microsoft and their "updates"

Ryoko · Sep 16, 2002, 05:40 AM

i hate microsoft, but you already knew that.

i hate microsoft even more when they release "updates" and "upgrades" that really do nothing but decrease speed and stability. on this, my home computer, i have never updated any windows component. i am running as bare of win98se as you can get. at work, we run win98se, only with all the updates installed. today i have just noticed the first error my computer has had since i ran 12.10 drivers with my gf3. after browsing all day (and apparently receiving more than 100 megs on a 56k), internet explorer gpf'ed. great, i thought, now i'm going to lose everything i've been doing all day.

nope.

i.e. said 1 window had encountered an error and will be closed. at work, if that were to happen, i.e. upchucks and the computer hard locks. here, all it did was close the popup with the error, and everything else is completely stable. not even xp can boast that, as it restarts i.e., and closes all its windows. i love win98se.

be sure to add your bad experiences with updates or tell me i'm a dumbass below

*flame away!*

Zardon · Sep 16, 2002, 08:34 AM

WIN 98 ! ??? OMFG man, Id rather run Palm OS on my 2100XP, at least it can handle memory efficiently!

(good enough?)

***craig5320*** · Sep 16, 2002, 02:50 PM

I've got to say I love XP, it's like the programs are embarressed to admit they crashed and won't tell the other programs, instead they jus' quietly exit and restart as if nothing happened, aww bless 'em

fornicatarachnid · Sep 16, 2002, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryoko
tell me i'm a dumbass below

Well you did ask for it ............ [SIZE=large]dumbass ![/SIZE]

UberLord · Sep 16, 2002, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryoko
i hate microsoft even more when they release "updates" and "upgrades" that really do nothing but decrease speed and stability. on this, my home computer, i have never updated any windows component. i am running as bare of win98se as you can get. at work, we run win98se, only with all the updates installed. today i have just noticed the first error my computer has had since i ran 12.10 drivers with my gf3. after browsing all day (and apparently receiving more than 100 megs on a 56k), internet explorer gpf'ed. great, i thought, now i'm going to lose everything i've been doing all day.

Makes sense to me provided

1) You've got a decent firewall installed
2) You run a decent browser like Mozilla
3) You run a decent email client like Eudora (actually, Outlook is much much better - but then I look at the security holes and shudder)

Then you don't need any of their "updates"

Ryoko · Sep 16, 2002, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UberLord
Makes sense to me provided

1) You've got a decent firewall installed
2) You run a decent browser like Mozilla
3) You run a decent email client like Eudora (actually, Outlook is much much better - but then I look at the security holes and shudder)

Then you don't need any of their "updates"

1) I couldn't care less if i get hacked. i never have. i have also never gotten a virus. and i have also never installed any spyware, inadvertently or otherwise. i have 2 backups of all my data. 1 on cd, and 1 on a hard drive not connected to the computer. i am not at all opposed to reformatting on a whim either.
2) i.e. 5.0 has only given me 1 problem to date. that problem is listed above, and is in no way as serious as it could have been if i had been running i.e. 6.0 or the version that comes with xp. security holes are not an issue as listed in reply #1.
3) i run netscape messenger 4.78. it has all the options i need and again, security holes are not an issue.

so you see, i have no need for and am adamantly against running microsoft updates.

nForcer · Sep 17, 2002, 07:05 AM

I agree MS has problems with all thier updates for this, updates for that.

But look at ALL the software they make. I'm suprised they can even keep up with demand, let alone have the time and effort to find ALL the possible exploits and leaks for thier software. I guess you have to see it from a programmers standpoint inorder to see how much of a challange that really is.

No, I'm not a programmer (unless you count HTML) but I do know people who work inside Microsoft who are in my family. They say its "because they (MS) are so sucessful that other companies/consumers feel less and less secure and feel they need to 'get one back for the average man''. Turns out they only get thier fun for a few days, a week at most and its fixed." To those people I say 'get a life'.

UberLord · Sep 17, 2002, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryoko
1) I couldn't care less if i get hacked. i never have. i have also never gotten a virus. and i have also never installed any spyware, inadvertently or otherwise.

Do you wear a condom as protection?

It's the same argument. A firewall, decent security makes a condom for your computer

Smoothdrive · Sep 17, 2002, 12:35 PM

What is a decent firewall anyway ? I'm using that old free version of ZA..is that any good ?

PS Maybe one of you guys can enlighten me..how does kazaa or another P2P program effect your firewall security ? is it a leak to your entire hard drive ?

UberLord · Sep 17, 2002, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Smoothdrive
What is a decent firewall anyway ? I'm using that old free version of ZA..is that any good ?

