NVIDIA OR ATI, WHICH SUCKS????

Zardon · May 9, 2002, 01:16 AM

personally I like them both, but I love my Radeon 8500, anyone disagree and think it sucks?

jcastill · May 9, 2002, 01:20 AM

I really like ATI, and I don't like nVidia because they bought 3Dfx.... But the final decition will come with the nv30 and the r300... And personally I don't know which product will be better, but I expect that both companies will give their best in IQ and speed (the two cards are going to be benchmarked together)

So who knows, but other than that I'm a fanATIc lol.

Jeff · May 9, 2002, 01:22 AM

Crap people are too nice for this forum. Oh well, hopefully things will heat up.

Mark_Fox · May 9, 2002, 01:31 AM

I don't think any of them really suck at the moment, I just wished that ATi would release their cards a bit closer to when nVidia releases theirs. At the moment (and since March) if you want the best card on the market - Geforce4 TI 4600 is the answer - and there's nothing from ATi that can compete with it at the moment. I would like to see something from ATi of the same performance or even better soon after or even before Geforce4 TI 4600 became available. But so far, nothing

What do you think? Would that be better?

digitalwanderer · May 9, 2002, 01:39 AM

They are so damned boring! You install 'em, you install some drivers, you over-clock 'em til they glow, then you just play games. No tweaking, no hunting down weird game issues, no fun at all!!!

Don't make the mistake I did, stay a fanATIc! You'll lose your edge over on the dark side.

EFA11 · May 9, 2002, 11:24 AM

Quote:

no hunting down weird game issues, no fun at all!!!

Huh? You look forward to incompatibilities? lol!

Mark_Fox · May 9, 2002, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
No tweaking, no hunting down weird game issues, no fun at all!!!

Its fun to tweak but its also good to have great performance/stability without needing to tweak if you can't be bothered to or you simply don't know how to.

digitalwanderer · May 9, 2002, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EFA11
Huh? You look forward to incompatibilities? lol!

Yup. Call me a geek, but I like chasing down problems. (I'm weird that way.)

It's like going from a standard transmission to an automatic for me. Yes, it probably works better than my standard and it's a lot less trouble...but it makes driving a whole lot less fun!

Like I say, it's just my personal opinion....and I'm weird.

tecmic · May 9, 2002, 03:05 PM

Hi,

Yeah, it's fun tweaking and resolving probs with yer kit but it's almost unique to pc owners cos we always look for more power and speed. The only other area to do this, I can think of at the moment, is cars (autos to our Amex friends) What we gonna do when pc graphics achieve cinematic quality with no motion glitches? It aint long coming. Another 2 - 3 generations, I would guess. The pundits say we'll be on 3 gHz processors by the end of 2002 or early 03. FSB's at 500Mhz plus and faster memory. Personall, I can't wait.

M.

EFA11 · May 9, 2002, 03:38 PM

digitalwanderer, your in luck with ATI then

ATI is getting better, and that needs to be considered these days. ATI's drivers were a total joke at one time. Now they are only half of what they used to be

MousePotato · May 9, 2002, 03:47 PM

For myself, i've always been an ati user, i tried the gf3 ti200, and it was the most poison piece of shit i ever had the displeasure of trying to install....i tried all possible driver combos to no avail, and that was with 3 different clean OS installs....F*** what a hateful night that was....so in my books Nvidia sucks the big ol boiled arse !!!
I'll be staying with ati thanks!

toddalaska · May 9, 2002, 04:16 PM

as a mod in this section all i have to say is that this is way to friendly!!!!

LETS SEE SOME BLOOD!!!!!!!

Oh Yeah the Matrox is gonna SMokem All

digitalwanderer · May 9, 2002, 04:23 PM

Damn it, we're all WAY too civil about this!

I think the basic problem is that all of us here already know that ATI and nVidia both make some great products and we all just love viddy hardware too much, regardless of manufacturer. I've yet still to have a video card that I didn't fall head-over-heels in love with and think was just the sh1tzels when I got it. (THREE brands, not just two.

)

Halon_X · May 9, 2002, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zardon
personally I like them both, but I love my Radeon 8500, anyone disagree and think it sucks?

Word!! That makkes two of us Zardon.

I like them both. Actually I tried both. But my heart beats a lot harder for ATi. Gotta love its visual vividness!!

Halon_X · May 9, 2002, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toddalaska
[b]as a mod in this section all i have to say is that this is way to friendly!!!!

