Bush

Borealis · Sep 1, 2004, 09:20 AM

Quote:

i COULD vote for ralph nader but that would be a waste of a vote.

A vote for nader is really a vote for bush in disguise. I knew I wasn't the only one who thought he was a warmonger.

Iraq's a lost cause, give up now and save us some money....put it towards catching osama mama, taking out hamas etc. etc.

Osama or Arafat > Muqtada al Sadr, in terms of threat to the world or USA. Who gives a rats @ss about these radical iraqi clerics. Do you really think they would cause us a problem if we just up and left iraq? Let a country deal with it's own problems for a change. Let the iraqis re-built their own country. It's not like they're helpless, Saddam IS gone afterall.

ToshiroOC · Sep 1, 2004, 10:41 AM

BADNARIK FOR LIBERTY
BADNARIK FOR EXECUTIVE OFFICE

(or not)

GutterPunk · Sep 1, 2004, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borealis

Iraq's a lost cause, give up now and save us some money....put it towards catching osama mama, taking out hamas etc. etc.

Osama or Arafat > Muqtada al Sadr, in terms of threat to the world or USA. Who gives a rats @ss about these radical iraqi clerics. Do you really think they would cause us a problem if we just up and left iraq? Let a country deal with it's own problems for a change. Let the iraqis re-built their own country. It's not like they're helpless, Saddam IS gone afterall.

Yeah you think Iraq could rebuild the country, technically right now they are in a state of anarchy. We have to teach them something different as they have lived under a dictator for so long. What do they know other than to fear and be bossed around. No way can they rebuild there country and set up a regular gov't and have peace. Not gonna happen.

GutterPunk · Sep 1, 2004, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronnn

Being from Canada, I think Bush is driving America to ruin with his war mongering and getting mad at the rest of us who refuse to go along for the ride. I know Canadians are simpletons that know no better but somehow we do have to share this continent. So I would hope that whoever leads America will rejoin the UN and take an active part, because isolation and hatred will kill your eccononmy. The funny thing is most Canadians liked Bill Clinton who probably did most of the same stuff, but did it with style.

Would they want us if we didnt give them most of the money that funded the UN?

Dom · Sep 1, 2004, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GutterPunk

Yeah you think Iraq could rebuild the country, technically right now they are in a state of anarchy. We have to teach them something different as they have lived under a dictator for so long. What do they know other than to fear and be bossed around. No way can they rebuild there country and set up a regular gov't and have peace. Not gonna happen.

How would you know what the Iraqi people are capable of? The fact is that the Iraqi people have not been given a chance to run their own country in a long while. Their land has been under occupation and dictatorship for many years and now it is back under occupation. Seemingly the US Government and US troops are incapable of even running the country.

Tiger M · Sep 1, 2004, 07:06 PM

You folks are missing the main problem: there isn't an Iraqi people as a unified nation. Iraq consists of many different tribes and clans which have different interests and can not be unified for the next 20 years or so, not untill new generations with new ways of thinking are born.

What kept all of them together was the dictatorship of Saddam. They weren't a nation before it, they won't be after it...

Borealis · Sep 1, 2004, 07:23 PM

All the more reason for us to walk away then. Let them figure it out, they've got brains of their own. If they can't at least use them to accomplish a somewhat similar goal in terms of their own country. Then thats their fault.

Tiger M · Sep 1, 2004, 07:27 PM

oh yeah? you did the shit and now you're leaving? good, wreck the world and then left it fix itself... that's the american way I guess.

But this just doesn't happen in politics...

GutterPunk · Sep 1, 2004, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

How would you know what the Iraqi people are capable of? The fact is that the Iraqi people have not been given a chance to run their own country in a long while. Their land has been under occupation and dictatorship for many years and now it is back under occupation. Seemingly the US Government and US troops are incapable of even running the country.

I had a friend in iraq, when he was telling me about it... he said they didnt know what to do with the freedom. They were still scared to walk out of the doors, but slowly they came through with the help and support of soldiers, they were able to go out and trade things with eachother at the market, they slowly adapted to freedom.

