Token Ring Eats ethercrap

alewisa · May 24, 2002, 12:56 PM

C'mon then, who's up for a fight? Token Ring is superior to ethernet.

Any takers???

reno · May 24, 2002, 07:07 PM

*snores*

UberLord · May 24, 2002, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alewisa
C'mon then, who's up for a fight? Token Ring is superior to ethernet.

Any takers???

Is token ring still used by anyone? I thought that died out with cheapnet/BNC....

applicator · May 25, 2002, 08:56 AM

I thought the BBC with my c64 ruled!

Token Ring.......WHAT!!

UberLord · May 25, 2002, 02:40 PM

I'm sure that you can ring plenty of Tolken Web Rings on the Internet

JavaFox · May 25, 2002, 07:09 PM

Oooooh, it is ON alewisa! It's going to be a gloves-off, no holds barred, punch-yo-momma-in-the-eye, down and dirty, STREET FIGHT!

Oh, wait, nobody cares.

alewisa · May 25, 2002, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JavaFox
Oooooh, it is ON alewisa! It's going to be a gloves-off, no holds barred, punch-yo-momma-in-the-eye, down and dirty, STREET FIGHT!

Oh, wait, nobody cares.

Damm, you had me all excited there for a mo.

alewisa · May 25, 2002, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by applicator
I thought the BBC with my c64 ruled!

Token Ring.......WHAT!!

erm, it's a network technology. So called because the network is based on passing a toekn around a ring (the network uses a ring topology). Workstations must be in posession of the token before they can transnit data, hence it is determinalistic in nature, can stand high loading, and dsoesn't suffer from the drawbacks inherent in CSMA/CD ethernet.

UberLord · May 26, 2002, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JavaFox
Oooooh, it is ON alewisa! It's going to be a gloves-off, no holds barred, punch-yo-momma-in-the-eye, down and dirty, STREET FIGHT!

Does this mean we get to kick alewisa in the nuts?

Quote:

Oh, wait, nobody cares.

I think alewisa might

alewisa · May 26, 2002, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UberLord
Does this mean we get to kick alewisa in the nuts?

'Come an have ago if you think yer hard enuf'

applicator · May 27, 2002, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alewisa
erm, it's a network technology. So called because the network is based on passing a toekn around a ring (the network uses a ring topology). Workstations must be in posession of the token before they can transnit data, hence it is determinalistic in nature, can stand high loading, and dsoesn't suffer from the drawbacks inherent in CSMA/CD ethernet.

Duhh!

Ryoko · May 28, 2002, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alewisa
erm, it's a network technology. So called because the network is based on passing a toekn around a ring (the network uses a ring topology). Workstations must be in posession of the token before they can transnit data, hence it is determinalistic in nature, can stand high loading, and dsoesn't suffer from the drawbacks inherent in CSMA/CD ethernet.

1) ethernet is faster.
2) ever heard of a bridge?
3) ever heard of a router?
4) under heavy load, all topologies come to a crawl, including token ring, but ethernet can be bridged. poor token...
5) FAR more support and faster medium for ethernet than token ring.
6) ethernet is less expensive.

more?

alewisa · May 28, 2002, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryoko
1) ethernet is faster.
2) ever heard of a bridge?
3) ever heard of a router?
4) under heavy load, all topologies come to a crawl, including token ring, but ethernet can be bridged. poor token...
5) FAR more support and faster medium for ethernet than token ring.
6) ethernet is less expensive.

more?

1. 16m/bit is "faster" than 10m/bit ethernet. 100m/bit Token Ring is "faster" than 100m/bit ethernet - under loading

2. and 3. yes, so what? What has that got to do with anything unles you are implying segmentation. Doesn't matter - bridges operate at Layer 2 and will transmit *all* traffic anyway at the MAC layer. Bridging does not solve the collision problem that ethernet has. Both technologies can be bridged (and TR has source routing for route discovery). Routing is immaterial, to both technologies, as routers operate at Layer 3, the network layer (IP, IPX, etc), which is transparrent to the datalink layer.

4. Strictly speaking, the first part of point 4 is true. However, ethernet peask at 30-40% bandwidth utilisation. Token Ring otoh only starts to degrade at 80+% (lower in a poorly implemented network, e.g. poor cabling, but same caveat applies to ethernet is true). As for the second part.... erm, what are you getting at? Token Ring can be bridged, indeed until TR switching came about, was the primary way of extending the ring to a) increase coverag b) exceed max no of stations (260 IBM, 255 IEEE).

5. Comparing apples to apples, 16mb TR has greater bandwidth and network availability than 10m/b ethernet. 100m/b HSTR has greater availability than 100m/b ethernet. VHSTR ditto to gigabyte ethernet. As for support, I'll concede the point, ditto cost. But hey, I'm talking from a superior technology viewpoint

more? please! So far your argument is, well, demolished.

Ryoko · May 28, 2002, 08:48 PM

sorry, confused bridge with switch. anyway, ping times on token ring are my main complaint. the larger the network, the larger the ping, and even though this holds true with ethernet, it is far worse on a token ring. i have 2 clients that have an equal # of computers on an equal load. 1 has token ring, the other has ethernet. under normal load (~50%), i would recieve pings sub 15 on the ethernet, whereas the token ring was spiking at 200. try playing lan games on that.