PS Maybe one of you guys can enlighten me..how does kazaa or another P2P program effect your firewall security ? is it a leak to your entire hard drive ?

ZoneAlarm isn't bad - personally I don't use it as the latest version has a nasty habbit of locking itself up and eating my CPU time.

A firewalls purpose is to close off access to your computer from others. So, you have to instruct the firewall to open specific ports. ZoneAlarm is quite good here as it detects which ports to use.

The thing is, as an application (like Kazaa or UT) has to get through the firewall to talk to the internet. So, you have to trust the application that it's not going to do anything malicious. No for games, thats pretty much a gimmie. But for stuff like Kazaa - I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot barge poll. Kazaa lite looks relative OK as it's got no spyware or "brilliance" network.

It's all a matter of trust really.

digitalwanderer · Sep 17, 2002, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryoko
i hate microsoft even more when they release "updates" and "upgrades" that really do nothing but decrease speed and stability. on this, my home computer, i have never updated any windows component. i am running as bare of win98se as you can get. at work, we run win98se, only with all the updates installed. today i have just noticed the first error my computer has had since i ran 12.10 drivers with my gf3. after browsing all day (and apparently receiving more than 100 megs on a 56k), internet explorer gpf'ed. great, i thought, now i'm going to lose everything i've been doing all day.

nope.

i.e. said 1 window had encountered an error and will be closed. at work, if that were to happen, i.e. upchucks and the computer hard locks. here, all it did was close the popup with the error, and everything else is completely stable. not even xp can boast that, as it restarts i.e., and closes all its windows. i love win98se.

be sure to add your bad experiences with updates or tell me i'm a dumbass below

*flame away!*

I ain't gonna flame & I sure know better than to call you a dumbass, but I wanted to know what you felt the advantages to a non-patched 98se install are. I always patch my 98se installs with the 5.5 update & was just curious why you choose not to. I didn't think it added any real bloat/system slow-downs....am I wrong? Please enlighten me.

Smoothdrive · Sep 17, 2002, 03:22 PM

Thanks Uber, sorry for being off-tpoic..but you seem to know..i've been puzzling myself with this one.. using Proxy software to share an internet connection ..so the proxy software is allowed to go through the firewall both ways..won't that open up all internet traffic to the 2nd pc that is connected to the proxy ?? therefore the firewall will only protect 1 pc and not the network behind it ?? Or am i taking this logic too far ??

On Topic, I allways patch everything from MS..most patches are to close new leaks..my biggest concerns are kiddies using some hack tool and scr3wing up my system..real hackers won't bother hacking my home pc i guess..no challenge and nothing to gain..and virusses that scan for ports and abuse leaks to penetrate your system..hmm that sounded erotic..was it good for you too ?

UberLord · Sep 17, 2002, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Smoothdrive
Thanks Uber, sorry for being off-tpoic..but you seem to know..i've been puzzling myself with this one.. using Proxy software to share an internet connection ..so the proxy software is allowed to go through the firewall both ways..won't that open up all internet traffic to the 2nd pc that is connected to the proxy ?? therefore the firewall will only protect 1 pc and not the network behind it ?? Or am i taking this logic too far ??

Wrong

The proxy server still has to go through the firewall in the same way that another application does. In a way, this something that I don't like about ZoneAlarm - it's so easy to use it's hard to do "power stuff" with.

Actually, I've never seen ZoneAlarm work as a firewall on a proxy before.
I'd like to now what happens if you try a game on the 2nd PC - what happens? (btw, you would need to configure the 2nd PC's TCP/IP gateway to be the IP of the 1st PC to get this to work)

UberLord · Sep 17, 2002, 03:39 PM

Um - this is the flame warzone.

If anyone wants to chat about firewalls can they start a thread in the appropriate forum?

Smoothdrive · Sep 17, 2002, 03:55 PM

Sorry..i'll take it elsewhere

..damn now i have to figure out where the firewall topic is..hey hey 17.00 time to go home

YEAH STUPID MS AND THEIR STUPID UPDATES WHY DON"T THEY FINISH SOMETHING BEFORE PUTTING IT ON THE MARKET THOSE OVERPAID IDIOTS !!

That better ?

Ryoko · Sep 17, 2002, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
I ain't gonna flame & I sure know better than to call you a dumbass, but I wanted to know what you felt the advantages to a non-patched 98se install are. I always patch my 98se installs with the 5.5 update & was just curious why you choose not to. I didn't think it added any real bloat/system slow-downs....am I wrong? Please enlighten me.

well, i didn't get the 5.5 update, as that was the last good version of i.e., but the problems i listed above were from i.e. 6.0.