It is going to take awhile for them to come to, in the meanwhile someone has to keep them from chaos and keep them on the right track. What else do they know. thats the thing, they are so used to dictatorship they dont know anything else. what can they do? It is just going to take time to get a complete understanding and trust imo

GutterPunk · Sep 1, 2004, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiger M

oh yeah? you did the shit and now you're leaving? good, wreck the world and then left it fix itself... that's the american way I guess.

But this just doesn't happen in politics...

Whats that supposed to mean, wreck the world and walk away. whatever dude, we fixed a share of nations after ww2/1. There are many countries in debt with us still because of rebuilding wrecked countries.

we are there to fix what we wrecked.... i dont believe in not finishing something we started, especially tot his extremety. what held the country together is gone something needs to replace it

Dom · Sep 1, 2004, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GutterPunk

I had a friend in iraq, when he was telling me about it... he said they didnt know what to do with the freedom. They were still scared to walk out of the doors, but slowly they came through with the help and support of soldiers, they were able to go out and trade things with eachother at the market, they slowly adapted to freedom.

It is going to take awhile for them to come to, in the meanwhile someone has to keep them from chaos and keep them on the right track. What else do they know. thats the thing, they are so used to dictatorship they dont know anything else. what can they do? It is just going to take time to get a complete understanding and trust imo

With all do respect to you and the friend you had in Iraq, he or she's opinion doesn't reflects that of all Iraqis.

There are 'insurgents' kidnapping and killing civilians that have connections with America. This violence is supposedly caused by US occupation, perhaps if the US left the violence would cease.

GutterPunk · Sep 1, 2004, 08:26 PM

why leave something unfinished like that... that dont say much about us... especially on this anti terror thing

Tiger M · Sep 1, 2004, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Whats that supposed to mean, wreck the world and walk away. whatever dude, we fixed a share of nations after ww2/1. There are many countries in debt with us still because of rebuilding wrecked countries.

we are there to fix what we wrecked.... i dont believe in not finishing something we started, especially tot his extremety. what held the country together is gone something needs to replace it

Oh please! Did you "fix" Serbia and the Balkan region? I don't think so. The only thing you do is move bases and soldiers to Southeastern Europe as a compensation. That will only bring the heat of terrorism to these not well protected parts of the continent. What compensation is that?

The only reason my country is involved in the Iraq coalition is because of these bases, which are actually unwanted by the people. And that wouldn't have happened if the foreigh minister of my country wasn't an arrogant jew who licks jewish US asses.

But anyway, you didn't fix anything. And most arrogant was that you didn't even pay for the incidentally wrecked houses by us bombs, bombs which got almost 400 kilometers away from their targets!

Dom · Sep 1, 2004, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GutterPunk

why leave something unfinished like that... that dont say much about us... especially on this anti terror thing

Well, there wasn't much 'terrorism' in Iraq before we got there.

Borealis · Sep 1, 2004, 09:32 PM

Quote:

The only reason my country is involved in the Iraq coalition is because of these bases, which are actually unwanted by the people. And that wouldn't have happened if the foreigh minister of my country wasn't an arrogant jew who licks jewish US asses.

But anyway, you didn't fix anything. And most arrogant was that you didn't even pay for the incidentally wrecked houses by us bombs, bombs which got almost 400 kilometers away from their targets

Quote:

oh yeah? you did the shit and now you're leaving? good, wreck the world and then left it fix itself... that's the american way I guess.

But this just doesn't happen in politics...

So you bitch and moan about the US having bases in these regions and from that I'll assume you don't want us there, yet you bitch because I'm saying we should leave these places and let them figure it out themselves. These are the kind of reasons why I'm against helping all these countries "in need". Defend your own damn countries for a change, instead of waiting for the US to bail you out. Even if we do help it always backfire and people get more pissed then they were to begin with. Not like any of these countries ever give us any help with anything, ok what maybe a couple hundred troops...big deal.