LETS SEE SOME BLOOD!!!!!!!
b]

True true!!
So..... NVidia suckz big time!! Poor Idiots <oh my bad> NVIdiots paying 400 and 300 something for a card!! Jen Hsu Huang is playing with your pocketz!!

One minute of silence for the poor souls.................

FastGame · May 10, 2002, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halon_X
True true!!
So..... NVidia suckz big time!! Poor Idiots <oh my bad> NVIdiots paying 400 and 300 something for a card!! Jen Hsu Huang is playing with your pocketz!!

Thats the going price for Turn On and Enjoy !

The 8500 made my Web pages look like Las Vegas , but at 200 or what ever a card isn't that a little steep for a 2D card ?

Quote:

Halon_X
I like them both. Actually I tried both. But my heart beats a lot harder for ATi. Gotta love its visual vividness!!

LoL.. how right you are , 8500 gave me the most vivid visual artifacts I ever did see.

Utill R300 & Nv30 the Truth hurts....Ti 4600 is King.

Do I smell Blood ?

JavaFox · May 10, 2002, 08:29 AM

I think the question is not, "Who sucks, ATI or NVIDIA?" but rather "Who sucks, fanATIcs or nVidiots?"

And the answer is quite easy. They both suck.

Firstly, you got your ATI fans that, basically, are all bitter that ATI lacks the resources and knowhow to put out a new chip every six months like the juggernaut nVidia. You'll hear these sorry bastards whining about how the GeForces are all the same, or how nVidia's image quality is horrible -- and it all is, really, horseshit. These lame fanboys are just trying to make themselves feel better. They don't really care about image quality. If they did, they'd be running a Matrox card, now wouldn't they? Truth of the matter is, these idiots couldn't tell the difference between a 3D image rendered on a 8500 and the same image on a GF3. And anyone that can say the GF2 and the GF3 are the same product obviously must be braindead, because a GF3 is such a huge technological leap. fanATIcs are lame.

On the other hand, so are nVidiots. They are so arrogant and vehement about defending nVidia that it really does call their mental competence into question. And some nVidiots are DAMNED stupid, let me tell you. A lot of them can't tell the difference between a GF4MX and a GF4Ti. They just know Nvidia is good. Or something.

So basically, you're all damn fools. Except me.

peterosesbookie · May 10, 2002, 01:52 PM

I am not trying to flame Nvidia or Ati. The MAIN problem that I have with Nvidia is that they bought 3dfx's plans. Now after all this time, I have NOT seen any dual GPU's or even quads like the 5500 and the 3dfx 6000. Many of our nations (USA) flight similuators ran on many 3dfx cards. I had one of the first 3dfx cards a Voodoo3 1000 made by Savage/ S3 Virge. It has 16 Mb of ram and was very fast at the time, but only had Mpeg1 decoding.

Why I converted to ATi - is that they try to keep up to date with the latest technologies in the way of VIVO cards. I really enjoy watching tv while browsing the net having TV as my wallpaper and being able to watch dvd on my TV (I do not have Svideo inputs). I just love how ati does their VIVO cards.

As far as Nvidia goes, the only maker of their cards that I like is Visontek because they made an everything card, but it is now old, but they did come out with an Svideo in/out on their latest card Geforce4 4600, but both companies need to start working on SMP GPU graphics cards either being 2-8 does not really matter.

Nvidia has had better drivers in the past, but Ati has been really working on their drivers for WHQL certification. I do not remember the last time that the leaked driver was the same as the WHQL driver like the latest one.

The Big problem that I see coming forth is that when Microsoft decides to have Windows OS to become completely 3D. The Videocards today would not even break a pixel on the Screen in hardware acceleration (maybe in software they may - I don't know). I can remember when their was the big hype from going from 16 bit to 32 bit when the Pentium Pro came out. Everyone thought that 32 bit applications would not even have a go. Well now 6-8 years later, it is running. Just like Bill Gates said it back in 1981 and i quote, "640K of memory should be enough for anybody." I just cannot wait in about 2 years there will be a 64-128 bit 3D Microsoft Windows.

take care

Pete

WyreTheWolf · May 10, 2002, 02:57 PM

YOU ALL ARE CRAZY!

