DudeBoyz

Anyone who is too young or too uninformed to remember what Micorosft has done in this industry is doing the community a great disservice.

You remember how Microsoft got the original contract to make DOS and BASIC? Where DoubleSpace / DriveSpace came from? What they did with DR DOS? How NT came about from the work done on OS/2? WFWG from tech gleened from Lantastic? How Windows came about after breaking a promise to Steve Jobs? How they gained their monopoly via exclusive bundling deals?

Read up and learn.

Microsoft corporate policies show them to be ruthlessly evil bastards who need to be kicked in the pants and taken down about 20 notches.

Sandok

All the top companies are ruthless and agressive to get where they are! This is nothing unique to Microsoft and who cares, as long as the consumer gets what he wants!

I mean, Nestlé is where it is thanks to the same kind of attitude, as are Phillip Moris, UBS, etc. These companies might not always play "ethically" correctly but that's the world of business...

DudeBoyz

Microsoft is just plain old evil.

I wish they would have been broken up so that there was one company that ONLY did the Operating System. Then that could be regulated separately.

I do wish Linux would make more of an inroad. OpenSuse 10.2 is pretty nice.

I'm bailing on as many things Microsoft as I can, reasonably.

I'm kinda stuck using the OS, but moving to Open Office is a nice step.

Anyway, some folks dig 'em, some folks don't. I'm one who don't. But I'll stop beating a dead horse.

What I do know is that Soul Calibur on my Dreamcast is still better than SC II on any other platform.

Da_Jewish_Fonzy

BEST POST EVER.

Geminiwave

MS isnt evil. they're just very profitable. any time a company profits a lot they're "evil"

no employees in MS are sitting around going "how can we screw someone over today!" they're trying to figure out how to make a better product, how to make people happier, and still make their stock holders happy and guess what? They do a damned good job of it. Say what you will but the reason windows is so popular is because for MOST people it works QUITE well. The problems people primarily have with MS are not problems with windows but problems with COMPUTERS. My mac crashes just as often (if not more...) than my PC! And its NEW! And most macs do this. I love hearing people go "My mac never crashes" and WATCHING it crash while they use it. its a fantasy that doesn't really exist.

MS has been doing great things lately developing new products and doing quite well. They are not the only show in town. they are not a monopoly. they are just the biggest.

Dislike them because they don't fit your taste...don't buy them because you like to go away from the mainstream. Its all fair...its all good. But calling them evil? Thats too far.

And if you're concerned with business practices, don't even get me started on Apple. At least MS donates absurd quantities of cash around. When is the last time apple did anything for Charity? I'll tell you. Its called Product Red. And enviornmental standards? Thats a laughable subject. Now Apple also is an innovator. They drive the industry forward in a very good very fundamental way and i love that apple is around...but they are not a savior. They are not holy. They do not deserve the worship they get. Just as Microsoft does not deserve the condemnation it receives especially when the majority of nay-sayers purchase the very product they damn with the excuse that they have no other choice. Theres other shows in town...they just aren't quite as good.

I guess being the best isn't always a good thing.

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DudeBoyz

You seem to lack a knowledge of the History of Microsoft.

There are very good reasons why they are so reviled.

Geminiwave

I've been around long enough to remember.

the thing is though that most of the stuff they do isn't all that terrible. At least relatively.

and on that rationale, why aren't you damning Sony?

Because hating microsoft is the cool popular trendy thing to do. I don't really like following such trends.

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DudeBoyz

I've been hating Microsoft for well over 20 years.

They truly are evil.

Just look at 3 instances:

Stacker
Corel Linux
Novell

Heck, throw in their funding of SCO even, if you need something else to chew on.

Satan personified...

Necrosis

Apple is just as evil as M$.

DudeBoyz you need a different hobby than getting your panties in a bunch over M$.

DudeBoyz

I totally don't agree with that.

Microsoft has continually abused their Monopoly position. Apple has no such standing in the industry.

OS X is only bundled on Apple machines. They don't try to force it to be exclusively bundled with Dell, Gateway, HP or other such entities.

They are in a minority - they don't have the power to even qualify for such consideration.

What, praytell, has Apple done that is evil? Come up with innovative products? Convince record companies to sell singles for 99 cents? Convince EMI to give up DRM on their downloads? Build an OS on an Open Source BSD foundation? Introduce True Type fonts and even license them to Microsoft for inclusion in their OS so as to create an alternative to the Adobe font monopoly?