GutterPunk · Sep 1, 2004, 09:32 PM

not much terrorism but crimes against the people, people speaking out, taken out to a range being shot to death and the family was billed for the bullets.....

Dom · Sep 1, 2004, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GutterPunk

not much terrorism but crimes against the people, people speaking out, taken out to a range being shot to death and the family was billed for the bullets.....

What happens to people whom speak out now?

Falstaff · Sep 1, 2004, 11:25 PM

Poeple can express dissent, even express anger and frustration with the government, it is a right, not of free speech, but of assembly. there are laws of course, but you can be one voice or many, as long as you go through the proper channels, you can protest anything...

Dom · Sep 2, 2004, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallang_jeff

Poeple can express dissent, even express anger and frustration with the government, it is a right, not of free speech, but of assembly. there are laws of course, but you can be one voice or many, as long as you go through the proper channels, you can protest anything...

Yes, that's the rights we have in America.

I believe Iraqis had that right even when Saddam was in power but didn't dare use it. How do we know it's not the same way now?

GutterPunk · Sep 2, 2004, 12:24 AM

people who speak out now are less likely to be killed like before. Now with the new whatever cleric trying to control it may be different as i do not know anybody just coming back to tell about it. Look the people spoke out when it came to tearing down the statue were they killed?

It wasn't a right before as if they were found out, they were taken away killed and family billed for the bullets.

phongtruong12 · Sep 2, 2004, 12:25 AM

america can only guide iraq for so long. we can't delve all of our resources into iraq because this has to be a worldwide effort, not just us doing the dirty work. if russia could rebuild their economy after the collapse of the USSR, i'm sure iraq could do the same thing. all the other countries are hating on the u.s. when they're not doing shit to help out, but just sitting back and criticizing every little action. i didnt agree with the fact that we went to war with iraq, but now everybody's gotta chip in.

Dom · Sep 2, 2004, 12:47 AM

In my opinion those whom speak out now are considered radicals, or extremist.

Nacht · Sep 2, 2004, 01:55 AM

because the iraqis are protesting now. they're marching for saddam to get the death sentence.

ronnn · Sep 2, 2004, 03:47 AM

Strange way to "help". Several billion dollars a month in bombs. Mainly helping bush's friends in the bomb making industry.

G@MeBoY · Sep 2, 2004, 05:59 AM

even more, it "helps" countries he drops 'em on. Not to mention "dumping" of deplated uranium (whics probably makes even more money) and "old" and forbidden weapons like "carpet bombs" which feel on my city....

Brian1f1 · Sep 15, 2004, 05:04 AM

Islamic Terrorist must be stopped. George Bush is trying to make a new beacon for the Muslim world to model itself after. Failure is not an option, and President Bush was right by invading. Those of you who are liberal and pacifist might do well to remember 9/11 which happend only three short years ago. Perhaps look into the news of the past few weeks. These Muslim monster's who raped little girls, shot kids, starved children. These incredable bastards forced children to drink their own urine and eat roses that they had brought for their teachers for the first day of school. They shot all of the men, which where the childrens fathers in the face infront of the kids... Islam is in a state of radical sickness and I for one, am incredably proud to have a President with a grand enough vision and the balls to begin changing things. How easily could those have been your kids? you? It can come here. It did 3 short years... Kerry would wait until Recess was interupted here before he might begin to think of protecting us... and only if it showed well in the polls.

Brian1f1 · Sep 15, 2004, 05:08 AM

and for the information on this board, Saddam did infact fund terror. He paid Homicide bombers to explode in the streets of Isreal ten thousand each. Also enough nerve toxin in Iraq was found to kill one hundred thousand people. It may have only been contained in two shells but it is ultra potent. Our liberal media only emphasizes things that suits it.

identity · Sep 15, 2004, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian1f1