FRIGGEN ATI SUXORS! NVIDIA FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! WHY IN THE NAME OF HE|| WOULD YOU WANT TO EVER HAVE TO GO THRU AND ACTUALLY TWEAK DRIVERS, TRY AND UNDERSTAND THE HARDWARE?!?!?!?! DAMNITALL WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO SPEND THE TIME TO FIGURE OUT THE HARDWARE, FIGURE OUT WHAT MAKES THE SOFTWARE DRIVERS TICK, AND THEN TRY TO MAKE THEM WORK TOGETHER?

GO NVIDIA... IT IS EASY, YES I KNOW THEY COST MORE... BUT WHO HERE IS CRAZY ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY CARE... YOU INSTALL IT, INSTALL THE DRIVER, AND GO PLAY! EASY!

I SAY NVIDIA FOREVER... ATI IS FOR LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

btw, this entire post is BS... and everyone knows it.

Halon_X · May 10, 2002, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FastGame
Thats the going price for Turn On and Enjoy !

The 8500 made my Web pages look like Las Vegas , but at 200 or what ever a card isn't that a little steep for a 2D card ?

LoL.. how right you are , 8500 gave me the most vivid visual artifacts I ever did see.

Utill R300 & Nv30 the Truth hurts....Ti 4600 is King.

Do I smell Blood ?

HAHA!! You want a piece of me???

Compare!! Math 101:

400-4600
160-8500
equals 240 bucks of difference!!

To hell with a ridiculously amount of FPS. Which game needs it now?? Those aditional FPS can be good for your ass!!
So go ahead!! Be a King with your ass ripped!! BTW you want me to send you a Kotex???

Back at ya!!
WAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRR!!!!!

Yeti · May 10, 2002, 07:06 PM

Additional FPS is always good.

I refuse to play MP games like Q3 and Tribes 2 at less than 60 fps. 30fps may please your eye but you need more in order to reduce controller lag etc.

The more fps the better so keep it up nvidia

and as for ATI a 85k costs 100$ right now. Keep up the good work.

Halon_X · May 10, 2002, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JavaFox

So basically, you're all damn fools. Except me.

Except you of course. Cause you're the only dickhead in here. All of us are only fools. Actually we don't give a damn about your opinion.

For me ATi is king. You're the kind of guy that can only flame with the upcoming products. Non existent products in the time being.

So if you ain't gonna post anything about the thread per se, please save your shitty statements.

Do I smell blood??

This is WAAAAAAAAARRRRR..............

FastGame · May 10, 2002, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halon_X
HAHA!! You want a piece of me???

Compare!! Math 101:

400-4600
160-8500
equals 240 bucks of difference!!

To hell with a ridiculously amount of FPS. Which game needs it now?? Those aditional FPS can be good for your ass!!
So go ahead!! Be a King with your ass ripped!! BTW you want me to send you a Kotex???

Back at ya!!
WAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRR!!!!!

OMG..sounds like I already got a piece of ya !! now it's time to chop ya up into little bitty pieces !

Math 101 ! revisited !!

Ti 4600= 298
ATI 8500 128ddr=245
equals 53 bucks diffrence , well worth it for a real 3D card !!
All prices are latest Price Watch & don't give me that lesser 8500 price crap cuz I'll stick a Ti 4200 on ya and blow your ass away again ! Ha Ha

Oh and go ahead send that Kotex , but while your drulling wipe your mouth with it first...might as well get your money's worth out something you bought ! Ha Ha

Back at ya !!!

Yeti · May 10, 2002, 08:37 PM

Ri-Ta-Lin my friend Ritalin

Btw... for a 10% clock speed difference i do mind shelling out an extra 150$ (R85k vs LE)

Quite frankly the R85k is on sale for what 100$ right now? i hate to say this but a lot more people will be buying radeons than GF3's and GF4's.

All i can say is enjoy your GF4. I just don't have the cash to buy one.

"Love and Peace" - Vash T.S.

DarkAngel · May 11, 2002, 01:27 AM

I have to agree with Yeti....FastGame, you need to find yourself some Ritalin and enjoy what it does for you.

