Where are all the patriots ?

Stryder7 · Oct 11, 2004, 09:39 AM

I posted this in response to some BS I saw in another thread. I am bringing it to the top level of this forum, because it is REALLY important. Moderators, feel free to delete the other post if you want to.

I am in the military. Have been serving in the military for 18 years. I have been in the military in one way or another my entire life. I was born in a military hospital. Have moved all over the globe while my father served, had a 4 year break between his retirement and my enlistment.

I have 2 brothers in the service, 6 cousins serving, and my son was considering enlisting. I told him to wait. I am getting out just as soon as I can. More on that later.

I "heard" that the people back home supported this war in Iraq. I "heard" that the people back here supported the troops. There was a majority of people back here, that supported this war, say that they support the troops, but it looks as though it was nothing more than "TALK".

See, it is really simple from a soldiers perspective.

If you thought this country was in danger, a REAL patriot would defend this country. If you thought that this war really needed to be fought, a patriot would fight it.

And even more so, if you supported the troops, you would give them what they REALLY need. Some relief. Somebody to pick up a weapon, and relieve some of the men and women that have been standing a post now, for way too long.

But as it turns out, some of you that SAY you support this war, that you think this country was in danger and in need of defending, and that you support the troops, but are long on words and rhetoric, but way short on guts, patriotism, or beliefs.

Tell you what. I was going to try to be more tactical about this, but I am just going to say it flat out.

If you support this war, and this president, go down to a recruiting station tommorow, and enlist. If you are too old, or physically disabled, then try to persude your your sons, daughters, nephews and nieces. Convice your relatives that this is a war that needs to be fought, and that as patriots, they should fight it.

For all of those of you that run your mouths, but are too much of a coward to fight this war, I say you are cowards and traitors to your country. You dont deserve to call yourself an American.

I am getting out of the service as soon as I can. And I am telling my sons, and everybody else in my family or that I care about, that they should NOT serve. For one very simple reason. I will not EVER again stick my neck out for a nation of cowards. I will not put my butt on the line for a bunch of punks, that TALK bigtime $hit, and will not serve.

I could say a few things about our fearless leader, but will restrain myself for fear of what could happen to me for insubordination. But I will say this.

For all of the bitching a griping that was done about what a bad EXAMPLE Bill Clinton was for our nations youth, it pales by comparrison to some of the people that our kids have as role models today.

What a bunch of cowards. Oh, and BTW, I am by no means a lone horse as far as this opinion goes. A big chunk of my brothers and sisters in arms feel the same exact way. And you people love to talk about how Kerry is demoralizing the troops. It is a bunch of punk-a$$ed cowards back here in the states that has let us soldiers know just how much support we are getting from so called patriots here at home.

Go Cheney yourselves.

Now that moderators can delete this if they like, but it is said. But I guess that if they do, it will show how close I hit home with them too.

mkk · Oct 11, 2004, 12:16 PM

Might get moved to the flame section, but that was a pretty good rant really. You have some good points there, so I say feel free to post more. If this section of the forums need something, it's new people with their own takes.

thomasabarnes · Oct 11, 2004, 02:54 PM

I served for 8 years in the military. First in the Army, then, in the Marines. I was in Desert Shield/Desert Storm. I was one of the first to go over to Kuwait on day 1 of the ground war. I was a Marine, then. I was under just a little of mortor and artilery fire during that 1st 24 hrs of the ground war. And, I started to think of the war movies I saw. The sound of artilery cutting the air was not a whisle like I herd it in the movies, it was more like a screching cracking sound. I was so close to the enemy, I was under close arms fire as well.

Thinking about the Vietnam war made me start to pray that I would make it back safely. I was so close to the burning oil wells that I could touch 'em with my hand. I was in the field communications MOS in the war, and I had to put up equipment that worked off of triangulation so we could navigate through the war field. I saw dead Iraqis with limbs blown off as we moved around in the vehicles, but I was also on foot.

That being under fire just lasted for a bout 3 hours, but I was praying I'd make it back safely. I knew then, that war was really no joke, and that was nothing like Vietnam. Bush Sr. was president, then. Good thing he said we were gona do this quick and get it over with. And we did, but for some reason he didnt get Saddam, then. There was some talk that Special forces could have got him, though. But we didnt. All the bombing we did before the ground war started, hurt them bad. And those poor people Saddam made fight (Not his elite troops), meet us with joy as they surendered! They hadnt eaten for days! The bombing cut off much of their food supply, and any food they had left Saddam gathered for his elite troops. It was a sad sight.

Anyway, that's why I can relate to how the troops feel. And , I still dont approve of the current president having US troops going over so hastily. I know I volunteered for the military service, but no one wants to die for a hasty decision. This president could have went about this thing in a better way. And that's what Kerry has said all along. We all thought that maybe there were WMDs in Iraq, but even before we invaded, the UN was saying, let's let the inspectors continue over there. I feel this hesitant behavior of the UN was because they were showing concern and regard for all human life. But some Bush supporters here in the forums, just dont want to admit Bush was wrong in this decision. We should support the troops now that we're over there, but Bush doesnt need to be reelected because he may get us and more innocent people into additional life threatening situations. At least, that's what I think.

However, since we do need to fight the war on Terror, I wouldnt mind if Powell and Cheney was on Kerry's administration (if he is elected), cause we need some tough guys to be in this war on terror in the Presidential cabinet capacity. It seems there are a good number of Americans who want Bush to have another 4, although I dont, maybe that could be tolerated, if he will listen to what Powell has to say. Powell was a great Chairman Of The Joint Chiefs Of Staff, and Chenny has experience.

I read some of the comments made here by some in support of Bush, and I say to myself, how can they support his decision like that. Yet, I wont flame them outrageously, cause I take it some are young, and I believe that children are the future. I try to make comments to get them to maybe be more sympathetic, but I know at least one here seems to be unwavering in his support for everything that Bush does.