Islamic Terrorist must be stopped. George Bush is trying to make a new beacon for the Muslim world to model itself after. Failure is not an option, and President Bush was right by invading. Those of you who are liberal and pacifist might do well to remember 9/11 which happend only three short years ago. Perhaps look into the news of the past few weeks. These Muslim monster's who raped little girls, shot kids, starved children. These incredable bastards forced children to drink their own urine and eat roses that they had brought for their teachers for the first day of school. They shot all of the men, which where the childrens fathers in the face infront of the kids... Islam is in a state of radical sickness and I for one, am incredably proud to have a President with a grand enough vision and the balls to begin changing things. How easily could those have been your kids? you? It can come here. It did 3 short years... Kerry would wait until Recess was interupted here before he might begin to think of protecting us... and only if it showed well in the polls.

A new beacon? What right does Bush have to tell the Muslim world what to do? An American president is just that, the American president. You think simply because America is the world’s super power that it has the right to dictate what other nations do? It is exactly that kind of absolutistic/imperialistic way of thinking that is so wrong with democracy. You seem to see the Muslim nation as a group of lesser beings that you should teach the right way because Christianity is so great.

You people and your 9/11 references... You are so proud of your president and you think that what he is doing is so right. Have you even looked into the event in which you are referencing? Are you so ignorant and blind that you deny the obvious and documented connection between the Bush family and the bin Laden family? Did you not read the numerous reports of Bush taking the FBI/CIA off of al Quaeda's trail? Did you not read about the numerous inconsistencies and lies that Bush Administration fed the public? Their utter complacency, or should I say unwillingness to do anything about al Quaeda, their denial of prior knowledge and later admittance of it. How many lies will you believe?

You say failure is not an option. What the fuck happened on 9/11? What happened in Iraq? Two failures of your government. Do you really think it'll be different this time around?

America is filled with narcissists and you are one of them. You honestly sicken me with your ignorance.

ronnn · Sep 15, 2004, 07:44 AM

America has killed many innocent people in times of "war". Now if this is a war than collateral damage is possibly acceptable. But if war, cut the beacon of hope shit. Go on an anti Muslim crusade, just like the dark ages. Many many more Iraqis have died than Americans. Hussein is long gone, are you afraid of a fair election? I would be if I was George Bush, the place is in absolute chaos. A perfect breeding ground for discontented people that will be happy to take a few others with them. Americans remember 9/11 so strongly that they are willing to blow the shit out of a country that was not represented by the terrorists responsible. So how do you think Iraq will remember you?

Brian1f1 · Sep 15, 2004, 02:54 PM

Idenity you sicken me with your love affair with the enemy. Iraq is not a failure. 9/11 was. Although it was not Bush's fault. How many chances did Clinton have to rally the public and up the defense? Hmm let me count the ways... The first trade center bombing, the Cole, The bombing of our embassies... looks like 4 to 5 if you count Okalahoma. There is no link what so ever to Bush and Bin Ladin, Only a few crazy followers of Moore would believe that and his movies are based on outright lies and streches. You are incredably ignorant to believe that... Far left desperate reteric...

Sep 1, 2004, 10:41 AM	#92
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	BADNARIK FOR LIBERTY BADNARIK FOR EXECUTIVE OFFICE (or not) __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Sep 1, 2004, 07:06 PM	#96
Tiger M kX user Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 851 Rep Power: 0	You folks are missing the main problem: there isn't an Iraqi people as a unified nation. Iraq consists of many different tribes and clans which have different interests and can not be unified for the next 20 years or so, not untill new generations with new ways of thinking are born. What kept all of them together was the dictatorship of Saddam. They weren't a nation before it, they won't be after it... __________________ Miss you, Steve...

Sep 1, 2004, 07:27 PM	#98
Tiger M kX user Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 851 Rep Power: 0	oh yeah? you did the shit and now you're leaving? good, wreck the world and then left it fix itself... that's the american way I guess. But this just doesn't happen in politics... __________________ Miss you, Steve...