And yes, a few extra FPS is a very nice thing to have (45-60 is key in just about any game right now). I think that if you have a card/setup that cranks out 300fps in Quake3 (which sucked...UT ROCKED!!), an ageing engine, you know what you got?? Bragging rights. Thats it. You hit 300FPS in Q3A...Yippie for you. Now what?? Um, you don't have any cash left for any new game so you're stuck playing Quake3. (Opps, didn't think of that one did ya...thats your $53 difference) ATi Takes the Price-point crown, nVidia takes the "First to 300FPS" crown. And you can't exactly drop down to the 4200, cause then you lose your "300FPS Crown" and you got nothing...you are that, equal to the ATi 8500. I think that both ATi and nVidia need to take a break from the speed crown and focus on what matters...ImageQuality. It doesn't matter how many thousands of FPS you get, if you can't see a clear picture...whats the point?? Also I think nVidia needs to REALLY think about the heat that their GPU is creating (3dfx got a bunch of crap for their voodoo3 3500, anyone taken a temp reading off the 4600??).

Here a slightly different look: a 4600 cost about $300 (BTW - hows that PowerColor working out for ya?? Cause that is the ONLY 4600 listed on PW for $298!! Personally I'd like a more "well known" card...like say MSI for $307(+15 s/h)). Anyway... A 4600 costs ABOUT $300 and you get 300FPS. An ATi 8500 All-in-Wonder 128mb goes for $309 (plus $8 s/h) and you get awesome FPS (not 300 though), and you can connect to just about any video device you can think! Sounds to me like ATi did the smart thing and gave Us (the Consumers) a few EXTRAS. I'm down with that! So to me it sounds like nVidia is lacking a bit in the feature set. FPS isn't everything. We have FPS, I want something more!

So now how bout that $53 dollar difference?? You can have 300FPS, or you can have 200FPS, but also be able to kick it out on your TV. ATi did something good. Something I wished nVidia would have done a long time ago.

digitalwanderer · May 11, 2002, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DarkAngel
ATi did something good. Something I wished nVidia would have done a long time ago.

Yes, but if you would have bought your 8500 when it first came out how do you think you would have liked that first 6 months of crappy-assed drivers and bad excuses?

DarkAngel · May 11, 2002, 01:55 AM

My dad did get an 8500 when they were first released, and I helped him with all sorts of driver issues and crap (while I played UT on my GF2 Pro). And when the Ti200 was in its prime, he went out and bought another 8500. ATi fixed many (not all) of the driver issues they had with the 8500, and one of the nicer features that he likes on the 8500 is the VIVO and the image quality. So I did feel that ATi sucked (and I told my Dad on several occasions...trying to get him to put his GF2Ultra back in so we could play UT) because of the drivers, but after all the crap he and I went through ATi came through. Good things come to those who wait.

FastGame · May 11, 2002, 02:36 PM

If you would of notice the subject of ATI vs Nvidia was to become a flame war , one which even the Mod's were clamoring for Blood !...prod more Blood

I for one don't like Flames , but I decided to give it a go and in doing so choose the one person (Halon_X) who I thought could bring it on with the Best...not saying I'm the best. Anyway He did a nice job , just seems the Peace Love keeps getting in the way.

Thats all fine with me ! , after all I own both cards (8500 & Ti4600) and I'm Happy with Both ! Like I said in My first post , until R300 or NV30 , Ti 4600 is the card ! It's up to the Individual to decide at what cost the few little extras are worth.

Now ?...why Ritalin for the Nvidia point of view ?

peterosesbookie · May 13, 2002, 02:04 AM

Well to sum up my previous post. I Love having a VIVO card with most of the latest technology. I would like to go Nvidia, but Visontek's everything card needs to beefed up to a 4600 series or beyond with dual Gpu's. At this point in the game, it would just not be worth the upgrade to me to sacrifice Ati All-in-wonder radeon 8500 DV. I am not into gaming that much to even own a Nvidia card. I am more into audio and video editing.

WyreTheWolf -- I went crazy building my lastest rig:

Here are my system specs:

Antec sx-1030B
Antec PP-510D Power Supply
Tyan Thunder K7 S2462 -NG
2 AMD Athlon MP 1900+ (1.6 ghz)
ATI ALL IN WONDER RADEON 8500 DV
2 sticks of Crucial REG ECC 2100 256MB Memory (512 total)
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz
Promise Raid TX2000 ATA 133
2 40 GB Hard drives Maxtor diamond max plus 7200RPM (boot and backup)
2 60 GB Hard drives Maxtor diamond max plus 7200RPM (120-112GB Running raid 0)
Toshiba 16x dvd 1612
Plextor 24/12/40 black
Sony 3.5 Black floppy
All Vantec Cables to fit 3 18 2 24 (Floppy and dvd/cd drives)
2 Thermaltake 6CU+ 7000RPM
Cyber Cooler INC SC-180 System blower for videocard and soundcard heat
Ambient/Intel v.90 Hardware modem

future:
DVD R/RW when it becomes $200 and becomes standardized

All I use this for is Internet, Office, video editing, and Kyodai Mahjongg.

