Taste and Tact

JavaFox · Aug 18, 2002, 09:52 PM

I drove through a town the other day. I don't know what was going on in that town, but they had a pretty impressive turn out for some anti-abortion anti-Planned Parenthood demonstration. And I was sickened. On every corner, there was sign with a real honest-to-God picture of a mutilated aborted fetus.

Now, if you knew me, you'd know I'm not even almost pro-abortion. But that kind of advertising/protest is absolutely ridiculous. Firstly, they are, in my opinion, attacking the wrong target. Planned Parenthood is not only about abortion. They teach about and distribute contraceptives. They help. PP would be a helpful organization even in a society intolerant of abortion. Secondly, displaying gratuitously graphic pictures of that sort is in very poor taste. Nobody is going to want to be part of a movement that makes its point through shock-advertisement. Actually I find it hard to believe there'd be anyone who'd react postively towards this kind of thing. Honestly, do they expect people to throw up their arms and say "Well, shoot, I didn't know that aborted fetuses looked like that! I guess I've changed my mind."

Some people need to realize that tactlessness, poor taste, and shocking pictures aren't going to win over anyone. If anything, it makes the opposition less interested and sane supporters embarassed.

DallasStar · Aug 18, 2002, 10:00 PM

imo, shocking pictures get the message across better than other methods.

reno · Aug 19, 2002, 06:01 AM

Yeah, those weirdoes came to my town two years ago. It made me finally realize that anti-anything protestors are just a bunch of menopausal wenches and sterile bastids.

Usually the people that protest are desperate for attention, now fairs and free museums (such as clean-energy fairs and the like) are neat because it's totally my choice wether I want to see an actual hydrogen fuel-cell...I'm not forced into being made sick on my way to work by dead fetuses and lesbians.

Agreement, Javafox.

Whoever that guy was that posted images like that are sometimes needed needs to stop watching TV and enter into the real world of moral human beings.

Should anti-smoking campaigners use autopsy photos of lung cancer victims in a main city street where a 4 year old could see it? Come on.

MikeDaMan · Aug 19, 2002, 06:55 AM

Hmmm I think I know what your talking about. And if you were talking about driving through someplace in WI I've seen those people before! They used to do their little protesting on the road opposite from where I work..(good way to attract customers). I think those people are very messed up to be doing something that graphic. I understand that there anti-abortion but I'm sure anyone sain is anti-murder, anti-homicide, etc. and we dont walk around displaying pictures of that so I feel these people need to stop.

Smoothdrive · Aug 19, 2002, 09:23 AM

The sad truth of this world..a one man protest using rude methods will get more attention in the news than a 1000 man civilised protest..if you want to get your case in the news these days you have to throw bricks, start a fire or use very offensive posters. If the media would just keep these protests off the screen and just cover the civilised ones things could change..

~~ByteMe~~ · Aug 19, 2002, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Smoothdrive
The sad truth of this world..a one man protest using rude methods will get more attention in the news than a 1000 man civilised protest..if you want to get your case in the news these days you have to throw bricks, start a fire or use very offensive posters. If the media would just keep these protests off the screen and just cover the civilised ones things could change..

Hence why I am ignoring you

[SIZE=xx-large]Noob-nose[/SIZE]

Can you read this?

Smoothdrive · Aug 19, 2002, 12:30 PM

No i can't, my nose is in the way

reno · Aug 21, 2002, 07:15 AM

Smoothdrive just settles himself into that comfortable zone of dissentive compliance, just like the rest of this sedated fucking world.

We know it's the truth, dumbass, but at least we have the balls to speak out against it and pass judgment. The rest of the world, like you, lets it slide and blames the world instead of voicing a genuine opinion for or against. Please don't have children, and if you do, make sure that you teach them to have an opinion.