I served my time in the military, I cant go back in cause I'm pass the age limit. I try to tell my nephew that the military service is an honorable thing, and I urge him to join.

But in the end, everyone makes his/her own decisions. May God have mercy on us, and God bless America as He sees fit.

Sincerely, thomasabarnes

Dom · Oct 11, 2004, 07:33 PM

I have never supported this war, ever. That doesn't mean, however, that I don't support the troops, I do support the troops and respect what they do. I also understand the position they are in in not getting the tactical support they needed on the ground, not getting support from the people at home, and perhaps, even fighting in a war in which they themselves don't support.

I really don't think fighting in a war makes you a patriot. I mean, people have families to support, just because they may support it doesn't mean they should have to fight in it. Let's face it, does fighting in a war in another part of the world make you a patriot? No. Nowhere in the defination of "patriot" does it say: "One who gets paid to fight in a war."

We know Iraq didn't pose a threat to America. A patriot is someone who fights in a war to protect their country. How is fighting in Iraq protecting America? And again, patriots don't get paid for fighting for their country. The men and woman in Iraq are not necessarily patriots. They're soldiers, doing the job they're paid to do.

Alistair · Oct 11, 2004, 09:55 PM

Thanks for your service and that of your friends and family, we do appreciate it. I had enlisted in the Army straight out of high school, but a foot problem got me sent home 6 weeks into boot camp. If I felt my feet would be able to handle it, I'd be in line to reenlist instead of typing this. Many friends of mine are presently in the military. One is being activated in the USMC reserves to head to Iraw in January, while another is waiting to go to boot camp at the end of this month. The one just now enlisting just completed his assosciates degree in programming, but after talking with me and the USMC reservist has chosen to enlist rather than persue a career in his field. Yet another friend of mine was recently in Afghanistan with the 82nd Airborne and I believe that is where they redeployed him to yet again.

Anyways I have pretty much decided that if within 6 months I don't have a job in my field that I will begin talking to the local recruiters about ways to get a waiver for my foot problem. With some long months of work, it is possible for me to correct the problem without surgery, which would disqualify me from service.

digerati · Oct 11, 2004, 10:56 PM

I almost enlisted, but I found a different calling. I still have the contract in this house somewhere lol I have two friends in the army right now though.

Nacht · Oct 11, 2004, 11:12 PM

Somehow you seem to think that supporting and being proud of you country means that you must be in the military? You are very wrong about that.

amduser · Oct 11, 2004, 11:50 PM

just about every male member of my family has served in the military. i support this war and president bush. calling everyone a coward and unpatriotic for not serving is truly over the line. in hindsight, i wished i had served right out highschool like my uncle wanted me to. perhaps it would have given me a different perspective. i have several army friends and they feel kerry would pull the rug from underneath them. i have a uncle who was a green beret who cant stand kerry. my dad a air force captain cant stand him either.

i am too old to serve and my kids(both girls) are too young.

one final thought, do you want to win or just say the heck with it and pull out and see what happens?

vince3425 · Oct 14, 2004, 03:42 AM

I am currently in the Marine Corps. I fight for your right to say that trash about YOUR country. I don't do it because i know you and you're my friend, i do it because i swore my self to defend Corps and Country Under God. so if you have such a big problem with a Nation of Liars and cowards, get the F*CK out. go live in canada you whimp

GutterPunk · Oct 14, 2004, 03:53 AM

Hey man if yout ell everyone to join the military, those who support the troops but dont join. Whatever man that is a total cop out. Some people are unfit for the military, physically and mentally. You are willing to be out there on the field with someone who joined the military and was unfit, did not want to be there... only joined because he is a 'coward' if he did not. No way, he will not lay his life on the line for the country as he would hinder troops. People join the military with the all knowing risks of it, to fight for OUR COUNTRY.

Remember, HINDSIGHT IS 20:20... dont let things get outta control

Thank you all militar for serving US and OUR country, no matter our opinions, beliefs. IMO Our support does take affect on the morale of our troops.

Stryder7 · Oct 14, 2004, 04:51 AM

**** vince3425 spewed forth with

"I am currently in the Marine Corps. I fight for your right to say that trash about YOUR country. "

And proving that you either CANT read, or IGNORE the truth, I stated right off the bat, that I was a 18 year veteran. I fought in the 1st Gulf War, and have served in Iraq this time. But you didnt bother to read that part hey. So I have a right to express and opinion, a right I EARNED for myself.

"I don't do it because i know you and you're my friend, i do it because i swore my self to defend Corps and Country Under God. "

Actually you swore to "protect and defend the constitution of the united states, against enemies both foreign and domestic." Unless they changed the oath since I took it in 1986, or you havent really taken the oath and that is why you dont know what the oath is. It is real easy to CLAIM that you are in the Marines. But this is just one little piece if evidence that you are not in the service at all.

"so if you have such a big problem with a Nation of Liars and cowards, get the F*CK out. go live in canada you whimp"

I dont think I will. I am sure that your position politically, is dependant upon your position geograhically. Just in case your too stupid to understand that, I think that if we were face to face, you wouldnt be running your mouth.

I hold to my original post. If the cowards that support this war but refuse to fight it, were held accountable for their cowardice and unpatriotic rhetoric, then things would be different.

They are REAL BRAVE and patriotic, as long as it is someone else that is fighting, bleeding and dying.

I dont include those that DID NOT support this war, either out of principle or fear. After all, they did not support sending anyone to fight this war.

BUT, this war had around 71% support when it started. Let us say that 1/2 of those were so disabled that they could not serve. Let say that another half are married with children and unable to go. I do know that most of the people that I served with had spouses and kids, but if someone wants to use that as a cop out for not going, lets give it to them.

Even figuring into the mix, those 3 groups, the pacifist, the disabled, and the married with children, there should still be hundreds of thousands of people to enlist and serve. And I am speaking about those that WANTED to send troops to fight.

