kinetic

You've hit the nail on the head there Java, whatever anyones individual opinion, the fact remains that abortion is a far too common procedure and only these two things will bring the figures down.

GREEKRAGE

Sorry bud but isnt that like asking that funny question: what came first the chicken or the egg??

I know its harsh but we will never be able to ask the fetus(unless you mean the fetus fully grown as an adult).

But heres a question for you all:

Does this apply to The third world countries???
Where all they do is ask for money and help to feed the millions of starved children??
And at the same time cant keep their Dick in their pants ??
Who decides then ??
Or should i refrase that:do we allow them to give birth ??

I would really like to see the day when overpopulation is so bad that it actually effects US TOO.
Will you have the same opinions then ??

We have to start to filter somewhere and i think abortion would help alot.
I heard someone say that these unwanted kids could have a home in families that cant have children....ok...but i really dont think that there is that many couples to
cover the number of births.

Like i said it isnt that simple to say who decides but someone has to since people will never be responsible enough to avoid these situations.

How about this?
Think about the advantages of not having ..lets say teen or unwed mothers.
1)alot of mony saved that the goverment shovels out to these women and kids.

2)crime rates drop cause we dont have to deal with these kids that were raised basicly out of a true family inviroment and in most cases end up to be real assholes or criminals.

3) the women that do have the abortion can move on and finish their school, follow their careers and one day make a real family that they are ABLE to support.

im sure there are hundreds more but im really sleepy and wanna get to bed.

JavaFox

My point exactly. People like to argue that it's better to commit an abortion than to damn the child to a shitty life. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: nobody but the (grown) fetus can make that decision. If he doesn't like his life, he can end it at his own leisure. But the mother cannot make that decision for him. Nor can the father. Nor can the government.


Abortion is the easy solution, but it is not the right one. And it is especially a bad idea for Third World countries where medical care is sub-par. Even in America, certain abortion procedures can severely damage the woman's reproductive system. The solution is education and a sense of responsibility. That is the only right solution.

Yes.

And, right off the bat, education and birth control could eliminate HALF of all abortions. That's a good way to filter, don't you think? I can't believe you're advocating murder as a means for population control.

All in all, I don't see why abortion is a better solution than education and birth control. It takes more work to teach someone, but it's better than murder.

ByteMe

Jesus, EVERYTHING is an emotional issue for a female.

Smoothdrive

IMHO that situation is created due to the fact that abortion is not legal and therefore will b edoen in stinky filthy backrooms by med-school drop-outs instead of in hospitals by skilled staff.

I got a funny look on things but i do not agree it's up to the fetus..you see it is NOT only the life of the baby we're talking about..having a baby is also turning the life of the parents upside down..so in a bad case you do not only give a miserable life to the baby but you ruin the life of the parents as well..a fetus can not talk, hell we don't even know if it will be born or will be a mis-carriage..so i say the parents have veto on it..after all they represent 2/3 of the lives that are at stake here.

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GREEKRAGE

If it was murder i wouldnt even think about it my friend.

I really dont think that a 3 month fetus really knows whats going on.

Ok think about it like this:
If we remove that fetus from the mother can it survive alone ??
Can it breathe ?
Well i dont think so...
Its like someone on life-support that once we turn off the switch ..hes gone.

But letting this fetus live and be born has the effect of murder on ones life.
What happens to those teens that go through this proccess??
In most cases these teens are doomed to a life of dropping out of school
and working at anything they can find (even prostitution) to feed this child.

Saying the education will solve alot is easy cause we dont have to deal with it.
But getting ppl educated is a totaly different story.
How can you educate someone that doesnt want to be or just doesnt care.

If people wanted to be educated believe me buddy ..safe sex would not be the only issue that would be solved.
Oh and about the 3rd world that i mention where you think that education will solve their problems.....wont work...cause they arent even civil enough to want to learn.
I mean those ppl have a hard enough time trying to learn how to plant a damn
cabbage to eat.

The only way i see to solve this problem is to either outlaw sex up to a certain age(i think it is anyway) or to temperarily alter a teens reproductive system up to a certain age.
I know it sounds drastic but dont you think that a problem like this isnt ONLY an individuals but effects the whole community around them ??

To close:
I would like to state that no mater what we think or say we will never come to a
solution that will be agreed on 100% by both sides.
Way too many parameters to consider.

Damnit guys when you pick a topic you really pick the hard ones !!

Lets talk about global warming/polution etc next one.

JavaFox

It is murder. A person without brainwaves can be considered clinically dead. Therefore, a person with brain activity is alive. The brainwaves of an eight week old fetus can be measured. Killing a living human being is murder.

reno

Abortion isn't illegal in the united states smoothdrive, it is in some states, but only very few.

Anyway, I think the best bet is to not get in situations where a woman could get pregnant.

Ex. Abstinence (yuck)
Ex. 2 Sex with condom, birth control (pill, depo-provera, etc.), and spermicidal foam.
Ex. 3 Sex with condom, birth control, foam, diaphragm, vasectomy, etc. etc.

Example 1 is foolproof...but sucky if you wanna have sex
Example 2 is 99.9999999999 percent effective, but there is that one in a million chance...
Example 3....if she gets pregnant then, you have just conceived the Messiah.

Smoothdrive

I stand corrected..must have been watching too many old series & movies (how European )

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JavaFox

Ortho Tri-Cyclen, a pill, is 99% effective. OrthoEvra, a patch, is 99% effective. Condoms are 90-85% effective. Foam with a condom is more than 99% effective. A diaphram is 97-95% effective. An IUD is 99-96% effective. Some pills are so effective, only one woman in 333 gets pregnant in a year.

It's a gamble, but those are damn fine odds, I think. If you can't put up with the 85-99% risk, keep it in your pants.