Smoothdrive · Aug 21, 2002, 08:28 AM

Stop Wining and face reality dumbo..no way you bunch of cry babies are gonna change the way the world works. You have the "balls" to speak out on this forum wow..you're the man..excuse me while i bow for you

If you want to change things go into politics don't bother me with rediculous self-apraisels "Wow look at me i speak up against something on a hardware forum o wow i'm a tough guy now"

I was simply explaining why they use these methods..if you knew that wel good for you..why didn't you explain to the guys who seem suprised about the methods ??
One might think you learned something and didn't like it

sorry for the wake-up call dude

And wtf are we talking about here ?? a bunch of loonies who are against abortion..what kind of idiot is against abortion these days ??..tought the pope was the only one left..no one is gonna take those fool serious anyway so don't bother wit them.

Ryoko · Aug 21, 2002, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Smoothdrive
what kind of idiot is against abortion these days ??..tought the pope was the only one left..no one is gonna take those fool serious anyway so don't bother wit them.

this kind of idiot

oh, and no one takes me seriously either... wonder why

digitalwanderer · Aug 21, 2002, 06:01 PM

...I support the woman's right to choose. How in the hell can you make decisions for someone else regarding their body?

I don't think ANYONE is in favor of abortions, but some people do see them as the lesser of two evils at times. Saying someone "favors abortion" is just one of them cute semantic tricks played by the ultra-crazies on the pro-life side, don't play their game.

Worthless Munkee · Aug 21, 2002, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by reno
Should anti-smoking campaigners use autopsy photos of lung cancer victims in a main city street where a 4 year old could see it? Come on.

Actually if you came to Canada, and you looked at the cigarette packs here, u see a cancerous lung, a dead heart, a guy on life support, and the nastiest of all teeth of a serious smoker. Its really nasty and in plain view of young kids, it supposed to turn people of from smoking but what it does is just make people through out the covers on the cigarette pack. Which proves that having nasty pictures on things does not get ur point across.

Smoothdrive · Aug 23, 2002, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
...I support the woman's right to choose. How in the hell can you make decisions for someone else regarding their body?

I don't think ANYONE is in favor of abortions, but some people do see them as the lesser of two evils at times. Saying someone "favors abortion" is just one of them cute semantic tricks played by the ultra-crazies on the pro-life side, don't play their game.

Good point, i'll rephrase...

I'm against forbidding abortion..i'm not in fagour of it i just think that if someone wants an abortion they should be able to have it.

Don't give me that murder shit..it's better not to give a life than to give a miserable life..

Aug 23, 2002, 09:01 AM

Well Smooth i think you hit the nail dead center.

I totally agree with you.

Abortion should be an individuals personal choice.

And coming from a broken family i think that bringing a life to this
world is not an easy thing ...especially if one cant support it and give it
at least a good life if not a great one.

Most people in those marches have no idea what growing up poor
or miserable means.
Or have one parent.

And another thing:
I dont see how religion can have a say in it.....since when does religion
have a say in ones home and personal life.
I dont see any churches supporting unwed mothers???
Hmmm...but how can that be since in most religions a unwed mother is a siner.

So what the fuck do they want getting involved then ?

If politicians dont want abortion then they better pay up...and not those miserable
amounts of money they call support..i mean enough to even put a child like that through college etc.

Damn hypocrits !!!

Aug 23, 2002, 09:12 AM

On the cigarette issue:

In most cases in alot of countries they raise the price of smokes to
make people stop smoking.....yeah right.
How many of you see where that extra cash goes??

Shouldnt it go to a ..lets say anticancer group or medical care for those that do have lung cancer ??
or even cancer reasurch or at least wellfare.
Well im sure it doesnt .

Here in greece a packet of cigarettes costs about 1/8 of a basic days pay and thats
one pack not 2 that many people smoke which comes to 25% of ones pay check.
I actually smoke more worrying about my money not being enough to pay for my basic needs.

Screw it ...just typing this pissed me off....i think ill have a smoke to relax now.