But we have people over 50 years old, being recalled. We have people whose enlistments are up, that cant get out. We have people that have already served in Iraq, that are there again. Why ?

Becasue too many people are making excuses.

One final thought. If all of those that say they support this war, and the troops, were to back up their bada$$ talk, maybe some of our boys and women could come home. But too many people that say this war needed to be fought, sit at home and do nothing to defend their country. "Bring Em On (as long as it is someone else doing the fighting)"

Yep, a country full of cowards and traitors. Usually, little right winged idiots, that support this president and say that this country is in danger. But when it comes to supporting the troops and defending their nation, nothing from them. Just a bunch of cheap talk.

Funny thing about it is. I just figured out something. I know why the right wingers dont want gays in the military.

Because every homo-sexual that is in the miltary, fighting for their country right now, is a BETTER AMERICAN, than all of these cowards and traitors back here. I include vince in that statement, because I dont think you are in the marines. I think that you are one of the people I talked about.

Not to mention that the women that are serving, are showing up all of these "He Man" macho types. As Arnold would say, those of you that will send someone else to fight for you, are a bunch of "Girly Men"

vince3425 · Oct 14, 2004, 05:42 AM

You have every right under the constitution to say what you please when you please. i will fight to the death for you to do that. But don't ever FUCKING challenge me on being in the Corps. I am glad you served, and I thank you. you obviously don't know about the Marine Corps. God Country and Corps, that is my duty, if you want my general orders i'll be glad to "spew" them forth to you. now if you are done trying to insult me on where i was born and raised and my politics, i'll get back to what i was saying. i don't give a shit what you think. You may have served, or you may not have, i don't care. But i will reiterate what i said before, DO NOT under any circumstances, challenge me on being a United States Marine. Unless you'd like to meet and we can "discuss" it further...

GutterPunk · Oct 14, 2004, 05:52 AM

I can vouge for Vince being in the Corps

calling a Marine, a fellow serviceman a coward is very insulting especially judging him if he is in them or not.

Dom · Oct 14, 2004, 06:18 AM

Moved to the Flame Warzone section.

ToshiroOC · Oct 14, 2004, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vince3425

I am currently in the Marine Corps. I fight for your right to say that trash about YOUR country. I don't do it because i know you and you're my friend, i do it because i swore my self to defend Corps and Country Under God. so if you have such a big problem with a Nation of Liars and cowards, get the F*CK out. go live in canada you whimp

This would be unacceptable in the political debate forum. As Dom has moved this thread, it isn't an issue, but please refrain from insulting other members, it just degrades the quality of debate.

GutterPunk · Oct 14, 2004, 06:23 AM

Hey fucker, come on you narrow minded bastard. You think everyone who supports troops should join the military. That leaves no people to fill the lack of jobs, more people for the gov't to pay, and only the disabled people, families with children, whoever the fuck else drawing money from the government for welfare, disablity, social security. Come on mane dont look at everyone as being a coward or a turncoat just because they have other things to pursue in their lives. Damn you have about the absolute worst argument in the fucking world. Look past your ignorance and see the differences it would make. Sorry dude no go

EDIT: The other day in class, in a presentation given by a military member he said on average it costs about $3,000,000 to train about 10-15 people (this being reservists) with every1 who supports the fucking military joined think of the financial burden lol

GutterPunk · Oct 14, 2004, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToshiroOC

This would be unacceptable in the political debate forum. As Dom has moved this thread, it isn't an issue, but please refrain from insulting other members, it just degrades the quality of debate.

Dont you think that should go both ways as Stryder did insult Vince on a personal level

Stryder7 · Oct 14, 2004, 06:37 AM

To vince3425,

What a whining crying punk you are. You ignored that I served, and suggested I go to Canada. You attacked my right to say what I thought about those that "REFUSE" to serve, and then you have the nerve to say that you will fight for my rights. I dont need you to fight my fights. You chose to ignore my service, to justify your political point. And when I challenged you on it, you whine and cry, that you are defending my rights. To that I say F*** you, your momma, and your entire family. (Insult absolutely intended).

Then when I reply to your BS attack, you whine and cry. You say that you thank me for my service and then you continue with your VERBAL assault. Like I said, your position, depends on your position.

General orders ? What, did you find them posted somewhere on the internet, kiddie? Is that what you think is proof that you are in the marines, by posting your general orders?

And my repsonse to you punking yourself was intended as a challenge. I would be glad to "Discuss" this face to face anytime, anywhere, with EXTREME PREJUDICE.

PS, if you are an example of what the Marine Corps is producing now adays, this country is in REAL danger. Hoo "Friggin" Rah.

**GutterPunk

You may have revealed more than you wanted to. First you say, "I can vouge for Vince being in the Corps"

The word is "vouch" anyway.

Then you say " if he is in them or not."

Well what is it ? He is in them, or not ?

GutterPunk · Oct 14, 2004, 06:40 AM

Hey fuckhead you took it outta context

calling a Marine, a fellow serviceman a coward is very insulting especially judging him if he is in them or not.

That was a retarded fucking question, as i said he was in the marines... screw the spelling as i dont fucking care, and I dont care that you used a dictionary to look it up.

Go eat a dick, I think they'd like you better in France

Stryder7 · Oct 14, 2004, 06:47 AM

Here is a little excerpt from a PM to me from vince.

"but i don't go around doubting some ones service. "

You did exactly that, so I guess that makes you a confirmed liar.

And as far as your "threat" contained here, "you ever had a pissed off Marine hunting you? "

You dont have to hunt, bitch. Just tell me where you are. I am on leave and know how to get a flight to San Diego on MAC.

BTW, dont worry about my rank when you see me, I will strip my sleeves.

Stryder7 · Oct 14, 2004, 06:49 AM

And I guess that you dont really support the troops.

And like I said earlier, I guess that the homos in the miltary are more of a man and an American than you are. You or your a$$hole buddy vince.