Benchmarks for 3Dmark2001SE: 7124

WyreTheWolf-- I think 3dfx was on the right track of adding more gpu's. I saw a significant difference between my Athlon XP 1900+ and the one above. My other system has the same specs except for it is on a MSI KT7 Ultra ARU, antec 400 watt ps. I have 3x the preformance with my lastest rig because of the Dual athlon's. I do not drop frames and when the video playsback the video does not jump. Just think about having SMP with the videocard gpu's.

take care

pete

May 13, 2002, 02:07 AM

dont go with NVIDIA, their quality control lately has been appalling.

May 9, 2002, 01:16 AM	#1
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 177	NVIDIA OR ATI, WHICH SUCKS???? personally I like them both, but I love my Radeon 8500, anyone disagree and think it sucks?

May 9, 2002, 01:22 AM	#3
Jeff Yarr... I be blind! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 74	Crap people are too nice for this forum. Oh well, hopefully things will heat up. __________________

May 9, 2002, 01:39 AM	#5
digitalwanderer Colour Commentator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Highland, IN USA Posts: 5,620 Rep Power: 0	nVidia's SUCK! They are so damned boring! You install 'em, you install some drivers, you over-clock 'em til they glow, then you just play games. No tweaking, no hunting down weird game issues, no fun at all!!! Don't make the mistake I did, stay a fanATIc! You'll lose your edge over on the dark side. __________________ WTF is up with the sigs?

May 9, 2002, 03:05 PM	#9
tecmic DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wiltshire,UK Posts: 1 Rep Power: 0	Prob solving & tweaking Hi, Yeah, it's fun tweaking and resolving probs with yer kit but it's almost unique to pc owners cos we always look for more power and speed. The only other area to do this, I can think of at the moment, is cars (autos to our Amex friends) What we gonna do when pc graphics achieve cinematic quality with no motion glitches? It aint long coming. Another 2 - 3 generations, I would guess. The pundits say we'll be on 3 gHz processors by the end of 2002 or early 03. FSB's at 500Mhz plus and faster memory. Personall, I can't wait. M.

May 9, 2002, 03:38 PM	#10
EFA11 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Gamers-Ammo Admin Land Posts: 48 Rep Power: 0	digitalwanderer, your in luck with ATI then ATI is getting better, and that needs to be considered these days. ATI's drivers were a total joke at one time. Now they are only half of what they used to be __________________ www.gamers-ammo.com

May 9, 2002, 01:20 AM	#2
jcastill Mexico Man! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mexico Posts: 87 Rep Power: 0	I really like ATI, and I don't like nVidia because they bought 3Dfx.... But the final decition will come with the nv30 and the r300... And personally I don't know which product will be better, but I expect that both companies will give their best in IQ and speed (the two cards are going to be benchmarked together) So who knows, but other than that I'm a fanATIc lol.

May 9, 2002, 01:31 AM	#4
Mark_Fox RIP Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 308 Rep Power: 0	I don't think any of them really suck at the moment, I just wished that ATi would release their cards a bit closer to when nVidia releases theirs. At the moment (and since March) if you want the best card on the market - Geforce4 TI 4600 is the answer - and there's nothing from ATi that can compete with it at the moment. I would like to see something from ATi of the same performance or even better soon after or even before Geforce4 TI 4600 became available. But so far, nothing What do you think? Would that be better?

May 9, 2002, 03:47 PM	#11
MousePotato HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: May 2002 Location: N.S., Canada Posts: 124 Rep Power: 60 System Specs	For myself, i've always been an ati user, i tried the gf3 ti200, and it was the most poison piece of shit i ever had the displeasure of trying to install....i tried all possible driver combos to no avail, and that was with 3 different clean OS installs....F*** what a hateful night that was....so in my books Nvidia sucks the big ol boiled arse !!! I'll be staying with ati thanks!