Yeah, that's all evil.

Seriously, what have they done to garner such a claim from you?

Necrosis

1. You don't have to purchase any PC w/ Windows from any of those companies.

2. Apple will never have a majority industry standing because they.

A. Over charge for the same hardware
B. You can do pretty much the same thing w/ Linux.
C. Apple PC are only useful for select media creation.
D. You have to pay for everything w/ Apple. Try not buying a wireless networking card from them. You have to purchase a third party driver. How stupid is that?

3. What innovative products? The ipod, please there are better products out there. Yes, I do have one myself, but have own/owned just about every single brand there is. Oh yeah I love it how they try to shove Itunes down your throat, worse than Windows Media Player.

4. How about their never upgrade just buy new Apple products so we can fill up landfills? I don't see too many M$ doing that or using what is basically slave labor to build their products.

5. Steve Jobs

Sandok

You are such a fanboy it's amazing.

Anyways, to finally get back on topic, I do think though that many people are being too harsh with the PS3. It's a good system and to be honest, if I could buy one to put next to my Xbox, I'd do it without hesitating even a second.

Necrosis

I don't know man I hate Sony more than DudeBoyz hates M$.

I might consider it myself if the BR drive was optional.

DudeBoyz

Slave labor? PUHHLEEEZEEE

As for EVIL - hey, you don't have to buy ANY apple products.

You can buy music on CD's and avoid the whole "itunes" thing. There are plenty of other MP3 players out there you can buy and play your music on.

You're just not being rational. There is simply no comparison.

From a business practice standpoint:

Microsoft = Ultimate Evil
Intel = moderately bad guy
Rambus = saddam hussein

Seriously - just come up with some well thought out examples of how Apple is abusing its monopoly power and we can have a discussion.

Oh - wait - it ISN'T a monopoly so it can't force us to do anything...

DudeBoyz

What has Sony done that is bad? I'm not aware of what they may have done - I guess I have been paying more attention to the PC side of things, since that is where I spend most of my time.

I remember the Sega Genesis and the Nintendo units. They ruled the roost. Sony came out with the original Playstation and I still didn't understand the hype really. It wasn't until I saw SSX on the Playstation 2 at the store that I was impressed by that console. The fact that it played almost all of the original Playstation games seemed a smart move too, plus they made it a DVD player. All those combined was an appealing package at the time.

Still, I bought the Sega Dreamcast well before the PS2. Too bad MS screwed Sega over too and took what they learned from that partnership to help forge ahead on their own Xbox console.

On the Playstation 3, I really think the price is far, far too high, and the cost per game is unjustifiable. I hope it fails miserably.

Sandok

I don't like Sony's PR one bit, especially not for the PS3 but I do have a PS2 and over 50 games for it... I did love that black console And the thing is, I wanna continue playing the franchises I have always liked (Gran Turismo, MGS, Final Fantasy, etc.).

But I'll be frank, I'd only consider it if the price drops by quite a bit or I win one for free

What has Sony done? Have you even seen their PR and all the arrogance they've been spewing out? I mean, they've treated Europeans consumers really badly (crippled PS3, horrible outrageous prices (150-200$ more than USA) and etc). Their reputation is sorta hurting, especially for the PS3 launch.

And you didn't "understand" the hype from Sega Genisis to PSOne? Oh.. My... Anyways, just for your info, MS didn't screw Sega in any way so I fail to see how your Satanic devil falls into this debate (again). The DC just had poor third party games, no DVD drive when it was all important and unfortunately, it went out of production when Sega could have still fought the war (but given they had finincal trouble... Ouch...)

Hoping the PS3 will fail is like hoping MS will loose to Apple... Never gonna happen (thankfully)

DudeBoyz

Microsoft did the software for the DC. They partnered with Sega, gathered all the knowledge they could, cut off their support, took away some of their key people and headed up the Xbox effort.

Arrogance is annoying, but I don't see that as evil.

If Sony tried to and succeeded in stopping all the retail stores from carrying anything from Nintendo or Microsoft, that would be hardcore badness. If they went out and bought up just about every developer and franchise they could and refused to let anyone develop a game for a system other than the PS3, that would be hardcore badness too.