GutterPunk · Oct 14, 2004, 06:53 AM

What you think homos join the military to be tough... shit why would a fag pass up the chance to shower w/ 50 other guys.... (is that why you joined?)

Saying that compared to my chance to join a group to shower w/ 50 different women

____________

"but i don't go around doubting some ones service. "

You did exactly that, so I guess that makes you a confirmed liar.

Uhhh how did that make him a liar, didnt he thank you for your service fucktard?

Stryder7 · Oct 14, 2004, 06:56 AM

I am not gay, but I do know that there are gays in the military, that are serving in a combat zone, when you wont.

Coward !

Here you are such a HE man, and you are being shown up by women and homos.

What a punk you are, but I bet you come from a long line of punks huh?

Your daddy is a right winged punk aint he?

Stryder7 · Oct 14, 2004, 06:59 AM

Say Gutten Punk, (definition of punk, someone that likes it in the ass)

What was your pathetic reason why you wont fight this war ?

You support this war, but you wont fight it? What a chickenshit you are !

And why is it that you and vince call yourselves punks ? Maybe you are doing each other ?

It sure looks that way.

GutterPunk · Oct 14, 2004, 07:00 AM

WTF dont bring my family in this you stupid fuckhead.

How am I being shown up by women and homos. Just because I have another plan for myself in life? I do not find myself in the military. I pay taxes, taxes go towards the gov't the gov't pays he military. Now if we all skipped our taxes and didnt pay shit, You'd never see a paycheck. So fuck off man your plan is shit and you know it, and all you have to say is that i am a coward.

vince3425 · Oct 14, 2004, 07:01 AM

You have to go insult my family. Great. I just don't understand why you had to bring in my mother. Normally being the hot headed Marine, which you don't believe i am, i would have told you that i was going to kill you your family and your dog, maybe even tim, your cocksucking secretary. but since i have a level head about me,i won't sink to your level. if i could go to iraq, i would be there in a second. Now if you are done insulting my family, i'll let you and your family rest easy tonight knowing that i'm not out to hurt you.

Stryder7 · Oct 14, 2004, 07:03 AM

Again, willing to send others to fight a war you say must be fought,

You would probably call the cops and wait for them, if your momma or little sister was being raped .

Why should you fight, when there are others that are out there to fight for you?

Stryder7 · Oct 14, 2004, 07:07 AM

***
vince3425

You are the one that started making threats, and KNOWING what a panty wasted coward you are, I figured that talking about your family might bring you out of cover to face me.

But you have proven that you are one of the chickenshit cowards I originally posted about.

You are the typical right winged republican coward I spoke of.

What will entice you to fight for anything?

Or will you fight for anything?

I doubt it.

I suggest that if you arent willing to fight, then dont send others to do it.

GutterPunk · Oct 14, 2004, 07:07 AM

Shut the fuck up dude, that is as cheap as it gets

Raping my family what the fuck kind of sick mind do you have. You little cock sucking bitch

First thing I would be doing would be beating the living shit out of whoever would be guilty. Id prolly take it a step further, after you are in the hospital show up and fuck the shit out of your mom sister, her daughter who the fuck cares, and you cant do a thing about it since i put you in the ICU for trying to rape my family. Im suprised you wouldnt go after my dad first

And 9 months later you are stuck with a little reminder of me, and what you got yourself into

Stryder7 · Oct 14, 2004, 07:12 AM

You talk big shit Gutter Trash, just like this Iraqi war.

But like I said, when it comes down to "Standing Up" for what you say you believe in, your way short on guts.

See, I know why you dont serve.

You are disabled. A pigmentation disorder.

That yellow streak running down your back.

Oct 11, 2004, 09:39 AM	#1
Stryder7 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18 Rep Power: 0	Where are all the patriots ? I posted this in response to some BS I saw in another thread. I am bringing it to the top level of this forum, because it is REALLY important. Moderators, feel free to delete the other post if you want to. I am in the military. Have been serving in the military for 18 years. I have been in the military in one way or another my entire life. I was born in a military hospital. Have moved all over the globe while my father served, had a 4 year break between his retirement and my enlistment. I have 2 brothers in the service, 6 cousins serving, and my son was considering enlisting. I told him to wait. I am getting out just as soon as I can. More on that later. I "heard" that the people back home supported this war in Iraq. I "heard" that the people back here supported the troops. There was a majority of people back here, that supported this war, say that they support the troops, but it looks as though it was nothing more than "TALK". See, it is really simple from a soldiers perspective. If you thought this country was in danger, a REAL patriot would defend this country. If you thought that this war really needed to be fought, a patriot would fight it. And even more so, if you supported the troops, you would give them what they REALLY need. Some relief. Somebody to pick up a weapon, and relieve some of the men and women that have been standing a post now, for way too long. But as it turns out, some of you that SAY you support this war, that you think this country was in danger and in need of defending, and that you support the troops, but are long on words and rhetoric, but way short on guts, patriotism, or beliefs. Tell you what. I was going to try to be more tactical about this, but I am just going to say it flat out. If you support this war, and this president, go down to a recruiting station tommorow, and enlist. If you are too old, or physically disabled, then try to persude your your sons, daughters, nephews and nieces. Convice your relatives that this is a war that needs to be fought, and that as patriots, they should fight it. For all of those of you that run your mouths, but are too much of a coward to fight this war, I say you are cowards and traitors to your country. You dont deserve to call yourself an American. I am getting out of the service as soon as I can. And I am telling my sons, and everybody else in my family or that I care about, that they should NOT serve. For one very simple reason. I will not EVER again stick my neck out for a nation of cowards. I will not put my butt on the line for a bunch of punks, that TALK bigtime $hit, and will not serve. I could say a few things about our fearless leader, but will restrain myself for fear of what could happen to me for insubordination. But I will say this. For all of the bitching a griping that was done about what a bad EXAMPLE Bill Clinton was for our nations youth, it pales by comparrison to some of the people that our kids have as role models today. What a bunch of cowards. Oh, and BTW, I am by no means a lone horse as far as this opinion goes. A big chunk of my brothers and sisters in arms feel the same exact way. And you people love to talk about how Kerry is demoralizing the troops. It is a bunch of punk-a$$ed cowards back here in the states that has let us soldiers know just how much support we are getting from so called patriots here at home. Go Cheney yourselves. Now that moderators can delete this if they like, but it is said. But I guess that if they do, it will show how close I hit home with them too.