May 9, 2002, 04:16 PM	#12
toddalaska DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 50 Rep Power: 0	as a mod in this section all i have to say is that this is way to friendly!!!! LETS SEE SOME BLOOD!!!!!!! Oh Yeah the Matrox is gonna SMokem All __________________ epox 8k5a3+ 2400+ @ 2340 203*11.5 512 orsair 3200 203 fsb geforce4 ti4200 13253 3d marks 2 ibm 120gxp raid 0 WINXP PRO BIG BLACK ANTEC CASE Water cooled 32 idol - 37 prime95 tc4 - custom res and shroud by webmedic thats all thas important!

May 9, 2002, 04:23 PM	#13
digitalwanderer Colour Commentator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Highland, IN USA Posts: 5,620 Rep Power: 0	This is WAY too tame! Damn it, we're all WAY too civil about this! I think the basic problem is that all of us here already know that ATI and nVidia both make some great products and we all just love viddy hardware too much, regardless of manufacturer. I've yet still to have a video card that I didn't fall head-over-heels in love with and think was just the sh1tzels when I got it. (THREE brands, not just two. ) __________________ WTF is up with the sigs?

May 10, 2002, 08:29 AM	#17
JavaFox E Pluribus Unum Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,203 Rep Power: 0	The cards are fine, the FANS are fools. I think the question is not, "Who sucks, ATI or NVIDIA?" but rather "Who sucks, fanATIcs or nVidiots?" And the answer is quite easy. They both suck. Firstly, you got your ATI fans that, basically, are all bitter that ATI lacks the resources and knowhow to put out a new chip every six months like the juggernaut nVidia. You'll hear these sorry bastards whining about how the GeForces are all the same, or how nVidia's image quality is horrible -- and it all is, really, horseshit. These lame fanboys are just trying to make themselves feel better. They don't really care about image quality. If they did, they'd be running a Matrox card, now wouldn't they? Truth of the matter is, these idiots couldn't tell the difference between a 3D image rendered on a 8500 and the same image on a GF3. And anyone that can say the GF2 and the GF3 are the same product obviously must be braindead, because a GF3 is such a huge technological leap. fanATIcs are lame. On the other hand, so are nVidiots. They are so arrogant and vehement about defending nVidia that it really does call their mental competence into question. And some nVidiots are DAMNED stupid, let me tell you. A lot of them can't tell the difference between a GF4MX and a GF4Ti. They just know Nvidia is good. Or something. So basically, you're all damn fools. Except me.

May 10, 2002, 01:52 PM	#18
peterosesbookie HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: OHIO Posts: 556 Rep Power: 0	My Problem with Nvidia and Why I went with ATi, -- but they both need work! I am not trying to flame Nvidia or Ati. The MAIN problem that I have with Nvidia is that they bought 3dfx's plans. Now after all this time, I have NOT seen any dual GPU's or even quads like the 5500 and the 3dfx 6000. Many of our nations (USA) flight similuators ran on many 3dfx cards. I had one of the first 3dfx cards a Voodoo3 1000 made by Savage/ S3 Virge. It has 16 Mb of ram and was very fast at the time, but only had Mpeg1 decoding. Why I converted to ATi - is that they try to keep up to date with the latest technologies in the way of VIVO cards. I really enjoy watching tv while browsing the net having TV as my wallpaper and being able to watch dvd on my TV (I do not have Svideo inputs). I just love how ati does their VIVO cards. As far as Nvidia goes, the only maker of their cards that I like is Visontek because they made an everything card, but it is now old, but they did come out with an Svideo in/out on their latest card Geforce4 4600, but both companies need to start working on SMP GPU graphics cards either being 2-8 does not really matter. Nvidia has had better drivers in the past, but Ati has been really working on their drivers for WHQL certification. I do not remember the last time that the leaked driver was the same as the WHQL driver like the latest one. The Big problem that I see coming forth is that when Microsoft decides to have Windows OS to become completely 3D. The Videocards today would not even break a pixel on the Screen in hardware acceleration (maybe in software they may - I don't know). I can remember when their was the big hype from going from 16 bit to 32 bit when the Pentium Pro came out. Everyone thought that 32 bit applications would not even have a go. Well now 6-8 years later, it is running. Just like Bill Gates said it back in 1981 and i quote, "640K of memory should be enough for anybody." I just cannot wait in about 2 years there will be a 64-128 bit 3D Microsoft Windows. take care Pete __________________ A Cat almost always blinks when hit in the head with a ball peen hammer!