Aug 23, 2002, 09:13 AM

oops double post...sorry

Smoothdrive · Aug 23, 2002, 11:09 AM

With you all the way on the smoking bit..if the government wants people not to smoke just forbid the production and sales of cigarretes..
Sure it will go underground and will still be available at much higher prices, but 80% of the smokers will just quit if they can not buy a smoke legal.
All that high taxes stuff is just to gain more income for the country..
Cheapest smoke here is 2.70 Euro a packet
Wich is a lot but still better than NY city..saw on the news that they pay about 7 dollar a pack there now..need to get the money to rebuild the WTF somewhere right

well the one thing that NY-city does right now is making sure i wont go there on a holiday.

JavaFox · Aug 24, 2002, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Smoothdrive
And wtf are we talking about here ?? a bunch of loonies who are against abortion..what kind of idiot is against abortion these days ??..tought the pope was the only one left..no one is gonna take those fool serious anyway so don't bother wit them.

Nobody can deny that something is killed when an abortion is committed. That is a fact. What people have to decide is whether a fetus is something that is worthy of life --like a developing human being-- or something that can be killed because it is inconvenient -- like a weed. And I, for one, have to say that I think a fetus is worthy of life. Abortions are wrong. Rationalization by saying things like "no life is better than a shitty life" are ridiculous because the only person that can make that choice is the grown fetus.

Not to mention that the Supreme Court decision to allow abortion (Roe v. Wade) is quite possibly the most questionable interpretation of the Constitution of the 20th century.

Secondly, your comment on cigarettes, Smoothdrive, is probably the most ignorant comment I have heard in a very long time. The US Government, if you'll remember, tried doing exactly what you said with alcohol many years ago. And it failed. Miserably. It failed so badly that we had to cross it out of our Constitution. So simply outlawing cigarettes is so obviously not the solution that it is painful.

reno · Aug 24, 2002, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Life, containing these functions: metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.

A first trimester "fetus" posseses growth, and metabolism. It does not posses reproduction, response to stimuli ...

By that definition, a one year old child is not alive either, as he cannot reproduce. I think your definition is an oversimplification.

JavaFox · Aug 25, 2002, 08:28 AM

Shit! I apologize profusely! I keep hitting "edit" instead of quote. Sorry, reno.

~~ByteMe~~ · Aug 25, 2002, 10:16 AM

Everyone seems to miss what I believe is the most basic fact of all of this. It all comes down to responsibility. Most of this "burden" is the females (and if you disagree I don't care because YOUR A FOKKING MORON). I am 0% religious (and yes you can kiss my a$$ here too). Abortion is just a "fix" for irresponsible people (mostly females). If I was a female I would NOT have an abortion, I'd use one of the other options. But I will not force my opinion (which is fact) upon the stupid no-class sluts that do so choose to have one.

You see, women have the greatest ability of the sexes... unfortunately for some they cannot handle the responsibility that comes with this ability. Too bad they are so stupid.

Kelsenellenelvian · Aug 25, 2002, 11:09 AM

For once ByteMe I actually agree with you abortion should be for extreme cases like rape, teen mothers or when the mother or fetus are already in life endangering circumstances. Instead of for the lazy f**kers out there that can't take the time to say no, swallow a pill or even slip on a condom. Abortion is a serious choice not a quick fix for the stupid!!! If you can get pregnant you should carry to full term and at least give the baby to someone who cannot have children and are praying that they can raise one of their own. Quit calling it pro-choice and call it what it really is a quick fix for all the stupid people who can't control themselves and get in a position that they don't want, or have the maturity to deal with.

reno · Aug 25, 2002, 07:20 PM

No problem Java

It's a hard luck life sometimes, hehe.

Byteme: It's really going to be tough for you to get a girlfriend thinking like that, it's not 100 percent the responsibility of the woman. The man has to be a man and use a condom, the woman doesn't have to put it on for him.

