. And provided someone honest even were to take the time, could do this. I've personally been checking this out.

I will not deny that initially i was, in part, somewhat on the side of the global warming/climate change.... but the more source data i pull up, the more i find Al-Gores inconvient truth a total lie.

Polar bears drowning.... lol my ass.

But seriously, start looking into that magnetic pole shift and check into some of the related sun stuff, also pay attention to where the "holes" are and the present facts on the matter and some of the numerous theories involved. It's quite interesting.

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Liqourice

This is not how the universe works.

Even if the sun were starting to get close to it's end, and the idea here is that it will start to expand when it does so. Even then the change will not be this quick. It will take millenia. It will not cause a temperature increase of 2 degrees in under a century.

There are no proofs that something like this has happened before either, if there were natural variations in the suns activity there would be. Even during the ice age the medium temperature on the planet was close to the same as today, the ice age was caused by other factors. Fact is, ice ages are more or less the natural state for the planet, the "warm" periods in between like we have now are rare and short (not that they are warmer really, it's just changes in the oceanic currents and weather patterns that does this). That is another evidence that the sudden rise in temperature is not natural. Though, the ice age didn't disappear in a century, natural temperature variations just aren't that quick.

You say we can't kill the planet. Well, of course we can. We have all the means we need to do so. I'm not saying that we will, we'll have to be a lot more brutal than we are now to do so but we can. However, we can make the world a hellish place to live in and that's what we're slowly doing.

Just look at it. It would be an incredible coincidence that this rapid increase in temperature should suddenly occur at the same time as we spew out tonnes of gases, dust and all kinds of crap. To much of a coincidence. We ARE responsible.

LOL, blaming the rising CO2 on farting dogs... that's about the funniest thing I've ever read...

blibbax

Funny or not, it is the case that owning a dog is worse for the environment than owning a 4x4, by the time both have been manufactured, fed, and emitted what they will.

Regardless of this, however, your argument still stands, and you are, I think (though of course we can never be certain either way) right about the fact that humans are unnaturally accelerating global warming during this cycle, whether we're doing it with our pets or cars doesn't really change anything.

We don't know whether this will cause an unusually quick cycle or break the current system altogether, but either way this is undesirable.

My main point here, which I think is entirely compatible with both yours and Judas's, is that we cannot realistically prevent the damage we're causing or even significantly reduce its extent. We should, therefore, be doing far more to prepare for the worse, in whatever form that takes.

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Jac

Yes, lowering the heating by a degree and driving a 'greener' car are not going to have any measurable effect. Those self-righteous types who drive Prius cars and only buy organic veg look down their nose at others driving 4x4s but don't realise that by having 3 children any nods to the eco lifestyle are completely pointless.

Hopefully I'll be gone before it gets too bad

Judas

really?

no evidence of a sudden rise or fall in temperatures? within a single century?

I think you should see the results of what the icelandic volcano did... The average temperatures of the effected areas EVEN in saskatchewan dropped in a single year by a measureable degree.

While the sun has the largest impact over long term, natural disasters in conentration will always produce the fastest results. Volcanic activities, earthquakes, massive hurricanes and so forth, even solar flares that are able to fry the hell out of it's impact zones.

Our little blip of excistance as we know it hasn't and does not completely corrispond with the rise and fall throughout the centuries. Reread the source data and if you feel you have the time, plot it out in excel and form a graph if you like, theres a crapload of formulas.. but just make sure you get it from the source.

And don't try to use al-gores fudges numbers, those were documented and confirmed to be false, and then even later deleted by the head guys at the climate change union.

Another fact worth mentioning.

Chickens out number humans by a large factor, they are thought to be the largest population of animal on the planet excluding bugs and insect like creatures. Want to take a gander at what they produce for gases?

Another thing worth noting, Nearly every farm seeds/plants and grows today almost 90% or better of their entire land base. This is up from approximately 50% in the 70's and up from 40% and under in the early 50's or earlier.

Typically this is seasonal growing so in areas where year round is a growing season, usually those areas plant all field now with no cultivation, in places where there is a snowing/winter seasons, the entire available spring/summer/fall period is a growing season.

There is probably as much plant life if not more being grown then previously as well. Some of the methods of being able to grow these crops i don't exactly agree with because they are causing more harm then good, but you can thank mosanto for that. But there is more plant life being grown.

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Judas

Another fact..

IF green house gases and all that other crap was a real concern.. why are they worrying about the public when several thousand of us combined produce a drop of the human expendatures compared to the huge businesses.

You know of these Airplanes, Boats, cars trucks etc.

What about the Cruise ships... that for every 4 and a half inches of water through normal seas, burn several gallons of diesel. Their carbon footprint is giagantic... and those companies through the cap n trade system will not have to pay a single dime via trading schemes.... but a single small family will have to go pretty much without anything due to not being able to afford the presented cap n trade.

That's just one example.

Inflated prices on solar panel systems that are not as efficient as they could be, more and more concentration and attempts to get more and more people to be reliant on products and services by the government or by big corporations, less self sufficient people.

Shit people don't even know how to grow their own gardens..

Some don't even know where their food really comes from.

Some people even think farms are nothing but useless and a waste of time and resources. There are litterly people that BITCH about farmers getting $12 to 20 dollars from the government (which is a total joke what the fuck is 12 to 20 dollars going to do for an opperating cost with no return for 8 months or more of $250,000-500,000 for a small farmer?) because it shows up in the news paper at a $140 million payment.

Last i checked we needed food to survive, and unfortunately people don't bother doing this anymore.

We've gotten lazy.... stupid, and are to busy basically having fun and doing the robotic job routines and schedules... we are working ourselves to death because we want materialistic things that we do not need, and getting spoiled, rotten, rude and scream when we don't get our way.

Personally while i hate to say it, i really don't want to see people die, that's the last thing we need, and we really do not need it, population growth ISN'T our problem... but a world wide catasrophe to set us all straight and bring back honest and trusting communities and getting people in these communities to work together for the benefit.

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Neshi

this discussion will go on and on, and both sides will be convinced they got it right.
In the end it doesn't matter. With my post earlier I have conveyed how I think about it...
but we will not ever be sure about what causes it I'm afraid.

I will happen, no matter what we do.

__________________
If one does not attach himself to people and desire, never shall his heart be broken. But then, does he ever truly live?

Life is just too damn short for if's and maybe's