Sep 1, 2004, 08:26 PM	#102
GutterPunk I = Greatest Dood Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 5,949 Rep Power: 70	why leave something unfinished like that... that dont say much about us... especially on this anti terror thing __________________ Rock On \m/ Thank you Mousey for the Sig! --------------- Intel Core2Duo E6660 (3.4GHZ) ~ Tuniq Tower 120 ~ Enermax Galaxy 1000W ~ Corsair Dominator @ 1090MHZ 5-5-5-15 (OCZ XTC Modded Cooler)~ EVGA 8800GTX W/ HR-03 Plus 120MM ~ Asus DVD-RW LiteScribe ~ LG DVD-RW ~ Corsair Voyager 2GB ReadyBoost Drive ~ Vantec Nexus Fan Controller ~ ThermalTake Armor 25CM fan ~ Personal Finance Blog: Dent Your Debt

Sep 1, 2004, 09:32 PM	#106
GutterPunk I = Greatest Dood Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 5,949 Rep Power: 70	not much terrorism but crimes against the people, people speaking out, taken out to a range being shot to death and the family was billed for the bullets..... __________________ Rock On \m/ Thank you Mousey for the Sig! --------------- Intel Core2Duo E6660 (3.4GHZ) ~ Tuniq Tower 120 ~ Enermax Galaxy 1000W ~ Corsair Dominator @ 1090MHZ 5-5-5-15 (OCZ XTC Modded Cooler)~ EVGA 8800GTX W/ HR-03 Plus 120MM ~ Asus DVD-RW LiteScribe ~ LG DVD-RW ~ Corsair Voyager 2GB ReadyBoost Drive ~ Vantec Nexus Fan Controller ~ ThermalTake Armor 25CM fan ~ Personal Finance Blog: Dent Your Debt

Sep 1, 2004, 07:23 PM	#97
Borealis DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 143 Rep Power: 0	All the more reason for us to walk away then. Let them figure it out, they've got brains of their own. If they can't at least use them to accomplish a somewhat similar goal in terms of their own country. Then thats their fault.

Sep 1, 2004, 11:25 PM	#108
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,047 Rep Power: 206	Poeple can express dissent, even express anger and frustration with the government, it is a right, not of free speech, but of assembly. there are laws of course, but you can be one voice or many, as long as you go through the proper channels, you can protest anything... __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Sep 2, 2004, 12:24 AM	#110
GutterPunk I = Greatest Dood Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 5,949 Rep Power: 70	people who speak out now are less likely to be killed like before. Now with the new whatever cleric trying to control it may be different as i do not know anybody just coming back to tell about it. Look the people spoke out when it came to tearing down the statue were they killed? It wasn't a right before as if they were found out, they were taken away killed and family billed for the bullets. __________________ Rock On \m/ Thank you Mousey for the Sig! --------------- Intel Core2Duo E6660 (3.4GHZ) ~ Tuniq Tower 120 ~ Enermax Galaxy 1000W ~ Corsair Dominator @ 1090MHZ 5-5-5-15 (OCZ XTC Modded Cooler)~ EVGA 8800GTX W/ HR-03 Plus 120MM ~ Asus DVD-RW LiteScribe ~ LG DVD-RW ~ Corsair Voyager 2GB ReadyBoost Drive ~ Vantec Nexus Fan Controller ~ ThermalTake Armor 25CM fan ~ Personal Finance Blog: Dent Your Debt

Sep 2, 2004, 12:25 AM	#111
phongtruong12 DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 264 Rep Power: 0	america can only guide iraq for so long. we can't delve all of our resources into iraq because this has to be a worldwide effort, not just us doing the dirty work. if russia could rebuild their economy after the collapse of the USSR, i'm sure iraq could do the same thing. all the other countries are hating on the u.s. when they're not doing shit to help out, but just sitting back and criticizing every little action. i didnt agree with the fact that we went to war with iraq, but now everybody's gotta chip in. __________________ Sony VAIO RX860 2.4 @2.6 Ghz, 533 @580 Mhz PQI 1 GB PC2700 80 GB Hard Drive 5400 RPM Thermaltake 480W PSU X800XL 256 MB VIVO Soundblaster Live! 5.1 Logitech X530 Speakers

Sep 2, 2004, 12:47 AM	#112
Dom DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 12,940 Rep Power: 0	In my opinion those whom speak out now are considered radicals, or extremist.