And by the way, contraception isn't 100% effective anyway, I know a friend who was conceived while his mother was on depo-provera (3 month birth control), using spermicidal foam, and his dad was using a condom. Condom broke, spermicide didn't catch all of the sperm, progestin didn't make the uterus hostile enough. Accidents happen, and if it's caught within the first few weeks (before the "fetus" is more than just a few hundred cells) I think accidents should be allowed to be corrected.

Christ, your attitude just screams retard. Maybe if you actually had sex with women you'd take more of the responsibility on yourself. A woman always produces an egg, and she always carries it for a few days, but it takes one of a man's sperm to do the dirty deed of impregnating her, and I think it's the man's fault for impregnating anyway.

Most unwanted pregnancies happen between the ages of 14-18, where birth control is only obtainable with parental permission. How many fathers would like to have their 15 year old come up to them with their 20 year old boyfriend and ask for birth control pills? "Uh, it's for cramps daddy...yeah..." Come on. It's the man's responsibility to protect his woman from his loaded gun, not the woman's.

I wouldn't be surprised if you were an accident yourself, I diagnose your mental handicap as "maternally induced, repeated bludgeoning to the head; possible abortion attempt by way of falling down stairs multiple times" syndrome.

~~ByteMe~~ · Aug 27, 2002, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by reno
No problem Java It's a hard luck life sometimes, hehe.

Byteme: It's really going to be tough for you to get a girlfriend thinking like that, it's not 100 percent the responsibility of the woman. The man has to be a man and use a condom, the woman doesn't have to put it on for him.

People like you make it so easy for people like me. I have no problem getting/having multiple girlfriends at the same time... and I am not talking trailor trash like your used to either. I had a successful company, so I have some money and plenty of women.

Quote:

And by the way, contraception isn't 100% effective anyway, I know a friend who was conceived while his mother was on depo-provera (3 month birth control), using spermicidal foam, and his dad was using a condom. Condom broke, spermicide didn't catch all of the sperm, progestin didn't make the uterus hostile enough. Accidents happen, and if it's caught within the first few weeks (before the "fetus" is more than just a few hundred cells) I think accidents should be allowed to be corrected.

I take it you just got out of your sex-ed class? I never said it was 100% effective. You want to play the game you accept the risks.

Quote:

Christ, your attitude just screams retard. Maybe if you actually had sex with women you'd take more of the responsibility on yourself. A woman always produces an egg, and she always carries it for a few days, but it takes one of a man's sperm to do the dirty deed of impregnating her, and I think it's the man's fault for impregnating anyway.

Most unwanted pregnancies happen between the ages of 14-18, where birth control is only obtainable with parental permission. How many fathers would like to have their 15 year old come up to them with their 20 year old boyfriend and ask for birth control pills? "Uh, it's for cramps daddy...yeah..." Come on. It's the man's responsibility to protect his woman from his loaded gun, not the woman's.

14-18 eh? Seems like a bit more here. Maybe the parents' (or lack thereof) are partially responsible?

Quote:

I wouldn't be surprised if you were an accident yourself, I diagnose your mental handicap as "maternally induced, repeated bludgeoning to the head; possible abortion attempt by way of falling down stairs multiple times" syndrome.

You must of been one of the asshole babies.

reno · Aug 27, 2002, 04:17 AM

Quote:

I have no problem getting/having multiple girlfriends at the same time... and I am not talking trailor trash like your used to either. I had a successful company, so I have some money and plenty of women.

Hahahaha! The typical claim from a 15 year old geocities "webmaster." Hehehehe! That's goood...good stuff.

Smoothdrive · Aug 27, 2002, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by reno
Hahahaha! The typical claim from a 15 year old geocities "webmaster." Hehehehe! That's goood...good stuff.

LOL

JavaFox · Aug 29, 2002, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by reno
And by the way, contraception isn't 100% effective anyway, I know a friend who was conceived while his mother was on depo-provera (3 month birth control), using spermicidal foam, and his dad was using a condom. Condom broke, spermicide didn't catch all of the sperm, progestin didn't make the uterus hostile enough. Accidents happen, and if it's caught within the first few weeks (before the "fetus" is more than just a few hundred cells) I think accidents should be allowed to be corrected.