Oct 11, 2004, 02:54 PM	#3
thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,375 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	I served for 8 years in the military. First in the Army, then, in the Marines. I was in Desert Shield/Desert Storm. I was one of the first to go over to Kuwait on day 1 of the ground war. I was a Marine, then. I was under just a little of mortor and artilery fire during that 1st 24 hrs of the ground war. And, I started to think of the war movies I saw. The sound of artilery cutting the air was not a whisle like I herd it in the movies, it was more like a screching cracking sound. I was so close to the enemy, I was under close arms fire as well. Thinking about the Vietnam war made me start to pray that I would make it back safely. I was so close to the burning oil wells that I could touch 'em with my hand. I was in the field communications MOS in the war, and I had to put up equipment that worked off of triangulation so we could navigate through the war field. I saw dead Iraqis with limbs blown off as we moved around in the vehicles, but I was also on foot. That being under fire just lasted for a bout 3 hours, but I was praying I'd make it back safely. I knew then, that war was really no joke, and that was nothing like Vietnam. Bush Sr. was president, then. Good thing he said we were gona do this quick and get it over with. And we did, but for some reason he didnt get Saddam, then. There was some talk that Special forces could have got him, though. But we didnt. All the bombing we did before the ground war started, hurt them bad. And those poor people Saddam made fight (Not his elite troops), meet us with joy as they surendered! They hadnt eaten for days! The bombing cut off much of their food supply, and any food they had left Saddam gathered for his elite troops. It was a sad sight. Anyway, that's why I can relate to how the troops feel. And , I still dont approve of the current president having US troops going over so hastily. I know I volunteered for the military service, but no one wants to die for a hasty decision. This president could have went about this thing in a better way. And that's what Kerry has said all along. We all thought that maybe there were WMDs in Iraq, but even before we invaded, the UN was saying, let's let the inspectors continue over there. I feel this hesitant behavior of the UN was because they were showing concern and regard for all human life. But some Bush supporters here in the forums, just dont want to admit Bush was wrong in this decision. We should support the troops now that we're over there, but Bush doesnt need to be reelected because he may get us and more innocent people into additional life threatening situations. At least, that's what I think. However, since we do need to fight the war on Terror, I wouldnt mind if Powell and Cheney was on Kerry's administration (if he is elected), cause we need some tough guys to be in this war on terror in the Presidential cabinet capacity. It seems there are a good number of Americans who want Bush to have another 4, although I dont, maybe that could be tolerated, if he will listen to what Powell has to say. Powell was a great Chairman Of The Joint Chiefs Of Staff, and Chenny has experience. I read some of the comments made here by some in support of Bush, and I say to myself, how can they support his decision like that. Yet, I wont flame them outrageously, cause I take it some are young, and I believe that children are the future. I try to make comments to get them to maybe be more sympathetic, but I know at least one here seems to be unwavering in his support for everything that Bush does. I served my time in the military, I cant go back in cause I'm pass the age limit. I try to tell my nephew that the military service is an honorable thing, and I urge him to join. But in the end, everyone makes his/her own decisions. May God have mercy on us, and God bless America as He sees fit. Sincerely, thomasabarnes __________________ May a song always touch you in a positive way. SONAR X1D Expanded, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB x2 HDD 7200 rpm My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs Last edited by thomasabarnes; Oct 11, 2004 at 03:03 PM.

Oct 11, 2004, 09:55 PM	#5
Alistair Spoos Join Date: May 2002 Location: State College, PA, USA Posts: 435 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Thanks for your service and that of your friends and family, we do appreciate it. I had enlisted in the Army straight out of high school, but a foot problem got me sent home 6 weeks into boot camp. If I felt my feet would be able to handle it, I'd be in line to reenlist instead of typing this. Many friends of mine are presently in the military. One is being activated in the USMC reserves to head to Iraw in January, while another is waiting to go to boot camp at the end of this month. The one just now enlisting just completed his assosciates degree in programming, but after talking with me and the USMC reservist has chosen to enlist rather than persue a career in his field. Yet another friend of mine was recently in Afghanistan with the 82nd Airborne and I believe that is where they redeployed him to yet again. Anyways I have pretty much decided that if within 6 months I don't have a job in my field that I will begin talking to the local recruiters about ways to get a waiver for my foot problem. With some long months of work, it is possible for me to correct the problem without surgery, which would disqualify me from service. __________________ - Alistair

Oct 14, 2004, 03:42 AM	#9
vince3425 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Nebraska Posts: 150 Rep Power: 0	I am currently in the Marine Corps. I fight for your right to say that trash about YOUR country. I don't do it because i know you and you're my friend, i do it because i swore my self to defend Corps and Country Under God. so if you have such a big problem with a Nation of Liars and cowards, get the F*CK out. go live in canada you whimp __________________ When it Absolutely, Positivly has to be destroyed over night. USMC LCpl Scott