Ryoko · May 28, 2002, 08:50 PM

furthermore, my universal point holds true. if token ring was such a good network topology, why isn't it the most widely used topology worldwide?

alewisa · May 28, 2002, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryoko
sorry, confused bridge with switch. anyway, ping times on token ring are my main complaint. the larger the network, the larger the ping, and even though this holds true with ethernet, it is far worse on a token ring. i have 2 clients that have an equal # of computers on an equal load. 1 has token ring, the other has ethernet. under normal load (~50%), i would recieve pings sub 15 on the ethernet, whereas the token ring was spiking at 200. try playing lan games on that.

(damm, posted a reply and the proxy couldnt obtain the data!)

Ok, Token Ring has swithes too, and has done since 1996.

What's more, TR does not suffer from response times in the way you describe above. Indeed, TR was the technology of choice for missoin critical applications that need guaranteed network availability, accesibility and responsiveness.

Ok, I have managed the largest TR network in the UK, (bridged, using WAN links), and never seen the problem above. (an we played network gams on it, too!). First point of call is to check the data buffers on the TR stations. Then conduct detailed MAC layer analysis to check proper installation and for any ring error conditions.

(btw, a switch is only a glorified bridge, anyway)

alewisa · May 28, 2002, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryoko
furthermore, my universal point holds true. if token ring was such a good network topology, why isn't it the most widely used topology worldwide?

Why did VHS win out over the superior BETAMAX?

Probably due to poor marketing by IBM (wanted expensive royalties), and ethernet was cheaper. But, as I aid, I'm arguing from a technology view point.

ATM was the killer WAN technology, yet has yet to win universal acceptance. Hell, you could ATM to the desktop, 'cept it was expensive (new technology), and the focus was on Y2K at the time, not multimedia rich applications. Ok, so the market went 100mb ethernet and then bolted QoS on top (RSVP, which slaughtered switch performance, for example, but seemed to work...)

For those who needed rock solid performance and reliability, they went TR. The bargain basement small companies went cheaper net (and I have seen some abortionate installs!). In between, well, you had both,, but with a predominance for cost effective ethernet

Having just read the above, I meant to say ATM was the killer network technology in the late 90's, but Y2K had the focus. The next para is a jump back to the original question-answer.

reno · May 29, 2002, 07:07 PM

zzzz.....token ring=dumb....zzzz...

May 24, 2002, 12:56 PM	#1
alewisa DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kendal, UK Posts: 260 Rep Power: 0	Token Ring Eats ethercrap C'mon then, who's up for a fight? Token Ring is superior to ethernet. Any takers??? __________________ TRS-80, dual 5.25", 32K C-64 o/c to 2Mhz, 1541 with PhantomDOS Amiga 4000/040@66Mhz, C64-3D, 64mb, 4.3gb SCSI Netware 4.11 And too many damn PC's to care!

May 24, 2002, 07:07 PM	#2
reno Painlord of Ichor Join Date: May 2002 Location: bloinkin! Posts: 1,610 Rep Power: 0	zzzzzzz... snores

May 25, 2002, 02:40 PM	#5
UberLord A Legend in Underwear Join Date: May 2002 Location: Unknown Posts: 5,255 Rep Power: 70	I'm sure that you can ring plenty of Tolken Web Rings on the Internet __________________ Gentoo Linux - Developer (baselayout) Read my blog "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Roberts

May 25, 2002, 07:09 PM	#6
JavaFox E Pluribus Unum Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,203 Rep Power: 0	IT IS ON! Oooooh, it is ON alewisa! It's going to be a gloves-off, no holds barred, punch-yo-momma-in-the-eye, down and dirty, STREET FIGHT! Oh, wait, nobody cares.

May 29, 2002, 07:07 PM	#18
reno Painlord of Ichor Join Date: May 2002 Location: bloinkin! Posts: 1,610 Rep Power: 0	again... zzzz.....token ring=dumb....zzzz...

May 25, 2002, 08:56 AM	#4
applicator DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: calgary Posts: 42 Rep Power: 0	I thought the BBC with my c64 ruled! Token Ring.......WHAT!!

May 28, 2002, 08:48 PM	#14
Ryoko American Soldier Join Date: May 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA Posts: 1,725 Rep Power: 0	sorry, confused bridge with switch. anyway, ping times on token ring are my main complaint. the larger the network, the larger the ping, and even though this holds true with ethernet, it is far worse on a token ring. i have 2 clients that have an equal # of computers on an equal load. 1 has token ring, the other has ethernet. under normal load (~50%), i would recieve pings sub 15 on the ethernet, whereas the token ring was spiking at 200. try playing lan games on that.

May 28, 2002, 08:50 PM	#15
Ryoko American Soldier Join Date: May 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA Posts: 1,725 Rep Power: 0	furthermore, my universal point holds true. if token ring was such a good network topology, why isn't it the most widely used topology worldwide?