May 10, 2002, 02:57 PM	#19
WyreTheWolf Wolfish Bastard Join Date: May 2002 Location: Cave; Ozark Mountains Posts: 2,111 Rep Power: 0	YOU ALL ARE CRAZY! FRIGGEN ATI SUXORS! NVIDIA FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! WHY IN THE NAME OF HE\|\| WOULD YOU WANT TO EVER HAVE TO GO THRU AND ACTUALLY TWEAK DRIVERS, TRY AND UNDERSTAND THE HARDWARE?!?!?!?! DAMNITALL WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO SPEND THE TIME TO FIGURE OUT THE HARDWARE, FIGURE OUT WHAT MAKES THE SOFTWARE DRIVERS TICK, AND THEN TRY TO MAKE THEM WORK TOGETHER? GO NVIDIA... IT IS EASY, YES I KNOW THEY COST MORE... BUT WHO HERE IS CRAZY ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY CARE... YOU INSTALL IT, INSTALL THE DRIVER, AND GO PLAY! EASY! I SAY NVIDIA FOREVER... ATI IS FOR LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! btw, this entire post is BS... and everyone knows it.

May 10, 2002, 07:06 PM	#21
Yeti DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 662 Rep Power: 0	Additional FPS is always good. I refuse to play MP games like Q3 and Tribes 2 at less than 60 fps. 30fps may please your eye but you need more in order to reduce controller lag etc. The more fps the better so keep it up nvidia and as for ATI a 85k costs 100$ right now. Keep up the good work. __________________ --Oh lord not again

May 10, 2002, 08:37 PM	#24
Yeti DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 662 Rep Power: 0	Ri-Ta-Lin my friend Ritalin Btw... for a 10% clock speed difference i do mind shelling out an extra 150$ (R85k vs LE) Quite frankly the R85k is on sale for what 100$ right now? i hate to say this but a lot more people will be buying radeons than GF3's and GF4's. All i can say is enjoy your GF4. I just don't have the cash to buy one. "Love and Peace" - Vash T.S. __________________ --Oh lord not again

May 11, 2002, 01:27 AM	#25
DarkAngel DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Massachusetts - USA Posts: 32 Rep Power: 0	I have to agree with Yeti....FastGame, you need to find yourself some Ritalin and enjoy what it does for you. And yes, a few extra FPS is a very nice thing to have (45-60 is key in just about any game right now). I think that if you have a card/setup that cranks out 300fps in Quake3 (which sucked...UT ROCKED!!), an ageing engine, you know what you got?? Bragging rights. Thats it. You hit 300FPS in Q3A...Yippie for you. Now what?? Um, you don't have any cash left for any new game so you're stuck playing Quake3. (Opps, didn't think of that one did ya...thats your $53 difference) ATi Takes the Price-point crown, nVidia takes the "First to 300FPS" crown. And you can't exactly drop down to the 4200, cause then you lose your "300FPS Crown" and you got nothing...you are that, equal to the ATi 8500. I think that both ATi and nVidia need to take a break from the speed crown and focus on what matters...ImageQuality. It doesn't matter how many thousands of FPS you get, if you can't see a clear picture...whats the point?? Also I think nVidia needs to REALLY think about the heat that their GPU is creating (3dfx got a bunch of crap for their voodoo3 3500, anyone taken a temp reading off the 4600??). Here a slightly different look: a 4600 cost about $300 (BTW - hows that PowerColor working out for ya?? Cause that is the ONLY 4600 listed on PW for $298!! Personally I'd like a more "well known" card...like say MSI for $307(+15 s/h)). Anyway... A 4600 costs ABOUT $300 and you get 300FPS. An ATi 8500 All-in-Wonder 128mb goes for $309 (plus $8 s/h) and you get awesome FPS (not 300 though), and you can connect to just about any video device you can think! Sounds to me like ATi did the smart thing and gave Us (the Consumers) a few EXTRAS. I'm down with that! So to me it sounds like nVidia is lacking a bit in the feature set. FPS isn't everything. We have FPS, I want something more! So now how bout that $53 dollar difference?? You can have 300FPS, or you can have 200FPS, but also be able to kick it out on your TV. ATi did something good. Something I wished nVidia would have done a long time ago. __________________ -={DarkAngel}=- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Intel P3 800Mhz (Slot1 GoldenOrb) 640MB PC133 Hercules GF2 Pro 64MB (BlueOrb Mod) 128gb HD (60/45/30) ATA100 7200RPM Plextor 40x SCSI / Plextor 8x20 SCSI / Plextor 121032 IDE 16x Pioneer DVD SoundBlaster Live Platinum WindowsXP Professional