Oct 14, 2004, 03:53 AM	#10
GutterPunk I = Greatest Dood Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 5,949 Rep Power: 71	Hey man if yout ell everyone to join the military, those who support the troops but dont join. Whatever man that is a total cop out. Some people are unfit for the military, physically and mentally. You are willing to be out there on the field with someone who joined the military and was unfit, did not want to be there... only joined because he is a 'coward' if he did not. No way, he will not lay his life on the line for the country as he would hinder troops. People join the military with the all knowing risks of it, to fight for OUR COUNTRY. Remember, HINDSIGHT IS 20:20... dont let things get outta control Thank you all militar for serving US and OUR country, no matter our opinions, beliefs. IMO Our support does take affect on the morale of our troops. __________________ Rock On \m/ Thank you Mousey for the Sig! --------------- Intel Core2Duo E6660 (3.4GHZ) ~ Tuniq Tower 120 ~ Enermax Galaxy 1000W ~ Corsair Dominator @ 1090MHZ 5-5-5-15 (OCZ XTC Modded Cooler)~ EVGA 8800GTX W/ HR-03 Plus 120MM ~ Asus DVD-RW LiteScribe ~ LG DVD-RW ~ Corsair Voyager 2GB ReadyBoost Drive ~ Vantec Nexus Fan Controller ~ ThermalTake Armor 25CM fan ~ Personal Finance Blog: Dent Your Debt

Oct 11, 2004, 12:16 PM	#2
mkk Cthulhu/Dagon 2012 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gefle, Sweden Posts: 4,490 Rep Power: 132 System Specs	Might get moved to the flame section, but that was a pretty good rant really. You have some good points there, so I say feel free to post more. If this section of the forums need something, it's new people with their own takes.

Oct 11, 2004, 07:33 PM	#4
Dom DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 12,940 Rep Power: 0	I have never supported this war, ever. That doesn't mean, however, that I don't support the troops, I do support the troops and respect what they do. I also understand the position they are in in not getting the tactical support they needed on the ground, not getting support from the people at home, and perhaps, even fighting in a war in which they themselves don't support. I really don't think fighting in a war makes you a patriot. I mean, people have families to support, just because they may support it doesn't mean they should have to fight in it. Let's face it, does fighting in a war in another part of the world make you a patriot? No. Nowhere in the defination of "patriot" does it say: "One who gets paid to fight in a war." We know Iraq didn't pose a threat to America. A patriot is someone who fights in a war to protect their country. How is fighting in Iraq protecting America? And again, patriots don't get paid for fighting for their country. The men and woman in Iraq are not necessarily patriots. They're soldiers, doing the job they're paid to do.

Oct 11, 2004, 10:56 PM	#6
digerati Everyones life has worth Join Date: May 2003 Location: My Yellow Bug Posts: 3,779 Rep Power: 0	I almost enlisted, but I found a different calling. I still have the contract in this house somewhere lol I have two friends in the army right now though.

Oct 11, 2004, 11:12 PM	#7
Nacht ein Krieger Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Clemson Uni Posts: 3,127 Rep Power: 0	Somehow you seem to think that supporting and being proud of you country means that you must be in the military? You are very wrong about that.

Oct 11, 2004, 11:50 PM	#8
amduser DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: heartland usa Posts: 45 Rep Power: 0	just about every male member of my family has served in the military. i support this war and president bush. calling everyone a coward and unpatriotic for not serving is truly over the line. in hindsight, i wished i had served right out highschool like my uncle wanted me to. perhaps it would have given me a different perspective. i have several army friends and they feel kerry would pull the rug from underneath them. i have a uncle who was a green beret who cant stand kerry. my dad a air force captain cant stand him either. i am too old to serve and my kids(both girls) are too young. one final thought, do you want to win or just say the heck with it and pull out and see what happens?

Oct 14, 2004, 04:51 AM	Thread Starter #11
Stryder7 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18 Rep Power: 0	**** vince3425 spewed forth with "I am currently in the Marine Corps. I fight for your right to say that trash about YOUR country. " And proving that you either CANT read, or IGNORE the truth, I stated right off the bat, that I was a 18 year veteran. I fought in the 1st Gulf War, and have served in Iraq this time. But you didnt bother to read that part hey. So I have a right to express and opinion, a right I EARNED for myself. "I don't do it because i know you and you're my friend, i do it because i swore my self to defend Corps and Country Under God. " Actually you swore to "protect and defend the constitution of the united states, against enemies both foreign and domestic." Unless they changed the oath since I took it in 1986, or you havent really taken the oath and that is why you dont know what the oath is. It is real easy to CLAIM that you are in the Marines. But this is just one little piece if evidence that you are not in the service at all. "so if you have such a big problem with a Nation of Liars and cowards, get the FCK out. go live in canada you whimp" I dont think I will. I am sure that your position politically, is dependant upon your position geograhically. Just in case your too stupid to understand that, I think that if we were face to face, you wouldnt be running your mouth. I hold to my original post. If the cowards that support this war but refuse to fight it, were held accountable for their cowardice and unpatriotic rhetoric, then things would be different. They are REAL BRAVE and patriotic, as long as it is someone else that is fighting, bleeding and dying. I dont include those that DID NOT support this war, either out of principle or fear. After all, they did not support sending anyone to fight this war. BUT, this war had around 71% support when it started. Let us say that 1/2 of those were so disabled that they could not serve. Let say that another half are married with children and unable to go. I do know that most of the people that I served with had spouses and kids, but if someone wants to use that as a cop out for not going, lets give it to them. Even figuring into the mix, those 3 groups, the pacifist, the disabled, and the married with children, there should still be hundreds of thousands of people to enlist and serve. And I am speaking about those that WANTED to send troops to fight. But we have people over 50 years old, being recalled. We have people whose enlistments are up, that cant get out. We have people that have already served in Iraq, that are there again. Why ? Becasue too many people are making excuses. One final thought. If all of those that say they support this war, and the troops, were to back up their bada$$ talk, maybe some of our boys and women could come home. But too many people that say this war needed to be fought, sit at home and do nothing to defend their country. "Bring Em On (as long as it is someone else doing the fighting)" Yep, a country full of cowards and traitors. Usually, little right winged idiots, that support this president and say that this country is in danger. But when it comes to supporting the troops and defending their nation, nothing from them. Just a bunch of cheap talk. Funny thing about it is. I just figured out something. I know why the right wingers dont want gays in the military. Because every homo-sexual that is in the miltary, fighting for their country right now, is a BETTER AMERICAN, than all of these cowards and traitors back here. I include vince in that statement, because I dont think you are in the marines. I think that you are one of the people I talked about. Not to mention that the women that are serving, are showing up all of these "He Man" macho types. As Arnold would say, those of you that will send someone else to fight for you, are a bunch of "Girly Men" Last edited by Stryder7; Oct 14, 2004 at 05:02 AM.*