No contraception is 100% effective. This is factual. But they do their job well. Orthotricyclen boasts that, over the course of the year, only one couple in 99 will get pregnant. What you say almost sounds good to me, Reno, but only if you ignore that fact that abortion doesn't exist because other forms of birth control are inadequate. Abortion exists because people are uneducated and irresponsible. Here is the state of Arizona, just over 50% of abortions are committed by women between the ages of 15-24. One in five abortions is committed by a teen (15-19). Age doesn't tell the whole story, but let's be serious: teens are irresponsible.

Of the women committing abortions nationwide, 53% have either not used contraception during the month they became pregnant, or have never used contraception at all.

What we need is responsibility and education.

Smoothdrive · Aug 29, 2002, 09:35 AM

Dunno about US..they seem a little less human in most cases..but here an abortion is not an easy thing for a woman..it's emotionally difficult on them..so saying it's just a correction of a mistake as if you're getting a nose-job is far to simple. Even an abortion after a rape is not a decision easily made for a woman.
That's partially why i feel they should be able to get an abortion..it's difficult enough to have one without people saying it's murder etc. etc.

kinetic · Aug 29, 2002, 09:57 AM

Abortion is a very emotive issue but although fundamentally I am against it, it does have a use in society. Severe birth defects are probably the strongest arguement but I'm sure, from a womans point of view, there are many others. Most women take such a decision very seriously and it can fill them with guilt. Effectively, they grieve for the rest of their lives and no-one would wish that on anybody. On the other hand there are those women who are very flippant about the whole thing and treat abortion as contraception and it is this that is morally wrong in my opinion.

JavaFox · Aug 29, 2002, 09:55 PM

Kinetic, respect your opinion I do, but, as I said earlier, the only person that can decide whether or not their life is worth living is the grown fetus. That isn't the mother's decision.

Aug 18, 2002, 09:52 PM	#1
JavaFox E Pluribus Unum Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,203 Rep Power: 0	Taste and Tact I drove through a town the other day. I don't know what was going on in that town, but they had a pretty impressive turn out for some anti-abortion anti-Planned Parenthood demonstration. And I was sickened. On every corner, there was sign with a real honest-to-God picture of a mutilated aborted fetus. Now, if you knew me, you'd know I'm not even almost pro-abortion. But that kind of advertising/protest is absolutely ridiculous. Firstly, they are, in my opinion, attacking the wrong target. Planned Parenthood is not only about abortion. They teach about and distribute contraceptives. They help. PP would be a helpful organization even in a society intolerant of abortion. Secondly, displaying gratuitously graphic pictures of that sort is in very poor taste. Nobody is going to want to be part of a movement that makes its point through shock-advertisement. Actually I find it hard to believe there'd be anyone who'd react postively towards this kind of thing. Honestly, do they expect people to throw up their arms and say "Well, shoot, I didn't know that aborted fetuses looked like that! I guess I've changed my mind." Some people need to realize that tactlessness, poor taste, and shocking pictures aren't going to win over anyone. If anything, it makes the opposition less interested and sane supporters embarassed.

Aug 18, 2002, 10:00 PM	#2
DallasStar Junior Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wave Existence Posts: 2,065 Rep Power: 0	imo, shocking pictures get the message across better than other methods. __________________ "A picture of my existence... would show a useless wooden stake covered in snow... stuck loosely at a slant in the ground in a ploughed field on the edge of a vast open plain on a dark winter night." --- Franz Kafka

Aug 19, 2002, 06:01 AM	#3
reno Painlord of Ichor Join Date: May 2002 Location: bloinkin! Posts: 1,610 Rep Power: 0	asdfg Yeah, those weirdoes came to my town two years ago. It made me finally realize that anti-anything protestors are just a bunch of menopausal wenches and sterile bastids. Usually the people that protest are desperate for attention, now fairs and free museums (such as clean-energy fairs and the like) are neat because it's totally my choice wether I want to see an actual hydrogen fuel-cell...I'm not forced into being made sick on my way to work by dead fetuses and lesbians. Agreement, Javafox. Whoever that guy was that posted images like that are sometimes needed needs to stop watching TV and enter into the real world of moral human beings. Should anti-smoking campaigners use autopsy photos of lung cancer victims in a main city street where a 4 year old could see it? Come on.