Sep 16, 2002, 02:50 PM	#3
*craig5320* HH Administrator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 8,565 Rep Power: 445 System Specs	I've got to say I love XP, it's like the programs are embarressed to admit they crashed and won't tell the other programs, instead they jus' quietly exit and restart as if nothing happened, aww bless 'em __________________ HardwareHeaven on Facebook

Sep 17, 2002, 12:35 PM	#9
Smoothdrive Foolish Genius Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 455 Rep Power: 0	What is a decent firewall anyway ? I'm using that old free version of ZA..is that any good ? PS Maybe one of you guys can enlighten me..how does kazaa or another P2P program effect your firewall security ? is it a leak to your entire hard drive ? __________________ GA-7VRXP, AMD2000+, 256MB PC-2700 DDR, Radeon 8500LE, 2x Maxtor 740 (40GB) stripe set, AGNeovo X-150.

Sep 17, 2002, 03:22 PM	#12
Smoothdrive Foolish Genius Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 455 Rep Power: 0	Thanks Uber, sorry for being off-tpoic..but you seem to know..i've been puzzling myself with this one.. using Proxy software to share an internet connection ..so the proxy software is allowed to go through the firewall both ways..won't that open up all internet traffic to the 2nd pc that is connected to the proxy ?? therefore the firewall will only protect 1 pc and not the network behind it ?? Or am i taking this logic too far ?? On Topic, I allways patch everything from MS..most patches are to close new leaks..my biggest concerns are kiddies using some hack tool and scr3wing up my system..real hackers won't bother hacking my home pc i guess..no challenge and nothing to gain..and virusses that scan for ports and abuse leaks to penetrate your system..hmm that sounded erotic..was it good for you too ? __________________ GA-7VRXP, AMD2000+, 256MB PC-2700 DDR, Radeon 8500LE, 2x Maxtor 740 (40GB) stripe set, AGNeovo X-150.

Sep 17, 2002, 03:39 PM	#14
UberLord A Legend in Underwear Join Date: May 2002 Location: Unknown Posts: 5,255 Rep Power: 0	Um - this is the flame warzone. If anyone wants to chat about firewalls can they start a thread in the appropriate forum? __________________ Gentoo Linux - Developer (baselayout) Read my blog "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Roberts

Sep 17, 2002, 03:55 PM	#15
Smoothdrive Foolish Genius Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 455 Rep Power: 0	Sorry..i'll take it elsewhere ..damn now i have to figure out where the firewall topic is..hey hey 17.00 time to go home YEAH STUPID MS AND THEIR STUPID UPDATES WHY DON"T THEY FINISH SOMETHING BEFORE PUTTING IT ON THE MARKET THOSE OVERPAID IDIOTS !! That better ? __________________ GA-7VRXP, AMD2000+, 256MB PC-2700 DDR, Radeon 8500LE, 2x Maxtor 740 (40GB) stripe set, AGNeovo X-150.

Sep 16, 2002, 05:40 AM	#1
Ryoko American Soldier Join Date: May 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA Posts: 1,725 Rep Power: 0	microsoft and their "updates" i hate microsoft, but you already knew that. i hate microsoft even more when they release "updates" and "upgrades" that really do nothing but decrease speed and stability. on this, my home computer, i have never updated any windows component. i am running as bare of win98se as you can get. at work, we run win98se, only with all the updates installed. today i have just noticed the first error my computer has had since i ran 12.10 drivers with my gf3. after browsing all day (and apparently receiving more than 100 megs on a 56k), internet explorer gpf'ed. great, i thought, now i'm going to lose everything i've been doing all day. nope. i.e. said 1 window had encountered an error and will be closed. at work, if that were to happen, i.e. upchucks and the computer hard locks. here, all it did was close the popup with the error, and everything else is completely stable. not even xp can boast that, as it restarts i.e., and closes all its windows. i love win98se. be sure to add your bad experiences with updates or tell me i'm a dumbass below flame away!

Sep 16, 2002, 08:34 AM	#2
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	WIN 98 ! ??? OMFG man, Id rather run Palm OS on my 2100XP, at least it can handle memory efficiently! (good enough?)

Sep 17, 2002, 07:05 AM	#7
nForcer Twice the fun! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,404 Rep Power: 0	I agree MS has problems with all thier updates for this, updates for that. But look at ALL the software they make. I'm suprised they can even keep up with demand, let alone have the time and effort to find ALL the possible exploits and leaks for thier software. I guess you have to see it from a programmers standpoint inorder to see how much of a challange that really is. No, I'm not a programmer (unless you count HTML) but I do know people who work inside Microsoft who are in my family. They say its "because they (MS) are so sucessful that other companies/consumers feel less and less secure and feel they need to 'get one back for the average man''. Turns out they only get thier fun for a few days, a week at most and its fixed." To those people I say 'get a life'.