If all Microsoft did was blow smoke and have arrogant ads, that would be no big deal. But funding the SCO lawsuit? Trying to purchase patent access from Novell so they can sue Linux distro makers? Cozying up to Stack, learning all they could, stab 'em in the back and use what you learned to make DoubleSpace and put the screws to Stack, Paying off Corel to drop their Linux OS and to stop all development of their suite for Linux - that kinda stuff - that is very evil indeed. They don't play fair.

But I guess that's enough of beating the dead horse. Doesn't seem that anyone is going to be changing their opinion any time soon, so there's no use discussing it any further.

Necrosis

You don't have to buy any Microsoft products either. There is free or low cost alternatives for everything Microsoft offers. How about Apple opening up their DRM protection to let other users who like their Itunes store w/ different players purchase music. I'm not being irrational since you're omitting the fact Apple has a monopoly on digital music & they are abusing it.

My issue with Sony is more of an audiophile thing. It's that same elitist attitude that whatever they make is the best. Honestly that is partially my big gripe w/ Apple too. Apple lovers are known to be the most fanatic people on the planet.

DudeBoyz

Apple does NOT have a monopoly on digital music. Where the hell do you get that idea from? You can buy stuff from any number of places - 88 cents per track at Walmart using WMA copy protected stuff. Napter? Emusic?

Not to mention ANYBODY can buy an audio CD or Cassette and save it in their own digital format to plan on whatever player they wish.

You don't like elitist attitudes? Fine - that I can agree on. But trying to put Apple or Sony in the same category as Microsoft is just silly.

If you're not even willing to admit the wrongs Microsoft has done and still does on a daily basis, it's not even worth discussing with you. How people can be so blind is beyond me.

Sandok

Dude, we get it. If you could, you'd assassiante MS the evil monopoly power, sleep with Apple the missunderstood and rule the world with linux open software.

Please keep this thread on topic and stop turning everything into "But MS is worse than xxx" or "But MS did this and xxx didn't" and etc... Don't worry, everyone on DH now knows you hate Microsoft.

Necrosis

Really? Itunes is the Number 1 digital music store.

80% of MP3 players are Ipods?

Key point is I'm NOT denying anything Microsoft has done. I'm just saying each company has their own evil side. It's just some are larger than others. It's your opinion that placing Sony or Apple in the same league w/ them is incorrect. However, just look at the lies each company has spewed out to unknowing customers. The Apple ads would have you think it's still 1985, and Microsoft is the only other choice. I won't even bother with the Sony PR machine. I guess besides spending my time worrying so much about M$ I'm playing around on my Apple, and answering your posts on my laptop w/ Open Suse.

BlueMak

Apple is like a wannabe Microsoft, only they can't and they just bitch about it.
It's not like they are less evil (though I hate the term evil), only like they are mini evil.

As for a PS3, in 3-4 years if Blue Ray has won the "war" and is about 1/3 of it's price, I might get one.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Geminiwave

hey guys...dudeboys is just trolling. its way off topic at this point. We could be spewing example after example as to why sony is evil and apple is evil and MS is saintly (or whatever you want...) and believe me i have lots of beef against sony so i got loads...but he has his idea of the world and i'll let him have it. If he wants to hate the very products he purchases and uses, its fine.

lets keep on topic for the ps3.

You know if Sony worked more on its synergy I'd like it better...I love how the 360 streams from my computers and connects with my ipod or zune (either one mind you not just an MS product) and can use the music off of them...stuff like that. Now if Sony got their act together in that regard it'd be cool. I'd love for my Sony Ericsson phone to tell me when theres a particular match up that i might be interested in...or if someone sends me a message or what have you. I don't know how the sony online system works so im thinking of it as if it were like Xbox Live service. That'd just be disgustingly handy. Or being able to purchase movies\music\anything via my phone or computer at work and have it download at home (Audio Galaxy anyone?)

it'd rock

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DudeBoyz

I'm not trolling. That's just a bunch of crap.

I did, however, lead the thread off topic, and for that, I'm sorry.

Zardon

Actually in theory that sounds wonderful, if in fact you had "discussed" anything in the first place. All i have seen is a lot of ranting, shouting and name calling back and forth from you and a few other members.

You will find, just as in real life, that if you walk up to someone, shout in their face and say they are an asshole that you will most certainly not alter their viewpoint or change their opinion but probably end up with their fist in your mouth. Hardly productive on any level.

Im closing this thread, shame a humourous thread detailing a silly website ended up like this......

Of course if someone wants to start another thread detailing aspects of this thread then please feel free to do so but this one is done.