Aug 19, 2002, 06:55 AM	#4
MikeDaMan DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 874 Rep Power: 0	Hmmm I think I know what your talking about. And if you were talking about driving through someplace in WI I've seen those people before! They used to do their little protesting on the road opposite from where I work..(good way to attract customers). I think those people are very messed up to be doing something that graphic. I understand that there anti-abortion but I'm sure anyone sain is anti-murder, anti-homicide, etc. and we dont walk around displaying pictures of that so I feel these people need to stop. __________________ DFI Lanpart UT 250GB motherboard. 1GB 2X512 Crucial Ballistix PC 3200. AMD Athlon 64 3400+. Retail ATI Radeon X850XT PE AGP

Aug 19, 2002, 09:23 AM	#5
Smoothdrive Foolish Genius Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 455 Rep Power: 0	The sad truth of this world..a one man protest using rude methods will get more attention in the news than a 1000 man civilised protest..if you want to get your case in the news these days you have to throw bricks, start a fire or use very offensive posters. If the media would just keep these protests off the screen and just cover the civilised ones things could change.. __________________ GA-7VRXP, AMD2000+, 256MB PC-2700 DDR, Radeon 8500LE, 2x Maxtor 740 (40GB) stripe set, AGNeovo X-150.

Aug 19, 2002, 12:30 PM	#7
Smoothdrive Foolish Genius Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 455 Rep Power: 0	No i can't, my nose is in the way __________________ GA-7VRXP, AMD2000+, 256MB PC-2700 DDR, Radeon 8500LE, 2x Maxtor 740 (40GB) stripe set, AGNeovo X-150.

Aug 21, 2002, 07:15 AM	#8
reno Painlord of Ichor Join Date: May 2002 Location: bloinkin! Posts: 1,610 Rep Power: 0	fdg Smoothdrive just settles himself into that comfortable zone of dissentive compliance, just like the rest of this sedated fucking world. We know it's the truth, dumbass, but at least we have the balls to speak out against it and pass judgment. The rest of the world, like you, lets it slide and blames the world instead of voicing a genuine opinion for or against. Please don't have children, and if you do, make sure that you teach them to have an opinion.

Aug 21, 2002, 08:28 AM	#9
Smoothdrive Foolish Genius Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 455 Rep Power: 0	Stop Wining and face reality dumbo..no way you bunch of cry babies are gonna change the way the world works. You have the "balls" to speak out on this forum wow..you're the man..excuse me while i bow for you If you want to change things go into politics don't bother me with rediculous self-apraisels "Wow look at me i speak up against something on a hardware forum o wow i'm a tough guy now" I was simply explaining why they use these methods..if you knew that wel good for you..why didn't you explain to the guys who seem suprised about the methods ?? One might think you learned something and didn't like it sorry for the wake-up call dude And wtf are we talking about here ?? a bunch of loonies who are against abortion..what kind of idiot is against abortion these days ??..tought the pope was the only one left..no one is gonna take those fool serious anyway so don't bother wit them. __________________ GA-7VRXP, AMD2000+, 256MB PC-2700 DDR, Radeon 8500LE, 2x Maxtor 740 (40GB) stripe set, AGNeovo X-150.