Oct 14, 2004, 05:42 AM	#12
vince3425 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Nebraska Posts: 150 Rep Power: 0	You have every right under the constitution to say what you please when you please. i will fight to the death for you to do that. But don't ever FUCKING challenge me on being in the Corps. I am glad you served, and I thank you. you obviously don't know about the Marine Corps. God Country and Corps, that is my duty, if you want my general orders i'll be glad to "spew" them forth to you. now if you are done trying to insult me on where i was born and raised and my politics, i'll get back to what i was saying. i don't give a shit what you think. You may have served, or you may not have, i don't care. But i will reiterate what i said before, DO NOT under any circumstances, challenge me on being a United States Marine. Unless you'd like to meet and we can "discuss" it further... __________________ When it Absolutely, Positivly has to be destroyed over night. USMC LCpl Scott

Oct 14, 2004, 05:52 AM	#13
GutterPunk I = Greatest Dood Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 5,949 Rep Power: 71	I can vouge for Vince being in the Corps calling a Marine, a fellow serviceman a coward is very insulting especially judging him if he is in them or not. __________________ Rock On \m/ Thank you Mousey for the Sig! --------------- Intel Core2Duo E6660 (3.4GHZ) ~ Tuniq Tower 120 ~ Enermax Galaxy 1000W ~ Corsair Dominator @ 1090MHZ 5-5-5-15 (OCZ XTC Modded Cooler)~ EVGA 8800GTX W/ HR-03 Plus 120MM ~ Asus DVD-RW LiteScribe ~ LG DVD-RW ~ Corsair Voyager 2GB ReadyBoost Drive ~ Vantec Nexus Fan Controller ~ ThermalTake Armor 25CM fan ~ Personal Finance Blog: Dent Your Debt

Oct 14, 2004, 06:18 AM	#14
Dom DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 12,940 Rep Power: 0	Moved to the Flame Warzone section.

Oct 14, 2004, 06:23 AM	#16
GutterPunk I = Greatest Dood Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 5,949 Rep Power: 71	Hey fucker, come on you narrow minded bastard. You think everyone who supports troops should join the military. That leaves no people to fill the lack of jobs, more people for the gov't to pay, and only the disabled people, families with children, whoever the fuck else drawing money from the government for welfare, disablity, social security. Come on mane dont look at everyone as being a coward or a turncoat just because they have other things to pursue in their lives. Damn you have about the absolute worst argument in the fucking world. Look past your ignorance and see the differences it would make. Sorry dude no go EDIT: The other day in class, in a presentation given by a military member he said on average it costs about $3,000,000 to train about 10-15 people (this being reservists) with every1 who supports the fucking military joined think of the financial burden lol __________________ Rock On \m/ Thank you Mousey for the Sig! --------------- Intel Core2Duo E6660 (3.4GHZ) ~ Tuniq Tower 120 ~ Enermax Galaxy 1000W ~ Corsair Dominator @ 1090MHZ 5-5-5-15 (OCZ XTC Modded Cooler)~ EVGA 8800GTX W/ HR-03 Plus 120MM ~ Asus DVD-RW LiteScribe ~ LG DVD-RW ~ Corsair Voyager 2GB ReadyBoost Drive ~ Vantec Nexus Fan Controller ~ ThermalTake Armor 25CM fan ~ Personal Finance Blog: Dent Your Debt Last edited by GutterPunk; Oct 14, 2004 at 06:32 AM.

Oct 14, 2004, 06:37 AM	Thread Starter #18
Stryder7 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18 Rep Power: 0	To vince3425, What a whining crying punk you are. You ignored that I served, and suggested I go to Canada. You attacked my right to say what I thought about those that "REFUSE" to serve, and then you have the nerve to say that you will fight for my rights. I dont need you to fight my fights. You chose to ignore my service, to justify your political point. And when I challenged you on it, you whine and cry, that you are defending my rights. To that I say F* you, your momma, and your entire family. (Insult absolutely intended). Then when I reply to your BS attack, you whine and cry. You say that you thank me for my service and then you continue with your VERBAL assault. Like I said, your position, depends on your position. General orders ? What, did you find them posted somewhere on the internet, kiddie? Is that what you think is proof that you are in the marines, by posting your general orders? And my repsonse to you punking yourself was intended as a challenge. I would be glad to "Discuss" this face to face anytime, anywhere, with EXTREME PREJUDICE. PS, if you are an example of what the Marine Corps is producing now adays, this country is in REAL danger. Hoo "Friggin" Rah. GutterPunk You may have revealed more than you wanted to. First you say, "I can vouge for Vince being in the Corps" The word is "vouch" anyway. Then you say " if he is in them or not." Well what is it ? He is in them, or not ?

Oct 14, 2004, 06:40 AM	#19
GutterPunk I = Greatest Dood Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 5,949 Rep Power: 71	Hey fuckhead you took it outta context calling a Marine, a fellow serviceman a coward is very insulting especially judging him if he is in them or not. That was a retarded fucking question, as i said he was in the marines... screw the spelling as i dont fucking care, and I dont care that you used a dictionary to look it up. Go eat a dick, I think they'd like you better in France __________________ Rock On \m/ Thank you Mousey for the Sig! --------------- Intel Core2Duo E6660 (3.4GHZ) ~ Tuniq Tower 120 ~ Enermax Galaxy 1000W ~ Corsair Dominator @ 1090MHZ 5-5-5-15 (OCZ XTC Modded Cooler)~ EVGA 8800GTX W/ HR-03 Plus 120MM ~ Asus DVD-RW LiteScribe ~ LG DVD-RW ~ Corsair Voyager 2GB ReadyBoost Drive ~ Vantec Nexus Fan Controller ~ ThermalTake Armor 25CM fan ~ Personal Finance Blog: Dent Your Debt

Oct 14, 2004, 06:47 AM	Thread Starter #20
Stryder7 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18 Rep Power: 0	Here is a little excerpt from a PM to me from vince. "but i don't go around doubting some ones service. " You did exactly that, so I guess that makes you a confirmed liar. And as far as your "threat" contained here, "you ever had a pissed off Marine hunting you? " You dont have to hunt, bitch. Just tell me where you are. I am on leave and know how to get a flight to San Diego on MAC. BTW, dont worry about my rank when you see me, I will strip my sleeves.