Sep 2, 2004, 01:55 AM	#113
Nacht ein Krieger Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Clemson Uni Posts: 3,127 Rep Power: 0	because the iraqis are protesting now. they're marching for saddam to get the death sentence.

Sep 2, 2004, 03:47 AM	#114
ronnn DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 617 Rep Power: 0	Strange way to "help". Several billion dollars a month in bombs. Mainly helping bush's friends in the bomb making industry.

Sep 2, 2004, 05:59 AM	#115
G@MeBoY makes your mouse tremmble! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Serbia,Livingroom Posts: 247 Rep Power: 0	even more, it "helps" countries he drops 'em on. Not to mention "dumping" of deplated uranium (whics probably makes even more money) and "old" and forbidden weapons like "carpet bombs" which feel on my city.... __________________ -= G@MeBoY =- ::Full color with 3DNOW! tech:: XP2000+ thoroughbred @ 10x230FSB - watter cooled by home made sistem - EpoX RDA3I - ASUS V9950SE/Td @470/820 - 2x256 DDR400 V-Data - !Live Player - 80GB Maxtor DiamondMax9+7200rpm - Tagan TG-380 black PSU - chieftek Matrix case - WinXP SP1

Sep 15, 2004, 05:04 AM	#116
Brian1f1 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 8 Rep Power: 0	Islamic Terrorist must be stopped. George Bush is trying to make a new beacon for the Muslim world to model itself after. Failure is not an option, and President Bush was right by invading. Those of you who are liberal and pacifist might do well to remember 9/11 which happend only three short years ago. Perhaps look into the news of the past few weeks. These Muslim monster's who raped little girls, shot kids, starved children. These incredable bastards forced children to drink their own urine and eat roses that they had brought for their teachers for the first day of school. They shot all of the men, which where the childrens fathers in the face infront of the kids... Islam is in a state of radical sickness and I for one, am incredably proud to have a President with a grand enough vision and the balls to begin changing things. How easily could those have been your kids? you? It can come here. It did 3 short years... Kerry would wait until Recess was interupted here before he might begin to think of protecting us... and only if it showed well in the polls.

Sep 15, 2004, 05:08 AM	#117
Brian1f1 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 8 Rep Power: 0	and for the information on this board, Saddam did infact fund terror. He paid Homicide bombers to explode in the streets of Isreal ten thousand each. Also enough nerve toxin in Iraq was found to kill one hundred thousand people. It may have only been contained in two shells but it is ultra potent. Our liberal media only emphasizes things that suits it.

Sep 15, 2004, 07:44 AM	#119
ronnn DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 617 Rep Power: 0	America has killed many innocent people in times of "war". Now if this is a war than collateral damage is possibly acceptable. But if war, cut the beacon of hope shit. Go on an anti Muslim crusade, just like the dark ages. Many many more Iraqis have died than Americans. Hussein is long gone, are you afraid of a fair election? I would be if I was George Bush, the place is in absolute chaos. A perfect breeding ground for discontented people that will be happy to take a few others with them. Americans remember 9/11 so strongly that they are willing to blow the shit out of a country that was not represented by the terrorists responsible. So how do you think Iraq will remember you?

Sep 15, 2004, 02:54 PM	#120
Brian1f1 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 8 Rep Power: 0	Idenity you sicken me with your love affair with the enemy. Iraq is not a failure. 9/11 was. Although it was not Bush's fault. How many chances did Clinton have to rally the public and up the defense? Hmm let me count the ways... The first trade center bombing, the Cole, The bombing of our embassies... looks like 4 to 5 if you count Okalahoma. There is no link what so ever to Bush and Bin Ladin, Only a few crazy followers of Moore would believe that and his movies are based on outright lies and streches. You are incredably ignorant to believe that... Far left desperate reteric...