Aug 21, 2002, 06:01 PM	#11
digitalwanderer Colour Commentator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Highland, IN USA Posts: 5,619 Rep Power: 0	I'm against abortions, but... ...I support the woman's right to choose. How in the hell can you make decisions for someone else regarding their body? I don't think ANYONE is in favor of abortions, but some people do see them as the lesser of two evils at times. Saying someone "favors abortion" is just one of them cute semantic tricks played by the ultra-crazies on the pro-life side, don't play their game. __________________ WTF is up with the sigs?

Aug 23, 2002, 09:01 AM	#14
GREEKRAGE Guest Posts: n/a	Well Smooth i think you hit the nail dead center. I totally agree with you. Abortion should be an individuals personal choice. And coming from a broken family i think that bringing a life to this world is not an easy thing ...especially if one cant support it and give it at least a good life if not a great one. Most people in those marches have no idea what growing up poor or miserable means. Or have one parent. And another thing: I dont see how religion can have a say in it.....since when does religion have a say in ones home and personal life. I dont see any churches supporting unwed mothers??? Hmmm...but how can that be since in most religions a unwed mother is a siner. So what the fuck do they want getting involved then ? If politicians dont want abortion then they better pay up...and not those miserable amounts of money they call support..i mean enough to even put a child like that through college etc. Damn hypocrits !!!

Aug 23, 2002, 09:12 AM	#15
GREEKRAGE Guest Posts: n/a	On the cigarette issue: In most cases in alot of countries they raise the price of smokes to make people stop smoking.....yeah right. How many of you see where that extra cash goes?? Shouldnt it go to a ..lets say anticancer group or medical care for those that do have lung cancer ?? or even cancer reasurch or at least wellfare. Well im sure it doesnt . Here in greece a packet of cigarettes costs about 1/8 of a basic days pay and thats one pack not 2 that many people smoke which comes to 25% of ones pay check. I actually smoke more worrying about my money not being enough to pay for my basic needs. Screw it ...just typing this pissed me off....i think ill have a smoke to relax now.

Aug 23, 2002, 09:13 AM	#16
GREEKRAGE Guest Posts: n/a	oops double post...sorry

Aug 23, 2002, 11:09 AM	#17
Smoothdrive Foolish Genius Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 455 Rep Power: 0	With you all the way on the smoking bit..if the government wants people not to smoke just forbid the production and sales of cigarretes.. Sure it will go underground and will still be available at much higher prices, but 80% of the smokers will just quit if they can not buy a smoke legal. All that high taxes stuff is just to gain more income for the country.. Cheapest smoke here is 2.70 Euro a packet Wich is a lot but still better than NY city..saw on the news that they pay about 7 dollar a pack there now..need to get the money to rebuild the WTF somewhere right well the one thing that NY-city does right now is making sure i wont go there on a holiday. __________________ GA-7VRXP, AMD2000+, 256MB PC-2700 DDR, Radeon 8500LE, 2x Maxtor 740 (40GB) stripe set, AGNeovo X-150.

Aug 25, 2002, 08:28 AM	Thread Starter #20
JavaFox E Pluribus Unum Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,203 Rep Power: 0	Shit! I apologize profusely! I keep hitting "edit" instead of quote. Sorry, reno.

Aug 25, 2002, 10:16 AM	#21
~~ByteMe~~ Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 761 Rep Power: 0	Everyone seems to miss what I believe is the most basic fact of all of this. It all comes down to responsibility. Most of this "burden" is the females (and if you disagree I don't care because YOUR A FOKKING MORON). I am 0% religious (and yes you can kiss my a$$ here too). Abortion is just a "fix" for irresponsible people (mostly females). If I was a female I would NOT have an abortion, I'd use one of the other options. But I will not force my opinion (which is fact) upon the stupid no-class sluts that do so choose to have one. You see, women have the greatest ability of the sexes... unfortunately for some they cannot handle the responsibility that comes with this ability. Too bad they are so stupid.