Oct 14, 2004, 06:49 AM	Thread Starter #21
Stryder7 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18 Rep Power: 0	And I guess that you dont really support the troops. And like I said earlier, I guess that the homos in the miltary are more of a man and an American than you are. You or your a$$hole buddy vince.

Oct 14, 2004, 06:53 AM	#22
GutterPunk I = Greatest Dood Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 5,949 Rep Power: 71	What you think homos join the military to be tough... shit why would a fag pass up the chance to shower w/ 50 other guys.... (is that why you joined?) Saying that compared to my chance to join a group to shower w/ 50 different women ____________ "but i don't go around doubting some ones service. " You did exactly that, so I guess that makes you a confirmed liar. Uhhh how did that make him a liar, didnt he thank you for your service fucktard? __________________ Rock On \m/ Thank you Mousey for the Sig! --------------- Intel Core2Duo E6660 (3.4GHZ) ~ Tuniq Tower 120 ~ Enermax Galaxy 1000W ~ Corsair Dominator @ 1090MHZ 5-5-5-15 (OCZ XTC Modded Cooler)~ EVGA 8800GTX W/ HR-03 Plus 120MM ~ Asus DVD-RW LiteScribe ~ LG DVD-RW ~ Corsair Voyager 2GB ReadyBoost Drive ~ Vantec Nexus Fan Controller ~ ThermalTake Armor 25CM fan ~ Personal Finance Blog: Dent Your Debt

Oct 14, 2004, 06:56 AM	Thread Starter #23
Stryder7 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18 Rep Power: 0	I am not gay, but I do know that there are gays in the military, that are serving in a combat zone, when you wont. Coward ! Here you are such a HE man, and you are being shown up by women and homos. What a punk you are, but I bet you come from a long line of punks huh? Your daddy is a right winged punk aint he?

Oct 14, 2004, 06:59 AM	Thread Starter #24
Stryder7 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18 Rep Power: 0	Say Gutten Punk, (definition of punk, someone that likes it in the ass) What was your pathetic reason why you wont fight this war ? You support this war, but you wont fight it? What a chickenshit you are ! And why is it that you and vince call yourselves punks ? Maybe you are doing each other ? It sure looks that way.

Oct 14, 2004, 07:00 AM	#25
GutterPunk I = Greatest Dood Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 5,949 Rep Power: 71	WTF dont bring my family in this you stupid fuckhead. How am I being shown up by women and homos. Just because I have another plan for myself in life? I do not find myself in the military. I pay taxes, taxes go towards the gov't the gov't pays he military. Now if we all skipped our taxes and didnt pay shit, You'd never see a paycheck. So fuck off man your plan is shit and you know it, and all you have to say is that i am a coward. __________________ Rock On \m/ Thank you Mousey for the Sig! --------------- Intel Core2Duo E6660 (3.4GHZ) ~ Tuniq Tower 120 ~ Enermax Galaxy 1000W ~ Corsair Dominator @ 1090MHZ 5-5-5-15 (OCZ XTC Modded Cooler)~ EVGA 8800GTX W/ HR-03 Plus 120MM ~ Asus DVD-RW LiteScribe ~ LG DVD-RW ~ Corsair Voyager 2GB ReadyBoost Drive ~ Vantec Nexus Fan Controller ~ ThermalTake Armor 25CM fan ~ Personal Finance Blog: Dent Your Debt

Oct 14, 2004, 07:01 AM	#26
vince3425 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Nebraska Posts: 150 Rep Power: 0	You have to go insult my family. Great. I just don't understand why you had to bring in my mother. Normally being the hot headed Marine, which you don't believe i am, i would have told you that i was going to kill you your family and your dog, maybe even tim, your cocksucking secretary. but since i have a level head about me,i won't sink to your level. if i could go to iraq, i would be there in a second. Now if you are done insulting my family, i'll let you and your family rest easy tonight knowing that i'm not out to hurt you. __________________ When it Absolutely, Positivly has to be destroyed over night. USMC LCpl Scott

Oct 14, 2004, 07:03 AM	Thread Starter #27
Stryder7 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18 Rep Power: 0	Again, willing to send others to fight a war you say must be fought, You would probably call the cops and wait for them, if your momma or little sister was being raped . Why should you fight, when there are others that are out there to fight for you?

Oct 14, 2004, 07:07 AM	Thread Starter #28
Stryder7 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18 Rep Power: 0	*** vince3425 You are the one that started making threats, and KNOWING what a panty wasted coward you are, I figured that talking about your family might bring you out of cover to face me. But you have proven that you are one of the chickenshit cowards I originally posted about. You are the typical right winged republican coward I spoke of. What will entice you to fight for anything? Or will you fight for anything? I doubt it. I suggest that if you arent willing to fight, then dont send others to do it.

Oct 14, 2004, 07:12 AM	Thread Starter #30
Stryder7 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18 Rep Power: 0	You talk big shit Gutter Trash, just like this Iraqi war. But like I said, when it comes down to "Standing Up" for what you say you believe in, your way short on guts. See, I know why you dont serve. You are disabled. A pigmentation disorder. That yellow streak running down your back.