May 11, 2002, 01:55 AM	#27
DarkAngel DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Massachusetts - USA Posts: 32 Rep Power: 0	RE: yes, but My dad did get an 8500 when they were first released, and I helped him with all sorts of driver issues and crap (while I played UT on my GF2 Pro). And when the Ti200 was in its prime, he went out and bought another 8500. ATi fixed many (not all) of the driver issues they had with the 8500, and one of the nicer features that he likes on the 8500 is the VIVO and the image quality. So I did feel that ATi sucked (and I told my Dad on several occasions...trying to get him to put his GF2Ultra back in so we could play UT) because of the drivers, but after all the crap he and I went through ATi came through. Good things come to those who wait. __________________ -={DarkAngel}=- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Intel P3 800Mhz (Slot1 GoldenOrb) 640MB PC133 Hercules GF2 Pro 64MB (BlueOrb Mod) 128gb HD (60/45/30) ATA100 7200RPM Plextor 40x SCSI / Plextor 8x20 SCSI / Plextor 121032 IDE 16x Pioneer DVD SoundBlaster Live Platinum WindowsXP Professional

May 11, 2002, 02:36 PM	#28
FastGame DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 14 Rep Power: 0	Look Guys If you would of notice the subject of ATI vs Nvidia was to become a flame war , one which even the Mod's were clamoring for Blood !...prod more Blood I for one don't like Flames , but I decided to give it a go and in doing so choose the one person (Halon_X) who I thought could bring it on with the Best...not saying I'm the best. Anyway He did a nice job , just seems the Peace Love keeps getting in the way. Thats all fine with me ! , after all I own both cards (8500 & Ti4600) and I'm Happy with Both ! Like I said in My first post , until R300 or NV30 , Ti 4600 is the card ! It's up to the Individual to decide at what cost the few little extras are worth. Now ?...why Ritalin for the Nvidia point of view ?

May 13, 2002, 02:04 AM	#29
peterosesbookie HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: OHIO Posts: 556 Rep Power: 0	I would go Nvidia BUT WHERE IS VIVO on there lastest technology! Well to sum up my previous post. I Love having a VIVO card with most of the latest technology. I would like to go Nvidia, but Visontek's everything card needs to beefed up to a 4600 series or beyond with dual Gpu's. At this point in the game, it would just not be worth the upgrade to me to sacrifice Ati All-in-wonder radeon 8500 DV. I am not into gaming that much to even own a Nvidia card. I am more into audio and video editing. WyreTheWolf -- I went crazy building my lastest rig: Here are my system specs: Antec sx-1030B Antec PP-510D Power Supply Tyan Thunder K7 S2462 -NG 2 AMD Athlon MP 1900+ (1.6 ghz) ATI ALL IN WONDER RADEON 8500 DV 2 sticks of Crucial REG ECC 2100 256MB Memory (512 total) Turtle Beach Santa Cruz Promise Raid TX2000 ATA 133 2 40 GB Hard drives Maxtor diamond max plus 7200RPM (boot and backup) 2 60 GB Hard drives Maxtor diamond max plus 7200RPM (120-112GB Running raid 0) Toshiba 16x dvd 1612 Plextor 24/12/40 black Sony 3.5 Black floppy All Vantec Cables to fit 3 18 2 24 (Floppy and dvd/cd drives) 2 Thermaltake 6CU+ 7000RPM Cyber Cooler INC SC-180 System blower for videocard and soundcard heat Ambient/Intel v.90 Hardware modem future: DVD R/RW when it becomes $200 and becomes standardized All I use this for is Internet, Office, video editing, and Kyodai Mahjongg. Benchmarks for 3Dmark2001SE: 7124 WyreTheWolf-- I think 3dfx was on the right track of adding more gpu's. I saw a significant difference between my Athlon XP 1900+ and the one above. My other system has the same specs except for it is on a MSI KT7 Ultra ARU, antec 400 watt ps. I have 3x the preformance with my lastest rig because of the Dual athlon's. I do not drop frames and when the video playsback the video does not jump. Just think about having SMP with the videocard gpu's. take care pete __________________ A Cat almost always blinks when hit in the head with a ball peen hammer!

May 13, 2002, 02:07 AM	#30
Billy Guest Posts: n/a	dont go with NVIDIA, their quality control lately has been appalling.