Aug 25, 2002, 11:09 AM	#22
Kelsenellenelvian Master of my own Destiny Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: EverDawn Kingdom,TruEarth Posts: 1,394 Rep Power: 0	For once ByteMe I actually agree with you abortion should be for extreme cases like rape, teen mothers or when the mother or fetus are already in life endangering circumstances. Instead of for the lazy fkers out there that can't take the time to say no, swallow a pill or even slip on a condom. Abortion is a serious choice not a quick fix for the stupid!!! If you can get pregnant you should carry to full term and at least give the baby to someone who cannot have children and are praying that they can raise one of their own. Quit calling it pro-choice and call it what it really is a quick fix for all the stupid people who can't control themselves and get in a position that they don't want, or have the maturity to deal with. __________________ [color=#0000ff] Download Windows Post-Install Wizard v4.3.8 and WPI Lite v1.2 Here** [/color][color=red][color=blue][/color][/color]

Aug 25, 2002, 07:20 PM	#23
reno Painlord of Ichor Join Date: May 2002 Location: bloinkin! Posts: 1,610 Rep Power: 0	hg No problem Java It's a hard luck life sometimes, hehe. Byteme: It's really going to be tough for you to get a girlfriend thinking like that, it's not 100 percent the responsibility of the woman. The man has to be a man and use a condom, the woman doesn't have to put it on for him. And by the way, contraception isn't 100% effective anyway, I know a friend who was conceived while his mother was on depo-provera (3 month birth control), using spermicidal foam, and his dad was using a condom. Condom broke, spermicide didn't catch all of the sperm, progestin didn't make the uterus hostile enough. Accidents happen, and if it's caught within the first few weeks (before the "fetus" is more than just a few hundred cells) I think accidents should be allowed to be corrected. Christ, your attitude just screams retard. Maybe if you actually had sex with women you'd take more of the responsibility on yourself. A woman always produces an egg, and she always carries it for a few days, but it takes one of a man's sperm to do the dirty deed of impregnating her, and I think it's the man's fault for impregnating anyway. Most unwanted pregnancies happen between the ages of 14-18, where birth control is only obtainable with parental permission. How many fathers would like to have their 15 year old come up to them with their 20 year old boyfriend and ask for birth control pills? "Uh, it's for cramps daddy...yeah..." Come on. It's the man's responsibility to protect his woman from his loaded gun, not the woman's. I wouldn't be surprised if you were an accident yourself, I diagnose your mental handicap as "maternally induced, repeated bludgeoning to the head; possible abortion attempt by way of falling down stairs multiple times" syndrome.

Aug 29, 2002, 09:35 AM	#28
Smoothdrive Foolish Genius Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 455 Rep Power: 0	Dunno about US..they seem a little less human in most cases..but here an abortion is not an easy thing for a woman..it's emotionally difficult on them..so saying it's just a correction of a mistake as if you're getting a nose-job is far to simple. Even an abortion after a rape is not a decision easily made for a woman. That's partially why i feel they should be able to get an abortion..it's difficult enough to have one without people saying it's murder etc. etc. __________________ GA-7VRXP, AMD2000+, 256MB PC-2700 DDR, Radeon 8500LE, 2x Maxtor 740 (40GB) stripe set, AGNeovo X-150.

Aug 29, 2002, 09:57 AM	#29
kinetic DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Manchester England Posts: 2,559 Rep Power: 0	Abortion is a very emotive issue but although fundamentally I am against it, it does have a use in society. Severe birth defects are probably the strongest arguement but I'm sure, from a womans point of view, there are many others. Most women take such a decision very seriously and it can fill them with guilt. Effectively, they grieve for the rest of their lives and no-one would wish that on anybody. On the other hand there are those women who are very flippant about the whole thing and treat abortion as contraception and it is this that is morally wrong in my opinion.

Aug 29, 2002, 09:55 PM	Thread Starter #30
JavaFox E Pluribus Unum Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,203 Rep Power: 0	Kinetic, respect your opinion I do, but, as I said earlier, the only person that can decide whether or not their life is worth living is the grown fetus. That isn't the mother's decision.